Doom 4 should have...

[Edward850]

Deeforce said:

The internet for installing video games is not great, because there can be times where you don't have internet and then you cannot install the video games. That's really bad. Also because if you think of hackers. I don't mean the multiplayer like classic doom online. I mean things like steam or Origin or the online installation of Starcraft 2.

Because it's not like SteamWorks games have retail install discs. OH WAIT...

Now if you were talking about having to go online to begin an install, well clearly you have been under some kind of rock for the past few years, because I don't see any publisher not doing that any time soon (that, and it's kind of missing the point of Steam being an online service).

[PRIMEVAL]

Marnetmar said:

What the fuck is wrong with Steam?

A lot of things.

[doom_is_great]

AirRaid said:

Brutal Doom is retarded.

Well, to each his own. I for one think Brutal Doom is way awesome. My hope is that the level of action, speed, and violence in Doom 4 is on par with what is in Brutal Doom.

[DooM_RO]

doom_is_great said:

Well, to each his own. I for one think Brutal Doom is way awesome. My hope is that the level of action, speed, and violence in Doom 4 is on par with what is in Brutal Doom.

It is awesome because it is a MOD. Yeah, the fatalities are awesome but I would not like to have the control of my character taken away every fatrality in Doom 4. What id could learn from the mod is the general violence which is very cool indeed.

[doom_is_great]

DooM_RO said:

It is awesome because it is a MOD. Yeah, the fatalities are awesome but I would not like to have the control of my character taken away every fatrality in Doom 4. What id could learn from the mod is the general violence which is very cool indeed.

Yeah, I hope they do. I know that Matt Hooper has played it because he commented about it on his Twitter. Hopefully they will make it as violent as Brutal Doom.

[45th Parrallel]

doom_is_great said:

Yeah, I hope they do. I know that Matt Hooper has played it because he commented about it on his Twitter. Hopefully they will make it as violent as Brutal Doom.

But remember increasing the violence could get it banned in some countries (Australia)

[Koko Ricky]

Doom is far older than most FPS franchises. It's perhaps the only shooter with a sequel in the works that is originally based on 2.5D engine with largely abstract environments. I think that no matter what we hope it to be, it's going to be radically different from most anything resembling the original games. It probably won't even look much like Doom 3.

[Retog]

I hope it doesn't look like doom 3 but we all hope to see the original gameplay of the first two but with modern day graphics. We will probably get something completely different. I hope we aren't let down again like we were with doom 3.

[Koko Ricky]

Doom 3 wasn't a huge letdown, it just didn't live up to its potential. It's atmospheric, immersive, meticulously designed, grimy yet futuristic, and the interactive computers were an interesting gimmick. The problem was the fact that it was slow, kinda boring and not nearly as visceral or as demonic as the original games. I don't see why id wouldn't learn from that experience.

[printz]

GoatLord said:

and not nearly as visceral or as demonic as the original games.

I'd say it was visceral as fuck, considering how noisy and macabre it was. In my opinion Doom 3 was ruined by shitty linear level design, the rest was superb.

[Koko Ricky]

When I say it wasn't very visceral, I mean that the extreme violence of the original Doom wasn't really present. Sure, there are mutilated bodies and enemies bleed, but like most modern shooters, the animation didn't really give you the feeling that you were tearing apart skin and exposing organs. Cal me a sadist, but I have yet to see a modern shooter that has the kind of extreme visuals you see in Doom, Blood, Duke 3D, Shadow Warrior, etc.

[DooM_RO]

printz said:

I'd say it was visceral as fuck, considering how noisy and macabre it was. In my opinion Doom 3 was ruined by shitty linear level design, the rest was superb.

I wouldn't say it's linear - especially when compared to more modern games. For example, in the part where you have to protect that lantern guy, if you stray a bit and go on, you eventually find a chaingun much earlier than you are supposed to. Same goes with a lot of other weapons like the plasma gun not to mention the ton of other secrets.

[Nathan92]

Hey guys, pardon me if this has already been asked or answered, etc... But Is Doom 4 dead? I'm not sure what to make of what's been going on.

[Touchdown]

Nathan92 said:

Hey guys, pardon me if this has already been asked or answered, etc... But Is Doom 4 dead? I'm not sure what to make of what's been going on.

No, it's still very much in development. The were some rumours like that months ago but all of them were confirmed as false by id/Bethesda. It also looks like with the announcement of DOOM 3 BFG Edition id wants to get some attention for the DOOM franchise, hopefully some kind of build-up for DOOM 4. QuakeCon is probably the only time when something can be revealed.

[999cop]

Will Doom 4 be distributed via the cloud?

[Koko Ricky]

printz said:

I'd say it was visceral as fuck, considering how noisy and macabre it was. In my opinion Doom 3 was ruined by shitty linear level design, the rest was superb.

Commenting on this again, I'd have to say the ultimate downfall was aesthetics and presentation. What should have been the great successor to Doom 2 ended up having a lot of cliches, sound effects and music that were often underwhelming, a childish storyline, "shitty linear level design" as you mentioned, and enemies that failed to look threatening. I think Doom 3 was actually oozing with potential, but it ended up being kind of mediocre.

[Agentbromsnor]

WAD file support. Not very likely, but I would jizz my pants if they would include that.

Furthermore it should include all the basics of a good old-school shooters like people mentioned before. Powerfull guns, no stupid jumpscares, no fumbling with a flashlight. Just you, your guns, and 500 monsters. It shouldn't be a funking scienceproject.

Also, no 'trick'-bosses. Having a cyberdemon in Doom 3 that can only be killed with three shots from some mcguffin artifact is the greatest insult to the series yet. A cyberdemon bossfight should be like this: 1) pack loads of ammo, 2) fire the mentioned ammo onto the cyberdemon untill either its dead or you're out of ammo. It shouldn't be any more complicated then that.

Also, I would like to see a more pronounced Satanic theme to the game. Just when I thought Doom 3 got more bloody and Satanic, I was at the cyberdemon already. Spacestations are fine, but they get really boring really fast.

GoatLord said:

When I say it wasn't very visceral, I mean that the extreme violence of the original Doom wasn't really present. Sure, there are mutilated bodies and enemies bleed, but like most modern shooters, the animation didn't really give you the feeling that you were tearing apart skin and exposing organs. Cal me a sadist, but I have yet to see a modern shooter that has the kind of extreme visuals you see in Doom, Blood, Duke 3D, Shadow Warrior, etc.

I think that partially this was due to the fact that bodies of enemies disappear in Doom 3 after you killed them. This made some levels even more cumbersome to navigate, because in a game like Doom 2 you could use the bodies of the enemies as a sort of 'breadcrumb' trail, so you know where you've been already.

[Netherstorm]

Needs more impse

[sheeple]

Radon said:

Overwhelming enemies, bigger guns, more blood, more gore and heavy metal music.

This.

[Koko Ricky]

"Overwhelming enemies..."
We Doomers love the desperation of being hideously outnumbered, and Carmack's claim of 30 enemies at a time clawing at you is certainly inviting. But an increase in artificial intelligence is what will really make them "overwhelming." I picture demons cooperating, not just incidentally attacking at the same time. I'd love to see them figure out their environment quickly and find unexpected paths to your position.

"Bigger guns..."
The guns in Doom 3 felt a bit puny, and this was amplified by their lackluster sound effects. The weapons in the new game not only need to look and sound powerful, but considering the futuristic nature of the series, I'd love to see some inventiveness. Take a look at a few descriptions I found while researching futuristic weapons:

"A computer-aided targeting system that allows the user to quickly aim at a target and to adjust the range of the air-bursting round."

"A collapsible firing-post, which is fitted with a camera and video screen, attaches to a disposable, one-shot 60 mm grenade launcher. Rounds can be fired at a 90 degree angle."

I'd also like to see more realistic interpretations of so-called plasma rifles, laser guns, and fully automatic shotguns (which already exist).

"More blood, more gore..."
I'd love to see dynamic death animations. This is a tall order, but possible if it's somewhat simple. I think it's about time we see a Doom game in which individual limbs can be severed, explosions mangle bodies, enemies can be decapitated, organs can be exposed, wounds appear where the weapon hit them, etc. Some of this is present in Doom 3, so why not just up the ante and make it more detailed for Doom 4?

"Heavy metal music."
Unfortunately, a lot of metal that is released these days is...well, it's really faggy and shitty; estrogen-laced and directionless. But it would be cheesy for Doom 4 to go retro and feature speed and thrash metal instrumentals. I think that any sort of metal that is to be featured in the soundtrack should take notes from more eccentric bands that combine extreme metal with noise, ambient, drone and orchestral music, because those elements would sound great together in a Doom game. As long as it's instrumental.

[GingerPickle]

I think Doom 4 should focus on having solid, consistent, well designed gameplay flow. I really don't think that heavy metal and cartoonish monsters would really work well in the game.

[Mogul]

GoatLord said:

"A computer-aided targeting system that allows the user to quickly aim at a target and to adjust the range of the air-bursting round."

"A collapsible firing-post, which is fitted with a camera and video screen, attaches to a disposable, one-shot 60 mm grenade launcher. Rounds can be fired at a 90 degree angle."[/i]

Wow, this is a pretty geo-esque post. It's doubly remarkable because it was made by someone that registered ten years ago, not a couple of months ago.

These weapons have no place in the DOOM universe. DOOM's weapons have qualities that you can relate to very quickly. Only two of them are explicitly sci-fi, and even those are easy to "get." When people attempt to create new weapons (not saying you're going this far), they often imagine the highest-tech, most sci-fi thing they can imagine. And it just doesn't fit in this game's universe. When I think about those weapons, I think of something like Modern Warfare, or most-often, the Unreal series. And to be honest, I think the Unreal series' weapons are horrible because of how gimmicky/sci-fi they are. Weapons like these aren't simple enough; they're not immediate-enough for DOOM.

As much as people clamor for id to "do something different, for a change," this kind of addition is not universe-appropriate.

As for the heavy metal suggestion, I think that would become so repetitive and generic that it would start to grate your ears. Also, the art aesthetic of Doom 4 doesn't support that kind of soundtrack, in my opinion. To pull metal off, something a bit more classic-animation-looking would be more appropriate.

[Agentbromsnor]

GoatLord said:
"Heavy metal music."
Unfortunately, a lot of metal that is released these days is...well, it's really faggy and shitty; estrogen-laced and directionless. But it would be cheesy for [i]Doom 4 to go retro and feature speed and thrash metal instrumentals. I think that any sort of metal that is to be featured in the soundtrack should take notes from more eccentric bands that combine extreme metal with noise, ambient, drone and orchestral music, because those elements would sound great together in a Doom game. As long as it's instrumental. [/B]

I agree with most of what you said, but I don't agree with this one. Metal music in games is the most cliche thing, just like they added Disturbed's music to clips of Dragonball Z te make it more "BR00TAL!!1". If they want Doom 4 to still be inventive, I suggest they make a more ambient score ala PlayStation Doom (I know people here are mostly allergic to console games, but IMO PlayStation Doom = one of the best versions of Doom), or the first Quake. That soundtrack was creepy and atmospheric, but didn't get in the way of the action focussed gameplay.

[Koko Ricky]

I'm not talking about bullshit like Disturbed. There are numerous obscure bands in the underground metal scene that sound noisy, ambient, droning and ugly; if that were combined with dark ambient textures and neoclassical/atonal orchestration, it would sound amazing. I'm not at ALL talking about the stupid DUN DUN DUN crap that you hear in most games that have a "heavy" soundtrack.

[Mogul]

GoatLord said:

dark ambient textures and neoclassical/atonal orchestration

This is interesting. If the metal is sparse, extremely dark, strictly instrumental, and used to supplement an ambient/neo-classical score, the results could be awesome. Unfortunately, I don't think any studio is that sophisticated. Grats on the imagination though, that's a pretty cool idea.

E: Seems to me that a game series very much inspired by the Alien series ought to also take a look at the music of James Horner and Jerry Goldsmith. Their compositional styles each gave their own flavor to the first two Alien movies, and corresponded very well to the tone of each movie. Several game studios have moved to purely orchestral soundtracks, to great effect. Even id used some orchestral stuff on Rage. I hope they're mature enough to go in that direction again.

[Koko Ricky]

Mogul, in response to your criticism of my insistence on futuristic guns, I have this to say. Let's say the grenade launcher, upon left clicking and holding, lets you swing the barrel up to 90 degrees in a particular direction while a small window pops up over your visor (I picture a HUD resembling the one from alpha Doom), and upon releasing the button, fires the grenade. That's extremely simple and, in my opinion, incredibly badass. Is that really so complicated and out-of-place in the Doom universe that it wouldn't work?

[schwerpunk]

Just jumping in here, in response to the title:

I liked Doom 3, and would be happy with a new game that basically played like Doom 3.5+, but what I really love are Doom 1 and 2... I just don't play Doom 3 anymore, because though it is beautiful, and fun, it lacks replay value in my opinion.

Doom 1 and 2 feel wonderfully arcade-y, or sport-y, maybe; where success in those games is about reflexes, quick planning, and knowledge of game dynamics. The excellent Doom Builder 2 doesn't hurt, either.

What I would love is a sort of remake in the DTWID style - perhaps even using the old Doom engine - but with new textures, enemies, weapons, etc. This could be done very economically, as a side project with a small team, and even if it sold only moderately well, it could easily pay for itself.

I can't tell you how excited I would get about a new, classic Doom that employed brand new, official assets. I would buy that if only so I could extract the sprites and textures to play with!

[Mogul]

GoatLord said:

Mogul, in response to your criticism of my insistence on futuristic guns, I have this to say. Let's say the grenade launcher, upon left clicking and holding, lets you swing the barrel up to 90 degrees in a particular direction while a small window pops up over your visor (I picture a HUD resembling the one from alpha Doom), and upon releasing the button, fires the grenade. That's extremely simple and, in my opinion, incredibly badass. Is that really so complicated and out-of-place in the Doom universe that it wouldn't work?

This game has never really been about gadgets. I can't imagine feeling like DOOM with stuff like that happening. I do think it might be an interesting gameplay idea.

[schwerpunk]

Mogul said:

This game has never really been about gadgets. I can't imagine feeling like DOOM with stuff like that happening. I do think it might be an interesting gameplay idea.

I'm not automatically against the concept, though I would feel ever-so-slightly betrayed, depending on how it was implemented. HeXen or the like seem like the type of franchises that this would fit more neatly into (not the futuristic guns, but fiddly gadget-type stuff).

Or going outside of id, Deus Ex or System Shock.

Again, though, there's nothing to say that a Doom game that included alt-fires and/or gadgets, couldn't also feel like a faithful successor to the classic Doom games. For instance, I'm still enjoying Brutal Doom quite a bit.

[Koko Ricky]

I love the SHIT out of Brutal Doom. It's hard to resist playing wads without it. Doom does have the unique charm of being a futuristic shooter with primarily archaic weapons, and that will indeed be a difficult thing to translate to Doom 4. id Software will have to find a balance between maintaining the brutality of big, bulky, straightforward weapons and adding features that don't feel needlessly gimmicky or overly "future-y." There are trends in contemporary weapon design that I don't think would feel too crazy in the new game.