Things about Doom you just found out

[Dragonsbrethren]

In the 0.5 alpha E1M1 there's a switch door behind the start point that opens to a room containing armor, ammo, and two powerups. Even the engine demo map has secrets!

[DuckReconMajor]

^ woah

Also woah at that creepy shadow that kills you.

[LigH]

Killing shadow, where? In Doom beta? ... Might be a version of the Red Ghost from "Spear of Destiny".

[Dragonsbrethren]

Heh, it's just a misplaced damaging sector.

[DuckReconMajor]

Yeah start up the 0.5 alpha and step to the left.

[yellowmadness54]

I just found some other secret I never new of in E2M1, near the beginning. I've never seen this room in my entire life of playing DOOM.

[Dragonsbrethren]

The teleporter to the plasma gun room?

[david_a]

From the cheat code thread I learned that idchoppers also makes you invulnerable. I guess back when I would have used it I always used iddqd anyway...

[RjY]

printz said:
The only regular/extended monster-activated switches in Boom are the switch teleporters. Do you mean them?

Yes, from this code in boom p_switch.c.

  // Switches that other things can activate.
  if (!thing->player)
  {
    // never open secret doors
    if (line->flags & ML_SECRET)
      return false;
      
    switch(line->special)
    {
      case 1:         // MANUAL DOOR RAISE
      case 32:        // MANUAL BLUE
      case 33:        // MANUAL RED
      case 34:        // MANUAL YELLOW
      //jff 3/5/98 add ability to use teleporters for monsters
      case 195:       // switch teleporters
      case 174:
      case 210:       // silent switch teleporters
      case 209:
        break;
          
      default:
        return false;
        break;
    }
  }

(Footnote: why the locked door types are considered monster-activatable is one of the mysteries of life, since to own a keycard you need to be a player and have a valid player structure attached to your mobj...)

printz said:
I also tested Eternity -vanilla, by summoning a monster in front of a regular secret non-switch door. It didn't open it! Or does DOOM act differently from BOOM in this regard, and Eternity (or the compatibility flag?) chose DOOM's method? Oh shit I hope it's not like this.

What was the linedef special number of the door? Actually, it might be easier if you could post the test map, if you are so inclined.

david_a said:
From the cheat code thread I learned that idchoppers also makes you invulnerable. I guess back when I would have used it I always used iddqd anyway...

Indeed, and you can see it in st_stuff.c from the original source release:

      // 'choppers' invulnerability & chainsaw
      else if (cht_CheckCheat(&cheat_choppers, ev->data1))
      {
        plyr->weaponowned[wp_chainsaw] = true;
        plyr->powers[pw_invulnerability] = true;
        plyr->message = STSTR_CHOPPERS;
      }

Note that as "true" has the numerical value 1, it gives you precisely one gametic of invulnerability...

[printz]

RjY said:

(Footnote: why the locked door types are considered monster-activatable is one of the mysteries of life, since to own a keycard you need to be a player and have a valid player structure attached to your mobj...)

It could be a fumble from Wolfenstein 3d habits, where the Nazis had the keys to open locked doors?

What was the linedef special number of the door? Actually, it might be easier if you could post the test map, if you are so inclined.

The map is, for example, Doom.wad E1M1, and I just tested it in vanilla. The linedef type is 1 (standard universal door), flagged secret, and I went idspispopd to attempt to lure the zombies from the zigzag into the secret. They would open the door leading to the exit, but never the one to the secret.

[RjY]

printz said:

The map is, for example, Doom.wad E1M1, and I just tested it in vanilla. The linedef type is 1 (standard universal door), flagged secret, and I went idspispopd to attempt to lure the zombies from the zigzag into the secret. They would open the door leading to the exit, but never the one to the secret.

That's correct behaviour, the monster can open the normal door but not the secret one. And when I just checked now, using the secret door to outside on E1M1, Eternity seemed to replicate the behaviour as expected.

Thinking about this, perhaps the confusion is because I said "if and only if it's a switch" which you took to mean a remote switch not a manual door, whereas I meant switch as in any linedef action handled by P_UseSpecialLine, which of course includes both remotes and manuals.

The thing is the code to handle generalised linedefs copypasted the secret line test across all three P_*SpecialLine functions, but only for door-type linedefs. I believe it should have applied for all generalised types handled by P_UseSpecialLine, but no generalised types handled by the other two.

[LigH]

RjY said:

(Footnote: why the locked door types are considered monster-activatable is one of the mysteries of life, since to own a keycard you need to be a player and have a valid player structure attached to your mobj...)

Interesting. Because...

I faintly remember a map where a monster (pinky?) was supposed to open a (red?) locked door and "bring you" the key somehow. I don't know anymore which megawad it was, but the place contained a dark tech maze with a window through which the monster was probably supposed to see you, pass a teleporter, appear behind the door, open it and chase you through the maze.

I had my BFG ready and shot through the window, killed the monster before it could teleport, and did not receive the key to leave the maze.

[qoncept]

LigH said:

Interesting. Because...

I faintly remember a map where a monster (pinky?) was supposed to open a (red?) locked door and "bring you" the key somehow. I don't know anymore which megawad it was, but the place contained a dark tech maze with a window through which the monster was probably supposed to see you, pass a teleporter, appear behind the door, open it and chase you through the maze.

I had my BFG ready and shot through the window, killed the monster before it could teleport, and did not receive the key to leave the maze.

The door can be marked as keyed on just one side. With the demon on the other side he could open it. There's a speedrun of Monster Condo which uses this odd behavior along with a collision detection glitch to have an Arch Vile open the red door and skip most of the level.

[Marcaek]

qoncept said:

The door can be marked as keyed on just one side. With the demon on the other side he could open it. There's a speedrun of Monster Condo which uses this odd behavior along with a collision detection glitch to have an Arch Vile open the red door and skip most of the level.

I'd like to see that, which file is it?

[qoncept]

I saw it on youtube. He does it in this one, skip to 14:45.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XorJfexzF4M

[Janus3003]

I only recently found out how to legitimately reach E1M9. Then again, I've only actively been playing Doom for that last two years (we had Doom II when I was a kid, but it was quickly banned in my home).

So I guess in that light, there're a lot of things about Doom that I just found out.

[DuckReconMajor]

Did you look it up or find it yourself?

In any case glad to hear Doom is back in your life.

[Janus3003]

DuckReconMajor said:

Did you look it up or find it yourself?

I found it out myself, though I actually discovered it in Classic Doom 3 before finding it in regular Doom itself.

In any case glad to hear Doom is back in your life.

Heh, me too. My parents don't particularly appreciate it, but I'm glad they respect my decisions as an adult.

[Urban Space Cowboy]

LigH said:

I faintly remember a map where a monster (pinky?) was supposed to open a (red?) locked door and "bring you" the key somehow. I don't know anymore which megawad it was, but the place contained a dark tech maze with a window through which the monster was probably supposed to see you, pass a teleporter, appear behind the door, open it and chase you through the maze.

Sounds like Community Chest 3 map 15.

[LigH]

That's it, USC.
__

And as I'm playing Batman Doom, it sometimes seems that killed enemies drop keys (who knows what DeHackEd or Boom are able to what Vanilla Doom isn't); but that may be wrong, could as well be that their movement is just restricted near its position.

[Lila Feuer]

That the Megasphere on TNT MAP11 can only be obtained if the Archvile that warps in gets you to "jump" up there. Because I kill the fucker every time I was always stumped and used a rocket jump myself to snag it when playing ZDoom.

And a few miscellaneous secret / secret triggers I didn't know about before when running through the IWADs for the bazillionth time.

[Scypek2]

When ceiling of sector with effect "door close after 30 seconds" hits your head in zdoom, it bounces back like normal door, but in vanilla it either stops or rises endlessly high.

[LigH]

Apropos ... I don't like maps which close an area with a timeout after starting, especially if it is the access to the super secret exit and you need all three keys to open three colored doors in front of it ... but there seem to be speedrunning wizards who manage to pass it.

[Marcaek]

LigH said:

Apropos ... I don't like maps which close an area with a timeout after starting, especially if it is the access to the super secret exit and you need all three keys to open three colored doors in front of it ... but there seem to be speedrunning wizards who manage to pass it.

oh man that sounds terrible

Which map does this?

[LigH]

Definitely a MAP31; probably in one of the Community Chests.

[Gez]

That's Scythe 2, actually.

[Kira]

Yeah. And I long thought it was a bug, asking people on #nightmare about it. Like a moron.

[qoncept]

One thing I hate is nukage pits with no way out, or that hurt so badly that you probably won't make it anyway. Come to think of it, I'm not a fan of nukage at all most of the time.

[Guest]

Scypek2 said:

When ceiling of sector with effect "door close after 30 seconds" hits your head in zdoom, it bounces back like normal door, but in vanilla it either stops or rises endlessly high.

Good to know this. Something I just found out right there.

[printz]

Scypek2 said:

When ceiling of sector with effect "door close after 30 seconds" hits your head in zdoom, it bounces back like normal door, but in vanilla it either stops or rises endlessly high.

And that's so easy to trigger in MAP27... Does it crash the game?