Is Hexen forgotten?

[Dragonsbrethren]

Puzzles aren't the problem. Horribly designed switch hunt puzzles are the problem.

[Vaporizer]

.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

One reason for almost no big Hexen projects is there isn't enough weapons, monsters or graphic themes to make a full megawad out of. The original spreads stuff out thinly over 5 hubs and Deathkings packs it all into 3 hubs, which is the better size overall IMO. Unless ofc you add a ton of stuff to it (like myself and Ichor did), in which case you can go all the way.

Vordakk said:

HeXen gets a lot of hate from people who have an aversion to using their brains on a video game. I'm not saying it's perfect, but I think certain people dislike it for the same reason they dislike Eternal DOOM: significant puzzle elements.

Not to mention the combat, ie. "OMG why does my fist/axe/mace not fire bullets!!!111" *gets killed off melee mob and ragequits*

(btw the difference between puzzles in Hexen and Eternal Doom is that Hexen usually gives you a scripted clue eg. "stones grind on the seven portals")

[Fletcher`]

The Ultimate DooMer said:

Not to mention the combat, ie. "OMG why does my fist/axe/mace not fire bullets!!!111" *gets killed off melee mob and ragequits*

Cursed is a mix of this and heretic's projectile weapon. Though you will use melee a lot so get used to it. :P

[Harmata]

Vordakk said:

HeXen gets a lot of hate from people who have an aversion to using their brains on a video game. I'm not saying it's perfect, but I think certain people dislike it for the same reason they dislike Eternal DOOM: significant puzzle elements.

I don't think that Hexen or any other id tech 1 game ever positioned itself as a "game for brain". Hexen from the start looks like hack and slash game, gameplay proves initial impression, and then extremely heavy switch huntin' kills gameplay. I couldn't find the last one or two switches on that hub with chapels (wolf chapel, dragon chapel, gryphon's chapel, if i remember it right), nocliped to the exit portal, knowing already that i don't want to spend more time on this game, and the first thing i see on the next level is a gate and two small green switches near it. Like, right in front of you right from the start, you don't even need to search for them or find out how to open the gate, you just need to use them. So where's the part with brain work? Switches, switches, switches...

I don't get why they couldn't make a handy message log, for all the "a small grey stone plate shifted somewhere on the seven portals, now go look for it, dickweed".

[Simon666]

Never played Hexen since it doesn't appeal to me
and Heretic is quite a boring game, but forgotten? I don't think so!

[NaturalTvventy]

I'm casting my vote on the boring/crap/garbage side. Graphics look bad to me. Very cartoony, with no sense of menace. Inventory system bugs me. Extra button to use items; it feels awkward. In short, nothing compares to the Ultimate DOOM!

[Avoozl]

Am I the only one who likes Hexen moreso than Heretic?

[The Ultimate DooMer]

rf` said:

Cursed is a mix of this and heretic's projectile weapon. Though you will use melee a lot so get used to it. :P

I use melee more than most, it was more of a stab at the unwillingness to adapt to non-Doom gameplay :P

[Martin Howe]

Vordakk said:

HeXen gets a lot of hate from people who have an aversion to using their brains on a video game. I'm not saying it's perfect, but I think certain people dislike it for the same reason they dislike Eternal DOOM: significant puzzle elements.

And I am one of those people, which is why I lament Hexen. Great monsters and environment but too many bloody puzzles. When I want cerebral enjoyment, it is not to games that I turn; for me, thinking is for serious business.

Video games are IMO for simple combat with demons and monsters, with the odd simple puzzle thrown in to liven things up. There's no enjoyment gained from solving convoluted puzzles in the middle of an action video game - it's like putting tomato ketchup on ice cream :)

Nor is it fun wandering a maze of dead monsters trying to figure out how the hell to exit. At the very least it should not be needed to solve a horrendous puzzle simply to progress through the maps.

[bimlanders]

What about Hexen 2 and Heretic 2? Now those ARE forgotten games. I play Heretic from time to time, but I never finished Hexen. Hexen has great visuals and atmosphere, but I dislike the puzzle solving, going back and forth gameplay. When I get confused, and stuck, I tend to give up.

[CODOR]

Avoozl said:
Am I the only one who likes Hexen moreso than Heretic?

No, I like them both but I think Hexen is the more interesting game.

Disclaimer: I've never finished either one :-P

[Use]

The mere fact that anyone finds pushing switches in Hexen difficult is just mind-boggling.

[printz]

Use3D said:

The mere fact that anyone finds pushing switches in Hexen difficult is just mind-boggling.

It's hard for them to find them, which is not a very strong excuse, because they're detectable on the map. If I'm not wrong, they're all recessed like in Heretic.

[kristus]

In Hexen, there's a few switches in the game that is hard to find when you don't know where they are. But they are quite rare.

[Vermil]

HeXen is a good game, but it perhaps doesn't make a great first impression; i.e the first part of the game is it's weaker part.

[elic]

Heretic's weapons are boring and its textures get repetitive after a while, but it has much better level design than both Doom and Doom II IMO. Haven't played Hexen, but I really like Eternal Doom style stuff, so I'm looking forward to when I have a chance.

Are there any Heretic or Hexen source ports similar to Prboom+, i.e. better screen resolution than the original games, removal of annoying savegame bugs, but still complete demo compatibility?

[yellowmadness54]

kristus said:

In Hexen, there's a few switches in the game that is hard to find when you don't know where they are.

O RLY?

[Gez]

Processingcontrol said:

Are there any Heretic or Hexen source ports similar to Prboom+, i.e. better screen resolution than the original games, removal of annoying savegame bugs, but still complete demo compatibility?

No, and given Heretic 1.3 doesn't have demo compatibility with the IWAD demos, it'd be difficult.

[Quasar]

Gez said:

No, and given Heretic 1.3 doesn't have demo compatibility with the IWAD demos, it'd be difficult.

That's only cuz those demos are from the 1.2 (possibly even 1.1) IWAD. They forgot to update them for whatever weird changes were made in the later versions ;)

[40oz]

kristus said:

In Hexen, there's a few switches in the game that is hard to find when you don't know where they are. But they are quite rare.

In my case I spent a lot of the game not even knowing what I was supposed to be doing. The levels were nonlinear and it wasn't long after the seven portals part that I found myself running around the same areas many times to see if there were any rooms I missed of switches I forgot to press or keys I didn't pick up or something. Occasionally I'll find one spot I kept overlooking, but when you spend a half hour doing nothing, your attention to dodging fireballs and stuff seems to drift a lot, so when I finally do find out where I need to go, I get surrounded by monsters and get slain real fast.

[elic]

Gez said:

No, and given Heretic 1.3 doesn't have demo compatibility with the IWAD demos, it'd be difficult.

That sucks.

Are there at least any high-resolution ports that don't make any noticeable changes to the gameplay?

[abyrvalg]

Use zdoom, it handles Hexen perfectly fine. Jumping probably feels a little bit different, but other than that, no real changes.
Also, i love Hexen, and often find myself feeling like playing it. I've probably finished the game like 20 times by now (more than vanilla doom). Even finished it with girlfriend in coop-mode last year and she liked it, hehe, though it was me who did all the switch-hunting. I find Hexen's puzzles to be very clear - once you find one or two buttons (and the first ones are usually obvious), you know in which levels the rest should be. There are few buttons which are difficult to find, but i never found it boring to search for them, since the atmosphere is so amazing in this game, and monsters respawn from time to time, keeping the gameplay flow even if you're stuck.

[elic]

Doesn't zdoom extend the freelook range further up and down than in the original games? Also it'd be a huge pain in the ass trying to find out which compatibility settings apply to the two games.

[Lila Feuer]

Never had any problems with this game save for the final room on The Gibbet via Hub 4: Castle of Grief.

[kristus]

40oz said:

In my case I spent a lot of the game not even knowing what I was supposed to be doing. The levels were nonlinear and it wasn't long after the seven portals part that I found myself running around the same areas many times to see if there were any rooms I missed of switches I forgot to press or keys I didn't pick up or something. Occasionally I'll find one spot I kept overlooking, but when you spend a half hour doing nothing, your attention to dodging fireballs and stuff seems to drift a lot, so when I finally do find out where I need to go, I get surrounded by monsters and get slain real fast.

I'm not saying it's easy really. Just that (almost) everything got clues on how to progress. The puzzles in themselves are easy. It's more a matter of seeing the pattern of how they distribute the switches and where they are supposed to be.

Off the top of my head, I can only think of one switch that is placed seemingly completely randomly and awkward. And that's a switch to a secret passage in the map Dungeons (Map25). This switch is imperative to progressing in the game. And it's very hard to spot.

Other than that, there's of course the bug with the Heresiarch in the Heresiarch seminar hub that can be a problem.

[Vermil]

Processingcontrol said:

That sucks.

Are there at least any high-resolution ports that don't make any noticeable changes to the gameplay?

WHeretic for Heretic. A long long forgotten very short lived port, but it's probably near perfectly faithful. Perhaps because of how short lived it was.

In terms of active major ports; Doomsday is probably about as faithful as your going to get and even that extends the freelook range.

One day though, Chocolate Heretic and HeXen will probably be completed.

[ReFracture]

Hexen lives on in an N64 cartridge in my bin of many N64 cartridges.

Ok seriously.. I beat Hexen in recent years. A fun game with some annoying levels at times. I generally stick to playing those IDTech 1 games in Dosbox, generally only using ports for Doom.

[Gez]

Vermil said:

One day though, Chocolate Heretic and HeXen will probably be completed.

But ChocoRaven is like ChocoDoom for the Raven games, instead of like PrBoom+. So, no limit-removal, no high resolution, etc.

[_bruce_]

Tried a few times to make it through it - no chance.
Artwork is so so except for the HUD player sprites.