Partial Invisibility VS. Computer Area Map; which is more useless?

[Snakes]

Anyone who describes the partial invisibility as pointless/useless hasn't put enough thought into the various scenarios one can generate via their use. One of the only time that a partial invisibility has a negative effect is when there are mancubi involved and very few places to hide from them. A combination of being patient and abusing a monster's pain chance should take care of most others.

Hell, there are plenty of ways you could use it to create a risk/reward scenario as well. Chaingunners and mancubi nearby with little-to-no chance of infighting. Take it and the projectiles become super-unpredictable. Leave it and you'll risk getting chewed up.

Okay, I'm now officially using that in a map.

[schwerpunk]

CAM is my favourite power-up in the entire game, because secrets are one of my favourite areas of maps, even if they're not always 100% useful.

I just like exploring the architecture.

[rkdoomguy]

I would say the PI is more useless. When I reach the exit to a level, I can then use the CAM to see if I have forgotten some secret areas. Of course, I don't use it often because I've played Doom so much that I know where most of everything is, but newer players can find that more handy.

The PI for me only makes projectiles go past the side of me, and I am so used to dodging them that I move just as the enemy moves to attack. And I get hit. Plus, they are not usually placed near corridor scenarios, usually in open spaces, and I haven't really had much relief from hitscan attacks before.

[Avoozl]

One beneficial use for partial invisibility would have be sneaking past monsters to obtain items.

[Leon]

I prefer the Computer map- I never have to use the map but I see it more useful than the PI

[Enjay]

I find the computer map useful - especially if I am exploring a non-linear very large map. It shows the areas that I haven't yet explored.

The partial invisibility is sometimes more of a liability than a bonus. Because it randomises the direction enemies shoot in, I often start my dodge when I see the enemy going into its attack phase and neatly dodge right into the path of the randomised attack whereas I would have gotten out of the way of the unrandomised one. The only time it helps is in a hitscan attack where there is little or no cover because it means that hitscan attacks that would have hit you get randomised and so some of them miss.

[Maes]

Invisibility. I can think no positive effect to the gameplay whatsoever, except for disrupting monster attack patterns in an unpredictable way which often ends up doing more harm than good, especially since it's so counter-intuitive to the usual dodging skills.

At least with the computer map you may be able to uncover a secret or two...

[Clonehunter]

I'd say PI is more uselss, because I go out of my way t avoid them. Not because I think it'll be harder fr me, but I just don't like the effect it makes. It's annoying to look at.
(In which case I guess its not useless, I just don't like them)

[Obsidian]

I used to think the PI was completely useless before I played Scythe: MAP27 is badass at the end with the 3 Cybs shooting all over the place. I'd say the partial invisibility is useful for mappers if they want to make things a little more unpredictable. Having said that, I like the CAM more in gameplay due to it making ferreting out secrets easier.

[Leon]

Computer maps do come into play for me sometimes- depending on the size of the map.

[Avoozl]

I don't think PI was intended for fighting with anyway, just pointless sneaking.

[Leon]

Plus we are viewed as sceptres when we're using partial invisibility so they can still see us. Only really benefitial in the dark

[schwerpunk]

Leon said:

Plus we are viewed as sceptres when we're using partial invisibility so they can still see us. Only really benefitial in the dark

Does it make the monsters shooter even more wildly if you're in a dark area? I thought it just added a static variable that made them miss more often, regardless of lighting conditions.

[ComicMischief]

Partial Invisibility is only of any use when you're surrounded by hitscanners -- chaingunngers will only hit home about 1/5 of the time and that 'scatter' they have going on can cause a LOT of infighting.

Computer Area Map, great for large labyrinthine stages (especially if they're poorly landmarked).

Neither are useless per se. It's up to the mapper to utilise them well.

[Ashley_Pomeroy]

printz said:

Partial Invincibility would be more convincing if instead of making monsters spread their sights and attacks, it would simply make monsters perceive your coordinates as offset from the real position.

I've always assumed it was a homage to Predator - specifically the bit where Arnie and co start shooting wildly into the jungle as the Predator makes his escape. The effect even looks similar.

Now, imagine if the designers had gone the whole hog, and combined the berzerk power-up with the partial invisibility, so that when you were invisible your punches were amplified four-fold. You could dash up to the enemy and gib them without them realising, and then laugh as they go splutch.

On a tangent, I've always wondered if the team intended for the light-amp to look like Predator vision, but they either didn't have the time or decided to speed things up and just turn off the lightmap instead. It comes across as a surprisingly mundane effect.

[termrork]

play deathmatch with vanilla doom, pick up an invisibility sphere and your oponent will hardly see you anymore (if the map is not too bright)
for example doom2 map03, you (at least me) barely have a chance to see him

the higher resolution and also because of other graphics made the invisibility in deathmatch almost useless

[Pirx]

Ashley_Pomeroy said:

I've always assumed it was a homage to Predator - specifically the bit where Arnie and co start shooting wildly into the jungle as the Predator makes his escape. The effect even looks similar.

i've always seen the invis powerup like that. the player is visible only as a blur, it's a pretty natural reaction to fire wildly in his general direction when you can't see him clearly. the "invisibility" in quake was much worse in comparison.

Now, imagine if the designers had gone the whole hog, and combined the berzerk power-up with the partial invisibility, so that when you were invisible your punches were amplified four-fold. You could dash up to the enemy and gib them without them realising, and then laugh as they go splutch.

seconded. pretty much "play doom as the predator".

on topic, it depends much on the map which of these two i prefer. on complex maps with lots of secrets, definitely the automap. even finding it (in a secret area, mostly) feels rewarding because it's like a key to the better hidden parts of the map. invisibility is for taking on lots of hitscanners, or speedrunning a map.

[Catoptromancy]

PI is critical in some maps. Specifically when the mapper makes ridiculous single chance run through horde of chaingunners or spiders, sometimes other hitscanners. Without PI it would be near instant death.

So in theory map is more useless. But can save drastic amount of time and can save infinite amount of time in certain maps where areas are so hidden that mapper gave the CAM so rest of map could be found.

[Memfis]

Heh, I don't like to use computer map because I usually record demos when I play, and if I will stare at the map for too long without doing anything it will annoy the viewer. :)

[Tristan]

Doesn't really answer the question, but Partial Invisibility become Allies on Brutal Doom, although I guess that implies that PI is worse. I actually just played Map07 of Doom II on Brutal, and completed the level using the marines only (and one of them died before i released it). They annihalated the mancubi before I even knew where the hell I was.

[ella guro]

i never thought partial invisibility was particularly useful. they should've just given you full invisibility and made it last a little shorter.

[waverider]

I can see the use of both items, the least useful of the two is the PI I think.

[Archy]

In Deathmatch, the PI actually works like a PI -- it's far from useless.

[ella guro]

Archy said:

In Deathmatch, the PI actually works like a PI -- it's far from useless.

that actually makes perfect sense. i don't know why they couldn't have made it a multi-player only item though. (same with the Holoduke from DN3D)

[Tristan]

ella guro said:

that actually makes perfect sense. i don't know why they couldn't have made it a multi-player only item though. (same with the Holoduke from DN3D)

Holoduke is even worse than PI, at least PI throws their accuracy off. Holoduke just creates a projection of you that the aliens don't even bother to look at

[DoomUK]

computer area map

useless

Does not.......... compute.

[Tristan]

DoomUK said:

That guy is on Berserk?

[amputechture32]

Archy said:

In Deathmatch, the PI actually works like a PI -- it's far from useless.

Except in Doom95 deathmatch, where it could be considered a powerdown. ;)

Eris Falling said:

Holoduke is even worse than PI, at least PI throws their accuracy off. Holoduke just creates a projection of you that the aliens don't even bother to look at

IIRC, Holoduke was actually useful in single player, but solely against Octabrains.

[Khorus]

A minor benefit of PI is it makes shooting monsters on a lower elevation a little easier with your weapon being partially invisible and all. I can appreciate both items, but the PI equivalent in heretic certainly has more use with it making non-magic attacks pass through you (those damn red axes!).

[Gez]

Yeah, the shadowsphere is a nice trump card against hordes of undead warriors and ghost knights. As long as they don't close up to engage you in melee, they are harmless for the duration of the powerup.