Things about Doom you just found out

[LigH]

If an algorithm searches for the best matching color in a list with some identical colors, then it will probably find the first one as the best matching, and won't consider the second (identical with the first) because it doesn't match better (just as good as the first).

[Gez]

Doomkid said:

So does this basically mean that, while an editor will display a "bung" color like what Gez posted, the actual engine will not display it this way in-game? (EDIT: Thanks Da Werecat for answering!)

The point is that the source graphics use color index 247.

So then you look at the colormap, and you see that index 247 isn't used by itself. So what happens is this: graphic use color 247, this is remapped to color 0 by COLORMAP, so index 247 is never used by sprites or textures in game. Until there, it's okay.

The problem happens on the next step. Since index 247 is never used, you can remap it to a different color and then use it for a better colormap! Yes, but then beware that the colormap for index 247 must then still remap to 0 even if the base color might now be a deep red or whatever other color you needed. Otherwise, you can have some surprises.

[esselfortium]

jmickle66666666 said:

I'm not entirely sure about the exact working of the fuzz effect, so maybe someone else could explain why it doesn't work correctly.

The fuzz effect is dependent on the assumption that each index in colormap 0 has the same color as that index in the palette itself. If I recall correctly, fuzz pseudorandomly picks darker colormap entries to draw in place of the original color, so if palette index #50 is used for some pixels behind a spectre, it's going to use the second/third/etc colormaps for index #50 to color it in. If index #50 isn't the same color in both the palette and the colormap, spectre fuzz draws the wrong color and it looks glitchy.

[The_MártonJános]

Beware of wads with sprites that aren't using 247.

[Linguica]

LigH said:

If an algorithm searches for the best matching color in a list with some identical colors, then it will probably find the first one as the best matching, and won't consider the second (identical with the first) because it doesn't match better (just as good as the first).

This is exactly right. When generating the COLORMAP, id used a utility that did the following:

for each colormap level, do the following for each palette index:

* take RGB values of current palette index
* darken RGB values by x/32nds to find RGB values we want
* loop through palette and determine difference between the RGB we want to represent and the RGB of the current palette index
* if difference is smaller than smallest difference we've seen, hold on to the index value

So when you have 2 identical colors, the utility will loop through the palette, find a match for the first color, and when it gets to the second color it will ignore it because it already has a match that's equally as good.

[Darch]

Just found out: not the option itself, but the fun of it: using Boom's game speed setup to 10% faster then normal along with fast paced wads.

[scifista42]

Darch said:

Just found out: not the option itself, but the fun of it: using Boom's game speed setup to 10% faster then normal along with fast paced wads.

Want more of that fun? Play Turbocharged Arcade and its sequel!

[Linguica]

jmickle66666666 said:

ah but the point is, when the engine looks up colour 247 in the colormap, even at full bright, it won't return it. the duplicate colors /never/ show up in the colormap.

However, they are way too many issues for this to be used in any meaningful way. Essel pointed out that even in vanilla, the spectre fuzz effect won't work correctly using this technique

Why are there too many issues for this to be used? You just need to find if there are any colors that 1) are a duplicate of another color, and 2) are never used in any graphics displayed directly from the PLAYPAL instead of the COLORMAP, e.g., the titlepic, menu graphics, hud graphics, etc.

This graphic by Soundblock is relevant:



0/247 (pure black)
4/168/208/224 (pure white)
45/190 (dark red)
47/191 (dark red)
207/240 (dark blue)

(13/236 are NOT identical though.)

Anyways, so comparing these against the lists, all of the identical colors are used somewhere in a graphic. 168, 208, 240, and 247 are never used in the colormap and are only barely used in graphics, so we should check if any of those graphics are ones that are drawn directly from the PLAYPAL.

[jmickle66666666]

Drawing from the playpal is just one of the issues, the biggest one overall is the fact that zdoom and opengl ports don't use the colormap either (zdoom only partially does), so using this technique not only has issues with vanilla/boom because of spectres, but also most modern ports.

[Linguica]

If you fired the double shotgun with only 2 or 3 shells left, the game was originally intended to show the player beginning to open the double shotgun before realizing he didn't have enough shells, closing it again, and switching weapons. The code to do this, however, was commented out. (This is also why there are two unused frames in Dehacked for the super shotgun.)

[Deleted_Account]

On Doom 2 map 01, Entryway, I just noticed MODWALL2 in the outside area behind the player start.

[The_MártonJános]

Piper Maru said:

On Doom 2 map 01, Entryway, I just noticed MODWALL2 in the outside area behind the player start.

No mention, I'm still upset they didn't texture the chainsaw peak's outer side.

[scifista42]

Cell said:

No mention, I'm still upset they didn't texture the chainsaw peak's outer side.

Id mappers didn't feel a need to put textures to unobservable areas - well, maybe just Romero did, but Petersen and McGee didn't. You can observe the same thing in the exit room in MAP22 from Doom 2. The room's sides are untextured from outside, which you can only view with no-clipping.

[Platinum Shell]

Linguica said:

shotgun switch

I gotta say, I wish the original Doom had a function or check of sorts that allowed you to switch from the super shotgun to another weapon if you put in the command before the muzzle flash ended, allowing you to reload at a more opportune time. Like a super shotgun and pistol combo. But that would make an already somewhat OP weapon even more OP.

[Olroda]

Linguica said:

This is also why there are two unused frames in Dehacked for the super shotgun.

I've wondered about those too. I figured that they were part of a previous, longer shooting animation, but it didn't look right when I tested it. Thanks for clearing that up with another informative .gif!

[Avoozl]

Linguica said:

If you fired the double shotgun with only 2 or 3 shells left, the game was originally intended to show the player beginning to open the double shotgun before realizing he didn't have enough shells, closing it again, and switching weapons. The code to do this, however, was commented out. (This is also why there are two unused frames in Dehacked for the super shotgun.)

http://i.imgur.com/aMiA3AD.gif

That's actually quite neat, it's a shame they dropped it.

[The_MártonJános]

scifista42 said:

Id mappers didn't feel a need to put textures to unobservable areas - well, maybe just Romero did, but Petersen and McGee didn't. You can observe the same thing in the exit room in MAP22 from Doom 2. The room's sides are untextured from outside, which you can only view with no-clipping.

Hm, perhaps I'm the one who feels consequently concerned about all this shit and so whether ambushes and other inaccessible areas are textured perfectly.

[40oz]

Dubbapost

[40oz]

The above video is a comparison vid of the Ferrari 328 and Ferrari Testarossa. The 328 is shown first. I remember in a doomworld thread many years ago discussing the sources of dooms soundfx, one guy mentioned that the baron of hells wakeup sound sounded like a sports car racing down a highway.

Masters of Doom says John Carmack bought a 328 while working at id software. I think it sounds pretty close! I suspect the death sound comes from the Ferrari revving the engine too.

[Olroda]

It would be really funny if the above would turn out to be true.

In other news, I learned last night that the pump section of the shotgun sound
isn't in synchronisation with the actual "click-clack" motion.
...It comes quite close, though.

[Ishtar's Gate]

Demons have these tiny little orange thingies on their legs.

[Marnetmar]

40oz said:

The above video is a comparison vid of the Ferrari 328 and Ferrari Testarossa. The 328 is shown first. I remember in a doomworld thread many years ago discussing the sources of dooms soundfx, one guy mentioned that the baron of hells wakeup sound sounded like a sports car racing down a highway.

Masters of Doom says John Carmack bought a 328 while working at id software. I think it sounds pretty close! I suspect the death sound comes from the Ferrari revving the engine too.

Someone should ask the guy doing the high-res sounds project. If anyone knows the original source of the sound, it's probably him.

[Jaxxoon R]

Except the Baron's sight sound is one of the few bits not recreated in the sound pack. Meaning he couldn't find the original source.

Considering this, it's likely it is sampled from Carmack's car.

[sheridan]

Ishtar's Gate said:

Demons have these tiny little orange thingies on their legs.

Yeah and they forgot to draw them in a few frames. Kinda like the Hell Knight and his brown-but-sometimes-grey hooves.

[Salt-Man Z]

I get motion-sick if I watch my own demos for too long.

[Avoozl]

Was there any sources saying that the orange things were supposed to be there?

[Marnetmar]

Doom 3 was supposed to have an automap

[Marcaek]

Marnetmar said:

Doom 3 was supposed to have an automap

[Blastfrog]

Avoozl said:

Was there any sources saying that the orange things were supposed to be there?

It was quite a deliberate addition. They were featured on all the frames except the ones that weren't updated from the alpha sprites: attacking and pain.

Marcaek said:

[Laugh harder - YT vid]

I don't see why they couldn't have done one, it's not like it had to pull from map geometry. Just get the player's current coordinates and plop him on a pre-drawn 2D map based on that.

[Da Werecat]

Dead Space (the first one) has a 3D map, so why not?