Things about Doom you just found out

[Azuruish]

ChekaAgent said:

if you're unbelievably lucky, you can kill the cyberdemon in 14 SSG shots.

It's possible but only in theory, or in Hacked game
SSG never causes maximum damage, random factor doesn't allow you to do it. Even killing Archvile with three shots is a real achievement.

[baja blast rd.]

ChekaAgent said:

I don't know what's wrong with that. Or you don't agree that the cyberdemon can be killed in 25 SSG shots? Technically, if you're unbelievably lucky, you can kill the cyberdemon in 14 SSG shots. It sounds crazy, but according to stats, that's true.

That strategy doesn't exist. As described it's completely ludicrous.

It's easy to quickly kill a cyber at close range in <25 SSG blasts while basically continuously firing (or close enough to it), and doing so doesn't involve relying on pain-stunning.

[kuchitsu]

Well it's true that by getting closer to the cyberdemon you increase the chance of all bullets connecting, therefore increasing the pain chance as well. When I'm fighting one some 30 minutes into the level and I'm too afraid to get close, I often see some of the bullets hitting the wall.

[baja blast rd.]

kuchitsu said:

Well it's true that by getting closer to the cyberdemon you increase the chance of all bullets connecting, therefore increasing the pain chance as well. When I'm fighting one some 30 minutes into the level and I'm too afraid to get close, I often see some of the bullets hitting the wall.

That's true but they went as far as proposing a strategy and implying that it's dependent on pain-chaincing. It's fairly easy to get all pellets to connect with normal fighting (wad and demo included), no "straferunning into point blank range and retreating needed", and pain-chancing is hardly even a factor in a speedy result (or avoiding damage). In fact I've found that cyber fighting is easiest if you can get ~128-192 map units away and just stay within that range, but the cyber generally moves around making you work to chase him. :D

(I'm mostly elaborating on my previous response to ChekaAgent, since you obviously know this.)

And yes, cybers still scare me deep into a level, even easy spacious encounters. At least I'm not alone in that regard. :)

[vadrig4r]

rdwpa said:

And yes, cybers still scare me deep into a level, even easy spacious encounters. At least I'm not alone in that regard. :)

I swear in my copy of Doom Cyber rockets have Revenant homing behaviour.

[Li'l devil]

So, I've read the wiki page about SSG and found out that it, because of weird Vanilla RNG, does a maximum of 225 damage.., instead of 300, which it should do.

But will SSG do the promised 300 damage in ZDoom?, since I heard ZDoom uses different RNG.

[Arctangent]

It can do the full 300 damage in ZDoom, yes. However, it's extremely unlikely, given that you need to roll a 3 in a 1d3 20 times for that to happen - someone better at probability could probably give you the exact chance, but needless to say, it's pretty low.

[Linguica]

Arctangent said:

It can do the full 300 damage in ZDoom, yes. However, it's extremely unlikely, given that you need to roll a 3 in a 1d3 20 times for that to happen - someone better at probability could probably give you the exact chance, but needless to say, it's pretty low.

(1/3)^20 = 1/3486784401 = 0.00000003%.

[vdgg]

ChekaAgent said:

So, I've read the wiki page about SSG and found out that it, because of weird Vanilla RNG, does a maximum of 225 damage.., instead of 300, which it should do.

For .... sake, it's not 225, it's 245, and it was shown several times in "Rare kills" thread. In Boom it's at least 255, which was experienced by me in a map26 max demo of 10sectors.wad... Arch-vile in 3 shots wouldn't be possible with 225.

[Frisky]

The chaingunner is Doom II exclusive and not in the original Doom.
TMW you feel really stupid.......really....

[Li'l devil]

vdgg said:

For .... sake, it's not 225, it's 245, and it was shown several times in "Rare kills" thread. In Boom it's at least 255, which was experienced by me in a map26 max demo of 10sectors.wad... Arch-vile in 3 shots wouldn't be possible with 225.

I don't know.. the Wiki says 225. I don't care anyway, since I mostly play on ZDoom.

[OfficerAssaulter]

I just noticed how awkwardly superimposed the shotgun looks in Doomguy's hand on the Doom title screen.

[kuchitsu]

Hmm, seems like Doom 2 actually isn't that generous with SSGs? I played Map17 and Map13 and couldn't find any. Shotgun was my main weapon. That's kinda interesting and different from what I'm used to seeing in pwads. I'll try playing some more maps. Interesting wad.

[Jon]

Frisky said:

The chaingunner is Doom II exclusive and not in the original Doom.
TMW you feel really stupid.......really....

Don't feel so bad about it. In fact, I think some chaingunners might appear in Doom #1 levels on the PlayStation port, if you play on UV.

[VGamingJunkie]

I was actually about to mention that, Pain Elementals too.

[Gez]

Yeah in the PSX version of E1M1, on Ultra Violence, there's a chaingunner behind the computer room's inner alcove, and a pain elemental in the secret tunnel overlooking the zigzag nukage room.

[baja blast rd.]

I witnessed a hell knight fire a projectile at the corpse of a revenant whose missile, which had been circling in the air for a while, had just hit him.

[kuchitsu]

ye happens sometiems https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pLOukc7KR0

[Quasar]

Yeah, fun fact that the target acquisition on damage code doesn't bother to check if the monster that would be targeted is actually still alive.

[Azuruish]

Cyberdemon is actually still solid after death a few seconds. It's impressed me as i didn't expected that rocket will impact on dying Cyberdemon.

[scifista42]

^ The Cyberdemon's behavior upon death is no different than behavior of other monsters, but thanks to his large height, it might be easier to hit the still-blocking lower part of his body (under the right conditions, for example firing at his feet from a distance, or firing at him from above him). Explanation here.

[Da Werecat]

I recently learned that you can have more than one tranmap in a Boom wad. You need to use the translucency action on a dummy linedef and transfer the effect with a tag. Additional tranmap is specified by using its name for the dummy linedef's middle texture, not unlike how the fake ceiling and floor effect works.

I believe it's time to "abuse" features that GZDoom can't replicate a little more!

[Graf Zahl]

Da Werecat said:

I believe it's time to "abuse" features that GZDoom can't replicate a little more!

So can't any other hardware accelerated or true color renderer, shutting out the majority of potential users for a pointless gimmick.

Believe it or not but there's no better thing than to depend on TRANMAP to lose a lot of potential players (i.e. the four most popular ports are immediately excluded.)

[Da Werecat]

Don't worry about potential users, I have a workaround in mind.

[esselfortium]

Graf Zahl said:

So can't any other hardware accelerated or true color renderer, shutting out the majority of potential users for a pointless gimmick.

Believe it or not but there's no better thing than to depend on TRANMAP to lose a lot of potential players (i.e. the four most popular ports are immediately excluded.)

I think there are enough maps already playable in ZDoom that you don't need to worry about scaring modders away from using cool features that ZDoom doesn't play nicely with.

[Graf Zahl]

I think it's a valid concern to point out that most non-Doomworlders actually use hardware accelerated ports. I was actually quite surprised when a user pointed to some download statistics last week, and the numbers were not quite what I would have expected, leaving 'classic' ports, especially those with software rendering only, far, far behind.

Makes such a feature immediately look less cool, eh?

And sure, I don't think much of features that are inseparably tied to outdated technology - even a true-color software renderer cannot make any use of a TRANMAP because it lives and dies with the palette being the centerpiece of the entire engine.

[VGamingJunkie]

Unless I'm mistaken, a tranmap is simply an extra texture to calculate transparencies? Couldn't you just draw transparency from the diffuse texture itself since more modern formats like png and tga are more than capable of storing alpha information?

Apparently, they allow things like "additive blending, grayscaling effects, color inversion, hue-shifting, and all sorts of other useful things" but couldn't those individual effects be done via OpenGL without tranmaps?

[scifista42]

MetroidJunkie said:

Unless I'm mistaken, a tranmap is simply an extra texture to calculate transparencies?

It's more like a COLORMAP with 65536 indexes, one index for each foreground color (palette index) crossed with each background color (index), defining the resulting palette index. See this and this.

[Linguica]

Graf Zahl said:

I was actually quite surprised when a user pointed to some download statistics last week, and the numbers were not quite what I would have expected, leaving 'classic' ports, especially those with software rendering only, far, far behind.

Makes such a feature immediately look less cool, eh?

And the vast majority of people are downloading GZDoom for the specific purpose of playing Brutal Doom or another gameplay mod and have no intention of ever playing a classic-esque PWAD in any event. So what?

[esselfortium]

Graf Zahl said:

I think it's a valid concern to point out that most non-Doomworlders actually use hardware accelerated ports. I was actually quite surprised when a user pointed to some download statistics last week, and the numbers were not quite what I would have expected, leaving 'classic' ports, especially those with software rendering only, far, far behind.

Makes such a feature immediately look less cool, eh?

And sure, I don't think much of features that are inseparably tied to outdated technology - even a true-color software renderer cannot make any use of a TRANMAP because it lives and dies with the palette being the centerpiece of the entire engine.

Not really. If we only mapped based on what had the widest preexisting userbase, I wouldn't have made Vapordemo and there wouldn't be any Doom64EX maps released. Not to suggest that there are very many EE or D64EX maps, but rather to say that it's perfectly fair for a mapper to target a featureset that does what they want, and just accept that some players won't be interested enough to bother with it, but that if the work is good enough it can have an audience regardless.

Yes, it sucks that there's no easy way to fully support TRANMAP lumps in true color, but it also sucks that there's still literally no other way to apply complex color transforms to a translucent linedef in Doom.