DTWID: Project is done, check the release thread

[General Rainbow Bacon]

Sheol's Spiraling Descent Final Version:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/yww3hpair4vditf/Sheol%27s%20Spiraling%20Descent.wad

I added some secrets and moved some stuff and added more armor and rad suits.

Hope you all enjoy it. Now on to making an e3m8 level.

[Hellbent]

ellmo said:

If I was to map for the same project with John, I'd shit Startan. Out of joy that is.
Also it would be great to see if John's style has changed during those 17 years :D

Yeah, it would be very interesting to see a comparison of then and now. Plus, the man is the king of secret areas, one of my favorite things about Doom. The slime secrets in episode 1 were the best.

DoomHero85 said:

Sheol's Spiraling Descent Final Version:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/yww3hpair4vditf/Sheol%27s%20Spiraling%20Descent.wad

I added some secrets and moved some stuff and added more armor and rad suits.

Hope you all enjoy it. Now on to making an e3m8 level.

Damn, the man is a machine!

EDIT: DL link broken.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

it's fixed, i broke it on purpose, noticed a problem. Should be back now. I added some secret light amp visors for you Hellbent :P

[ellmo]

update on E3M1-ish
Names: "A flesh start" / "Abyssal Stronghold"

[Hellbent]

The link is still broken DoomHero.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

http://www.mediafire.com/file/u8t9x7mz9jxjyay/Sheol%27s%20Spiraling%20Descent.wad

This one should work.

Also, My e3m8: Throne of Distruction

http://www.mediafire.com/file/6sww9cusjl2gusg/Throne%20of%20Distruction.wad

[hervoheebo]

Since there were no outstanding requests for architectural renovations I populated the map with monsters (no difficulty settings yet): http://www.mediafire.com/?gk8dvg7mrguvzk6

Question about difficulty.. it's supposed to be somewhere along the original Doom? Nothing too crazy. I think that this version is a bit easy in fact. Also is each map supposed to be independent or part of a sequence? Regarding monster types, quantities and advanced weapons' availability for example.

And is pistol start friendliness a must/no-no?

[Hellbent]

Spider area rocks. The chasms in the floor are very creative. Blur sphere + tons of monsters = CHEAP! More than this, though.. the spider is much easier to defeat than the 20 barons that came before it. I'll take the spider with a blur sphere and the help of other monsters to defeat the spidey any day over hoard of barons.

If you put a blur sphere on this map, you might consider having it in a secret area--and damn dangerous to get.

In fact, that could be an good way to make the map more interesting. You can either face off the spider without the blur sphere which would make fighting her harder--or you can brave the hidden passageway that leads up to the blur sphere with all sorts of dangers on the way, such as lost souls shooting out of dark walls, deep perilous pits filled with lava, twisting, narrow, precarious crumbling walkway, and hoards of specters on the landings. "If I could only get that blur sphere..."

The spectacle of the throne is pretty sweet. Unfortunately we have a similar throne in Map32? of TNT if memory serves. Also, it goes counter to the abstract theory of DooM mapping. Tower of Babel wasn't really a tower... Unholy Cathedral had no pews.... I thought the name "throne of destruction" was pretty good, but I wasn't expecting a literal throne. I was expecting a level with high walls and a fell regalness. Maybe some sort of spire or great pillars surrounding the spider or something that had the sense of a throne of destruction, without any literal representation.

What is the idea or concept behind the broken spider room vs. the non-broken room you start in?

Lot of criticisms, I know. Don't get the wrong idea; I think the level is very good.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

Personally, I think we should make the maps harder than the original maps. Not a lot harder, but enough so that veteran players aren't bored.

@Hellbent: I can definitely correct these things and that is an awesome idea for the blur sphere, consider it done. I'll remove the throne if you like too.

[Hellbent]

hervoheebo said:

Since there were no outstanding requests for architectural renovations I populated the map with monsters (no difficulty settings yet): http://www.mediafire.com/?gk8dvg7mrguvzk6

Question about difficulty.. it's supposed to be somewhere along the original Doom? Nothing too crazy. I think that this version is a bit easy in fact. Also is each map supposed to be independent or part of a sequence? Regarding monster types, quantities and advanced weapons' availability for example.

And is pistol start friendliness a must/no-no?

I think the originals had some pistol start friendliness. The levels always gave you what you needed to complete it. Any weapon/power up can be found in episode 3 from level 3 onwards.

[Hellbent]

DoomHero85 said:

Personally, I think we should make the maps harder than the original maps. Not a lot harder, but enough so that veteran players aren't bored.

@Hellbent: I can definitely correct these things and that is an awesome idea for the blur sphere, consider it done. I'll remove the throne if you like too.

You can leave the throne for now, unless you get an inspiration for what could go in its place. I'd like to hear others' thoughts on your level as well.

Glad you liked the idea DoomHero: just remember to keep the sidedef/vertex number to 1993 levels.

EDIT: I don't think it feels quite right to just plop those three weapons at the very start of your map like that. St. Alfonso pointed out:

Having the opening corridor swamped with varying weapon and ammo pickups detracts from that id-like feel I think, as I don't recall it ever being used to this extent (correct me if I'm wrong, though). Perhaps more importantly, it reminds one too well of slaughtermaps, where it is customary to barrage the player with an entire arsenal before engagement. Having the player work around the map to gain enough firepower to take down the Cyberdemon might be the better option here, as it creates the feel of being evenly matched. I guess an e3m8 pistol start would be the best example of how this is achieved effectively.

I think it would also be much more interesting if you placed the weapons in ineresting places around your map. For example, hiding the plasma gun in one of those cracks would be pretty cool. If you apply the thinking I suggested for the blur sphere to a lesser degree for the weapons at the start, I think that might be a more interesting and a more compelling way to unfold the story of your E3M8.

EDIT: Your sheol level is too dark for me to play right now. I would need to play it in a dark room with nothing but the pale glow of a candle on my desk to be able to see anything and enjoy the map properly.

[Reisal]

DoomHero85 said:

Personally, I think we should make the maps harder than the original maps. Not a lot harder, but enough so that veteran players aren't bored.

That's exactly what I did with my E2M4 map.

[Vaporizer]

Sorry for not being on this thread for a while. I'll start working on my E3 map now.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

New version of "Throne of Distruction" no throne, hard to get blur artifact, and moved weapons and ammo.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/36fpq4f7d5mxtmr/Throne%20of%20Distruction.wad

[ellmo]

DoomHero85 said:

Also, My e3m8: Throne of Distruction

http://www.mediafire.com/file/6sww9cusjl2gusg/Throne%20of%20Distruction.wad

Jesus. Too. Much. Marble.
Also I don't like the fact there are so many monsters. Doom 1 NEVER threw 20 Barons at you, it's too simple.
Also I played through this map three times and I never had to face the Spiderdemon - he was always busy with infightning, kinda defeats the purpose of having a boss fight if the boss doesn't fight back.

[Icytux]

And the layout is done. This is by far the biggest map Doom this project will have/should have. I went a little bit overboard. Pic taken with a 1024grid

[Hellbent]

yeah, even without the blur sphere, didn't have to fire one shot at the spidey. The level suddenly ended while I was trying to figure out how to get the blur sphere. You may want to try no monsters in the final area--just the spidey.

Looks pretty swank Icytux. Unholy Cathedral is about 4x1024 across and high. So, yeah, your map is about 2 to 3 times larger and more complex. But E3M5 is a relatively simple map. Actually, E3 maps were generally simpler than E2. I wonder if that was more of a time crunch issue than a stylistic decision?

[ellmo]

Hellbent said:

Looks pretty swank Icytux. Unholy Cathedral is about 4x1024 across and high. So, yeah, your map is about 2 to 3 times larger and more complex.

But it looks Doomish! Tell me you didn't look at the map view and instantly thought it has something from Doom. Sure, it's larger, my map is quite large too. It's obvious we want to keep the player for a longer while, so they can play our level more.

I just need to play this level now and see it form the 'inside' :)

[Gez]

DoomHero85 said:

New version of "Throne of Distruction" no throne

Shouldn't it be the "Void of Distruction" then?

Also, is the spelling intentional to make a pun on Dis, or just a mistake?

[General Rainbow Bacon]

It is in fact a pun.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

I agree with the fact that I shouldn't have thrown a dozen barons at the player so I put in other monsters in lieu of them, and made it so you just fight spidey in the final room except for the blur artifact secret area.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/zudd3s9iwf1uo49/Throne%20of%20Distruction.wad

[ellmo]

The sad thing is - Spiderdemon is a complete tool.
I'm trying do do everything In my power to make this battle a challenge, but you can always have a fully loaded BFG and launch 5-7 hits. Voila, no figthing involved :(

Spiderdemons need more hitpoints and absolutely NO pain chance...

[DeathevokatioN]

ellmo said:

The sad thing is - Spiderdemon is a complete tool.
I'm trying do do everything In my power to make this battle a challenge, but you can always have a fully loaded BFG and launch 5-7 hits. Voila, no figthing involved :(

Spiderdemons need more hitpoints and absolutely NO pain chance...

What about 2 or 3 Spider Demons?

[General Rainbow Bacon]

How can I make the battle harder without making it easier at the same time??

[Gez]

A setup I've thought about is to have three spiders on high platforms, surrounding the player on a central platform. The ceiling of the central platform should be low enough that the spiders do not have line of sight to each others (so they won't infight), but it's of course important that the spiders can hit the player. So there needs to be a wide chasm between the spider platforms and the player platform.

If the player is denied close-quarter fighting with spidey, then the spider can gain back the upper hand.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

Okay, I'll try something like that. Thanks for the suggestion.

[ellmo]

What do you guys think about this?

http://www.mediafire.com/?vdej189d6ionotm

Simple, straightforward and as hard, as I can make it, without being vulgar.

When I think about it, it could make it even harder by releasing a couple of demons/spectres at player's back when he opens Spider's door. Would that be too pretentious?

[Marcaek]

ellmo:I like this one, it's really really hard from a pistol start, so it should be fine normally :) There's something going on outside the level, I can see what looks like walls with the sky texture. It's pretty noticable.

Throne of distruction on the other hand, feels very awkward overall. The teleporting spider doesn't seem like something that the Id guys would have done. The arena is too big and empty. The floor of the arena is very rough and the cracks are irritating. The wall lowering in the baron room feels out of place. The Barons aren't fun to fight. I don't like it thematically or gameplay wise :( I'd consider some alternate textures if you plan on revamping it, because the green marble doesn't look good everywhere.

Hervoheebo, your level is excellent. The teleport maze looks better in red. There's some misalignment between the SKINTEK and TEKWALL4 near the blue key, and you didn't set the exit to require the yellow key :P

[Icytux]

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/26125837/dtwidicy.wad

Here. Thank god i finally finished it. Il add a midi to it and figure out a name for it later. Tell me what you think.

Its E3M1 for now.

I might have gone a little bit overboard with aligning and trying to make stuff look good, but i hope it gives you some ID vibes. There might be a little bit much of ammo and hp on the lower skill levels. but they are supposed to be easier anyway.

[ellmo]

Marcaek said:

ellmo:I like this one, it's really really hard from a pistol start, so it should be fine normally :) There's something going on outside the level, I can see what looks like walls with the sky texture. It's pretty noticable.

Crap didn't notice.
Which port did you play? Can you provide a screenshot? I've had similar issues with my E3M1.

A propos:

E3M1-aplha done:









And a download linky:
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EDIT (wrong file linked): http://www.mediafire.com/?9kyp0y9mr104h0p