Doom 2 In Name Only - Now (supsiciously) on a load of gaming articles

[mouldy]

Processingcontrol said:

Here's the updated version of Map06, with difficulty settings, decent-looking visuals, bug fixes, etc.

Seems to be a problem with the crushing platforms, I found they had been raised up so I couldn't use them. Linedef 770 raises them to lowest ceiling for some reason, I must have triggered that.

Other than that, great improvement! Difficulty is a lot smoother now and looks good.

[Memfis]

idclev35 doesn't exist but -warp 35 does

[CorSair]

All right folks, some demos for your pleasure. Style FDA, going like pox chicken, played in GLBoom, had vertical mouselook on.
Currently, this folder contains demos between MAP01 to MAP08. Will provide another folder with random amount of demos some another time.

And have some of my quick personal opinions of the maps.

MAP01:
I don't have any complaints. I like the chaingun start, bit more action-like starter.

MAP02: Nope, no complaints on that either. Feels solid to play. I liked that soulsphere gimmick.

MAP03:
Surprisingly tough, in my opinion, quite good. Almost died for those crushers. >.<

MAP04:
Not liking that damaging sector maze. Not at all. Overall, no complaints, liked the level architecture.

MAP05:
First death. Lots of damaging floors, but redeeming factor is those sidesteps on the tunnels. Not bad at all.

MAP06:
Didn't finish this one. Lots of dying and I was in hurry. Can't say anything good on gameplay, ramps quite lot. But I like the architecture and visual design overall and the central area is really neat.
In second attempt, I tried to finish this, but I have no idea what's with those crushers.

MAP07:
Looks decent. But high dosage of chaingunners ruin my mood. Also; "WOOPS WRONG DOOR" with nothing but pistol at the start. Doh.

MAP08:
Didn't finish this one. Quite tough map, but I like it. Looks visually decent.

[Antroid]

CorSair said:

MAP04:
Not liking that damaging sector maze. Not at all. Overall, no complaints, liked the level architecture.

Well tough! I think there's even health bonuses in there to indicate the way, plus it's short AND can be almost entirely skipped. :P

[Tristan]

I can get through the maze flawlessly, plus there is a rad suit, even 2 on skill 1/2

Not a bug, but a lost soul and a revenant did some team work. The skull blocked me and the revenant fired the fatal shot.

Of course it wouldn't been so bad normally, but...


EDIT: Regarding TNS, Evo replied to my PM and said they'd look into it after #100.

On the same topic, Eris Falling never replied to the PM I sent him. Rude shit.

[glenzinho]

Processingcontrol said:

Here's the updated version of Map06, with difficulty settings, decent-looking visuals, bug fixes, etc.

mouldy said:

Seems to be a problem with the crushing platforms, I found they had been raised up so I couldn't use them. Linedef 770 raises them to lowest ceiling for some reason, I must have triggered that.

Is this why I can't get past the red switch/blue switch area?

Antroid said:

I think there's even health bonuses in there to indicate the way

There is? On all difficulties?

[Antroid]

glenzinho said:

There is? On all difficulties?

No, not on all. Maybe only on easy, maybe on normal too - I can't remember. Nevertheless, it's pretty easy.
There's an acid maze (for a secret) near the end of map24 that is much worse though and I'm gonna tweak that one severely.

[mouldy]

Eris Falling said:

Not a bug, but a lost soul and a revenant did some team work. The skull blocked me and the revenant fired the fatal shot.

Of course it wouldn't been so bad normally, but...

Ouch, is that map 28? I think I will block monsters from those bits

[Jayextee]

The Pit is kicking my ass. Still wandering around wondering where the bloody hell to go, heheheheh.

[cannonball]

Continuing on in a block of 3 again
Map04
Pretty straightforward but unusually detailed map, I liked the idea from the start and this is executed well. The lava section isn't too annoying and the optional red key for the radsuit is a nice touch I feel. I did get stuck in there due to a doom physics fail but that's no real issue on the mappers part.
Map05
This map can feel a little cramped at times, but the combat and ammo placement is solid. You have added a few new areas since I first played this which meant I was down 2 secrets but found them alright which made me happy :)
Map06
This was certainly interesting. I like how the map loops around itself and joins up. The crushers in the SOuth-west section of the map I think have the possibility to break as a few others have said.
The big crushing yellow room might be quite polarising haha.

[Antroid]

cannonball said:

...Map04...
...unusually detailed...

Please elaborate? I have no idea what you're talking about :X

[cannonball]

Antroid said:

Please elaborate? I have no idea what you're talking about :X

Tech and hell fusion, I like it :D

[Antroid]

It's not really hell though, it's just lava and hot rocks, c'mon (: Stuff like that happens all the time after earthquakes and/or reactor explosions!

[cannonball]

Antroid said:

It's not really hell though, it's just lava and hot rocks, c'mon (: Stuff like that happens all the time after earthquakes and/or reactor explosions!

After playing Hadephobia, I'm just used to explosions of pink spaghetti haha.
Wait why are we arguing :O
Will do map8-10 later this afternoon. Note I'm skipping map07 until Eris updates the map which from his own description will be a lot different.

[Tristan]

Now determined to complete a UV pacifist of MAP22 :P

[mouldy]

Map 08 - no visual glitches I came across. I will say this map has the first truly "fuck you" moment in the wad for me with that yellow key room. Took me a lot of deaths to survive that. I see powerups in the room but there was no way I was going to try getting any with all those revs and chaingunners and hellknights in there. Seemed like the best tactic (other than laborious warping from side to side and getting a shot in each time) was to wait for a gap and run out the exit (if you know it is there). Not sure if I'm making it harsher than it was intended by missing something though... Still, got there in the end.

Map 09 - this map is a bit different on continuous play, since many of the areas become entirely optional unless you are shopping for ammo. Its also makes you realise how bloody massive it is when you are just after the keys, it definitely keeps you fit with all the running involved. Ironically for such a large map the enemies seem to collect around certain bits, like those monster blocking lines - I can see the point of them but it does seem to defeat the object of having such a large space when the enemies can't move freely through it and a lot of the fighting involves shooting them through the cave entrances while they mill around outside. The only fighting that seems to utilise the wide open space is with pain elementals who fill it up with lost souls. Not sure what to suggest about that though.

The room with the star on the floor, I noticed someone else pointed this out: the switch to let you out disappears into the floor for some reason. I reckon this room could maybe use some tinkering - for example if you had to drop into the room and press some switches to make a staircase to escape, or even had a thin ledge around the edge you had to walk on to get out, that would give people the choice of staying to fight or trying a difficult escape, without the need for a door or wall to block the exit. Thats just an idea and there's probably a better one. When you go out the room they teleport somewhere else, you could maybe have them teleport right in front of you instead to discourage cowardice :)

Dunno, see what other people think. I reckon partly why this map seems so big and empty is because it comes right after one that is small and cramped. Maybe its not a bad thing.

[Jayextee]

mouldy said:

Dunno, see what other people think. I reckon partly why this map seems so big and empty is because it comes right after one that is small and cramped. Maybe its not a bad thing.

I kinda like it. I've saved part-way through, still exploring the damn thing.

[Babel]

Eris Falling said:

idclev 35 doesn't exist apparently.

:(, my honor is dying

[mouldy]

Jayextee said:

I kinda like it. I've saved part-way through, still exploring the damn thing.

Yeah its definitely a good one for exploring. Playing from pistol start is better I found as it forces you to really dig around for stuff.

Just played Map 10 - I wondered why I blundered into the exit so soon, someone left the locked doors open. Apart from that its a great map, really nice detailing and I love the way the enemies filter through the whole map to harass you. On pistol start I seem to remember it becomes a real running battle to get ammo.

[cannonball]

Map08
Oh man this is cramped. I got the BFG and then forgot I had it :P
This map isn't too hard actually as I took quite a few beatings including super accurate revenant rockets and the pinky who cock-blocked me into an AV blast.
Yellow key area I feel needs some fine tuning, I mean I could only do it without releasing the hordes into the players area around the yellow key. Plus the supercharges are horribly placed, putting them in alcoves like that means you pretty much cannot use them during the battle.
Missed 40 kills (assume they are in the 3 secrets I did not find)

[Jayextee]

MAP08 yellow key area? I managed to get by in the end by BFG'ing the Hell Knights and then hiding in their little compartment and sniping at the Revenants/Chaingunners from there, through the MIDSPACE texture.

[CorSair]

mouldy said:

Just played Map 10 - I wondered why I blundered into the exit so soon, someone left the locked doors open.

What?
*opens DB2 and loads latest version of map10*
... Good job me. As I did some optimizing, I forgot to put doors into lowered state.

Fan-fucking-tastic.

.:edit:.
HOTFIX download plz

[Jayextee]

Heheheh, it's not just me that edits like that, then.

I find it's good practice whilst making the map architecture, to leave all movable ceilings/floors (doors, lifts, etc) in the state which is going to reveal the most detail so Visplane Explorer can give a better and more reliable reading. I do, however, make sure they're all closed/lowered/raised/whatever before populating the map with monsters though. ;)

[cannonball]

Jayextee said:

MAP08 yellow key area? I managed to get by in the end by BFG'ing the Hell Knights and then hiding in their little compartment and sniping at the Revenants/Chaingunners from there, through the MIDSPACE texture.

That's what I did, well except the bfg HK part, I used rockets, I pretty sure this is not how to play this section (or maybe I'm totally wrong)

[Jayextee]

Without being a coward like that, it is a little much of a dick-move to be honest. Dodging the Rev fireballs is one thing, the chaingunners make damage unavoidable -- and I found it harder to get infighting going on than I would've thought.

[mouldy]

Just remembered something about map 09 - you can press the exit switch through the bars.

Wish I'd found the bfg in map 08, that would've made yellow key room a bit easier. Except I didn't have any plasma ammo...

[Egregor]

glenzinho said:

Map 11: I hate to be negative, but we're in beta after all so here goes. I played this when it was first released, and I recall something being discussed about the damaging floors and such, but I can't see that anything was rectified. To me this a frustrating switch hunt through damaging floors with a lot of traps that seem unfair due to the available resources.

First, thanks for the brutal, yet honest feedback. My attempt to rectify this first issue was by placing a rad suit tucked in the corner of the beginning of the damaging floor maze. This should allow you to get through it without being damaged by the floor, provided you actually find it. Perhaps the rad suit should be in plain sight on the fortress entrance?

glenzinho said:

I was playing continuously so the ammo I carried over was alright, but I can only imagine how much more frustrating it would be from pistol start. The way you get around to the opposite ledge in the cybie area is great the first time, but when you constantly have to go back and forth figuring out where to go next it becomes convoluted. Perhaps after the first time you access that area, there could be a line action that raises a section to create a shortcut for repeat visits. Architecture and texturing is fantastic, but flow and even remotely fair gameplay are non-existent IMO.

Hmm, I like that returning raised platform idea, but I'm afraid the center of the temple is at it's visplane limit, preventing me from doing much more with that central room. I've painted myself into a corner there, that is unless I hack it apart and start over.

I recognize those game play problems but I am stumped on how I might remedy them.

[Antroid]

Egregor said:

Perhaps the rad suit should be in plain sight on the fortress entrance?

Definitely. I didn't see it either (I played about five seconds of some maps yesterday, mainly ones that have new music, I just wanted to listen to what people included. Oh god, courtyard's music is the least fitting thing for Doom. Map07's music however is awesome, as are some other tracks I don't remember).

[Tristan]

What's all this talk of BFG'ing in MAP08? I was under the impression it was removed.

EDIT: I felt MAP18's music was kinda cool because it was so different from normal Doom stuff. I like the tracks in MAP01, 15, 21 and 31 too.

[mouldy]

Map 11 - this is a bloody gorgeous map, nothing about the visuals can be faulted at all. I have to say I hate that start though (it makes me wonder what people will make of the start of map 20). I'm not a fan of damaging floors at the best of times, but forcing you to jump down without even knowing if there's a rad suit down there is a bit harsh. Once you have died a few times and know the layout its not as bad, but I think if the rad suit was in plain suit it might be a bit kinder. The rest of the map is very intricate and convoluted, and I quite enjoyed it myself, although playing consecutively I had the luxury of being able to finish that cyberdemon off from the beginning. I remember playing from pistol start that cyber was such a pain in the arse when you had to leave it there and always be dodging the rockets. I'm not sure that it adds to the game either because you end up just saving every half a minute in case you catch a stray rocket, so just slows things down really. I'd have it popping up maybe half way through when the player has enough equipment to deal with it. See what other people say though. Once he was out the way I really enjoyed the rest. I didn't even mind too much the long running around to get anywhere, but if you wanted to speed things up then maybe you could have a teleport shortcut somewhere...