Things about Doom you just found out

[Maes]

On 1/27/2021 at 10:58 AM, Lucky_Edie said:

Teleporters don't always take you to the exact same spot. 

 

Technically, they do -at least standard vanilla teleporters with vanilla code-, otherwise demos wouldn't be repeatable. They also kill off your momentum and force a specific orientation on Doomguy. I don't know how other types of teleporters in source ports behave tho.

 

OK, to be more precise, a specific teleport trigger linedef will always take you to the same teleporter destination. But it's easy to make a teleporter square or trigger line that behaves differently (and sends you in a completely different place) depending on which side you cross it from. Makes for some pretty frustrating playerfuckery if done "right".

Edited February 2, 2021 by Maes

[ax34]

Bosses (Cyberdemon and Mastermind) are immune to splash damage

[Gez]

1 hour ago, Maes said:

I don't know how other types of teleporters in source ports behave tho.

Hexen-style teleporters will send you to a random destination if they have several that are tagged. Doom-style teleports will always send you to their first destination, no matter how many destinations are available in the tagged sectors.

[DRM-MAN]

I don't like episode 3: inferno.

[TimeOfDeath666]

3 hours ago, Maes said:

OK, to be more precise, a specific teleport trigger linedef will always take you to the same teleporter destination. But it's easy to make a teleporter square or trigger line that behaves differently (and sends you in a completely different place) depending on which side you cross it from. Makes for some pretty frustrating playerfuckery if done "right".

 

In vanilla compat you can make a single teleport line send you to multiple destinations if you dehacked the "teleport exit" (in whacked) thing by enabling SHOOTABLE, and disabling NOSECTOR and NOBLOCKMAP. When you teleport, you will telefrag the teleport exit and it won't be usable any more. If you have multiple teleport exits in sectors with the same sector tag, you can keep using the teleport line until you've telefragged all those teleport exits. The game sends you to the teleport exit with the lowest thing number first. Monsters can only use those teleports on map30 when they're allowed to telefrag.

 

Attached is a demo wad (map01 is for the player, map30 is for the monsters).

telefrag.zip

[wallabra]

3 hours ago, Maes said:

Technically, they do -at least standard vanilla teleporters with vanilla code-, otherwise demos wouldn't be repeatable. They also kill off your momentum and force a specific orientation on Doomguy. I don't know how other types of teleporters in source ports behave tho.

 

What about setting two destinations, and sealing the 1st one by lowering the ceiling or something? Or alternatively, sealing one and unsealing the other?

[Lucky_Edie]

4 hours ago, Maes said:

OK, to be more precise, a specific teleport trigger linedef will always take you to the same teleporter destination. But it's easy to make a teleporter square or trigger line that behaves differently (and sends you in a completely different place) depending on which side you cross it from. Makes for some pretty frustrating playerfuckery if done "right".

 

In the situation I'm thinking of I'm being offset on the teleport destination by about 8 map units. All linedefs take me to the exact same destination, it just occasionally puts me in a slightly different spot. 

 

4 hours 50 minutes 36 seconds in is where I demonstrate it with frog&toad map09, look at the very left of the screen to see the difference in location. I do not know why this happens. It is boom compat

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/880186173?t=4h50m36s

 

[Gez]

1 hour ago, Gustavo6046 said:

What about setting two destinations, and sealing the 1st one by lowering the ceiling or something? Or alternatively, sealing one and unsealing the other?

The engine won't care.

 

What you can do, without using dehacked to kill the destinations, is to surround your WR teleporter with a sneaky array of W1 teleporters.

[Stupid Bunny]

3 minutes ago, Gez said:

without using dehacked to kill the destinations

So wait how does this work? The more I learn about Dehacked the more I feel like I barely know the beginning of what it can do.

[Gez]

10 minutes ago, StupidBunny said:

So wait how does this work? The more I learn about Dehacked the more I feel like I barely know the beginning of what it can do.

See @TimeOfDeath666's post above about making teleport destinations telefraggable.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Gez

[Maes]

12 hours ago, Lucky_Edie said:

4 hours 50 minutes 36 seconds in is where I demonstrate it with frog&toad map09, look at the very left of the screen to see the difference in location. I do not know why this happens. It is boom compat

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/880186173?t=4h50m36s

 

 

The vid is not available anymore, but I suppose it's either an instance of what TOD said, some Boom-specific trickery (with frog & toad being a Boom map and all), or just some good old map trickery like placing two teleport destinations close to one another, and their W1 trigger lines also close to one another, just to subtly mess with the player ;-)

Edited February 3, 2021 by Maes

[BrassKnight]

In Doom 2's MAP12: The Factory, the shotgunner room has a missing texture, looks like Sandy Peterson forgot about it. I found this while replaying Doom 2:

What it looks like in-game (GZDoom)

\

In Ultimate Doom Builder

[Ar_e_en]

The flying monster summoning cubes that the Icon of Sin launches are functionally just projectiles, really unique projectiles, but still just projectiles. 

If you create a DeHackEd file that removes the cubes ability to go through walls and give it the parameter that allows it to collide with other entities - it just becomes another projectile (it even has a preset damage value of 3). It still needs the destination spots on the map for it to travel to, but besides that - it isn't some sort of special attack (like the Archvile flame attack), it's just a projectile.

[zokum]

1 hour ago, BrassKnight said:

In Doom 2's MAP12: The Factory, the shotgunner room has a missing texture, looks like Sandy Peterson forgot about it. I found this while replaying Doom 2:

What it looks like in-game (GZDoom)

\

In Ultimate Doom Builder

This shouldn't be happening during normal gameplay unless you do a linedef skip as far as I can tell from the map. I'd give Sandy a pass :)

[wallabra]

21 hours ago, Gez said:

The engine won't care.

 

Oh, so it'd just teleport you into the zero-height sector?... Huh. That's... imagine being teleported into a block of stone, that'd be kinda rude.

[Scypek2]

If you DeHack the player height to be lower than their view height, their point of view will lower when entering such low spaces. You could make a vanilla-compatible approximation of crouching that way.

[Pegleg]

About a week ago, I was recording demos for a vanilla project. Chocolate Doom was the target port, but I used PrBoom+ v. 2.5.1.4 to record the demos, because data is data, right? I know the ZDoom family has issues with demos, but PrBoom+ is well-known for demo compatibility, so there shouldn't be a problem, right?

 

Upon trying to load the demos, Chocolate Doom crashed with an error reporting that the demos were version 2.14, not version 1.9. Recording in Chocolate Doom fixed the problem.

 

OK. Lesson learned. When recording demos, if you want to be able to play them back in Chocolate Doom, then they must be recorded in Chocolate Doom. PrBoom+ will still work just fine for everything else.

[zokum]

47 minutes ago, Pegleg said:

About a week ago, I was recording demos for a vanilla project. Chocolate Doom was the target port, but I used PrBoom+ v. 2.5.1.4 to record the demos, because data is data, right? I know the ZDoom family has issues with demos, but PrBoom+ is well-known for demo compatibility, so there shouldn't be a problem, right?

 

Upon trying to load the demos, Chocolate Doom crashed with an error reporting that the demos were version 2.14, not version 1.9. Recording in Chocolate Doom fixed the problem.

 

OK. Lesson learned. When recording demos, if you want to be able to play them back in Chocolate Doom, then they must be recorded in Chocolate Doom. PrBoom+ will still work just fine for everything else.

I think you have to specify the correct compatibility level. You're better off using choco though.

[wallabra]

On 2/3/2021 at 4:22 PM, Scypek2 said:

If you DeHack the player height to be lower than their view height, their point of view will lower when entering such low spaces. You could make a vanilla-compatible approximation of crouching that way.

 

You could set the player height to be around a crouching height kind of thing, like 48 maybe. The thing is, this would still be kind of noticeable if the player were in "standing" circumstances, projectiles could go through your head and not hit you. Maybe if it could be changed somehow? What action functions can modify an actor's height from DeHackEd? Could perhaps DeHackEd do it itself???

[Scypek2]

57 minutes ago, Gustavo6046 said:

 

You could set the player height to be around a crouching height kind of thing, like 48 maybe. The thing is, this would still be kind of noticeable if the player were in "standing" circumstances, projectiles could go through your head and not hit you. Maybe if it could be changed somehow? What action functions can modify an actor's height from DeHackEd? Could perhaps DeHackEd do it itself???

 

I've played around with it for some time, and setting the player height to 32 didn't seem to produce any issues. The monsters shot at me normally and had not problems hitting me. Maybe there would be a noticeable change in some really special circumstances.

[Gokuma]

On 2/3/2021 at 10:44 AM, Ar_e_en said:

The flying monster summoning cubes that the Icon of Sin launches are functionally just projectiles, really unique projectiles, but still just projectiles. 

If you create a DeHackEd file that removes the cubes ability to go through walls and give it the parameter that allows it to collide with other entities - it just becomes another projectile (it even has a preset damage value of 3). It still needs the destination spots on the map for it to travel to, but besides that - it isn't some sort of special attack (like the Archvile flame attack), it's just a projectile.

 

Maybe make a corridor that BFG balls fly down.   Or a testing chamber like in Doom 2016.

[wallabra]

1 hour ago, Scypek2 said:

 

I've played around with it for some time, and setting the player height to 32 didn't seem to produce any issues. The monsters shot at me normally and had not problems hitting me. Maybe there would be a noticeable change in some really special circumstances.

 

What if you have imps shoot at you, then lower the floor of your sector some 24 or something units? Perhaps the player's height would matter more then.

 

How about crushers? How about standing inside of a closing door? What if an area has to be "crouched into" as a means to kind of restrict the player's movement and make them vulnerable, as a sort of challenge?

 

Heck, what if we mix this and voodoo dolls?

[Scypek2]

1 hour ago, Gokuma said:

 

Maybe make a corridor that BFG balls fly down.   Or a testing chamber like in Doom 2016.

 

Harmony did something like this with the boss cubes! Also utilizing the fact that they're always shooting each boss target in the same order, even if there's multiple boss shooters. But for some reason it doesn't work in newer zdoom versions.

[Revenant100]

The "DS" prefix used for all of Doom's digital sounds in the IWADs stands for "demon-spitter".

Finally, another age old mystery we can put to rest!

 

Hey, wait a minute... that doesn't make any sense! What the hell is this? Because it stinks like rotten meat!

[Rytrik]

On 2/2/2021 at 10:09 AM, Maes said:

But it's easy to make a teleporter square or trigger line that behaves differently (and sends you in a completely different place) depending on which side you cross it from. Makes for some pretty frustrating playerfuckery if done "right".

 

Isn't that what happens with the teleporter in Tricks and Traps which ports you into a different part of the Pain Elemental room, depending on which side you enter? Or are those 3 seperate teleporters?

[kristus]

Those are just three different teleporters

[DimLight]

After playing classic Doom for years... Just found out that i can actually mark a location on the automap by pressing "M". I seriously didn't realize this until few days ago

[baja blast rd.]

On 1/6/2021 at 12:08 PM, HAK3180 said:

I just found out that whether or not you are running changes the angle of strafemoving.

 

The angle order seems to be, from greatest to smallest:

Strafing = 90° (of course)

Strafewalk-50¹ = >50°??? (based on significantly greater angle than the below, observed)

Straferun-50 = 45° (based on the wiki)

Strafewalk-40¹ = ~43°??? (based on very slightly less angle than the above, observed)

Straferun-40 = 38.7° (based on the wiki)

Moving forward = 0° (of course)

 

Also, Strafewalk-50 seems to be more faster² than Strafewalk-40, compared to Straferun-50 vs. Straferun-40

 

I found this chart about the different speeds from Maes from a few years ago, though I don't believe it includes what I have called Strafewalk-40 and Strafewalk-50. It seems to be using "strafe-walk" to mean strafing straight to the left or right without running, and "strafe-run" to mean strafing straight to the left or right with running.

 

 

^{1 I realize these terms are not accurate, but I don't know what common verbiage for this is, if anything}

^{2 Yes, a proper use of "more faster"}

 

I learned about strafewalk-50 today. The movement angle is ~63.5° relative to the center of your view, and your movement speed is 12% faster than standard running. It looks really goofy. Inputs here are those required for straferun-50 but with autorun off. 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by rd.

[StarSpun5000]

Something I more noticed than learned. I was checking out some of Doom 2 levels in a level editor and I noticed that the four switch stair room in Nirvana has a seemingly missing sector and two missing wall textures. Yet they show up as normal whenever I play the stage (specifically in GZDoom, apparently in the original game it showed up as a missing wall texture, or so I've heard.   

[ketmar]

dunno about that particular map, but GZDoom has a HUGE list of "known maps with bugs", and fixes them on loading.