Doom 2 In Name Only - Now (supsiciously) on a load of gaming articles

[Xaser]

While I'm thinking about it, lemme re-upload xa-wolfy just to be sure everything's up to date:

http://ionline.vectec.net/doom/xa-wolfy-v2.zip

I think there were a couple of fixes here and there and I went ahead and included the DEH as an embedded DEHACKED lump to make folks' lives easier.

[Antroid]

...And, jumping on the last second bandwagon, MAP24 alpha version.
NOTE: this is utterly, tragically untested!
I mean, it works, linedef actions, custom music (special thanks to Memfis for providing it), but gameplay-wise? Zero testing has been done so far. I just scattered monsters and supplies for a preliminary placement which I will then work on extensively. A room or three may even be completely unpopulated yet. Maybe some portion of it will remain as it is, depends on how it actually plays. Too bad I don't have time to playtest because if I tried that I'd be late for the beta and lose whatever chance I have of jamming this map24 into the actual project.

In any case, the map needs massive amounts of "fixing up", but I can do it all 100% legit post-beta. This includes not only thing placement but probably touching up some areas, adding stuff like traps or ambushes or moving elements, or secrets (although there's some cool ones already). The later half was slightly rushed (I wonder if it's really easy to tell which parts I did during the last two nights, and which I did way slower and with more care). I'm basically throwing this version out there to have a chance at the real map24 slot.

About the map's concept: it was inspired by some places I don't even remember where I saw or what they are. And by a couple dungeons from the Might and Magic series, especially one from 9, even though 9 wasn't too good of a game. The layout even seems more like those dungeons and less like a traditional Doom level in a way. Style-wise I was going for "can be mistaken for vaguely egyptian". The whole map is set around a river of mysterious green liquid (totally not radioactive sludge, it's meant to be more like "the river of souls", or styx, or whatever) that's been considered holy by some ancient people and perhaps was part of their mythology or something. The river flows down a massive chasm - the namesake. There's temple- and tomb-like structures built all around it, some sort of shitty shantytown-like settlement built by various pilgrims or hermits who really, REALLY wanted to live around this holy river. Deeper down, when the river starts going nearly fully underground, the architecture's the tiniest bit different, which is supposed to be because that's an older temple-like structure, built with slightly more fanciness and care (though barely reflected in the actual level - I may touch this up more).

[elic]

A beta version of Map06 will be released by me within an hour.

It'll still be 7/9 in some parts of the world I guess...

[cannonball]

few extra tweaks to map12
http://speedy.sh/fE4Ak/cbfactorybeta.wad
removed placeholder Jimmy track too.

Few visual tweaks and co-op settings for map21
http://speedy.sh/euF5a/cbnirvanabeta.wad

[elic]

Okay, here's Map06: http://www.mediafire.com/?8opmdiyid1f2xc7

The problems with my map are sort of the opposite of the ones with Antroid's. The gameplay is mostly complete, but the visual elements are unfinished. I promise I'll fix them up ASAP.

[an_mutt]

As people play through my maps in the beta release (maps 05, 08 and 17), they'll notice a few issues in Chocolate Doom/Doom95.exe/whatever. Chances are I'll prooobably know about them, as I did a bit of testing last night because hey, it's the summer and I can't sleep when it's too hot. Don't worry about assembling these into the beta .wad if you've already put the previous versions in, Eris, but here should be some final fixes:

Map 05
Changes: extended one particular secret and removed the Plasma Rifle secret. Final room was unreliable in lowering the floors to let you access the exit room. Visplane overflow errors are now possible though if you noclip outside of the map, head south and look back where you came. I'll fix this if it becomes too much of an issue, of course.

Map17
Changes: Removed an actual All Ghost bug that must have been there since the first upload. I shot one round down the corridor that leads to the yellow key room and the entire map shit itself, so I've removed a fair amount of detail from that area. Everything else is unchanged.

I've also fixed up a few issues with Map 08, but I still haven't finished balancing and difficulty settings, so you'll have to make do with what's there already. :V

[Tristan]

Fantastic, that's the biggest OP I've had to make yet :P

Interesting map PC, I take it you'll be uploading the visual fixes today?

I really like Antroid's MAP24 now. That means both submissions are really good, I don't know what to about that now :P

Later today I will be changing the maplist - removing download links and re-ordering the others into hopefully final positions.

[Antroid]

Eris Falling said:

I really like Antroid's MAP24 now. That means both submissions are really good, I don't know what to about that now :P

Well you know what I think you should do. ;)

[cannonball]

All single maps have been deleted from my pr-boom folder (except my maps for obvious reasons). Definitely excited :D

[glenzinho]

Yep, I'm excited too. Just played the first 4 maps, which I haven't done since their initial versions, and I was pleasantly surprised at the improvements made in them. I had to resist loading up more until Eris puts the beta out. Hurry up young man!

[joe-ilya]

Fixed difficulties.

http://www.mediafire.com/?r7k4ddymiea7am2

[cannonball]

glenzinho said:

Yep, I'm excited too. Just played the first 4 maps, which I haven't done since their initial versions, and I was pleasantly surprised at the improvements made in them. I had to resist loading up more until Eris puts the beta out. Hurry up young man!

It's only just past 12:00 (BST) :/

[Antroid]

Yeah, don't rush him, he has to spend some time deciding to pick my map24 over JL's for the final map list :P

[Tristan]

When the download links disappear, it means compilation has started. The beta maplist will also be shown. In addition to MAP24 decisions, I also have to finish MAP07 (I'm only just starting on the replacements for the walkways :/ )

By the way, apart from the centre room, which is just a spiced up version of the V3 series, this is almost a completely different map. Didn't think a V4 would ever surface :P

I finished up on the story music last night. It's missing elements from the original song, but I think it's turned out pretty nice. Anyone who bothered to play Ragnoversary (Ragnor13.wad), or listens to Sabaton should know it.

[Antroid]

Thinking about it with a clear head (and after actually sleeping), I think that I'm gonna extend the post-key underground area of map24. The last couple of rooms were really, REALLY rushed just to get it over with, and I kinda want to have a more elaborate underground chasm place. Although I'm not sure if it'll drag on too long if I do that.

[Tristan]

1 down, 3 to go :( This is taking slightly too long for my liking. I wish I'd started on this earlier, but the thought hadn't occurred to me

A lone Mancubus in the distance. I sense a..


..trap..


EDIT: @Mouldy: when you said the areas should look similar, I don't suppose this is what you meant, is it?

[Tristan]

Double post

I'm going to cause a delay on the project if I try to finish this now, I'll leave it as V3 for the Beta, and I'll sort out V4 afterwards. It's not ideal, but I don't want this waiting all on 1 map.

[mouldy]

wow, loads of new maps to try out..

@schwerpunk - map16
This is looking cool, though I whizzed through it in god mode so cant say how well it plays, has some pretty busy moments though, i was running out of ammo a bit - think I should have used chainsaw more on those demons. Hope you get time to tart up the final outdoor section, the underground areas are really nice.

@Joseph Lord - map27
This is big improvement in gameplay, I actually survived the whole map. However I used about a million saves and deaths, and there were some bits that took a lot of determination to get through. I would tone down some parts that I think will get a lot of people crying bullshit.

Bits that I found frustrating:

damaging tunnel with spectres and archviles that appear - I know you get a rad suit but it doesn't give enough time to deal with everything, I think that bit would be hard enough even without the damaging floor, and also you have to backtrack through it unless you find a secret switch (which I only just did in doom builder) which is pretty harsh.

the teleport maze - ok the path is subtly indicated on the floor but its pretty much a guaranteed death the first time you find it. Dunno what to suggest about that, I hate teleport mazes anyway so I guess I'm just biased.
Also, after teleporting I made the mistake of jumping down to open the blue door, not realising (how could I?) that it would be blocked. People will not like you for that, especially if like me they had left a load of enemies in that area to save ammo. Checking in doom builder I see those yellow bars drop after entering the yellow key room, though you would have no reason to think they might, which makes it kind of weird having to get the blue key earlier.. its just confusing and obscure, plus as far as I can tell you dont even use the yellow key?? There were some other yellow bars somewhere but they open without it, which is also a bit weird. And you don't even need the yellow key to exit.. (why is there an invulnerability in front of the exit by the way?)

the maze of midtextures - everyone hates enemies shooting you through midtextures, and archviles doing it takes things up to new levels of wtf. That cyberdemon at the end was pretty frustrating too, even after having to rush in there to get enough ammo to deal with him its a bit of a chore shooting him through the narrow corridor and running in there to fight him involves another archvile behind a midtexture.

Other parts I found difficult were mainly about not having enough ammo (shells and bullets), probably because of the massive amount of pain elementals filling everywhere with lost souls. Other than all that though I really like it. It looks great and has really intricate layout. There are a lot of textures that need alignment (i noticed a load in your map 24 as well) and one slime trail that jumped out.

[Babel]

mouldy said:

wow, loads of new maps to try out..


@Joseph Lord - map27
This is big improvement in gameplay, I actually survived the whole map. However I used about a million saves and deaths, and there were some bits that took a lot of determination to get through. I would tone down some parts that I think will get a lot of people crying bullshit.


the maze of midtextures - everyone hates enemies shooting you through midtextures, and archviles doing it takes things up to new levels of wtf. That cyberdemon at the end was pretty frustrating too, even after having to rush in there to get enough ammo to deal with him its a bit of a chore shooting him through the narrow corridor and running in there to fight him involves another archvile behind a midtexture.

Other parts I found difficult were mainly about not having enough ammo (shells and bullets), probably because of the massive amount of pain elementals filling everywhere with lost souls. Other than all that though I really like it. It looks great and has really intricate layout. There are a lot of textures that need alignment (i noticed a load in your map 24 as well) and one slime trail that jumped out.

Well in my personal opinion if the map is hard is more fun for that reason i love the traps but maybe in this map i exceed.
"damaging tunnel with spectres and archviles that appear - I know you get a rad suit but it doesn't give enough time to deal with everything, I think that bit would be hard enough even without the damaging floor, and also you have to backtrack through it unless you find a secret switch (which I only just did in doom builder) which is pretty harsh."
About that, i really exceed it... The idea of that was "Hey u have time to go on so hurry" Maybe i have to put signals and 1 more rad suit.
I can tell you dont even use the yellow key??
I really thought it before to upload the second version but with the little time i had yesterday i couldnt think anything. I never thought that yellow key was obscure and confusing
The midtextures arent hard, u have to go forward only and after the archviles get teleported.
concluying this is better if i take my time to perfect the map instead to make fast adjunstements.

Now im gonna test the map06 and map24 of antroid to see what the hell he has. And i want to play the new version of map07 it looks very good

[Antroid]

Joseph Lord said:

Now im gonna test ... map24 of antroid

Good luck with that :P don't forget that it's probably too early for testing there because even I haven't tried to play it through with monsters yet. Although if you do and find that it's perfectly balanced as it is, that'd be cool. %)

[Tristan]

Joseph Lord said:

new version of map07 it looks very good

Thanks, but it won't appear in the Beta. I should think about downloading this lot soon. Finalised map slots are decided.

[mouldy]

Joseph Lord said:

Well in my personal opinion if the map is hard is more fun for that reason i love the traps but maybe in this map i exceed.

yeah, just giving my opinion. I think you should get a few more people playing it to get a more balanced response, and feel free to ignore it all if you enjoy playing the map as it is - I only ever make maps that I enjoy playing myself. I don't mind making a few concessions though if it gets more people playing them, but beyond a certain point you have to make the map you want to make.

[Antroid]

Eris Falling said:

Finalised map slots are decided.

TELL ME

[Tristan]

Antroid said:

TELL ME

BE PATIENT

Also, @an_mutt MAP17 fix links to a MAP08 fix.

[Antroid]

Eris Falling said:

BE PATIENT

You better spill the beans by the time I get home from work! Lucky for you I'm going on foot today, so it's 2 hours...

[AtTheGates]

Processingcontrol said:

Okay, here's Map06: http://www.mediafire.com/?8opmdiyid1f2xc7

The problems with my map are sort of the opposite of the ones with Antroid's. The gameplay is mostly complete, but the visual elements are unfinished. I promise I'll fix them up ASAP.

after finding the red key, i couldn't find the yellow key, let alone where to use the red one, and gave up after a lot of searching. maybe something was bugged? i guess the crushers should be "open" so that i can run past them or something?

[Babel]

Eris Falling said:

BE PATIENT

Is hard in this situation, is like... one map lives and the other die...

[Tristan]

AtTheGates said:

after finding the red key, i couldn't find the yellow key, let alone where to use the red one, and gave up after a lot of searching. maybe something was bugged? i guess the crushers should be "open" so that i can run past them or something?

Oh dear, I hope this can be resolved quick.

Joseph Lord said:

Is hard in this situation, is like... one map lives and the other die...

Oh it's not that bad :P The other map is in MAP35. Both were great submissions.

[cannonball]

Yeah map06 felt rather broken, some crushers were acting very strangely, another issue is that I encountered mancubi, err weren't we supposed to introduce them on map07?

[Tristan]

Oh bloody hell! I can't release anything with this >_<

Fortunately, I've unveiled the final maplist, so Antroid won't be cutting my head off any time soon.