GENMIDI

[fraggle]

If you want a good laugh, check out the current entry for instrument #102. An easy way to hear it is to listen to E2M2 and wait a minute or so until it kicks in. I thought perhaps it was an error of some kind until I looked at the description in General MIDI - "FX 6 (goblins)".

[natt]

jute said:

The problem of dynamic levels in different MIDIs has been discussed before. Someone suggested writing a small program that would "normalize" all the MIDIs' note velocities to fall within some predefined range.

Could you elaborate on the problem please? Are Freedoom's midis just inconsistent?

[Csonicgo]

yeah when you use my instruments, fraggle, if you dare, the CSGxxxxx ones are the ones to use.

[shadow1013]

That's the problem! They are just inconsistent, because they came from completely different sources. And were composed at general different volumes

[hex11]

The music in this PWAD sounds much better with the old lump, IMO:
http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=11968

I don't know if you can correct that though. I think it also sounds worse with id's original lump.

[fraggle]

Csonicgo said:

yeah when you use my instruments, fraggle, if you dare, the CSGxxxxx ones are the ones to use.

Okay, thanks. That's useful to know. I did try hooking up a couple of the instruments into the new build system, but I was waiting for you to send me the final versions.

Also, it's not completely obvious which GM instrument each file is for. For example, there is CSGBASS.A2I - which of the eight bass instruments in General MIDI is that for? (Most of the others are similarly ambiguous). For the percussion instruments you also need to specify the MIDI note number to use.

The most helpful thing you could do would be to have a look in config.py and tell me what changes need to be made, or send me an updated version.

[Csonicgo]

fraggle said:

Okay, thanks. That's useful to know. I did try hooking up a couple of the instruments into the new build system, but I was waiting for you to send me the final versions.

Also, it's not completely obvious which GM instrument each file is for. For example, there is CSGBASS.A2I - which of the eight bass instruments in General MIDI is that for? (Most of the others are similarly ambiguous). For the percussion instruments you also need to specify the MIDI note number to use.

The most helpful thing you could do would be to have a look in config.py and tell me what changes need to be made, or send me an updated version.

Yeahh I'll get into that. Thing is, Music Technology classes this semester are really taxing me (already having to make some tracks the first week of school) and I gotta put this on the back burner for now. No rush though, I've already got started, so it became an obsession already naturally :)

[Csonicgo]

Ok, heres the deal.

I've taken a look at some of my patches, and not only are quite a few inconsistent, they're at different volumes entirely. To fix this would take some tweaking on my part.

I'll work in the ones I've already done, but most( hopefully) will be redone to fit the octaves on the Sound Canvas patches. I will number them instrxxx, starting at 001 and ending 128 ( 1 - based patches are the GM level 1 standard).

Wish me luck! I start today.

[fraggle]

Csonicgo said:

Wish me luck! I start today.

Great! Best of luck, and I for one look forward to seeing some soon!

I'll work in the ones I've already done, but most( hopefully) will be redone to fit the octaves on the Sound Canvas patches.

Sound Canvas patches?

[sgtcrispy]

Csonicgo said:

Wish me luck! I start today.

Give it hell! :)

[Csonicgo]

fraggle said:

Great! Best of luck, and I for one look forward to seeing some soon!

Sound Canvas patches?

Yes, since Essel gave me hell for this and told me the SC55 is what Bobby prince wanted doom to sound like (but has nothing to back that up, since SC55 sounds suck so much anyway) I am using those sounds as a "reference" to what the OPL patches should sound like.

[horncomposer]

Wow this is great to hear! Makes me want to go back and resume work on my personal GENMIDI project again (let's see if I can find my old files)....too bad I'm swamped with other projects though =(

One thing I do recommend, which is not in Fraggle's HTML guide, is for the instruments that can really use it, I'd recommend using Doom's unique 'doublevoice' flag. It's not really possible to edit both (at the same time) in AT2 but it's one of my favorite features which can really enhance the sound..... I had tried to use it for the electric DX7 piano, using one voice for the warm piano sound and another voice for that slight feedback heard several harmonics up when a note is played.

As for dynamic balance, I think a lot of it has to do with the instruments themselves.....there is a way to set the level in the OPL registers, but it also depends on the waveform and the amount of modulation between the operators...maybe it would be a good idea to somehow "normalize" the instrument volume too (though of course IRL there is a great deal of dynamic variation between instruments).

Btw, yeah sorry the percussion instruments I edited weren't necessarily finished lol. IIRC the cymbals really needed work......

Best of luck to everyone....I'll try to stop by here when I can.

[fraggle]

horncomposer said:

One thing I do recommend, which is not in Fraggle's HTML guide, is for the instruments that can really use it, I'd recommend using Doom's unique 'doublevoice' flag. It's not really possible to edit both (at the same time) in AT2 but it's one of my favorite features which can really enhance the sound..... I had tried to use it for the electric DX7 piano, using one voice for the warm piano sound and another voice for that slight feedback heard several harmonics up when a note is played.

Double voice definitely makes a lot of difference, yes. The config file I've come up with lets you specify two voices but you have to edit them separately.

Btw, yeah sorry the percussion instruments I edited weren't necessarily finished lol. IIRC the cymbals really needed work......

Well, from my perspective, they're definitely an improvement. The previous GENMIDI didn't even have any percussion - I had to disable the percussion instruments because the OpenBSD instruments were incomplete and needed tuning, which is beyond my skill set.

Thanks for your contributions, and if you do feel like helping out some more it would be greatly appreciated. I bet you and CSonicGo would make a great team!

[Csonicgo]

Since Summer is here, I'm picking this back up! Hoorah!

[fraggle]

Csonicgo said:

Since Summer is here, I'm picking this back up! Hoorah!

Great news!

If you're looking to prioritise which patches to look at first, I'd highly recommend looking at my earlier braindump post for inspiration. If possible, try eliminating as many of the OPL3 waveform warnings as you can - I did a few of them myself and noticed a big improvement.

These are the current remaining warnings I get at the moment:

instruments/instr008.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 5: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr008.sbi: Carrier uses waveform 5: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr021.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr021.sbi: Carrier uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr024.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr024.sbi: Carrier uses waveform 5: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr041.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr041.sbi: Carrier uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr042.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr042.sbi: Carrier uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr043.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr043.sbi: Carrier uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr063.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 5: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr063.sbi: Carrier uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr065.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 5: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr066.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 5: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr067.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 5: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr105.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr105.sbi: Carrier uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr106.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr111.sbi: Carrier uses waveform 5: only 0-3 supported

[Csonicgo]

fraggle said:

Great news!

If you're looking to prioritise which patches to look at first, I'd highly recommend looking at my earlier braindump post for inspiration. If possible, try eliminating as many of the OPL3 waveform warnings as you can - I did a few of them myself and noticed a big improvement.

These are the current remaining warnings I get at the moment:

instruments/instr008.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 5: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr008.sbi: Carrier uses waveform 5: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr021.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr021.sbi: Carrier uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr024.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr024.sbi: Carrier uses waveform 5: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr041.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr041.sbi: Carrier uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr042.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr042.sbi: Carrier uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr043.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr043.sbi: Carrier uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr063.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 5: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr063.sbi: Carrier uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr065.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 5: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr066.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 5: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr067.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 5: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr105.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr105.sbi: Carrier uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr106.sbi: Modulator uses waveform 4: only 0-3 supported
instruments/instr111.sbi: Carrier uses waveform 5: only 0-3 supported

ohhh yeah those. jesus christ I can get right on those right away.

[fraggle]

Csonicgo said:

Since Summer is here, I'm picking this back up! Hoorah!

Did you manage to get anywhere with this in the end?

[Darkcrafter07]

Could anyone please rip all of the original SBI files from both doom 1 and doom 2 genmidi lumps? Just wondering to ask cause I'm not a coder to use that converter from sourceforge.

[Darkcrafter07]

Yeah Registered just to make one post :D

There is no more places to ask for a help... Original Doom and Doom 2 genmidis are awesome! I just want to use these timbres with my music or whilst making midis for doom so I could monitor the resulting sound in doom with opl3 engaged.

[Gez]

Vadim said:

Could anyone please rip all of the original SBI files from both doom 1 and doom 2 genmidi lumps? Just wondering to ask cause I'm not a coder to use that converter from sourceforge.

It's not really ripping since the formats are different. I saw no mention of a GENMIDI-to-SBI converter. I suppose I could try to make one, it shouldn't be too hard as long as the same data is available on both sides.

There are a few problems, though:
1. GENMIDI has a double voice setting; SBI doesn't.
2. GENMIDI allows an instrument to have a fixed pitch (useful for percussions). SBI doesn't.
3. GENMIDI instruments have a base note offset. SBI doesn't.

Given these things, an accurate converter cannot be done. Are you still interested?

[fraggle]

There's a script in the Freedoom repository that will dump a GENMIDI lump to SBI files. Here's a dump of Doom's instruments. However, the limitations that Gez describes apply.

[Blastfrog]

FWIW I've been fiddling with Freedoom's instrument set, expect some revised stuff soon-ish.

[fraggle]

Nice, I look forward to it.

[Darkcrafter07]

Wow! Thanks for the dump, I'll take a look on that definetely. So I didn't know SBI and GENMIDI are so different though.

[Blastfrog]

Still plugging away at some instruments, slowly.

Something I've noticed in Chocolate Doom is many of the songs have too many active voices to all be heard at once in FM.

The music needs a pass done on it anyway to fix the volume inconsistency, may be a good idea to fix this excess voice problem too.

[fraggle]

That's just being true to Vanilla. The OPL2 only has a limited number of voices available (9, IIRC), so if you have too many notes at once eventually you hit a wall. I suggest turning on OPL3 mode in the setup tool, which should have the effect of doubling the number of available voices.

[Blastfrog]

I'd prefer to have songs that work in OPL2 mode. I'll certainly switch to OPL3 mode in Choco in the meantime, but if our target is vanilla then the assets should work as intended in real vanilla.

[fraggle]

OPL3 works in Vanilla too - you just need to set the right environment variable.

[Danfun64]

Sodaholic said:

I'd prefer to have songs that work in OPL2 mode. I'll certainly switch to OPL3 mode in Choco in the meantime, but if our target is vanilla then the assets should work as intended in real vanilla.

Would that be related to my "replace all midis with .mus files" suggestion that was turned down?

[Darkcrafter07]

Some of the GENMIDI dumped OPL3 SBI instruments were used here: https://soundcloud.com/pvdhp/the-struggle-for-freedom