DTWID: Project is done, check the release thread

[C30N9]

Hey can't wait for Xaser's alpha... W... wait! It has been released?! Damn it Hellbent! Change the title! :P

Anyway I'm glad you reached this goal, this the best megawad for Doom! I wish my "Demonic Halls" made it but that's ok ;).

EDIT: Download link in 87.

[Marnetmar]

Well I'm to E3M3, I'll drop some criticism on what I've seen so far...


-I think I asked you this before Xaser but I'm not sure. Anyway, what's with the dirt ceilings in E1M1?
-Why is there a berserk pack in E1M4?
-In E2M4, there's a lift to the starting room in the northeast corner of the map that cannot be reactivated, and the door to that room got closed somewhere along the line so I had to noclip out.
-There should be more health in E2M5
-For some reason, E2M6 really seemed bland. I can't put my finger on why.
-What's with the exit sign in E3M1?
-There's a HOM on the E3M1 bridge
-What's with the computer stations with E3M2? Also, no offense Marcaek, but this level doesn't really seem to fit Id's style at all. As Hellbent said, "Orthogonality be damned!" I don't like the way you introduced Barons so early in the episode either.
-I loved E2's progression, it really gave an increasing sense of dread, and I like the way that by E2M5 the levels barely even resemble human structures anymore.
-While E2M6 was mostly bland in my opinion, I loved that rising spiral staircase with the window to the red area. The way it was lower unpegged gave a very surreal and psychedelic effect.
-Thank you for including Petersen station!
-The music is a level beyond awesome, major props to Mr. Freeze.

[Hellbent]

I'm on e1m5 right now.

• you get a rad suit shortly before you come out on the pier (e1m9) inviting you to take a dip--but there is no way out of the slime pit.
  
  
• there is a glitch in one of the uac towers on e1m3 (nukage dump)
  the secret to the blue armor on e1m3 is a bit too much of an homage to e1m3's secret to the soul sphere.
  
  
• the berserk on e1m4 needs to be removed and replaced with something else.
  
  
• not sure how I feel about a soul sphere on e1m1.
  
  
• rocket launchers are hard to come by (still haven't found one and i'm on e1m5). Not necessarily a bad thing, but levels 3 and onwards all had RL on them (in secrets). There is no RL on e1m4.

that's it for now.

[Blastfrog]

E2M1 has too many similarities in architecture to the original E2M1, feels a little bit homage-y.

[Vermil]

E1M8:

The top right Demon (thing 50) in the top right Barron pen overlaps the sector behind it, preventing the platform from lowering in engines that don't have ZDoom's altered collision detection.

I'd also watch that the Demons in the top left Barron pen are slightly imbedded in the walls, though the original Doom's collision detection can handle that.

Also, the lowering sectors at the start reveal a behaviour difference in ZDoom compared to the original game.

[Phobus]

I'm on E2M9, and so far I've found this:

http://tinypic.com/r/2mhbhhz/7

I think it was E1M6 or E1M7, but that misaligned texture had me convinced there should be something behind it. Cheating on the automap told me otherwise.

I've also noticed that weird glitch in E1M3 with the little UAC towers. I couldn't help but think that the secret exit was also entirely down to guesswork based on the knowledge that you know it has to be there, in the map, somewhere.

I personally didn't mind the RL being absent for so long. I didn't need it at all in the whole of E1, but I used it once or twice for kicks (and killing the E1M8 barons quicker).

Speaking of E1M8, I quite liked the way the whole start of the map is out to kill you, and that its possible to get stuck and die if you're being stupid.

E2M3 got a solid WTF from me. Its tiny, for one thing. It also seems to be mostly staffed by cacodemons, and probably about as un-id as the project gets.

E2M4, with all those random secret doors that don't seem to do anything, seemed like a really bad map. Didn't enjoy it much all, as I just spent the whole time wondering WTF was going on.

E2M5 seems to be an out-of-date version as it's really easy to bump the soulsphere through the grate in the red key door room. The map also seemed really easy to me, but I did come in well stacked for health, ammo and armour... and I did kind of make it, so I knew where everything was.

I'm definitely getting the Doom feeling - E1 nearly dragged me down once or twice under the weight of all those hitscanners and E2 does seem to have the right sort of progression.

One problem I am having is that either people were unwittingly making close tributes to specific mapslots, or Xaser's gone through the maps, seen what looks closest to the pre-exisiting slot and arranged the maps thusly. In particular E1M3 (an otherwise good map), E2M1 (which is an out-and-out homage, to me), E2M2 (I had a sinking feeling there'd be a crate maze somewhere. Sure enough, one was there to disappoint me) and E3M6 (which is a map I otherwise really like) are all far too reminiscant of the slot they're in. I think E1M4 was also a culprit, and E1M6 was a dead ringer for what would've gone in the E1M7 slot. Saying that though, I'm glad E1M6 was where it was, because it meant that the map at least wasn't an obvious tribute to the slot it was in.

As for the music... most of it is pretty nice actually. The intermission music is quite dull and unexciting compared to the original one though, which was even more obvious in E2M3 when its being listened to for longer. E2M1 just seemed like a slowed version of the original D_E2M1, so that was a bit dissappointing.

Overall thoughts so far? It's pretty good, but feels a bit like a Doom tribute sometimes, rather than a collection of potential 10th or alternative maps.

[C30N9]

Double Post -_-
Sorry

[C30N9]

Sodaholic said:

E2M1 has too many similarities in architecture to the original E2M1, feels a little bit homage-y.

Yeah I felt that too.

BTW, E1M2 is good, but looks over-detailed.

[phobosdeimos1]

Phobus said:

[url]Overall thoughts so far? It's pretty good, but feels a bit like a Doom tribute sometimes, rather than a collection of potential 10th or alternative maps.

That's exactly what I was just about to post, in short.

E2M1 - A virtual replica?

I think this is because you made the Alpha with no input from anyone,

Is Hellbent going to release his version?

[40oz]

I'm not sure how i feel about the music

I didn't get to play much of the Alpha but I like the even distribution of mappers in it. I thought spaceport would make an awesome E1M1 too. Given people's feedback, it doesn't seem all that unusual to how most people feel about most IWAD maps already in the game too.

[C30N9]

I'm gonna post the bad thing I thought about (this doesn't mean the map was bad):

E1M1 - A bit more complex than first map.

E1M2 - Over detailed for an "id" map, especially the marble bridge.

E1M3 - Lots of light blinks.

[Marnetmar]

Wait, I wasn't aware Hellbent was making an alpha as well.

[C30N9]

I keep wondering why 40oz's E1M*-1 map didn't enter. The layout is great if you look at the automap and it has a cool E1 atmosphere for me.

[Marnetmar]

C30N9 said:

I'm gonna post the bad thing I thought about (this doesn't mean the map was bad):

E1M1 - A bit more complex than first map.

E1M2 - Over detailed for an "id" map, especially the marble bridge.

E1M3 - Lots of light blinks.

I agree with the first two, I'm designing another E1M1 and a less non-linear/detailed E1M2. Here's the mostly complete E1M2 layout if anyone's curious:



(No offense Mithran Denizen, your map is awesome but I think it's a bit large/overly detailed)

[C30N9]

Just make E1M1, and give Mithran a chance to make/edit E1M2.

[Marnetmar]

Sorry you're right. Sometimes I do things without thinking.

[Xaser]

Hey all,

Thanks for the feedback so far! It's good to hear everyone seems to be enjoying it. :)

I've noted down all the bugs & opinions of everyone thus far. Once a sizable list is created, I'll go ahead and post it up so all authors can take a look and decide what they'd like to do. I don't mind making any of these corrections myself, for the record, if anyone doesn't mind and is tired of messing around with their submissions. ;)

Some quick responses regarding the state of a few maps in question:

E2M1: Receiving Station -- I'm probably going to withdraw this submission. I'm personally really happy with how the map turned out, though it is indeed a large mix of themes from E1M1 and E2M1. It's currently found its home in another project, and I think I might take a stab at another E2M1 now that I've got a bit more experience with this sort of thing than before.

Note that E2M4 and E1M8 may possibly be taken out as well for the same reason (they're also being used in another place).

E2M3: Biosphere -- I included this one as somewhat of a placeholder. It's mostly there in hopes that the map would later be extended, but consider it a 'free slot' of sorts for now.

E3M2: Manufactorium -- Sorta the same as the above. I like some of the ideas in this one, but it is indeed too small, orthogonal, and cramped at present. I wonder what the status of Marcaek's remake is...

And a few more responses,

Phobus said:

One problem I am having is that either people were unwittingly making close tributes to specific mapslots, or Xaser's gone through the maps, seen what looks closest to the pre-exisiting slot and arranged the maps thusly. In particular E1M3 (an otherwise good map), E2M1 (which is an out-and-out homage, to me), E2M2 (I had a sinking feeling there'd be a crate maze somewhere. Sure enough, one was there to disappoint me) and E3M6 (which is a map I otherwise really like) are all far too reminiscant of the slot they're in. I think E1M4 was also a culprit, and E1M6 was a dead ringer for what would've gone in the E1M7 slot. Saying that though, I'm glad E1M6 was where it was, because it meant that the map at least wasn't an obvious tribute to the slot it was in.

E1M3, E2M1, and E2M2 were all made for the slots they wound up in (so I'm only 1/3 to blame :P ), and possibly E3M6 as well (can't say I remember which slot Chris originally put it on). It's possible that E1M4 might move to the secret map slot in the future, and E1M6 isn't likely to be moving. E3M6 might shift over a slot into E3M7, but that mostly depends on whether or not Depths gets moved over an episode (of which I'm curious to know what you think about its current place -- would you prefer it in E3? I find it fits eerily well in E2M5's slot, but it could go in either).

The homage situation is a bit tricky. Honestly, I usually don't mind it one bit (as evidenced by E2M1, though I suppose I did go a bit far on that one). It's inevitable, being influenced by the original maps and all, that a few motifs would sneak in here and there. When it boils down to it, though, if it's a very minor thing, I don't really feel it's worth changing an entire area of an otherwise great map just to accommodate.

For example: the crate room in E2M2 might be reminiscent of the original (simply from the fact that it uses crates), but it's the only part of the map that is and it likely wouldn't draw question if it wasn't for the slot it's placed in. That, to me, seems like a really minor issue -- a valid point to make, but not worth removing the area for. 'Course, 40oz has the final say on that one.

phobosdeimos1 said:

I think this is because you made the Alpha with no input from anyone,

I'm getting input from everyone right now. That's the point of the Alpha. ;)

Marnetmar said:

Wait, I wasn't aware Hellbent was making an alpha as well.

He's not. He approached me to put together a "playable demo" a little while back, just to showcase what's been done so far. He'd taken a look at it before release too, and didn't seem to disapprove too much. :P

[Reisal]

Hey Phobus, what is this glitch you speak of with the tanks in the second half of the map you speak of?

[Hellbent]

The slimepit at the end of e1m6 doesn't do damage.

[Foodles]

In e1m9, by the button that lowers the red key pillar, not all of the nukage does damage, the stuff in the "shade" doesnt hurt you (sector 92), theres no way to get out of this slime pit either, which I don't really mind except that it looks like there may be something behind the giant BROWNHUG structure, which is what encouraged me to jump straight in to my doom.

[C30N9]

Xaser are you going to remap E2M1 or give it a chance to someone else?

[Hellbent]

Mr. Chris said:

Hey Phobus, what is this glitch you speak of with the tanks in the second half of the map you speak of?

stand on top of one of the towers and move around until you see the glitch. Alternately, you can just look at this pic:

[purist]

Beta FDA. I got to Logic Core before I died and enjoyed much of it. Good work guys. I'm not convinced it's quite got the original aim down pat but I won't go into that because it's very subjective and difficult to define.

Anyway, my demo is not particulary interesting or anything - except perhaps to those that made the levels I played.

[Marnetmar]

purist said:

Beta FDA. I got to Logic Core before I died and enjoyed much of it. Good work guys. I'm not convinced it's quite got the original aim down pat but I won't go into that because it's very subjective and difficult to define.

Anyway, my demo is not particulary interesting or anything - except perhaps to those that made the levels I played.

What source port did you use to record the demo? I can't seem to get it working in chocolate doom.

[purist]

PRBoom+. Sorry, I should have specified.

[Phobus]

Hellbent said:

stand on top of one of the towers and move around until you see the glitch.

I was getting the glitch walking around the base of that tower. It was very quick and impossible to pin down location-wise (in ZDoom), but it was a bit like I was falling into the floor breifly. At a guess it's a dodgy nodebuild.

@Xaser: I didn't mind E3M2, personally. It seemed like a fairly reasonable early E3 map to me. Certainly not too small, with 60-odd monsters on UV. Lake of Fire was made for E3M6, but never originally had a secret exit, which is a large part of why I went for the slot with a map that wasn't inspired by Mt. Erebus in any way.

Saying that though, my map does seem to fit well in E2M5, and indeed E2 in general, as things stand. I'd say leave it for now.

I'm up to E3M3 on my playthrough now (I think). Additional thoughts:

E2M9 was a bit weird... but nice and playable. Pretty much daimon through-and-through, I'd say.

E2M8 was rather easy, but thats no surprise to me. I'd been breezing through the whole episode, and a map that's basically a fight with a cyberdemon was never going to be a challenge.

I've noticed an odd similarity in Iori's and st.alfonzo's maps for this project. Playing the maps, things seemed almost too abstract. I couldn't shake the feeling that they'd been trying to make them as unlikely as possible, even perhaps going as far as to purposely misalign textures and things to hammer home the "id-ness" of it. Certainly strange, and I'd have no idea how you'd change this.

Of the three M1s I'd say E3M1 is probably the most ideal. I wasn't fond of E2M1, not entirely due to it being far too similar to the original, and I thought E1M1 was great, but felt a little too big (only to be dwarfed by either E1M2 or E1M3, can't remember which).

I'm starting to miss the original soundtrack a bit now and I know why. The more metal MIDIs in the music pack we've got seem to be too slow and a bit more upbeat, unlike the fighty sort of things I'm used to. Main examples would be D_E2M1, D_E3M1 (which reminds me of the CChest3 intermission music, IIRC) and the intermission/D_E2M3 music. I'm not saying they're bad tracks, but I do feel that I'd prefer the original MIDIs in their place due to the pacing.

@Marnetmar: As I played E2M6 after reading your comment on it seeming a bit bland, I probably went in looking for how it was bland myself. Playing through myself it seemed alright, but in some way the pacing did feel a bit off. Perhaps a little slow or something. Kind of seemed like I was exploring more than fighting my way through the map, I think. It really hasn't stuck in my memory too well though.

[Memfis]

Is E1M4 music based on Gay Bar? That's awesome!

Oh, and here is my Episode 1 FDAs with -fast: http://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/993738

Speaking of E1M8, I quite liked the way the whole start of the map is out to kill you, and that its possible to get stuck and die if you're being stupid.

It is also possible to get stuck without being able to die. (see my demo)

[phobosdeimos1]

Xaser said:

I'm getting input from everyone right now. That's the point of the Alpha.

Hey Xaser, yeah I really like the withdrawals you've made,
as bitter as it may seem that I say this (I do NZoT mean it to), I got such great feedback for the "Siege HQ" map that I want that msp to be included, forget the name of course.

Also, I would like to see a Hellbent beta, as you can't just create such an awesome thread then not conclude it, you sexy man!

[Hellbent]

Phobus said:

E2M8 was rather easy, but thats no surprise to me. I'd been breezing through the whole episode, and a map that's basically a fight with a cyberdemon was never going to be a challenge.

Why is there a plasma rifle on this map?

[Moustachio]

Having just played the first episode, I can now give my honest feedback on it. It was amazing. Every map picked was fantastic and gave off that fresh E1 feel. The difficulty balance was great as well, as I completed the whole episode without dying. I did come close a few times, so it's not particularly easy.

There were a few glitches though:
-There's a tutti frutti glitch in E1M5.
-In E1M7 there were a few enemies stuck in the walls.
-E1M8 crashed when I first played it in Chocolate Doom. It crashed as the floor was lowering.

But, undoubtedly, the best part in my opinion was the music. Every track was fitting, catchy, and sounded like a Doom track. My personal favorite was the intermission music.

Props to Xaser for putting this alpha together, props to Mr. Freeze for the great soundtrack, and props to the mappers who did an awesome job at recreating E1. Let's hope any changes made are for the better!