What are you playing now?

[seed]

2 hours ago, CyberDreams said:

If your having difficulty playing something you could just lower the difficulty. That is why people implement them in their maps. I used to think that i had to just beat everything on UV. I haven't even played half of the so called classics "legitimately" so to speak, as i just save scummed through a lot of 'em so i'm going back and replaying them on difficulties that i can handle. In the end it's all about having fun right? 

 

Also, there are some great Doom 1 WAD's (single level WAD's too) so i would recommend checking out a few WAD's from every year, not just Doom II ones or newer ones. BTW i have found that a lot of newer WAD's tend to put up a far greater challenge then some of the older ones do, although that's not always true. Just a few thoughts ;)

 

Problem is, some people seem to think they're missing something if they lower the difficulty, and truth be said it sometimes isn't easy to balance the gameplay for other difficulties than what the mapper plays on, so there might be some truth in their claims, especially if it's the kind of balancing that results in severe removal of enemies and emptying the maps.

 

But forcing yourself to play on a difficulty you can't handle will get you nowhere, you will simply not be able to have any fun, because you're way over your head. And some simply refuse to lower the difficulty when it stops working for them, which can result in silly complaints that "it's unfair/it's BS/it takes no real skill/whatever-you-want here". But to be fair, just like in the case of the others, there might actually be some truth in some of their claims.

Edited February 21, 2019 by seed

[4everDoomed]

I always felt that UV was the perfect difficulty and I won't play any easier modes (at least in the original Doom episodes). As I mentioned in another topic, I grew up with Final Doom on the PSX,- there were no possibilities to save ingame. If you die, start again. That was horrible annoying but also teasing. You automatically develop strategies to survive, try looking out for traps, pits, better routes or spare better ammo for a more appropriate situation, because you don't want to see the players start screen hundreds of times, which I saw enough of in my life ;-)  

Even if you know those levels well, you might get squished at certain points and that makes it still interesting. 

 

What's the point in playing ITYTD ? You'll miss all the nice action. 

 

 

 

[seed]

40 minutes ago, 4everDoomed said:

I always felt that UV was the perfect difficulty and I won't play any easier modes (at least in the original Doom episodes). As I mentioned in another topic, I grew up with Final Doom on the PSX,- there were no possibilities to save ingame. If you die, start again. That was horrible annoying but also teasing. You automatically develop strategies to survive, try looking out for traps, pits, better routes or spare better ammo for a more appropriate situation, because you don't want to see the players start screen hundreds of times, which I saw enough of in my life ;-)  

Even if you know those levels well, you might get squished at certain points and that makes it still interesting. 

 

What's the point in playing ITYTD ? You'll miss all the nice action. 

 

This may be true for the IWADs and megawads that came in the nineties, but nowadays UV is mostly targeted at veterans and very skilled players. The difficulty has increased exponentially with time, so UV being the "one way to get the full experience" is no longer really true. HMP and lower most definitely provide enough action and challenge.

[Lila Feuer]

5 minutes ago, seed said:

nowadays UV is mostly targeted at veterans and very skilled players.

Yeah the skill ceiling has raised significantly over the past 6-7 years or so. Which is about how much I'm outta the loop with modern megawads. So just to make things interesting, it's why I chose to play the newest megawad there was (that made notable airwaves) with Eviternity, on UV without fear, and take away mid-level saving, just to see how good I actually am in the current climate of Dooming.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Lila Feuer

[seed]

41 minutes ago, Lila Feuer said:

Yeah the skill ceiling has raised significantly over the past 6-7 years or so. Which is about how much I'm outta the loop with modern megawads. So just to make things interesting, it's why I chose to play the newest megawad there was (that made notable airwaves) with Eviternity, on UV without fear, and take away mid-level saving, just to see how good I actually am in the current climate of Dooming.

 

Thing is, Eviternity is not one of the more hard-as-balls megawads, despite being challenging on its own. I played it on HMP but supposedly it didn't differ much from UV. The final product had the difficulties rebalanced from what ukiro told me.

 

If challenge is what you want, try out something like Stardate 20x7, AA, Valiant, Newgothic Movement 2, and others :D .

[Lila Feuer]

@seed I'm def gon get some skillsaw in my life at some point, probably do Vanguard first since I think it was the first major release? Then Lunatic, Valiant, and Ancient Aliens. Anything else?

[seed]

1 minute ago, Lila Feuer said:

@seed I'm def gon get some skillsaw in my life at some point, probably do Vanguard first since I think it was the first major release? Then Lunatic, Valiant, and Ancient Aliens. Anything else?

 

Hanging Gardens, also by him. Saw BMD play that one, I'm yet to get to it myself.

 

It's just one, gorgeous slaughter map though. It was originally supposed to be an episode but skillsaw abandoned the project ;_; . With the recent revival of Sunder, DVII, and so on, maybe it will get the same treatment one day. A man can dream.

 

Depends on what you understand by major, but yeah, Vanguard pretty much anticipated the future. Many ideas and even maps have later been recycled in Valiant. Lunatic also laid the groundwork for its lunar episode too.

 

Other suggestions... other than the Slaughterfests, Combat Shocks, Deus Vults, Sunlust... no.

[Kira]

Just finished yet another run through Doom 2, saveless pistol starts etc etc. Really enjoyed my time here, and I guess I'm finally really liking Sandy Petersen's style now. I actually had a good chunk of his maps as favorites since forever, but was lukewarm to his overall output. Now this is a thing of the past.

 

Might play No Rest For The Living now, since I've never played it seriously, for no reason.

[galileo31dos01]

58 minutes ago, Lila Feuer said:

@seed I'm def gon get some skillsaw in my life at some point, probably do Vanguard first since I think it was the first major release? Then Lunatic, Valiant, and Ancient Aliens. Anything else?

 

If you are curious enough, check a much earlier release called Sector 666 from 1998. 

[ReaperAA]

8 hours ago, seed said:

Problem is, some people seem to think they're missing something if they lower the difficulty

 

I had this issue too where I would only want to play on UV due to the feeling of missing something. Thankfully I don't have this feeling anymore at HMP and HNTR difficulties. But I still get this feeling when playing at ITYTD.

 

1 hour ago, seed said:

 

Thing is, Eviternity is not one of the more hard-as-balls megawads, despite being challenging on its own. I played it on HMP but supposedly it didn't differ much from UV.

 

Agreed. I most play WADs at HMP or HNTR but currently playing Eviternity at UV as it is not so hard. So far I am at map 31 and the only map I found moderately hard was map 14. Rest of them felt like I could even UV-pistol start them with a little bit practice.

Infact a few weeks ago I played Ancient Aliens on HMP and that was harder than Eviternity on UV.

[ReaperAA]

13 minutes ago, galileo31dos01 said:

 

If you are curious enough, check a much earlier release called Sector 666 from 1998. 

 

There is also Aeternum from 2007 made by Skillsaw.

 

Though speaking personally, the only Skillsaw stuff I have ever played are his 2 megawads (Valiant and Anclient Aliens)

[seed]

10 minutes ago, ReaperAA said:

Infact a few weeks ago I played Ancient Aliens on HMP and that was harder than Eviternity on UV.

 

I played AA and Valiant on UV. Or at least I'm sure I did so with AA, Valiant not so much, will have to double-check my review for it.

 

It obviously is more difficult as it is targeted primarily at veterans and is all-gameplay, as skillsaw maps/megawads usually are, so regular players might struggle with it.

[ReaperAA]

I remember back in 2015-ish trying to play Valiant on UV (and BTW Valiant was my very first non-commercial AND non-TWID megawad). Needless to say I got my ass handed to me as I was much less skilled back then. Then I toned down the difficuly to HNTR and I actually started to enjoy it much more.

 

It was the turning point for my "only play on UV" mentality as I didn't feel like I was missing anything. Infact it was the best decision I made.

[seed]

5 minutes ago, ReaperAA said:

I remember back in 2015-ish trying to play Valiant on UV (and BTW Valiant was my very first non-commercial AND non-TWID megawad). Needless to say I got my ass handed to me as I was much less skilled back then. Then I toned down the difficuly to HNTR and I actually started to enjoy it much more.

 

It was the turning point for my "only play on UV" mentality as I didn't feel like I was missing anything. Infact it was the best decision I made.

 

By the way, talking about AA, one thing I really liked about it was that it tells you from the very first map what you should expect. This is why on UV you have a Cyberdemon acting as a turret on MAP01. It was meant to send a message: "This is only a glimpse into what's to come. If you feel you're not up to it, please consider quitting after this map." Skillsaw himself said that much, though his wording sounded a bit obnoxiously elitist to me. Or I might be reading into something that really isn't there but whatever.

 

Doing things like this on the very first map prepares the player for what lies ahead in addition to preventing potential silly complaints along the lines of "it was fun in the beginning, but it turned to shit later on, with unfair, luck based combat".

[ReaperAA]

4 minutes ago, seed said:

It was meant to send a message: "This is only a glimpse into what's to come. If you feel you're not up to it, please consider quitting after this map."

 

Pretty much what I felt when I started playing AA on HMP (Cyberdemon is on HMP as well). But I did manage to get though it without much issue (though obviously relying on save-scumming)

[Lila Feuer]

2 hours ago, galileo31dos01 said:

 

If you are curious enough, check a much earlier release called Sector 666 from 1998. 

Yes, I was surprised to find out that it was him, it's a classic set, with really nice lighting and Mark Klem music. Not too challenging but then again a fun romp through Doom is never a bad thing.

[Deadwing]

Evilternity is definitely easier than AA and Valiant. It's somewhat harder than BTSX-E1, but tbh it's also a lot more dynamic regarding monster placement and setpieces (Dragonfly's team did a really good job of capturing the many different Doom elements to create a really cohesive and variated experience)

[Kira]

3 hours ago, Kira said:

Might play No Rest For The Living now, since I've never played it seriously, for no reason.

I want to kick myself for not doing it earlier. This is pretty good.

 

I reached the secret level so far.

[Lila Feuer]

@Kira Minus the last map which is garbage, it's a very tight set overall. Like a mini Doom II, but more consistent in quality.

[CyberDreams]

10 hours ago, seed said:

 

Thing is, Eviternity is not one of the more hard-as-balls megawads, despite being challenging on its own. I played it on HMP but supposedly it didn't differ much from UV. The final product had the difficulties rebalanced from what ukiro told me.

 

If challenge is what you want, try out something like Stardate 20x7, AA, Valiant, Newgothic Movement 2, and others :D .

 

I noticed that as well as i replayed just the first chapter of Eviternity on HMP after completing it on UV and i only noticed minor differences. But whilst playing on UV, the rest of the chapters were quite hard for me as i still haven't learned how to deal with Archviles & Revenants but then again HMP did feel easy in certain spots for me but then challenging in others. TBH i haven't played a lot of Doom 2 (definitely don't know the levels that well) so that's why i'm pretty bad with Archviles and Revenants. I should probably go through it again.

 

About slaughter style maps: I'm not too keen of slaughter style play but i then again i haven't really played many either so i've never actually learned how to "deal" with them so to speak as i know that you approach slaughter style play differently. Who knows, i might end up liking it after some practice.

 

Alright enough of me rambling and going way off topic. I guess i'm going to be playing Doom 2 now.

[Lila Feuer]

2 hours ago, CyberDreams said:

TBH i haven't played a lot of Doom 2 (definitely don't know the levels that well) so that's why i'm pretty bad with Archviles and Revenants. I should probably go through it again.

 

About slaughter style maps: I'm not too keen of slaughter style play but i then again i haven't really played many either so i've never actually learned how to "deal" with them so to speak as i know that you approach slaughter style play differently. Who knows, i might end up liking it after some practice.

I'd recommend Plutonia if you want to learn all about Revenants. ;)

Archvile felt underutilized in Doom II, so you'd probably also be better off in Plutonia with that too.

I'd also suggest that you try Hell Revealed 1 and 2 as a proper introduction to slaughtermaps and see if you like it or not. Since you're not very experienced I'd say to do HMP on your first go (but I did UV because I'm a maniac). The first 11 maps or so for each are mostly normal Doom levels but harder (very hard in HR2) so it takes a little bit to get to the meat of the formula but it's established by MAP12 and onward, then it just stays that way until the very end.

[seed]

1 hour ago, Lila Feuer said:

I'd recommend Plutonia if you want to learn all about Revenants. ;)

Archvile felt underutilized in Doom II, so you'd probably also be better off in Plutonia with that too.

I'd also suggest that you try Hell Revealed 1 and 2 as a proper introduction to slaughtermaps and see if you like it or not. Since you're not very experienced I'd say to do HMP on your first go (but I did UV because I'm a maniac). The first 11 maps or so for each are mostly normal Doom levels but harder (very hard in HR2) so it takes a little bit to get to the meat of the formula but it's established by MAP12 and onward, then it just stays that way until the very end.

 

Yeah, Plutonia is the better candidate here as it is the most difficult IWAD. It also makes better use of the expanded bestiary as Doom 2 generally acted more like an introduction to them in this regard, so some monsters ended up underused, such as AVs.

 

As about HR, I played the original on UV and I'm pretty sure I did the same with the sequel, but my point here is: Play the original from start to finish but the sequel only from MAP12 or 15 onward. It's painfully mediocre. In fact, since it was made by a different team, it looks like they understood very little of what made the original great. Most of it is inferior to the original from all points of view.

 

Also play the classic Alien Vendetta :). By the way @CyberDreams, since I review everything I play (provided I can find it on the Downloads page), I've written in depth reviews for these megawads.

Edited February 22, 2019 by seed

[Kira]

1 hour ago, Lila Feuer said:

I'd also suggest that you try Hell Revealed 1 and 2 as a proper introduction to slaughtermaps and see if you like it or not. Since you're not very experienced I'd say to do HMP on your first go (but I did UV because I'm a maniac). The first 11 maps or so for each are mostly normal Doom levels but harder (very hard in HR2) so it takes a little bit to get to the meat of the formula but it's established by MAP12 and onward, then it just stays that way until the very end.

Just a word that while HR will make you way better at Doom 2, I'd argue you are better off trying more streamlined beginner slaughtermaps than HR nowadays. Skillsaw's late maps in something like Vanguard are way more accessible despite the numbers for instance, or Rush until the final map which is an entirely different beast. After these one could jump on Newgothic, phmlSPD or even Scythe or Speed of Doom.

 

HR starts becoming actually hard near map13 and well, its start was probably too much for the less obstinate player back then, and still is for beginners now. Thankfully @CyberDreams is not shy of lowering the difficulty on hard wads indeed, so half of the job to not get too frustrated and rage quit is done haha.

 

Continuous may trivialize a lot of HR, though I don't recommend that if you want to learn, or you could do that to prep your pistol start runs on your current difficulty. Use saves to practice the parts that wall you before doing "legitimate runs" I guess. Saveless pistol start is really good if you want to get better "fast", but it can be very frustrating when you are starting out, so anything goes to learn the maps.

 

Anyway have fun, slaughter is justice.

[seed]

3 minutes ago, Kira said:

Newgothic

 

Maybe the original, as inconsistent as it can get sometimes, but the sequel is in no way as accessible as the original is. It doesn't have difficulty settings either. The Scythes are a must play tho :).

[Kira]

Just now, seed said:

 

Maybe the original, as inconsistent as it can get sometimes, but the sequel is in no way as accessible as the original is. It doesn't have difficulty settings either. The Scythes are a must play tho :).

Yes I remember the 2nd one being brutal in comparison. The reason I name Newgothic is that I assume one will work their way up to UV on the previous wads, and by that time they'd have the methodology to learn "hard" maps, like save practice, routing, etc. I should have been clearer :)

[seed]

3 minutes ago, Kira said:

Yes I remember the 2nd one being brutal in comparison. The reason I name Newgothic is that I assume one will work their way up to UV on the previous wads, and by that time they'd have the methodology to learn "hard" maps, like save practice, routing, etc. I should have been clearer :)

 

Yeah, I agree with that. Just wanted to make it clear that the sequel is exponentially more difficult than the original (MAP02 is easily the most rage-inducing map in the entire package), so that he won't expect it to be just "more of the same", because it most definitely isn't.

Edited February 22, 2019 by seed

[CyberDreams]

@Lila Feuer@seed@Kira I really appreciate all of the tips that you all have given me! I actually started Plutonia yesterday and holy shit, it really kicked my ass. I guess i rarely played it before so even the first map "Congo" just killed me, even when i switched to HMP. So i've actually decided to just go through the whole Doom series all over again starting with The Ultimate Doom. I do know that Episode 4 (Thy Flesh Consumed) is a lot harder since it was released after Doom 2 so that one might be more of a challenge as i'm not too familiar with it.

 

I'm not used to doing pistol starts either so i'm not sure if i should do them or not. I'm not really sure how to do them besides warping to the desired level. I'll be using GLBoom+ since it has Vsync and i don't experience screen tearing although i do experience some slight mouse delay which i still have to try to fix, probably by going into the Nvidia Control Panel and messing with the "Maximum Pre-Rendered Frames", but that's another issue altogether. 

 

I almost felt like starting a whole new topic since i've gone so offtrack from the topic at hand but in a way i guess this is still on topic as i was trying to figure out what to play as well as how to approach certain map/play styles. So again, thanks for everybody's help/tips!

 

(if a Moderator/Admin feels this needs to be moved to another area then please, feel free to do what you want with this)

[Lila Feuer]

@CyberDreams Warping to a map is indeed correct way to pistol start. If you use a source port that allows you to kill your player when you get to the next level in order to reset your arsenal (or you got a RL and ammo left for it to KYS), that'll work too heh.

Also I believe I've heard that GL/PrBoom+ has some kind of strange mouse input lag? I haven't used it in ages so I could be wrong.

Edited February 23, 2019 by Lila Feuer

[galileo31dos01]

46 minutes ago, CyberDreams said:

I'm not really sure how to do them besides warping to the desired level.

 

In case you want to restart a map to play from scratch, the key "Home" is the default in PR/GLBoom+. In Crispy Doom, you'll have to bind a key from the config executable. IIRC in (G)ZDoom there's no such function so you can only warp. 

[Kira]

@CyberDreams Luckily if you use GlBoom+ you just have to hit the Home key to pistol start any map!

Edit: Missed on galileo's post, oops. Will you forgive me one day?

 

Plutonia is indeed unfriendly if you are now playing "seriously", but the difficulty is pretty much stable for the whole game, so once you are in the flow it's about consolidating what you have learned.

 

Replaying the whole series this way is indeed a good idea if you want to start small, and yes Thy Flesh Consumed has 2/3 levels that will teach you :)))). Master Levels will have one or two maps that will challenge you perhaps.

 

Here I'm still going through No Rest for the Living (another one you might want to pistol start through), map05 was a lot of fun! And map06 is very promising from what I've seen before an archvile told me to stop playing hehe.

Edited February 23, 2019 by Kira