Things about Doom you just found out

[Andromeda]

17 hours ago, storm123321 said:

Just found out theres a wad with triple the okuplok monster count

Thanks coincident

Or fourty times untitled 2:

[The Doommer]

17 hours ago, Faceman2000 said:

the Cacodemon has a melee attack. However, it doesn’t have assigned melee states

So the fireball damage and the melee damage are effectively the same and the game treats the melee attack as a point blank projectile hit?

[Faceman2000]

35 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

So the fireball damage and the melee damage are effectively the same and the game treats the melee attack as a point blank projectile hit?

Nope! That’s why it’s so weird. The melee attack does 10-60 damage (and, weirdly enough, doesn’t make any sound) whereas the Caco fireball only does 5-40. Like I said, the Cacodemon’s attack, A_HeadAttack, fires a fireball at range and performs a melee attack at point-blank range. It CAN melee attack, it just never TRIES to melee you. The AI for the Caco isn’t built to. As such, you only ever see its melee under the before mentioned conditions - when it tries to shoot a fireball at you and you just happen to be next to it. That’s why it’s so unaggressive when you are standing next to it and why it almost seems to run away - in simple terms, a monster has to walk a certain distance before it can shoot at you. This “minimum step” restriction doesn’t apply to monsters who have melee states (Imps, Hell Nobles, Revenants, etc) who will immediately try to melee if you get to close. The Caco, since it doesn’t have hardcoded melee states, can never try to initiate a melee attack, and thusly has to walk the minimum distance before trying to shoot you even if you’re standing next to it.

 

There’s certainly some oversimplifications in my explanation as I’m not a code guru, so if anyone who understands better sees anything egregiously wrong in that description please correct me.

[Li'l devil]

Pretty much. However, as a consequense of them lacking a melee state, like I said, cacodemons are more aggressive at a distance. It's explained why in one decino's videos, I forgot the reasoning though, it's too technical anyway.

[DoomGappy]

This wall of chaingunners in Plutonia map15 - The Twilight appears in all difficulties. The Casalis really just gave the players a huge fuck you right here in the middle of the megawad.

 

 

This map sucks balls btw.

Edited January 9, 2024 by DoomGappy

[Li'l devil]

If you set ambush flag to a barrel or any other item/decoration, then their appearance will be more sudden to the player.

[Cutman 999]

4 hours ago, DoomGappy said:

 

 

This map sucks balls btw.

At least is not boring like endgame plutonia is. Also, to remain on topic, that difficulty shit also applies to go2it not having any differences between difficulties.

Edited January 10, 2024 by Cutman 999

[DoomGappy]

1 minute ago, Cutman 999 said:

At least is not boring like endgame plutonia is. Also, that difficulty shit also applies to go2it not having any differences between difficulties.

TBH it felt boring, I skipped it. Early plutonia for me is much more memorable and fun. When map12 rolls around, it starts feeling like a slog. I'm keeping on to see all the maps.

[Wadmodder Shalton]

There was once a copy of Doom shareware that was infected with the Monkey B computer virus on a bulletin board system around 1994 or so, which was quickly removed shortly afterword.

 

The only evidence that survives of this infected shareware version is this report from a Ohio TV Station.

[fruity lerlups]

5 hours ago, Li'l devil said:

If you set ambush flag to a barrel or any other item/decoration, then their appearance will be more sudden to the player.

it bypasses the BSP tree 

[Maximum Matt]

22 hours ago, Li'l devil said:

If you set ambush flag to a barrel or any other item/decoration, then their appearance will be more sudden to the player.

What do you mean??

[Scypek2]

You won't know they're there until you see them.

[Maximum Matt]

[Yousuf Anik]

Yesterday during testing an UDMF format map I noticed a Revenant was punching the other Revenant. I wonder how that works because I usually play Doom 2 or Boom format maps most of the time and I never saw this before. Gah, I should've taken a screenshot though, it was looking funny :D 

[Fonze]

2 minutes ago, Yousuf Anik said:

Yesterday during testing an UDMF format map I noticed a Revenant was punching the other Revenant. I wonder how that works because I usually play Doom 2 or Boom format maps most of the time and I never saw this before. Gah, I should've taken a screenshot though, it was looking funny :D 

It could be that the first rev damaged but failed to blow up a barrel which then did blow up, damaging the second rev

Edited January 12, 2024 by Fonze

[DavidN]

I just saw a revenant go after an arachnotron that was already dead! Is it possible for a monster to target a dead other monster if monster 2 died after launching the projectile that hit monster 1 (therefore bypassing the "change targets when target dies" check)?

 

Or I could have been mistaken and it was trying to reach an enemy further back and was having difficulty negotiating the ledge in between.

[Edward850]

49 minutes ago, DavidN said:

I just saw a revenant go after an arachnotron that was already dead! Is it possible for a monster to target a dead other monster if monster 2 died after launching the projectile that hit monster 1 (therefore bypassing the "change targets when target dies" check)?

 

Or I could have been mistaken and it was trying to reach an enemy further back and was having difficulty negotiating the ledge in between.

You'll be mistaken. P_KillMobj marks an actor as no longer shootable, and A_Chase if given a target without MF_SHOOTABLE will immediately look for a player or return to the spawn state.

[DavidN]

11 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

You'll be mistaken. P_KillMobj marks an actor as no longer shootable, and A_Chase if given a target without MF_SHOOTABLE will immediately look for a player or return to the spawn state.

Thank you for that insight! I didn't think it was likely that I'd discovered something new about monster infighting after 30 years.

[RjY]

10 hours ago, DavidN said:

I just saw a revenant go after an arachnotron that was already dead! Is it possible for a monster to target a dead other monster if monster 2 died after launching the projectile that hit monster 1 (therefore bypassing the "change targets when target dies" check)?

9 hours ago, Edward850 said:

You'll be mistaken. P_KillMobj marks an actor as no longer shootable, and A_Chase if given a target without MF_SHOOTABLE will immediately look for a player or return to the spawn state.

There is a small window of opportunity in which an attacking monster whose target-changing threshold has expired may be struck by a missile from a dead one without triggering its pain state. This will cause it to switch targets during its attack animation, before it has launched its own missile, which will now be launched at the corpse. Only then will it return to chase state and forget about it.
 

This is the same sequence of events as barons shooting out of their backs but much more rare, as it involves switching target to a monster that must have only just died, immediately after it launched a missile, which actually hits another monster, which itself happens to be mid-attack and has not switched its own target in a while. Go buy a lottery ticket if you ever see it happen. Edit: or actually, don't, because you have used up your luck for today. The point is, there is no check for a live source in P_DamageMobj, or a live target in any of the missile launching A_* actor functions, which only check if actor->target is set. Not if it has positive health, or the shootable flag, or lacks the corpse flag, etc.etc., there are too many different ways the engine uses to check this.

Edited January 13, 2024 by RjY

[Gibbitudinous]

You can't spell "tsundere" without "sunder".

[Scypek2]

On 1/13/2024 at 10:11 AM, RjY said:

Go buy a lottery ticket if you ever see it happen

 

That doesn't seem too unlikely with some slow projectiles and plenty of infighting going on around. Especially with Archviles and their super long attacks, I think I've seen them turn around to blast corpses plenty often.

[peach freak]

Adding to this, when I play Map32 of TNT, at the end of the map I have the Cyberdemon infight everybody instead of me shooting them. By the time the Cyberdemon has killed everything, I have a ton of Revenant homing missiles chasing me, when I steer them into the Cyberdemon, the Cyberdemon will shoot briefly at the Revenant corpses before going back to attacking me.

[peach freak]

Speaking of Map32 of TNT, and this isn't something I just found out (I believe I found this out in recent years only because I was going for 100% items), but it's still an easy-to-miss hidden area. At the end of the map, there's a hidden Megasphere with a Revenant. You need to go into the tunnel and face the switch that opens up the final area where the exit is. Turn right and there will be a fake wall across from you. If you walk through it, you'll find that hidden room. As I said, it can be easy to miss since it's not considered a secret area, and if you're going for 100% items and end up missing one here, this would be the most likely cause.

[Ashley_Pomeroy]

On 3/28/2022 at 9:20 PM, Gez said:

That makes sense, considering the author of Mayan Temple, Paul Turnbull, was one of the members of Team TNT that worked on Evilution.

 

Also remember that TNT: Evilution was originally supposed to be just another community-made megawad. It becoming an official product was a last minute surprise, and quite controversial back then.

 

In fact Paul Turnbull was the chap who originally announced Evilution on Usenet, back on 11 October 1995:

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.games.computer.doom.editing/c/is-NnpsIwyc/m/yriLKYZxHHYJ

 

NB I realise I'm replying to an old post, but this is a perennial thread and I'm reading it in backwards order. Ye Gods it's fascinating. It's full of things about Doom that I've only just found out! Because that's what it is.

 

I was always curious about the Evilution Usenet controversy because it happened at almost exactly the same time I got on the internet, but I remember largely avoiding Usenet back then.

 

In homage to id Software, we have chosen today, DOOMsday,
to announce release of TNT: Evilution in "2 weeks".

 

Reading through other Usenet threads from the same period it appears that about four hours before uploading the finished products to ftp.cdrom.com TNT had an email from John Romero offering to buy it, and the rest is infamy. There's a funny rant in that thread from J Box, which ends with "well Id I know rank you down with Midway", which stings even nineteen years later.

 

You know, in an age when games cost £54.99 and are then followed with £60 worth of DLC there's something heartbreakingly old-fashioned about Simon H Garlick's objection:

 

"You expect us to _pay_ for a PWAD?
Did you pay for your level editors? For the tips and skills you picked up in this forum? For the advice you received from other players? When other players have made suggestions or criticism, have you paid them consultancy fees?

Did the authors of great pwads such as Aliens-TC!, trinity.wad, uac_dead.wad, raven.wad, asd2.wad, 2diehell.wad, boothill.wad, return01.wad, etc. ask anyone to pay them for it?

You may get a _few_ dollars - although Doom will never die, Quake is just around the corner - but is it worth the contempt and disgust of the entire Doom community?"

 

He was right though. Doom will never die.

 

It seems that DOOMsday was a reference to the launch party for Doom II, which took place a year earlier (on 10 October 1994, but presumably it lasted well into the next morning because John Romero was there say no more):

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doomsday_party

 

I was fascinated by this part:

 

"A number of protesters were also attracted to the event, coming there to confront id Software over the controversial and unscientific idea that violence in video games could potentially lead to real-life violence or corrupt the minds of children. One such protester interrupted Jay Wilbur's opening remarks but was silenced by a response from Shawn Green and others."

 

I wonder what Shawn Green and others said? "Suck it down"? "Don't go near that man in the white suit otherwise he'll make you his bitch"?

 

Usenet is a bizarre relic of a period when people used their real name on the internet(!) and their actual unhidden email addresses, and everybody's home page was something something dot edu forward slash tilde bsmith. Somewhere in this mess of a post is something I just found out. 

Edited January 16, 2024 by Ashley_Pomeroy

[SiFi270]

My latest discovery about Doom is that 2diehell.wad is not quite the hidden gem that second-to-last quote suggested it might be.

[DoomGappy]

There's a cell charge floating in the void in Doom2's map11 - Circle of Death/O of Destruction.

Edited January 17, 2024 by DoomGappy

[Maximum Matt]

What version is that

[Li'l devil]

20 hours ago, Ashley_Pomeroy said:

You know, in an age when games cost £54.99 and are then followed with £60 worth of DLC there's something heartbreakingly old-fashioned about Simon H Garlick's objection:

Overall, your post is very interesting (unbelievable that they decided to make Evilution paid just 4 hours before the release, this is so dumb, but hey, money is the most important thing in the world, right?), however when I saw the name Simon Garlick, I knew I heard it somewhere before. I went to the wiki to check if maybe this was a 90s mapper, but it turns out Simon Garlick is a background character in Doom 3. Coincidence or not!?

Edited January 17, 2024 by Li'l devil

[DoomGappy]

12 hours ago, Maximum Matt said:

What version is that

I believe it's 1.9.

[RjY]

2 hours ago, Li'l devil said:

when I saw the name Simon Garlick, I knew I heard it somewhere before. I went to the wiki to check if maybe this was a 90s mapper, but it turns out Simon Garlick is a background character in Doom 3

I had a similar experience the last time I replayed Theatre, when I suddenly realised I had seen the author's name in a different context -- Brendon Wyber was co-author of DEU :) Not sure why it took two decades for the brain to make the connection.