Resources of mine not yet implemented

[Blastfrog]

I've submitted a few resources in the past that haven't gotten implemented. I assume that the reason is that they were just forgotten about or overlooked. I believe that these are definite improvements, and should be considered.


http://www.mediafire.com/?hom32sd3t6hckfk


The following is a list of resources, and why I believe they should replace the currently existing ones.


DSKEENxx - I've never seen the cartoon with the Doomworld fish in it, but the current sounds sound like they're speaking Japanese, and it has anime-like sound effects in it, so I assume it was from that show with the fish in it, which I remember that Keen was originally that fish in Freedoom, but was taken out due to copyright reasons. If those sounds are from that show, then it's in clear violation of copyright. Even if it isn't, they're very annoying, and I think these psuedo-retro sounds are more tolerable regardless.


DSBDxxx - The versions of the fast door sounds in Freedoom are far, far too long. I've sped these up, to be appropriate length


DSCLAW - Current version is too long, and sounds really, really terrible. This one is much nicer on the ears, and has far more of a "clawing" sound to it. This one I strongly suggest should be implemented, because it's a definite improvement in my (and I'm sure many people's) opinion.


DSSGTSIT - Current version is very soft and weak soudning, doesn't fit the enemy that it goes to, and players are unlikely to hear it amidst combat and music playing in the background. The version that I'm submitting sounds more fitting to the enemy, and sounds less wimpy.


DSSGTDTH - Current version sounds fine for the most part, but I thought it felt a little empty. I mixed the current sound in with some slight roaring, to make it sound a little more satisfying when the monster is killed.


DSSAWxxx - Current sounds sound very tinny, light, and don't pack a lot of "punch", making the weapon feel weak and crappy during gameplay. They also sound very indistinct from each other. The idle sound doesn't have a proper "shutting down" sound to it after the loop point, instead just cutting off, whereas my version takes this into account. I know that my sounds sound like a chainsaw and not a sawblade, but who says there can't be a motorized sawblade in the futuristic environment Freedoom takes place in? :P Besides, it's a video game, who cares if it sounds like a different tool, as long as it sounds close enough. Still sounds like a tool for cutting things.

I don't feel as strongly about this one, but I still think it's a needed improvement.


RW18_3 - The original was fine for the most part, but it appears to have suffered some color degradation, so I mixed in parts of RW18_4 to make it look smoother and better. This one I insist should be implemented, because it's undenianbly an improvement.


CONS1_x - The original is fucking awful. This one is much, much better, and I insist that it be considered for implementation, as it's a very clear improvement.


FLAT10 - Original had some ugly red pixels at the bottom for some reason. I've kept it identical, except replaced the red pixels with brown ones, it looks much better. I insist that this be implemented, as it's an undeniable improvement.


W33_8 - Doom's version is grey concrete, Freedoom's version is a metal strip with warning stripes on it. This is not really a good idea, in my opinion. My version is grey concrete, like Doom's, it's very consistent with Freedoom's appearance. I strongly suggest that this one's implemented, but I don't feel as strongly about it as other resources. I still really think that the original material and appearances of textures should never be significantly changed. Similar but different is good, unrecognizably different is bad.

[Blastfrog]

So, can I have anyone's opinion of these resources?


I don't feel as strong about the sounds (except for the clawing and fast door sounds, those really need committed), but I do feel very strongly about the first three graphic submissions on the list (and I'd like to see the 4th one in, but I don't feel as strong about it being committed).

I feel strongly about FLAT10 because it's a definite improvement (I can't possibly imagine anyone preferring the current version). I especially can't imagine anyone preferring the original computer console flats. The brown rocks are a minor improvement, but I would like to see them in anyway, to improve consistency with the rest of the rock texture graphics.

Seriously, which do you think should be in Freedoom?

[Blastfrog]

Can anyone give their two cents on these resources? Even just one person?

[NoWits]

Downloaded these, checked them out. Here's my opinions.

DSBD sounds: these work a lot better than the old sounds, although I still think seperate sounds for them would be better. Something like a quick swipe up and down. The thing is, the door sounds used in freedoom are too long to be used as fast door sounds.

DSSAW sounds: These sounds are certainly better. Although, they make the saw blade sound like it has a petrol engine. I guess that was the style you were going for though. Certainly has a much better punch to them. DSSAWFUL sounds a bit too much like the original Doom's DSSAWHIT though...

DSCLAW: A hundred times better than the current DSCLAW. Actually sounds like scratching, as opposed to hitting a sheet of paper with a hammer or something.

DSSGT sounds: I always thought the DSSGTSIT was an unnatural sounding hum, and DSSGTDTH was a kind of squeal, and I was surprised to see they were replaced with much shittier sounds for some reason. These are much better than the ones that are currently in there. I find DSSGTSIT somewhat familiar... although it could be some other sound I heard that sounds similar. (edit: it was from an older sound WAD you put on these forums.)

DSKEENPN and DSKEENDT are already in the freedoom IWAD! (I downloaded a daily build a couple of days ago.)

[RjY]

cons1_{1,5,7,9}:

Hmm, those are prdarkfox's aren't they? I've had them in a holding queue since last year, I believe I was waiting for Catoptromancy to decide what to do with them.

Also I disagree with your statement that the existing consoles are "fucking awful". Yours are just a bit more colourful and would stand out more.



w33_8:

I'm not sure what this is meant to solve, other than "it's bad because it doesn't look like Doom" ? I suppose it might make the texture harder to align horizontally. Can you show anywhere where it causes a real problem?



rw18_3:

This is so similar to the existing version that I really can't see the point in changing it. I can't tell the difference unless I put them side-by-side, and even then.

Again, if you could show where/how the existing patch causes a real problem, it would be appreciated.



The rest of this stuff is fine, I guess. I did wonder about that pattern of red dots on FLAT10. Also DSDMACT might take some getting used to, especially since it's used by so many monsters, but whatever.

[Blastfrog]

Thank you guys for responding.

Nixot said:

DSBD sounds: these work a lot better than the old sounds, although I still think seperate sounds for them would be better. Something like a quick swipe up and down. The thing is, the door sounds used in freedoom are too long to be used as fast door sounds.

Exactly why I replaced them, they were way to long. I dunno about an entirely new sound, but it's not a big deal.

Nixot said:

DSKEENPN and DSKEENDT are already in the freedoom IWAD! (I downloaded a daily build a couple of days ago.)

These were resubmitted before I made the accompanying graphics. They were only included in the Keen Cat WAD for convenience, but they got committed from that WAD anyway.

RjY said:

cons1_{1,5,7,9}:

Hmm, those are prdarkfox's aren't they? I've had them in a holding queue since last year, I believe I was waiting for Catoptromancy to decide what to do with them.

Also I disagree with your statement that the existing consoles are "fucking awful". Yours are just a bit more colourful and would stand out more.

Yes, they are ProjectDarkFox's work (I did do some modification to make it look more metallic though, regardless, he gets most of the credit). I called the existing ones awful because I feel that it has a very dull, sloppy appearance (this is why PDF created these in the first place, he agreed with that the Freedoom version sucked, and didn't want to use them for the TSAT game).

RjY said:

w33_8:

I'm not sure what this is meant to solve, other than "it's bad because it doesn't look like Doom" ? I suppose it might make the texture harder to align horizontally. Can you show anywhere where it causes a real problem?

It's bad because it's an entirely different appearance than what was originally meant. Is it excusable to turn a futuristic and shiny metallic door into rotting wooden castle doors? Absolutely not, in my opinion. Freedoom shouldn't be a total clone of Doom (unlike my stance from last year), but really, we shouldn't be dramatically changing things.

How about a compromise? Perhaps we could take the current W33_8 patch, rename it to W338FRDM, and make a duplicate texture of the texture that already uses it, changing it to use the renamed patch instead. Then all Freedoom maps that currently use the texture with concrete and warning stripes could have all instances of the original texture replaced with the new custom texture.

This way, the Freedoom maps that use the warning stripes will not be affected, and PWADs using the original texture will have their proper material appearance.

[i]rw18_3:

This is so similar to the existing version that I really can't see the point in changing it. I can't tell the difference unless I put them side-by-side, and even then.[/B]

You may be asking "why change it if it's not a big difference?", but I say why not? Regardless of how small of a change it is, it's still an undeniable improvement, and doesn't take much effort at all to commit a single patch. My nitpickiness will not allow me to rest until this is implemented. :P But no, seriously, this literally was a degraded graphic, and I restored it's missing shades.

[Blastfrog]

So, has the staff decided on implementing or rejecting any of these?

If any were rejected, what are the reasons for that?

[wesleyjohnson]

Changing the computer console flats will affect every wad that uses pieces of them. See Map09, the water treatment plant control room.
Please do not change these flats right before release, because then such uses will no longer align.

The top of the original computer flat is the keyboard (IMO).
I use that as a keyboard. What have you done to it?

It takes a long time to decide if flat changes break anything.
To get a new look, one has to carefully align the object to where the flat presents an appropriate graphic. If you change the object positions in a flat by even one pixel, I will have to find every place where I used some part of it, such as the reading tablet on the table in the secure lab (MAP09).

w33_8: The use and feel of Doom2 textures and flats must be approximated because so many PWAD depend upon them. Should not be replacing a wood texture with a metal one. This should be fixed even at the cost of another texture or flat. A radical difference between Doom2 and FreeDoom changes the PWAD designers intent, and it should not radically different by whim. There are too many PWAD to go searching for cases where it is used..

[Blastfrog]

wesleyjohnson said:

Changing the computer console flats will affect every wad that uses pieces of them. See Map09, the water treatment plant control room.
Please do not change these flats right before release, because then such uses will no longer align.

The alignment was already quite off between the current Freedoom CONS1_x flats and the commercial Doom version.

That does remind me though, last year I was actually going to make a WAD with properly aligned flats, since I noticed that some were incorrectly aligned. Never got around to it, maybe I will now.

[Blastfrog]

Sodaholic said:

So, has the staff decided on implementing or rejecting any of these?

If any were rejected, what are the reasons for that?

Sorry about that, I haven't checked the changelog in a while. I can see that my resources have been implemented.

Anyway, I'm curious why RW18_3 wasn't implemented. It's nearly identical, so there should be no objections to not implementing it because of being largely different. I mean, sure it's only a small improvement, but it's an improvement nonetheless, I wonder why it wasn't implemented.

[wesleyjohnson]

Will this make it more compatible with Doom2 console graphics?
There are several keyboards in Map09 and Map13 use that upper portion as a keyboard.
I do not know of any other flat with anything that looks like a keyboard.

Edit: There seems to be two threads on this subject, and I no longer can guess what has been submitted, or is current.

[Blastfrog]

Did you see my flat submission thread? I made a version that uses the exact same alignment as the Freedoom version.

[RjY]

The difference appears to be that rw18_3_soda has a slight yellowish greenish tinge to it. Sodaholic feels this is an improvement; going purely by appearance, with no other factors, I could neither agree nor disagree. It's just different, but, I think, hardly noticably so.

Sodaholic says above "it [rw18_3] appears to have suffered some color degradation, so I mixed in parts of RW18_4 to make it look smoother and better". But if the colour has degraded, this begs the question, what has it degraded from? I believe we can assume the original patch's author (fraggle) made it from scratch.¹

Furthermore and possibly more importantly the above image shows that the original rw18_3 is a better match for the colour of rw18_4, which does not have the yellowgreenish tint.²

—
¹ If I may speculate baselessly, given Sodaholic's previous record I suspect he is comparing with the original game's rw18_3, but I have not looked into it.

² Not to mention, how he managed to get such a tinge when the thing he mixed from doesn't have it, is beyond me...

[Blastfrog]

I'm confused how the hell that yellowish tint got in there. My only guess is that since I made it for TSAT, and it had an alternate version of the Doom palette, but I thought that I had imported it using the normal Doom palette.

Either way, disregard that version, I have no idea how that yellow tint got in there.

When I said that it's colors were degraded, I meant that it lost detail somehow compared to rw18_4. I'll submit a new version later today.

[Blastfrog]

Okay, here's the new version. As I said, disregard the version in the WAD that I uploaded.