DTWID: Project is done, check the release thread

[Marcaek]

If you want a wall to show sky, it needs to have no texture and use F_SKY1 for the ceiling\floor of the sector it belongs to.

Picture is small because I was playing 320x200 :P Look along the highest wall.

[ellmo]

Thanks for pointing it out! I just noticed it myself too. Actually it doesn't matter what texture I use, upper texture always becomes a "horizon sky" if you have F_SKY1 as ceiling flat and I used SKY3 texture just to see it more clear in DoomBuilder. These homs you see, are a result of the fact, that lower textures do not behave in the same way, which I didn't really know. Fixin' it now.

[iori]

Well I found about 4 hours to work on my E1 map, here are a couple in progress shots:

[ellmo]

iori said:

Well I found about 4 hours to work on my E1 map, here are a couple in progress shots:

<screenshots>

Absolutely adorable! I can hear E1 music by looking at those screens.

EDIT: Also, fixed E3M8 "Sheol's nest"
http://www.mediafire.com/?rt68pnalcbupxtb

[Jan]

iori said:

Well I found about 4 hours to work on my E1 map, here are a couple in progress shots:

Now that looks really nice!

Be careful not go overboard with the detail though, let the textures and the angles do the work for you.

[Marcaek]

iori that looks really good so far.

My E3M3 is around 10% done. It's coming along quickly :)

[NaturalTvventy]

Nice iori, I like all the METAL1.

[Marcaek]

When it comes to favorite textures, METAL1 is right next to REDWALL1 for me :)

[ellmo]

Started working on a mid E1 map (E1M5 for now).

[XenoNemisis]

Hey everyone, I'd like to participate in this project (even if it's too late), mostly because when I started to map I've always tried to emulate the old school way. I'll start working on some maps and see what I come up with.

[NaturalTvventy]

This project has totally ruined my uberdetail level. I'm working on my old project now and I have no idea what I'm doing. Worth it though :)

[iori]

Thank you for the comments.
One of the things I've had to continuously do is take a step back and envision how to keep things fresh but nostalgic, as well as expand areas that become too crowded. E1 has a good mix of cramped halls that lead to vast pseudo-symmetrical rooms (some things are permitted to be 'off'). I enjoy giving the player a glimpse of future areas, as well as connecting the map so the player thinks "Oh, I'm back here". We'll see how it turns out.

This sort of project is difficult in the sense that it's very minimalistic from a 2011 go-crazy-with-detail perspective, but the challenge is welcomed.

[Hellbent]

screens look great! I just stumbled upon this old thread which discusses what makes an e1 map an e1 map.

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=308344#post308344

Here's a snippet from the thread that applies to our project.

Sargebaldy said:

do NOT ripoff an E1 room to the point it's recognizably similar. it just looks cheap. if id had made a 10th E1Mx map, i somehow doubt it would contain a room remarkably similar to something in one of the original maps.

[Devalaous]

This project has exploded with life thanks to Romero :D

I love what I saw of the Sheol Descent map, anyone doing the other two he suggested? Biosphere sounds a little difficult, although you could probably use the blackened trees to great effect in it

[XenoNemisis]

Okay, this is what I have so far (Episode 3 level)

http://img232.imageshack.us/i/tartarus.jpg/
http://img10.imageshack.us/i/screenshotdoom201101080.png/
http://img194.imageshack.us/f/screenshotdoom201101080.png/

[DeathevokatioN]

Iori those are some of the best looking shots I've seen in this thread. Really nice work mate.

[ellmo]

Ragnor said:

This project has exploded with life thanks to Romero :D

PFFFF! I joined before he dropped by ;)

I love what I saw of the Sheol Descent map, anyone doing the other two he suggested? Biosphere sounds a little difficult, although you could probably use the blackened trees to great effect in it

Working on a E1 level now. I might steer in this direction.

XenoNemisis said:

Okay, this is what I have so far (Episode 3 level)

<screenshots>

Those screenies look okay, but they don't show much. They show you know which textures to use and the mapshot shows you don't use excessive detail. Keep it up and post screenshots with more content so we ca see how the work progresses.

[Icytux]

Any input on my finished map? I posted a download link on the previous page.

[Tormentor667]

This is definitely going to be one of the greatest projects in history. Awesome shots guys!

[NaturalTvventy]

Tormentor667 said:

This is definitely going to be one of the greatest projects in history. Awesome shots guys!

You should join in Torm :D See how close you can get to a classic id map!

[DeathevokatioN]

NaturalTvventy said:

You should join in Torm :D See how close you can get to a classic id map!

[General Rainbow Bacon]

If anyone hasn't downloaded and tried my Sheol map, Here are some shots to entice you:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Download:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/u8t9x7mz9jxjyay/Sheol%27s%20Spiraling%20Descent.wad

[Marcaek]

That looks pretty good DoomHero. I'd play it, but I think I'm going to take a break from Doom for a day. As a rule, when I start have Doom dreams, it's time to do something else for a bit.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

LOL, agreed. Have a good break!

[Hellbent]

Icytux said:

Any input on my finished map? I posted a download link on the previous page.

The good: I really like the beginning area. The layout in the beginning is really interesting and fun, with good gameplay.

The level is a bit big and could almost be broken up into two levels.

You mix a lot of themes, which possibly makes the level come across as too abstract or uninified. Romero mentioned abstract is important, but you don't want to go overboard. Consider E3M3, an episode 3 map that, like your map, has a lot of different themes and no real central theme. It mixes different themes and is abstract, but its design quality is very consistent. Interesting room shapes, but not overboard--room size very consistent. Lots of straight lines--few curved lines. If there are curved lines, they are very to the point--they don't wander or meander at all (the curved alcove to the invulnerability and the curved corridor in the flesh maze). Your design scheme is a little too organic to be mistaken for Petersen. I know I emphasized odd angles and organic shapes, but, like everything in this project, balance is key. It's very easy to take a governing principle too far, whether its the concept of abstractness, uniform theme, odd shaped sectors, etc. Maybe the reason rooms like the one with the cacodemon in the windows at the beginning of E3M4 stick out in my mind is because they are more the exception than the rule. That status of 'exception' (or not overly common) causes the player to take notice. If every room was like that--doom would like a chaotic mess.

So, yeah, I'd say much of your corridors and rooms are a bit on the organic, curvaceous side of things.

Texturing: your wood area reminds me a bit of Episode 4. There are pure wood areas in Doom, but they are generally not corridor-y. Episode 4's wood areas were often corridor-y (E4M3 for example).

The E3M2 area is, well... reminiscent of E3M2:

Romero said: For Doom, I never wrote anything down. At the start of making a level, I would imagine what would a great starting area look like....what's the feel supposed to be....also, i knew what levels had already been made, so i couldn't duplicate anything, it had to be fresh.

Some of your texturing schemes were a bit too abstract for my feeling.

So I think today's lesson is to exercise balance: consider all the governing principles of the project, but be careful not to take any one of them to an extreme--we're not trying to improve or accentuate any aspect of DOOM, just replicate it with fresh levels, avoiding remaking or doing spin offs of any existing area. As Romero said, it's easy to know if you are doing it right: just compare your map to the ones in the episode you are mapping for! Everyone working on this project should be studying the maps from the episode you are mapping for while you are working on your map.

Your design is consistent--your scale and the shapes of your sectors are consistent. So you demonstrate you understand how to maintain consistency, which is great. Your scale is slightly on the large side. Corridors in Doom/E3 are rarely greater than 128 in width. Many of yours tend to be larger than this, which can bring in something of a Doom 2 vibe at times. If you look at E3M3, I see only one corridor that is wider than 128--the rest are 128 or narrower. Your level is sort of a slightly expanded, slightly more abstract, slightly more organic Doom level. The upper left hand corner and the lower right hand corner of your map look very much like they could come from an original Doom map.

Don't dishearten: I've been trying to keep my nitpicking to a minimum. But from time to time I think it's important to bring up these niggling issues as we strive to make maps that are mistakable for the originals. We're not going for a Doom vibe, we are going for Doom mistakability! Your map just happened to be the unlucky one that got the royal treatment.

Also:

St. Alfonso is working on a 'Doom Bible' of sorts for Doom the way it is (rather than Doom the way Tom Hall envisioned it should be). The document will basically be a manual and a checklist for how to keep your levels consistent with Romero's and Petersen's. So hopefully with that guide, it will get easier.

[Icytux]

Thank you for the input :)

I couldn't agree more. I too have taken into account what actually makes the map not look doomy and what does. And almost all my areas look big. Its ok with one or two big areas. but when everything is big, it dosnt give you that awesome vibe as Doom1 did. It takes away the feeling of being threatened and the feel of just being very small comes in instead. But its a little bit too late to change this in my map now. Atleast its something that I just cant bother to do, I would rather start a new map entierly. But i might fix some of the texturing inconsistencies and fix a few bugs for this map and make a tune for it soonish!

Anyway, I'm kind of proud of the map either way. I atleast like the layout i made, the flow of the map, having a key that is totally optional and lots of secrets(my maps are usually super linear, this was linear too but not as much). And that every area is pretty recognizable. If... I will make a E2 map, The focus will be on more consistency in both size and texturing.

[Marcaek]

DoomHero85 said:

LOL, agreed. Have a good break!

Okay I lied. I'm enjoying this too much :P E3M3 up to 15%.

You know what this project needs? A map shaped like something, like E3M2.

And Icy, if your map isn't suitable, you should definitely put it up on idgames regardless.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

Maybe I'll make a map shaped like a foot since we already have a hand. :P

[40oz]

I'm not seein it, DoomHero85. I don't know how you could pass that off as a John Romero map OR a Sandy Petersen map. It's not bad it's just not right

[General Rainbow Bacon]

I'm not actually going to do that, it was a joke.