Plutonia Revisited Community Project: Released!

[Joshy]

Okay, it's all done! :D (fingers crossed everything is in order :3)

Many thanks to all who made this project possible. Now go on doomers and enjoy this community megawad! :-)

EDIT: Deleted mediafire download link

[PRIMEVAL]

Bada-bing!

Hah, I didn't know there was a level called Wicked Garden. Must have looked over that before, named my Map08 track "Wicked Garden," which is a General MIDI remake of an older song of mine back in 2006.

Gonna let the good times roll :)

[TendaMonsta]

I'm lightin' one up for everyone who contributed to this project and made it really nice. I enjoyed testing it and playing it on skulltag servers and I really think this wad is the shit.

Now download, load up your port of choice (unless you're going straight vanilla) and kick some ass.

[DooMer 4ever]

Nice! I already played this through at the testing stage, but might well play it again very soon as I enjoyed this a lot, and actually more than Plutonia 2.

Where's the download link for the demopack though?

[Phobus]

Reading through PRCPINFO, I think there's one bit thats wrong. Section [3] says that ports without DeHackEd support (such as Doom95) won't be able to play the new music... I'm fairly certain that the music here is included as replacements for the old music and would therefore not need DeHackEd in order to be played. Saying that, this section also says its copied from Plutonia 2's equivilant text file, so maybe it was wrong there first.

Otherwise it all looks good to me.

[TendaMonsta]

DooMer 4ever said:
Where's the download link for the demopack though? [/B]

There is no demo pack (unless there was one in the making and I didn't know it) yet. I'm pretty sure other speedrunners would be willing to make a demo pack or at least get some UV-Max demos going.

Don't be surprised if there is a thread made for speedrunning the Final PRCP because there was already a thread while this was still in publictesting.

[C30N9]

I completed the megawad (well not really, MAP11 was skipped). I think I said this before but this megawad IS a Plutonia sequel. I felt it was like Dario and Milo created the same part of Final Doom but with new music and focusing on more detail. Maps are simple, small and hard (fun) just as Plutonia.

Thought about talking about maps I enjoyed:

MAP01
MAP02
MAP06
MAP07
MAP08
MAP09
MAP17
MAP18
MAP24
MAP26
MAP27
MAP28

[Uncle 80]

This mapset looks very good judging from the first 30 minutes of playing/random idclev'ing to check some maps out. Glad to see that "speed", my favourite map of the original Plutionia has finally gotten a worthy sequel. Seems every bit as fun and addictive as its previous incarnation.

thumbs up!

[Xaser]

Hmm, the invisible bridge in MAP08 is broken:
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/1147/screenshotdoom201104141.png
Though the VPO issues in the start room seem to be fixed. that's a plus. ;)

Phobus said:

Reading through PRCPINFO, I think there's one bit thats wrong. Section [3] says that ports without DeHackEd support (such as Doom95) won't be able to play the new music... I'm fairly certain that the music here is included as replacements for the old music and would therefore not need DeHackEd in order to be played. Saying that, this section also says its copied from Plutonia 2's equivilant text file, so maybe it was wrong there first.

Must be a leftover from the Plutonia 2 text. The statement is true for PL2 but not for PRCP.

Anyhow, I'll give it another proper run soon, for funsies, not nitpicks. :P

[franckFRAG]

Xaser said:

Hmm, the invisible bridge in MAP08 is broken:
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/1147/screenshotdoom201104141.png
Though the VPO issues in the start room seem to be fixed. that's a plus. ;)

Oo Wow, I have never seen this bug before, on Boom, Chocolate Doom and Zdoom especially. Maybe I have make a bad manipulation by sending my last version of my map.

edit, I retested my last version, and I don't understand, I don't find bugs for the bridge, whether it's on Chocolate Doom, Gl and PrBoom ports :o

On what is port which you played?

[Xaser]

I get it on both Chocolate Doom and ZDoom. Are you playing the version in PRCP.wad? Something may have changed since you submitted it, for all we know. ;)

[hawkwind]

I can confirm this bug with map 08. The most simplest of fixes I have found is to just delete lines 458, 463, 460 and 461 and rebuild nodes. Sector 6 could be enhanced further by making it an instant rising/lowering platform.

This bug occurs also with eternity, prboom+ and prboom202. This obviously is a software bug.

UPDATE ... found the cause. Looking at map03 of plutonia, you will notice that sectors 132, 61 and 51 have the same floor height, whereas with prcp map 08 sector 65 has a different floor height to sectors 6 and 4. Apparently software ports don't like this difference. My above fix still applies though ( or change the floor height of sector 65 to -80 and add an extra stair ) .

[franckFRAG]

Ok, the bug seems to have appeared after the compilation, thus because of the nodebuilder different from mine. I use zdbsp.exe as nodebuilder, which seems to me the most compatible. (It is apparently disadvised to use ZenNode for the Vanilla format).

hawkwind said:

found the cause. Looking at map03 of plutonia, you will notice that sectors 132, 61 and 51 have the same floor height, whereas with prcp map 08 sector 65 has a different floor height to sectors 6 and 4. Apparently software ports don't like this difference. My above fix still applies though ( or change the floor height of sector 65 to -80 and add an extra stair ) .

Added a an extra stair would risk of create another VPO :s if the door is opened (the sector 20), we reach the limit 130 visplanes in a certain angle.

[hawkwind]

@FranckFRAG - You're right about the nodesbuilder. I just rebuilt the nodes using glbsp2.24 without modifying the map and the problem was fixed.

[Belial]

franckFRAG said:

(It is apparently disadvised to use ZenNode for the Vanilla format).

On the contrary, it's probably the best possible choice even considering the self-referencing sector quirk.

When I was fixing VPOs just a rebuild with ZenNode would bring down the visplane counts by 5-10.

[Xaser]

I always thought it was the other way around -- avoid using ZDBSP for vanilla maps and opt for something like ZenNode instead, since the former isn't optimized for vanilla node building.

[Phobus]

DoomBuilder 1.67 (my preferred version for my XP machine)flat-out refuses to let me try to build nodes for a Doom2 format map with anything that isn't bsp-w32.exe I think. It definitely doesn't like zdbsp.exe.

EDIT: Massive satisfaction at spelling 'definitely' correctly and not getting censored to show what an English n00b I am.

[hawkwind]

Another bug still present in map 08 ...

The back-sides of lines 1568 and 960 still need lower textures, since the door that line 1568 lowers, lowers to a floor (ceiling) height of -88, not -80, which sector 106 and 237 have as their floor heights.

[franckFRAG]

hawkwind said:

Another bug still present in map 08 ...

The back-sides of lines 1568 and 960 still need lower textures, since the door that line 1568 lowers, lowers to a floor (ceiling) height of -88, not -80, which sector 106 and 237 have as their floor heights.

Oh shit sorry :s It seemed to me that I noticed this bug, and I forgot of it corrected. :/ I can't modified the height of the door, because the door joined with the sector which surround Hell Knights. I can just to add the missing textures..

edit, check your PM Hawkwind.

[Joshy]

D: The nodebuilder on my doombuilder is zennode vanilla optimised. I'm hoping that wasn't the reason for the stuffing up while I compiled it... Anyway, @FranckFRAG, I assume you'll send over a fixed version of it when you have it fixed?

A reupload wouldn't hurt anyway (what should I do to reupload it? AFAIK, I have to add something to the txtfile to ask for replacing the original?). And I'll fix the txtfile too... curse my lacking vanilla doom knowledge! :P

[tatsurd-cacocaco]

Joshy, I have a question.

On April 2

tatsurd-cacocaco said:

I wanted to tweak it (map 20) after playing all maps of PRCP test version and watching FDA demos. I sent the final version to Joshy.

Please check PM, and please accept it if there is no problem.

However, the final version is not used in PRCP of the current version. Did you reject it for any reasons or just forget it? If you reupload PRCP, please consider again whether you accept it or not.

[Mechadon]

Pardon my ignorance here, but what exactly is the difference between using ZDBSP and ZenNode for building nodes in a vanilla map? In my experience, ZDBSP has worked for pretty much any sort of map (although my vanilla mapping experience is pretty limited). In particular it's the one nodebuilder that seems to handle self-referencing sectors the best, which may be why the bridge in MAP08 is now busted.

I'm just curious because what sort of optimizations for vanilla maps there are in other nodebuilders.

[franckFRAG]

It's an interesting question, a certain moment, I used ZenNode so that textures on boom remain aligned correctly. But I don't use any more since I created a big and complex map, with tiny sector, Doom Builder crashed when I saved it. I thus changed the nodebuilder by the other one, with zdbsp, the map saved with no problem at all.
But for little maps, I think to reuse ZenNode, especially for the alignments of texture. And too for vanilla maps this time, of course :)

@ Joshy, I send a version fixed to Hawkwind ;)

[Xaser]

Mechadon said:

Pardon my ignorance here, but what exactly is the difference between using ZDBSP and ZenNode for building nodes in a vanilla map?

To be fair, my statement is mostly based on an assumption I've carried for years. I swear I recall an old discussion about this that says something along the lines of that, but I can't seem to find it. This was ages ago, anyway, so even it's plausible that ZDBSP works much better than it used to (assuming my memory is even correct). For whatever reason, I still shy away from using it for vanilla maps, but it very well could be paranoia at this point. :P

[esselfortium]

Based on tests Nuxius and I did with Chocorenderlimits relatively early on in KDiKDiZD development, we found that BSP and ZenNode both gave far more vanilla-friendly nodes than ZDBSP. Particularly when their optimization parameters were used, both of them resulted in noticeably fewer segs and visplanes than we were otherwise getting, thus allowing us a bit more breathing room. ZenNode gives a few more segs than BSP, but fewer visplanes, which makes it arguably the safer choice for vanilla mapping.

[Mechadon]

Ah, so it has more to do with being able to squeeze out more segs and visplanes then. That makes sense because I wasn't sure what other sort of optimization there could have been as far as the vanilla map format is concerned. Too bad I didn't know about that earlier, I'm sure I could have used that extra bit of room while working on my map for this :P. I'll definitely keep ZenNode in mind for any future vanilla maps I make, although it still is really finicky when it comes to self-referencing sectors.

Sorry for going off-subject here. Continue on!

[esselfortium]

They also support blockmap compression, which allows for maps to become quite a bit larger in scale than they otherwise would be able to before they break vanilla. I'm not sure if other nodebuilders also have that, though, so :P

[MTrop]

It makes sense that ZDBSP isn't really optimized for Visplanes. Its primary use is in a flavor of Doom that doesn't have a VP or Seg limit.

I used ZenNode for my maps. I usually use ZDBSP, but I wasn't sure that it would be compatible for Vanilla. I think Doom Builder 2 sets those as the defaults out-of-the-box, anyway.

[Joshy]

Okay! Fixed the txtinfo stuff. Got map08 and checked it thrice, and works just fine. Updated Map20 per tatsurd's request (sorry for missing it before, I thought I had all the updates in) and have uploaded it to the idgames archive for real. Will post the link once it appears.

Sorry for the inconveniences I've caused but still, once again thanks for all of your co-operation in making this project possible. :-)

[Guest]

So all you people responsible for this project, you have it all totally wrong. I mean, seriously, sequels are supposed to get progressively worse with each release. Worse, dammit! Not better.

Seriously, this has been a fantastic mapset, this is Plutonia 3 in every way except the name. Thanks heaps everyone involved in this awesome mapset.

Also, I don't know if this is the place to report bugs, n' sorry if someone has already reported this, but on map 19, Sectors 336, 337, 339 and 341 have Effect 7 (Damage -2 or 5% health), where they all have a stone floor and not the damaging red lava that is next to them, so this effect should be removed. Have a look and you will see what I mean.
-Same map, linedefs 5600 and 5605 and several surrounding linedefs could use a little neatening up in terms of alignment.