Doom 2 In Name Only - Now (supsiciously) on a load of gaming articles

[mouldy]

Joseph Lord said:

Here is the map!
The gameplay is finished but i think it still need some detail here and there. And i prefer upload this now, because if the map have some heavy problem i can fix it at time
Enjoy

http://www.speedyshare.com/Frsye/map27.1.wad

Just had a go at this, really nice looking map, some confusing moments with obscure switches and layout but I have no problem with how it looks.

But I have to ask - do you actually playtest your maps? Because they always seem to be ridiculously unfair when they first appear. This one I got as far as the area with the first spider mastermind and just gave up. Up til that point I was finding it pretty frustrating - in particular the revenant swarm in the dark room where they can teleport around. That left me with very little ammo, and then round the corner I see a whole crowd of cacos and pain elementals. Laboriously chainsawing through enough of them to squeeze into the next room and I am met with a spider mastermind surrounded by blocking trees, with 2 archviles guarding him on pillars, and all this while the whole place is filling up with lost souls. After several attempts I gave up and went into god mode to check out the rest of the map, seems like it is way too harsh and not enough ammo to deal with everything. I don't mind a challenge but I just don't think anyone will enjoy this map even with save spamming.

I think a good way to judge difficulty is whether you as the author can just about get through it without secrets, saving or dying, or at least get close to the end. If you can do this as it is then I'd be very interested to see a demo ;)

[Antroid]

mouldy said:

I think a good way to judge difficulty is whether you as the author can just about get through it without secrets, saving or dying, or at least get close to the end. If you can do this as it is then I'd be very interested to see a demo ;)

I to this day cannot get very far in map29 without dying. But people have confirmed that the difficulty in that is okay.

Also, if you encounter a link to map24 from me before 10th hits, be prepared to play something that's also ridiculously unfair because I probably won't bother too much with balance for the initial release :D

[Tristan]

I'm still yet to beat MAP22 on UV :(

[mouldy]

heh, I'll admit I'm mainly worried about people rage-quitting the wad before getting to my maps. Map 29 killed me a number of times, but I always had options beyond learning a precise sequence of actions or just hoping a stray rocket wont hit me. I like a tough map but there's exciting tough and there's annoying tough and there's impossible tough...

I'm interested to hear what other people make of map27 though. In fact it seems like a good time to start playing through all these maps now.

[Tristan]

I guess though the OP states all maps are listed, I suppose it should say 31/32, since I'm still waiting on a MAP06.

Mouldy, I would say you shouldn't worry because you have MAP20, but I expect there's a lot of people who will die of old age before finishing MAP19 :P Also, if you're playing through the maps, could you tell me what you think of MAP07? Would be helpful to see If I should bother re-mapping it.

EDIT below: I'll be in charge of testing HNTR :)

[Jayextee]

When all the maps are submitted for the deadline in 2 days' time, test like hell. Both continuous testing (playing straight-through, keeping all your shit from one level to the next) and pistol start testing.

[mouldy]

Eris Falling said:

I expect there's a lot of people who will die of old age before finishing MAP19 :P Also, if you're playing through the maps, could you tell me what you think of MAP07? Would be helpful to see If I should bother re-mapping it.

I remember having a very hard time with map 19...

Just had a go at map 07, its a quirky kind of map - I like the music, actraiser isnt it? One thing I would say is that (of course) it is rather symmetrical. I don't think there is a need to mess with the map itself too much beyond maybe tarting it up a bit here and there, but the gameplay gets a bit repetitive and seems a bit shooting gallery in places. Especially the mancs who are just walls of meat, and the arachnotrons dont really get a chance to shine either. I would be tempted to play around with making the 3 identical areas have very different fights in them. The chaingunners force you to take cover behind the switch and keep going up and down on the lift which gets a bit tiresome, maybe you could have it so that the fight only starts once you get off the lift, and each area utilises different kind of enemies. If you like I can have a little fiddle around with the gameplay, just to see if it gives you any ideas.

[Tristan]

Thanks
The music is AHGEEZ.MID from a deathmatch level in DN3D.
What I had in mind was getting rid of the keys, putting a teleporter in the place of the lifts leading to different places, with very different fights, each one culminating in a group of Mancubi. Once all Mancubi are killed the teleporter in the central room - originally a death escape - will lower and will take you to another arena with the Arachnotrons and of course, the exit. This would also help the fact that the tag 667 sector raises to different points in ZDoom against vanilla.

In my mind it's a decent idea, but it doesn't seem very simple.

[mouldy]

Sounds like its worth a shot. If all the areas will look similar then that sounds dead simple enough to me.

[Tristan]

Just wanna make sure I'm going the right way about this

New start area, without unnecessary detours to collect starting ammo. There's some pretty zany lights going on in here. I'm looking back at the start position from the end of the corridor.


I think this is still recognisable. The blue dents in the floor light up as you complete areas, supposedly powering up the teleporter. I haven't allowed for the fact that tag 666 lowers to the lowest adjacent floor. Bugger.

[ella guro]

mouldy said:

Nice to see you dropping back in. Its the concept that drew me to the project, having some kind of artistic framework to work within is a good inspiration for some creativity. Some really cool maps in here too.

agreed. what kills me with a lot of maps is not some inherent lack of creativity or imagination on the designer's part (though that does happen too), but just a lack of a consistent concept. so i thought there was a better chance everyone could pull out something interesting if the title was already decided. of course people might still have the original progression so much in mind and end up essentially remaking the old levels without meaning to, but i guess that's kind of unavoidable.

i've been throwing around the idea of making a bonus level for this, just to show my appreciation. i'll keep you guys updated if i do.

[Antroid]

Alright, doom is messing with me. You guys know the linedef action "W1 floor start moving up and down"? It's supposed to move between the lowest and highest floors, right? Well, in my case once it starts rising it just keeps rising forever, through the ceiling and all. And it DOES have adjacent sectors with a floor higher than it's initial level. What the hell?

Edit: wait no, apparently at some point it stops and goes down, but it's waaaay up high through the ceiling. And it's not adjacent to any sector with that floor level. I feel like between this and the constant failings of action 19 back in map29, doom just can't freaking understand it's own floor heights.

[glenzinho]

Eris Falling said:

I was thinking of remastering MAP07, since my mapping has developed a lot since August (I hope :P) but I'm not sure it's really necessary. I just feel it could be a lot better, but I don't want to make it too complex.

I've been tinkering with Map 13 on and off for a while now and I just may have an update ready by tomorrow *fingers crossed*
I may try to find another music track if I can find something suitable.

ella guro said:

i've been throwing around the idea of making a bonus level for this, just to show my appreciation. i'll keep you guys updated if i do.

Do it!

[Tristan]

Antroid, check your tags? EDIT: And check for joined sectors.

Ella, I think I might have to abandon the MAP33, MAP34, MAP35 plan, and have them standalone as I intended before. I guess your level can fill one of these

[Antroid]

Eris Falling said:

Antroid, check your tags?

Tags are alright... >:0

Eris Falling said:

Ella, I think I might have to abandon the MAP33, MAP34, MAP35 plan, and have them standalone as I intended before. I guess your level can fill one of these

Wait, so I'm sitting here instead of sleeping before work and trying to finish map24 and it might not even make it into the extra slots?

[Tristan]

D2INO.wad
extra1.wad
extra2.wad
extra3.wad
etc

It's not like the map won't go un-noticed. There would be too many extra maps - unless we completely rejected MAP06 - it's nothing to do with me that Vanilla can't have more than 35 maps. Unless we simply made them ZDoom only or something. Alternatively, ella's level could be the separate wad.

[ella guro]

Antroid said:

Tags are alright... >:0


Wait, so I'm sitting here instead of sleeping before work and trying to finish map24 and it might not even make it into the extra slots?

i might not even end up doing anything anyway, so you guys shouldn't worry about holding a spot for me.

[Antroid]

Actually I don't care about that right now as much as I care about the motherfu~~ linedef action 53 completely refusing to work correctly, even though it worked perfectly in map29.

[mouldy]

Antroid said:

Alright, doom is messing with me. You guys know the linedef action "W1 floor start moving up and down"? It's supposed to move between the lowest and highest floors, right? Well, in my case once it starts rising it just keeps rising forever, through the ceiling and all. And it DOES have adjacent sectors with a floor higher than it's initial level. What the hell?

Edit: wait no, apparently at some point it stops and goes down, but it's waaaay up high through the ceiling. And it's not adjacent to any sector with that floor level. I feel like between this and the constant failings of action 19 back in map29, doom just can't freaking understand it's own floor heights.

I'm using that tag in map 20 and it seems to work like it should. I can only imagine your sector is joined to another one somewhere or there's another sector somewhere with the same tag that is confusing it.

[Memfis]

Antroid said:

Alright, doom is messing with me. You guys know the linedef action "W1 floor start moving up and down"? It's supposed to move between the lowest and highest floors, right? Well, in my case once it starts rising it just keeps rising forever, through the ceiling and all. And it DOES have adjacent sectors with a floor higher than it's initial level. What the hell?

Edit: wait no, apparently at some point it stops and goes down, but it's waaaay up high through the ceiling. And it's not adjacent to any sector with that floor level. I feel like between this and the constant failings of action 19 back in map29, doom just can't freaking understand it's own floor heights.

Do you have any sectors with floor height below -512? (vanilla sometimes has problems with with moving them correctly) If so, try rising the whole level to get rid of such sectors (select all sectors and type something like ++1000 for floor and ceiling heights).

[Antroid]

Memfis said:

Do you have any sectors with floor height below -512? (vanilla sometimes has problems with with moving them correctly) If so, try rising the whole level to get rid of such sectors (select all sectors and type something like ++1000 for floor and ceiling heights).

Oh my god this is such bullshit! I did this and it helped! Why the hell does Doom have so many freaking inane bugs? I'm sure that's also what fucked up the insta-rising floors in map29! I wonder if I can fix that too.

Also I didn't know of that way to raise/lower all selected sectors, so thanks for that too!

Edit: actually, I went the opposite way and replaced all insta-monsters in maps 04 and 29 with fast-rising ones. Even though initially I placed them in such a way that the player will never see them pop out, I didn't account for coop and a possible second (or more) player who'd witness insta-monsters which is bad. At some point I'll reupload both maps, maybe I'll fix them up more so no point reuploading now.

[Tristan]

Anyone else just love faking custom textures, like SUPPORT 3 with 1 or 3 rivets, or METAL6/7 with lights at both ends? :P

[Antroid]

I certainly do! Although maybe not in the maps for this project -- yet.

[glenzinho]

Updated tinkered Map 13:

Download link

Please report any bugs and issues, or if you like the older version better, etc.

[The_MártonJános]

Eris Falling said:

(...)SUPPORT 3 with 1 (...) rivets(...)

I usually gain that through a well-aligned SKINMET* (/SKINSCAB/SKINCUT/SKINSYMB).

[glenzinho]

@Joseph Lord's Map 24: This is the first time I've played this since you first released it, and I enjoyed this one much more. I think you need to look at the ammo situation, or rather lack of, in the middle and towards the end, because there are only so many HKs and Barons that I can chainsaw ;) The map ticks off the Chasm part of the deal quite nicely. It's very eclectic visually, but I found its weirdness it very suitable for a hell map. Some very nasty traps which I thought were well done, but there was one or maybe two I found impossible, such as the small room with the endless teleporting sarges. Needs more cell ammo, or protection of some sort or even invuln sphere hijinks. Ammo is the major issue though. And the invisible bridge room. There's something going on in there bug wise. With a little gameplay TLC this could be quite the epic map.

[Tristan]

I just realised MAP07, even in it's original form is perfect for 3-player co-op :P

[Tristan]

I've got to seriously hurry up. I've only got this far.

Water rather than nukage this time. I don't think I had bothered downloading the extra textures when I originally made this map


Yeah a drill. I also managed to make a SUPPORT3 with no rivets at all in this room, cheers 4x4 grid!


All these rooms have deathmatch starts in them too. And yes they're all exactly the same barring texturing.

The beta should be released in the later afternoon. Don't expect anything earlier than 3PM BST. I think I'm quite busy in addition to finishing my own map and compiling stuff.

[schwerpunk]

Oh jeez, I'm pretty behind on MAP16. I'm going to whip up a quick ending so people can at least play what I've got so far, but I've kind of hit a wall. Doesn't help that personal life has reared its ugly head in my direction.

EDIT: And here it is. Apologies for the rough work. The ending is stumping me. Lots of low detail areas with temporary flood texturing, but at least it's finishable.

[Babel]

Thanks guy for all ur critics and opinions!. I took as much as could in this 2 days and try to improve as much as possible.
I think it needs a little more work but now the map is playable to the beta
Enojoy

http://www.speedyshare.com/dCUm4/map27.1.wad