Things That WAD Designers Do That Irritate You

[Vordakk]

Vermil said:

This isn't because of free look apparently. In Vanilla Doom, player and bad guys hitscan attacks have the same max range of 2048 units.

In ZDoom, player hitscans apparently have a range of 8192 units, while the bad guy’s hitscan range remains at 2048. Other ports keep both at 2048 units.

Wow, I never knew that. Wonder if there's an easy way to revert ZDoom's behavior back to that of Vanilla DOOM.

[killer2]

Vermil said:

This isn't because of free look apparently. In Vanilla Doom, player and bad guys hitscan attacks have the same max range of 2048 units.

In ZDoom, player hitscans apparently have a range of 8192 units, while the bad guy’s hitscan range remains at 2048. Other ports keep both at 2048 units.

EDIT: This is easy to observe on Mt Erebus (Doom1 E3M6) with the automap on. In ZDoom the player's hitscans can hit the left border wall (the red brick border behind the invulnerability sphere, about 3400 unit's away) from the player start spot. In Vanilla and other ports, the player’s hitscans don't reach.

Wow, nice information there! But yeah, in vanilla they could hit you from 2048 and you could only hit them from 1024 (due to freelook) which was kind of annoying. I see ZDoom sort of changes the situation, the monsters being the ones who can't reach you anymore.

[Shanoa]

- Maps that mostly forces you to use infighting if you want any chances of survival.

- like 40oz said, BFG9000 oriented maps. Maybe when i was 10 i would've found that amusing for a long period of time but now its just annoying.

- Mapsets that start simple and suddenly spike up in difficulty to the point its often too hard.

- Staircases where you can't see what's under you. I don't use freelook so its quite annoying to get clawed from somewhere i can't see. (Memento Mori I, Kinetics is a fine example)

[elic]

Archvile78 said:

- Staircases where you can't see what's under you. I don't use freelook so its quite annoying to get clawed from somewhere i can't see. (Memento Mori I, Kinetics is a fine example)

Thinking of that horrible map makes me come up with few more:

-Doors that aren't lower-unpegged

-Computer textures used on big stretches of walls

-Crate textures used on things other than crates

-Fights that are entirely luck based rather than skill-based

[killer2]

Processingcontrol said:

-Fights that are entirely luck based rather than skill-based

Yep! Always hated maps that do this kind of shit.

[Memfis]

Most luck based battles turn into skill-based as you get better at the game. :)

[DeathevokatioN]

Memfis said:

Most luck based battles turn into skill-based as you get better at the game. :)

Yeah that is another card that weaker players pull to soothe their butthurt from getting their asses kicked in dangerous situations, but then again the same can be said about almost the entire thread... I really hope that no real level designer takes this thread seriously.

[dannebubinga]

It kinda feels like this whole thread is dedicated to me, cause I'm guilty of almost everything mentioned here. But I know there are people who enjoy playing my maps so it's hard to take this serious. :P

And memfis is right. Luck has almost nothing to do with it :)

[printz]

Vermil said:

In ZDoom, player hitscans apparently have a range of 8192 units, while the bad guy’s hitscan range remains at 2048. Other ports keep both at 2048 units.

It is worth wondering why they did that, and then considered it a good idea to keep. The reasoning that "ZDoom runs in high resolution and it would be visible" doesn't stand, considering that other ports are high-res too. In the end, all it does is make it easier for the player. Can be another reason not to play ZDoom unless it is required. Is there a compatibility setting for it, though?

[elic]

Memfis said:

Most luck based battles turn into skill-based as you get better at the game. :)

Not in some shitty levels.

I remember one fight in Memento Mori MAP12 where you you teleport into a cramped room full of Barons, and the only thing you can do is hold down CTRL.

[DeathevokatioN]

No that fight is not luck orientated. Get better at Doom.


Edit: I'd agree with you if you teleported into a room with 20 chaingunners facing you and no cover which would be a proper example of luck orientated.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

printz said:

It is worth wondering why they did that, and then considered it a good idea to keep. The reasoning that "ZDoom runs in high resolution and it would be visible" doesn't stand, considering that other ports are high-res too. In the end, all it does is make it easier for the player. Can be another reason not to play ZDoom unless it is required. Is there a compatibility setting for it, though?

This post explains all.

[MajorRawne]

Memfis said:

Most luck based battles turn into skill-based as you get better at the game. :)

It's funny, I am THE WORST dodger in the world, but when I'm down to 2% health and surrounded by monsters I spontaneously transform into DAVID HASSELHOFF: I become a living avatar of perfection, side-stepping blows that would normally have killed me, hosing the enemy with chaingun fire to prevent them from firing at me. I nearly finished the entire Living Room of Unloved on UV with 2% health remaining, before a bastard of an Imp brought my run to an end.

And if you want to know why I become THE HOFF rather than Chuck Norris, that's a family secret which must never be known to those who are not Rawnes.

EDIT: Back on topic, I hate crap 1994 maps that are uploaded just because they are Doom maps that were created and therefore they should be clogging up the archives.

[elic]

DeathevokatioN said:

No that fight is not luck orientated. Get better at Doom.

I just replayed that level and it wasn't as difficult as I remembered; I guess I wasn't as good back then (only a few months ago). You guys win :P

I still think there's many ways to make luck-oriented fights. For example, you could trap a player in a 32 by 32 unit cage and surround it with revenants. Or mancabi. Or Cyberdeamons. And Memento Mori MAP12 still sucks.

[Gez]

printz said:

The reasoning that "ZDoom runs in high resolution and it would be visible" doesn't stand, considering that other ports are high-res too.

The same logic can be applied to dismiss anything ZDoom does that other ports don't.

If other ports have features allowing to create maps with huge outdoor areas where you fight with scoped rifles and railguns, I'd expect them to increase the player range as well.

[Vermil]

In hindsight, it would have been better to have a range field on a_custombullet or similar IMO.

That way, the original Doom (and other games ZDoom supports) hitscan weapons could have their original behaviour, while a sniper rifle could indeed have an extended range.

Now days, we don't know how many ZDoom wads rely (or Vanilla wads that were mainly tested in ZDoom)on the altered behaviour. Though maybe ZDoom could have an internal compat option for known wads that rely on the altered behaviour.

Of course, all the above is easy to say; it's easy to say 'in hindsight' and I don't know how difficult it would be to code in pratice.

[Xaser]

Vermil said:

In hindsight, it would have been better to have a range field on a_custombullet or similar IMO.

The change predates DECORATE by a while, so there was no such alternative at the time.

[Dragonsbrethren]

killer2 said:

Sorry, but these are not problems related to the maps. Learn to play and dodge better, have better reaction times for these traps, or just play on an easier difficulty. You're one of that kind of people that piss me of. I bet you're playing on UV and won't change the difficulty if your life depended on it.

I'd like to see you dodge a hitscan attack.

[Acid]

What irritates me? Hmm...

Having every weapon with surplus amounts of ammo to fight like two zombiemen.

[40oz]

MajorRawne said:

It's funny, I am THE WORST dodger in the world, but when I'm down to 2% health and surrounded by monsters I spontaneously transform into DAVID HASSELHOFF: I become a living avatar of perfection, side-stepping blows that would normally have killed me, hosing the enemy with chaingun fire to prevent them from firing at me.

This is the reason I like to play Doom with no HUD. Knowing how much health and ammo is distracting. Just pretend you have 1% health all the time and infinite ammo.

Dragonsbrethren said:

I'd like to see you dodge a hitscan attack.

Getting out of the eyesight of a chaingunner is usually not very hard.

[Unholypimpin]

i hate it when mappers load up maps with cyberdemons and archviles in small rooms with no cover to boost difficulty.

[killer2]

Dragonsbrethren said:

I'd like to see you dodge a hitscan attack.

I also said "better reaction times" for chaingunner traps. The dodging part was for revenants.

[pcorf]

- Slaughter maps with thousands of monsters that cause considerable slowdown is a big no. The Nuts series is a good example.

- Unrealistic maps. A window with the sky and a room directly behind it does not make sense.

- Fully lit rooms with no lights. Doom is supposed to be a dark and atmospheric game. Rarely do I even do 255 brightness outdoor areas, often 160 or 176 is my preferred outdoor light level. It depends on the sky of course.

- Doortraks that are not lower unpegged, out of alignment teleporters to the grid, support textures not used to border different textures and so and so.