Doom 2 In Name Only - Now (supsiciously) on a load of gaming articles

[Tristan]

scifista42 said:

According to the wiki:

• BLOCKMAP lump must not exceed 65535 bytes in size
  
• Map can contain maximally 32768 segments (and the same for linedefs, sidedefs, subsectors, nodes)
  
• Coordinates of verticles should be numbers between -20000 and +20000

Cool thanks. Well my Coordinates are in no immediate danger (max 5000 atm) and I still have 28000 sidedefs left, the way I'm reading it.
Blockmap on the other hand.

I also used my first-ever dummy sector for a flashing light that indicates a switch.

Spoiler

If you get it early enough, it can help a lot with the arch-vile encounter after the red key

[Vermil]

It is worth noting though, that Vanilla Doom has very strict limits on what can be in view at any given time:

http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Static_limits

These are the limits that give most mappers issues.

[Antroid]

I'll be finishing my long overdue map29 (by finishing i mean tweaking monsters and pickups) after i'm done with my univercity stuff, which has me really busy at the moment.

[Tristan]

Doom Wiki said:

MAXLINEANIMS 64

And there I was thinking I was safe. Well this could be a problem, although I guess it's not too difficult to fix, thanks for bringing this to my attention, Vermil.

EDIT: I have 122 lines scrolling, so Vanilla "will either bomb out or crash." Damn.

@Antroid:Awesome, I'm quite interested to see how both MAP29 and 19 turn out. From what I've seen, both are very promising maps. I look forward to playing both of them.

[scifista42]

Okay here are the promised screenshots. I admit, some of them show areas that were already showed previously, but now they have just more detail. Yes, most of them are taken in OpenGL.










And some examples of lame furniture I'm (over)using all over my map ;)

[Tristan]

scifista42 said:

über screenshots

All that's done has made me sad about my computer's OPENGL intolerance :/

Seriously though, those are really good shots. I'm going to have trouble topping the eeriness of that level.

EDIT: The outdoor ones remind me a bit of Heretic actually.

[cannonball]

Version 3 of Nirvana (probably close to final version)
http://www.mediafire.com/?5e5v66cd8cs88le
- Door in start room opens with a shoot switch (resolves pacifst issue pointed out, add to that it meant I had to put blocklines on the windows to prevent people escaping that way (I was planning to leave them as hell has no rules :P)
- Co-op starts added
- Difficulty settings added, mostly removing a couple of monsters or downgrading them on the lower difficulties.

[Ugalabuga]

cannonball said:

- Door in start room opens with a shoot switch (resolves pacifst issue pointed out, add to that it meant I had to put blocklines on the windows to prevent people escaping that way (I was planning to leave them as hell has no rules :P)

Just played it trough again. It's nice to see the issue being handled in such a subliminal way.
But if I may ask, how did this trick resolve the issue? AFAIK, there are no connections between the trap sector (sector 107) and anything in the first room, but still, shooting there "transfers" the noise to the needed sector. Am I missing something?

[cannonball]

The trap sectors all share the same sector number as the cave section where the blue key area (by that it's all the teleport traps), there is no physical block (a wall or door) between the start room and that cave (there are windows so the sound can escape), hence the fired shot will wake up monsters not flagged as death in most of the map and the trap sectors. Hope that explanation helps

[Antroid]

Eris Falling said:

@Antroid:[/B]Awesome, I'm quite interested to see how both MAP29 and 19 turn out. From what I've seen, both are very promising maps. I look forward to playing both of them.

I could send you the probably imbalanced version of map29 like i did to ella guro via PM. I'd say more than half of it should be okay by now, if i remember what i did last time correctly. The rest should give a good idea of how it'll play, just imagine having enough ammo and health and maybe a couple extra mobs (99% of all the balancing i've been doing after the initial placement has been adding pick-ups because i am apparently stingy as hell with them, or really bad at my own maps). Shoot me a PM if you want it.

[Tristan]

cannonball said:

Version 3 of Nirvana (probably close to final version)
http://www.mediafire.com/?5e5v66cd8cs88le
- Door in start room opens with a shoot switch (resolves pacifst issue pointed out, add to that it meant I had to put blocklines on the windows to prevent people escaping that way (I was planning to leave them as hell has no rules :P)
- Co-op starts added
- Difficulty settings added, mostly removing a couple of monsters or downgrading them on the lower difficulties.

OP updated. Here's to MAP21, first map to undergo full development in the new thread :)

Antroid said:

I could send you the probably imbalanced version of map29 like i did to ella guro via PM.

Yes, please do. I'm quite intrigued by the style of this map, it looks quite..different.

[Shadow Hog]

Curious about the no-Cyberdemons-or-BFGs-until-MAP11-at-least rule, considering both were introduced at MAP08 in the original... although I do like that you're enforcing some semblance of a difficulty curve there.

[Tristan]

Shadow Hog said:

Curious about the no-Cyberdemons-or-BFGs-until-MAP11-at-least rule, considering both were introduced at MAP08 in the original... although I do like that you're enforcing some semblance of a difficulty curve there.

Eregore/Egregor thought that the 'O' of Destruction would be a great introduction for the Cyberdemon, since we are working based on the theory that Doom II never existed. I have to say I agree. The BFG rule only applies because he didn't want the Cyberdemon to be just blasted away in a few shots.

Similarly, I thought that my MAP07 was a good intro for the Mancubi and Arachnotron (and possibly the Pain Elemental - although I don't mind if they are used in MAP06)

I would probably ask the mapper of The Crusher not to place a Mastermind (except for on Multiplayer). This could potentially mean that they are introduced on Industrial Zone, which I suppose would...

Spoiler

give off a deceptively easy introduction if the telefrag method was used.

[CorSair]

Okay, I think I might not get anything to be created in this week or next due to good amount little things to do. I blame incoming Christmas. :P

I still try get basic layout done in this week.

[Antroid]

Eris Falling said:

Yes, please do. I'm quite intrigued by the style of this map, it looks quite..different.

PM sent. It's different from the original but probably not too original if we consider all the user-made levels ever.

[cannonball]

crikey, waiting till map15 for the first spider mastermind seems a little long imo. Maybe a tad earlier and perhaps before mr cybie.
Also maybe something to consider, perhaps we could release an alpha containing the completed maps just before christmas or something like that. So far I believe we have 10 maps done (tweaking pending) and about 5 more which should be completed soon, so might be good to get an idea of how the final product will begin to shape up.

[Devalaous]

Oh cool, Kyka and I discussed a level set like this a long time ago in a Wad Ideas thread.

I have a few questions: Will it also have a sense of progression, ie Episode 1 = Infested Starport, Episode 2 = Ruined city ending with a demon castle and Episode 3 = Descent into Hell thats taking on aspects of Earth?

Will the levels be connected, ie Entryway leading to the underhalls of the Starport, etc?

I'll be interested in the end result regardless, but yeah, if its like the above, its exactly what I envisioned years ago. Do want.

[glenzinho]

Ragnor said:

I have a few questions: Will it also have a sense of progression

The project is about a reinterpretation of the level names of Doom 2, to make the levels appear more like what their name suggest; hence "In Name Only." I'm still hoping that we can come up with a better name ;)

Will the levels be connected, ie Entryway leading to the underhalls of the Starport, etc?

This is something I would like to see, and something I have loosely worked out with _bruce_, whose map will follow my Map 13. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, but I would like to see somewhat of a connection between the exit of one map and the start of another.

If you're interested, I believe there are a few map slots that may be or may become vacant.

[Devalaous]

Hmm, seems the project has been underway for a long time, my suggestion might be too late.

As its pretending Doom 2's existing levels never existed, theres an opportunity to make those levels match those names really well, which is indeed the goal. Doom 2 had a loose progression that the maps rarely followed well, I'd like to see that fully realised. Whether thats also a goal of this project is, I dont know, but I'd love to see it happen. For example, the first episode of Doom 2 is to retake the starport, turn off the fire walls, and allow ships to evacuate Earth.

Going by level names, you start at the facilities Entryway, go down underneath the facility to the "Underhalls", into the Gantlet/Gauntlet (Security checkpoint?), not sure about The Focus, focal point of something? Then theres the Waste Tunnels, obvious one there,) Crusher (Waste Disposal?) and there could be any old design for Dead Simple. I just hope its not yet ANOTHER gimmicky Arachnotron+Mancubus level :p

I take it this is already the case though, I apologise if im rambling.

Any ideas for the name of the project? Maybe rewrite "Doom 2: Hell on Earth" to something similar to imply its an alternate reality sequel to Doom? Or going more fancy, going with alternate reality stuff, something like Doom 2: Alternia. Im not a mapper by any standards (Ive tried many times, I dont have the kind of mind that can handle map editors, but I always have WAY too many ideas for Doom projects. I visualise a lot of this kind of thing.

As for the Spider Mastermind at level 15 thing, maybe go for a "This is where their getting the cybernetics for the spiders" feel, with the Mastermind as the boss? (Or bosses if need be, just...not together or they'll kill each other. Doom on Playstation made that mistake, most anticlimactic final boss ever)

[Tristan]

Ragnor said:

Going by level names, you start at the facilities Entryway, go down underneath the facility to the "Underhalls", into the Gantlet/Gauntlet (Security checkpoint?), not sure about The Focus, focal point of something? Then theres the Waste Tunnels, obvious one there,) Crusher (Waste Disposal?) and there could be any old design for Dead Simple. I just hope its not yet ANOTHER gimmicky Arachnotron+Mancubus level :p

I imagine the Gantlet would be based around a rail track, The Focus is post-earthquake (The Focus being the point of an earthquakes origin under the surface). I think you are probably right about the Crusher, although it's entirely up to whoever makes it.

Dead Simple...well..it uses them, and you do have to kill them. I'm not sure what defines a gimmicky A+M level.

cannonball said:

crikey, waiting till map15 for the first spider mastermind seems a little long imo. Maybe a tad earlier and perhaps before mr cybie.
Also maybe something to consider, perhaps we could release an alpha containing the completed maps just before christmas or something like that. So far I believe we have 10 maps done (tweaking pending) and about 5 more which should be completed soon, so might be good to get an idea of how the final product will begin to shape up.

I think the Mastermind could be manufactured in the factory, or even waiting for you in the bottom of the pit...

MAPs 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 11, 13, 15, 18, 21, and 26 make up the list of completed maps so far (aside from tweaking) as far as I know. 11 maps. I'm considering adding a to do list to the OP for the maps that DO have versions out.
The alpha isn't a bad idea, but do you think we should leave TITLEPIC, INTERPIC(?) and ENDOOM until the final release?

EDIT: I just played MAP29 too. You guys won't be disappointed ;)

[cannonball]

We don't need that stuff just yet, though designing the titlepic soon rather than later would be a good plan. In the end it's up to individual authors digression to whether they put a mastermind in their map or not, I would say it's acceptable from Map06 onwards.
Cool, I would say we should make an alpha sometime mid December as I hope that maps 14, 17, 19, 22 and 29 should also have their first versions out by then. If not no worries but I thought it would add as a little incentive to give people some sort of deadline to which they can get their maps out and into some more serious playtesting.
Sounds like good news about map29, as Rizera said in the last thread it better be epic :P

[Antroid]

Dang, no pressure with map29 at all huh? Well, I was trying to make it a lil' bit epic in places. Eris tells me at least one area is "awe-inspiring", though somehow that area turned out to be broken in my latest version and there was some extra geometry from another part of the level visible instead of Total Blackness. Already fixed it though, and I have no idea what happened there even, it was correct all the times i tested the map myself, but somehow a sector got removed in there. A true mystery. Although i hope that by removing that extra bit of architecture from sight i didn't make it worse :D

[Tristan]

cannonball said:

We don't need that stuff just yet, though designing the titlepic soon rather than later would be a good plan. In the end it's up to individual authors digression to whether they put a mastermind in their map or not, I would say it's acceptable from Map06 onwards.
Cool, I would say we should make an alpha sometime mid December as I hope that maps 14, 17, 19, and 29 should also have their first versions out by then. If not no worries but I thought it would add as a little incentive to give people some sort of deadline to which they can get their maps out and into some more serious playtesting.
Sounds like good news about map29, as Rizera said in the last thread it better be epic :P

Fixed, MAP22 won't be done for quite some time yet.

Right, so I think December 15th is a good date for an Alpha release. I have to compile the completed maps so far into a single wad...

wut

[Antroid]

I will not be done with my diploma by mid-december, and in any case i'd vote against spoiling the penultimate map in an alpha release. Same with map30 on the off-chance it gets made by then.

[cannonball]

Cool ok, that's no problem. We will still have plenty to show from our relatively short period of efforts. (11 maps at least is not bad going since this project got fired up just over 3 months ago :))
@Eris the compilation process shouldn't be too difficult as most maps have been built in the intended map slot. It will just be a case of copy/paste in slade 3 or something along those lines.

[Antroid]

Yeah my map04 is gonna be in it and that's enough for now to stroke my ego :) Also we (and by we i mean whoever's doing it) should not forget to include those recolored waterfall textures in the wad, too. By the way, a monotonous way to merge maps could be opening all of them in DB2 one by one and "saving map into" the alpha wad? Yeah i know that's terrible but it should work also. Just in case.

[Tristan]

cannonball said:

It will just be a case of copy/paste in slade 3 or something along those lines.

Well I need to get SLADE 3 anyway to change the MIDI on MAP22.

the compilation process shouldn't be too difficult as most maps have been built in the intended map slot.

-looks up to the sky-

KONGMING!

Nah, in all seriousness, I'll just send everything in that WAD over to MAP18.

[glenzinho]

It will take a minute to compile in Slade 3, it's no biggie... renaming the map slot will take a second. I'm with Antroid about not releasing an alpha. The maps are here to be played already, if someone so chooses... there's no point muddying the waters with a lot of different versions. Besides, the completed maps are all over the place in terms of map slot; how would you arrange them? Map 07 wouldn't work if you pushed it up the order.

[TMD]

Oh wow, an alpha!?

Thats right when school gets out too D:

[Antroid]

Actually i only meant not including map29 and map30 in an alpha... i'm not against releasing it, though i see no point, as the maps ARE indeed available already.