I think I officially hate nukage

[qoncept]

Maybe someone can tell me the point. To me, the only time it makes sense is as punishment for going somewhere you shouldn't. Fall off a ledge, instead of dying you have a chance to come back with less life.

What drives me crazy is long stretches of level where you HAVE to walk through nukage. Usually there's a suit nearby, which means you notice it and it doesn't matter that there's nukage or you're frustrated as hell. Especially awful in maps you don't know well so you're trying to explore.

FWIW, I also absolutely hate nukage pits you can't get out of. Pointless.

[purist]

It can add an extra dimension to gameplay in a couple of ways I can think of off the top of my head.

1. Restricts movement by allowing extra space but at the cost of health or by forcing a player away from certain areas.

2. Adds a time-pressure. So the player must kill a blocking monster before he dies or before his rad suit expires.

[TwinBeast]

I like it, but I hate it when it's not obvious if some other liquid is damaging or not.. like in one level blood is not damaging, but then in the next level it is damaging, or maybe even in the same level there are pools of blood that are damaging and some that aren't.

Then I also hate it when it looks like it should do just 5 points damage, but when I step on it, it does 20!

[ComicMischief]

Nukage can be a great way for the level designer to remove 'safe' areas in battle and force the player to fight in certain confines; or to control the amount of health/armour a player has by forcing a walk through nukage with health pickups to balance the health (Halls of the Damned springs to mind here, maybe it was intended to reduce whatever armour the player had so that an early demon encounter would sting a little more?)

Nukage with a suit may provide a soft time-limit to fighting in a particular area -- you either beat the monsters under a certain time, or you get punished.

Right with you on the pits that hold you until you die though. They're just bad.

EDIT:
Ninja'd by purist. Dang. Ah well, confirmation on that one. ;)

[qoncept]

Jimi said:

I like it, but I hate it when it's not obvious if some other liquid is damaging or not..

I played Doom for SNES just once because of this.

[Acid]

Durrrrr Refinery #11230651 nukage pits errwheere

As long as there any sort of ledges or an abundant amount of radsuits, I'm fine.

[Maes]

qoncept said:

What drives me crazy is long stretches of level where you HAVE to walk through nukage. Usually there's a suit nearby, which means you notice it and it doesn't matter that there's nukage or you're frustrated as hell. Especially awful in maps you don't know well so you're trying to explore.

Even worse when due to oversight of the author, an insufficient number of suits is provided in such places, forcing you to speedrun certain areas or else take damage.

[printz]

qoncept said:

FWIW, I also absolutely hate nukage pits you can't get out of. Pointless.

Those are some of the many things in Doom that keep it from being an addictive game.

[Maes]

qoncept said:

FWIW, I also absolutely hate nukage pits you can't get out of. Pointless.

Same goes for "point of no return" puzzles that lock up a part of the level if you screw up. Unacceptable if said part is required in order to reach the exit...

[qoncept]

Maes said:

Same goes for "point of no return" puzzles that lock up a part of the level if you screw up. Unacceptable if said part is required in order to reach the exit...

Not a fan of rooms that lock out your buddy in multiplayer either. Pretty sure we've had to restart (read: skip) some levels because one of us died in a room like that.

[Use]

Like anything in a map, there's right ways to use it and annoying ways. I personally like nukage and other liquids. Inescapable pits don't bother me either, since I'm so familiar with the game's movement. I do appreciate various indications that pits are deadly, either from the danger sign textures nearby or bodies in the ooze.

[ComicMischief]

I think another 'use' for nukage from a level-designer perspective, is to 'steer' the player somewhat; let's say you have two corridors available to explore, one with nukage and one without. I don't know about you, but I'm more likely to go right down the nukage-free one, even if I return to the other one later.

I'm in agreement that there are 'right' and 'wrong' ways for mappers to use it.

As for damaging/non-damaging, I find that the context of a map should seal the deal here. Non-damaging fluids can add atmosphere and a sense of location to the proceedings, but there should be some consistency. If they have to be mixed up, I'd say that water=safe and blood/slime=damaging works for Earth/space scenarios but hell could even work with blood=safe and water/slime=damaging and still be believable. It's pure context.

As for lava, it should ALWAYS do the full damage. Always.

[Acid]

I end up cheating and flying out of a nukage pit if it's a dead end.

Not a fan of rooms that lock out your buddy in multiplayer either. Pretty sure we've had to restart (read: skip) some levels because one of us died in a room like that.

I agree too. Despite the numerous map fixes (HR2 especially), things are bound to be broken.

[NiuHaka]

Personally I love "nukage" floors but like others have said, inconsistent use of damaging floors is frustrating. In my opinion the only floors that should ever do damage are Nuke, Blood and Lava. All waters blue and brown should always remain safe.

[Maes]

NiuHaka said:

All waters blue and brown should always remain safe.

Even really brown ones? ;-)

[40oz]

I like nukage. I don't like the electrical panels in Containment Area. 2-5 damage is okay, 20 is ridiculous. But I like to use nukage for generally the same reasons purist and comic mischief said. I like it as a deterrent from secret areas. I also like how it can complicate gameplay. I think the nukage in MAP11: Circle of Death is a huge factor in making the Pain Elementals as threatening as they are in that map. (Otherwise you could just get up in it's face and make him defenseless.)

[kmxexii]

My favorite maps in Chris Klie's BF_THUD! megaWAD are built around damage floors.

[NiuHaka]

Maes said:

Even really brown ones? ;-)

Crap! I'm receiving damage right now just from the name of that one.

[Scypek2]

I don't really know what slime should damage and what one shouldn't :\

[printz]

I think I love nukage in Doom. It's a malevolent element which persists can't be fought.

[qoncept]

I also didn't like the random meteors and lightning strikes in Scorch.

[schwerpunk]

Inescapable Nukage pits should be instant death, or at least have a chance to escape. Though as a mapper, I'm against punishing the player with guaranteed death because of foot misstep. Especially since it disadvantages no-mlook players.

[Xaser]

Nukage is cool if used properly, IMO, because it actually opens avenues for attack, not seals them off. My rationale is that nukage is a player-blocking element much in the same way that a wall is, with the (rather obvious) exception that the player can choose to ignore the barrier and open up some fighting/exploring ground at the cost of taking some damage. When viewed that way, you end up with more potential tactics for ridding a room of monsters (or making a desperate escape) than you would if you considered the alternative to make said pit bordered by impassible railings. ;)

[Phobus]

schwerpunk said:

Inescapable Nukage pits... ...a chance to escape.

Does not compute!

[NiTROACTiVE]

Nukage isn't too bad to me, but sometimes walking through nukage can sometimes be hard depending on the amount of radiations suits there are.

But you know what's crazy? Sometimes blood can hurt you, and I'm not sure why. Could it be because it's not Doomguy's bloodtype or what? But you know what's even crazier? I heard of WADs that have water that hurts you! Could it be because that the water is unholy or what?

But like I said, nukage is sometimes good and/or bad depending on the level.

[Maes]

NitroactiveStudios said:

But you know what's crazy? Sometimes blood can hurt you, and I'm not sure why. Could it be because it's not Doomguy's bloodtype or what?

It has AIDS.

NitroactiveStudios said:

But you know what's even crazier? I heard of WADs that have water that hurts you! Could it be because that the water is unholy or what?

Could have extreme amounts of chlorine or cyanide, or simply be too hot/cold.

[Vordakk]

Xaser said:

My rationale is that nukage is a player-blocking element much in the same way that a wall is, with the (rather obvious) exception that the player can choose to ignore the barrier and open up some fighting/exploring ground at the cost of taking some damage. When viewed that way, you end up with more potential tactics for ridding a room of monsters (or making a desperate escape) than you would if you considered the alternative to make said pit bordered by impassible railings.

The only problem with that analysis is that walls and impassable railings block monsters too, nukage doesn't. Monsters can walk in that shit all day long without taking damage.

[DuckReconMajor]

Vordakk said:

The only problem with that analysis is that walls and impassable railings block monsters too, nukage doesn't. Monsters can walk in that shit all day long without taking damage.

This. I wish monsters got hurt by damaging floors.

[Phobus]

I don't, as it'd make them much less useful and also stop them having a movement advantage over a player who is stuck in a limited space by nukage on either side.

[ComicMischief]

Phobus said:

I don't, as it'd make them much less useful and also stop them having a movement advantage over a player who is stuck in a limited space by nukage on either side.

This. Lot of people in this thread don't seem to like a challenge. :P

Seriously, monsters being damaged by nukage would make the game a breeze. Soldiers would die in seconds, imps soon after -- pinky demons have about the same health as a player without armour, they'll come out a reasonable pool weak enough to fell with a couple of pistol shots. No. I don't think I'd like this.