Doom 2 In Name Only - Now (supsiciously) on a load of gaming articles

[Jayextee]

Springy said:

Sorry for the confusion.

Not a problem. If I seemed abrupt, it's just because I didn't want there to be any ambiguity here. ;)

[Capellan]

I'm not a fan of death exits. I can tolerate them if there is a story or thematic reason for them, though they still tend to break my sense of immersion (why is it OK to die at this particular moment, but not OK in the room next door, or any other time?). If very well-executed and supported by intermission text, those qualms can be addressed.

I am emphatically opposed to it in cases where almost all of the levels are set-up for continuous play as well as pistol starts, and the only reason it exists is because "the next level's author didn't bother to balance for continuous play". If your project as a whole supports both styles of play, I think you need a darn good in-game reason not to do it too (see first paragraph).

This is pretty explicitly a project that supports continuous play (it wouldn't need the "no BFGs before map11" rule if it wasn't), so IMO, there needs to be a good thematic/story justification for a death exit. Map20 is a good slot for building that sort of justification, though.

[glenzinho]

I side with Capellan's line of thinking on death exits... perhaps Map 20 is the only map where I would find it acceptable because you are straddling earth and hell and have the benefit of the intermission text to please explain. Absolutely not should Map 29 have one of these... it would turn an Icon map even more into a gimmick than it already is.

[Tristan]

I wasn't planning on changing the story text, since my MAP07 kinda fitted with the first one, but an exception can be made of course.
It needs to be done with DeHackEd though does it not? I have no idea how to use that.
The death exit is necessary though. Even I can beat MAP21 from a pistol start on UV, I can only imagine what it would be like with x number of cells in your plasma gun, etc.

[CorSair]

Speaking of MAP30, feels bit too bullshit on pistol start, probably suited for continuous play. But better than original IoS fight, I can give that. :P

Not yet willing to provide demos, because there's just few maps to go.

[Antroid]

So wait, we've all pretty much agreed on map20's death exit, but now we're back to doubting whether map29 needs one or not? I don't really remember what was the last state of map30 in terms of needing a pistol start, I think that was a pre-mouldy thing that we just kept. At this point I'm fine with removing it from map29 - unless of course mouldy feels that it should stay for the benefit of his map's gameplay.

[Tristan]

I can empathise with what CorSair said, but OTOH, imagine going into MAP30 with all weapons. How shit is Pride going to be when you go through the trouble of those suspiciously quick lifts to pick-up the amazing BFG, which you already have. I know that bit is compulsory, but the point still stands. I think the MAP30 pistol start could be another divide in opinions.

[Antroid]

Eris Falling said:

I can empathise with what CorSair said, but OTOH, imagine going into MAP30 with all weapons. How shit is Pride going to be when you go through the trouble of those suspiciously quick lifts to pick-up the amazing BFG, which you already have. I know that bit is compulsory, but the point still stands. I think the MAP30 pistol start could be another divide in opinions.

I personally don't care about map30 being a gimmick, or death exits where they are not 100% thematically justified (I wouldn't be opposed to a map11 death exit after all, the gamey part of sorta dividing the campaign into episodes would justify it for me). So if there's a slightest benefit for some gimmick or idea of map30 from starting with no weapons, I'm keeping the death exit in 29. I guess mouldy can try and be polite and considerate and say that it isn't required per se, but ultimately I suppose it's my decision and unless the powers above me (aka Eris) decide to intervene, I think a death exit that supports the final map's concept should stay. If it's the concept that someone dislikes, well, tough shit?

[mouldy]

Map 30 is pretty tough from pistol start, even if you know the map well. This is one of those situations where I could do with some opinions from other people playing it, i know it too well.

The idea was that each area corresponds to finding one of the weapons, so was built with pistol start in mind, but could be adapted for continuous play - I think the only bit that would need changing is the bfg zone, as the escape is currently triggered by getting the bfg, which would make no sense if you already have it.

I'd have no problem with doing that. But map 20 will definitely need death exit i reckon.

[Antroid]

Okay whatever, someone just tell me the final decision by the time the final deadline draws close and I'll remove or leave the death exit in.

[Tristan]

MAP21: Since I said MAP21 is initially like heaven doesn't it make sense to lose weapons on the way in. "We do not tolerate guns in Heaven, Mr Thölin."

Regarding MAP29 death exit, I see it as an additional interpretation, breaking the level title down. "You died. The End."
Of course, it makes the Living part a bit ironic, but that's already backed up by the living city, so not a problem.

[Antroid]

If only we could sneak a comma into that name, then pretty much any level with a death exit would've qualified. "Living, end". Or even a question mark: "Living? End".

[CorSair]

Demos from MAP29 to MAP35 (Leftovers I did just for the sake of courtesy. I could have gone all the way through but currently just too tired, and didn't want rest of the demos sit any longer.)

Somewhere in next week I'll delete the folders, since I got them neatly sitting in here.

Map 29:
Tough map, but the setting is still good. No complaints.

Map 30:
First playthrough in UV pistol start is just thorns fired on your buttocks. Idea is good, though.

Map 31:
Megaepic secret map, in my opinion. Feels right on every aspect. The bullet boxes tend to hide in green floor.

Map 32:
Quite tough map. Looks okay to me.

Now, the map 34 is okay in gameplay. Texture work... Not so great. Same applies to map 33, but gameplay is weak. Doesn't excite me.
Map 35, some texture work needed in some parts, and gameplay... eh, not really feasible. But didn't play it fully through, seems neat enough for second try when I feel so.

[Babel]

a better version of map27. Now is 100% playable in vainilla with the bugs fixed

http://www.speedyshare.com/7H9Zt/map27.1.wad

EDIT: and this map too
http://www.speedyshare.com/kAmW3/map23.wad
The problem in the blue room was the lift. I forgot put the sector number in the action

[mouldy]

CorSair said:

Map 30:
First playthrough in UV pistol start is just thorns fired on your buttocks. Idea is good, though.

I'm getting that impression from your epic demo, think I will try toning the monster spawners down a touch, its not really giving you much of a chance to figure things out as it is. As the monsters keep coming it gets beyond a certain point where its just impossibly full of monsters, I might rethink the mechanic of closing off the spawning pads manually via secrets and make it an automated thing. Think more health might be in order too. I also didn't realise that plasma rifle can't activate shooting switches which means you are fucked if you run out.

Watching your demos of my other maps you seem to be doing pretty well in those, I was impressed how far you got in map 28. Thats another map that expects you to explore without giving you much of a chance to, so I'm toying with the idea of changing that as well..

[CorSair]

Let me remind you that I am not the greatest Doom player ever. Nor much on other games. :P

[mouldy]

Given how much of map 30 you fought your way through you could probably race through it quite quickly now. Speed is definitely of the essence in that map.

But I definitely think its a bit too harsh to expect someone to figure out a puzzle of a map while random monsters are piling up at such a rate. I'll look into that.

[glenzinho]

mouldy, I would've given feedback by now on map 30, but I haven't got the slightest idea what's going on! Too many switches, timed lifts and that sort of puzzle stuff isn't my glass of scotch. I'm struggling to see the seven deadly sins theme in the rooms and what they correspond to when there are monsters warping in constantly. A little complicated for my tastes.

[mouldy]

That's cool, I think I'm going to have a long hard look at that map and try simplifying it. Its not entirely obvious what you are meant to be doing and why, so I might scrap all the switch shenanigans and just have it so the goal is to circumnavigate the map, with the optional goal of picking up all the weapons on the way for pistol starters.

[joe-ilya]

http://www.mediafire.com/?goakocppv27m5td

The chasm.

Slot:MAP24
Song:e3m8
Difficulties:Yes
Playtested:Yes

[scifista42]

Is this some kind of joke?

[cannonball]

joe-ilya said:

http://www.mediafire.com/?goakocppv27m5td

The chasm.

Slot:MAP24
Song:e3m8
Difficulties:Yes
Playtested:Yes

What did I just play, I mean is this even possible to beat???
Add to that' why does this map exist if there has already been 2 entries for this map slot which were both superior to this by a country mile.

[Tristan]

cannonball said:

why does this map exist if there has already been 2 entries for this map slot which were both superior to this by a country mile.

This.

scifista42 said:

Is this some kind of joke?

This too. I can't tell if this is a troll WAD or not, it doesn't even have anything to do with being a chasm.
Don't do this again, and please do not bother updating it.

[Antroid]

I wonder if he's gonna ask what's wrong with that level.

[Jayextee]

Eris is pretty sexy when the fangs are bared.

[Xaser]

Jayextee said:

Eris is pretty sexy when the fangs are bared.

Eros Falling.

[joe-ilya]

what's wrong with that level?

[Jayextee]

cannonball said:

there has already been 2 entries for this map slot which were both superior to this by a country mile.

[Tristan]

Not only are there 2 better maps, but this one is just appalling.


@JXT + Xaser: Just wait until my ILANCB! thread =P

[joe-ilya]

I don't see anything bad ,I finshed this map.
You just have to try some times.
And the chasm are the center enemies which chase you and you're supposed to escape.