Doom 2 In Name Only - Now (supsiciously) on a load of gaming articles

[joe-ilya]

[Antroid]

While all these exciting things happen, I'm working on my attempt at map24 every now and then. Got through a bit of a block today, but I'm not sure about being able to finish it thoroughly by the tenth. What does the "final map deadline" actually mean? Is it the final check-up? Or the date after which the project is released no matter what maps are finished? Or the date after which noone should start new maps? I realize there's already a map24 but I still want to finish my take on it.

[mouldy]

Is there any word of whats happening with either of the map28s? I could maybe have a go if those ones have both gone dead

[Antroid]

You should have a go anyway. You could still make a better version of it than what's currently available (haven't seen either so this sentence is not based on any opinion on those) and it would be a good thing for the project. I think map28 needs to be outstanding, the name has so much potential.

Although now you got me remembering my old ideas for it. I wonder if I can speed up my mapping enough to squeeze an attempt at that alongside map24 by the deadline. Probably wishful thinking.

[Tristan]

Antroid said:

What does the "final map deadline" actually mean? Is it the final check-up?

It basically means I want all 32 maps finished no later than July 10th, in the hope of releasing a Beta either on or shortly after that date.

@Mouldy: Go for it :)

MAP06 is pretty good, but I definitely second the idea of using a grid. I took a look in the editor and some of the lines made me cringe.

I've actually been using 8px grid almost exclusively for MAP22, but that's generally better for underground settings. I've gone as low as 1px for some parts, specifically, making 24 unit diagonal lines. I like SUPPORT3 :P It's also quite useful for making linedefs do apparently more than 1 action.

Joe is right though, MajorRawne had a deadline, which he missed. I didn't want to open the slot, but it had to be done really.


EDIT: And on the subject of MAP22, you might just see it become non-vapourware very late this evening or tomorrow.
I know, it's a miracle :P

[Antroid]

I just said "screw it" and also resurrected my old idea of map28. Mouldy, it's on! >:D

[mouldy]

heh *rolls up sleeves*

[joe-ilya]

MAP30: Icon of Sin by mouldy
MAP25: Bloodfalls - by mouldy
MAP20: Gotcha! by mouldy

For now, you may not claim more than three maps.

And now map 28?

If so , remove this rule then.

Can I do that one instead? I only made 2 maps.

[Antroid]

I think the rule should be modified to "no more than four" instead of three, since I've got two more or less completed and released maps for the project and am working on another two (a map28 and a map24) and the rules should definitely be bent to my and mouldy's benefit :D In any case, we're both making attempts at maps that are already present, so that doesn't even really count as "claiming" them.


Also, I just realized, since Eris said that the July 10 deadline is for something like the first beta/demo/whatever with all the maps present, it actually doesn't limit me as much with my attempts at map24 and map28 because we already have other versions of those maps. Hey Eris, will there be a period after the beta/demo release during which I could have an opportunity to butt in with my versions (with a chance of including them of course, if they're better than the originals)?

[mouldy]

Didn't see that rule, I don't mind sticking to it though. Gives me less work to do! But if it looks like the project is missing a map, or has maps that aren't up to scratch, then I can help out. I'll leave it up to you guys.

[scifista42]

joe-ilya said:

The download :D : http://www.mediafire.com/download/r7k4ddymiea7am2/the-crusher.wad

Joe-ilya, congratulations!
I like how you modified the baron area, that really surpassed my expectations. Now you have a working, well playable map, which I'm satisfied with. Keep up the good work, and I'll give you some tips for future mapping, and if you follow them, you'll see people will accept your maps much better:

• Use wider grid, as I already said.
  
• Take multiplayer into account when making maps. Maps should be always completable in coop even if one of the players makes a mistake (such as trigger a line that closes a part of the map forever).
  
• Work more with texturing, your texturing often seems random or unfitting. Textures of floor, walls and ceiling should somehow go together, either have similar colour or make sense (coloured carpet + metal walls). Unless your goal is surrealism, pretend as if you're an architect making a real building. Real architect wouldn't use metal, brown bricks, green bricks and grey stone on floor together.
  
• Similarly with monster placement. It shouldn't feel too random, like if random monsters just stand in corridors. Let each monster appear in your map at least several times, unless it's meant as a boss. But if an only revenant in your map is just standing in your way and is as easy to kill as any other monster, it loses the effect.
  
• Make encounters interesting - for example your baron encounter was interesting - coming slow, so the player can prepare, but he also already knows the trap couldn't be avoided. I don't mean to make traps everywhere, but to less use the practice to place random monsters in player's way.
  
• Don't make just rooms, rooms, rooms connected by doors, doors, doors. "Merge rooms". For example create larger rooms consisting of parts with different height and lighting and of different shapes and with different monsters in them, etc.
  
• Use Keens as little as possible, as well as liquids on ceilings and other of the gimmicks that belongs to the infamous 1994 mapping. If they aren't used for something very good looking or good working, they're probably out of place. Keens are out of place because of their sprites and sounds, so I'd be better if they aran't used in regular maps, or at least if the player won't see them or hear them.

-and learn how to properly post videos ;) (don't ask me, I don't know, I only know your video didn't show up)

[Antroid]

mouldy said:

Didn't see that rule, I don't mind sticking to it though. Gives me less work to do! But if it looks like the project is missing a map, or has maps that aren't up to scratch, then I can help out. I'll leave it up to you guys.

I'm definitely not sticking to it. Will Eris not include your or my map if it's better than the other even if it's our fourth? Absurd! I say map while you've got inspiration and the mood for it.

[Tristan]

Anyone who wants to make a MAP28, go for it. The claiming limit was only really for the earlier days of the project, to stop people from doing pretty much the entire megaWAD themself.

[mouldy]

Cool, I'll have a play around in DB and see if anything good happens.

[cannonball]

I'm glad I have a megawad to complete so I don't accidentally claim another map slot :P

[Tristan]

cannonball said:

I'm glad I have a megawad to complete so I don't accidentally claim another map slot :P

I made a quick PNG, incase it's needed again :P


Also, layout complete, thing placement underway :)

[Tristan]

Bump for something that's taken much longer than it should have done.

MAP22: The Catacombs - V1.0.0




I expect there will be some problems, specifically in the ammo/health department, but overall I'm very pleased with this - my second serious map.
I started this in October, it's kind of weird that it's finally done :P

[cannonball]

Map22
This was one long ride. Played in pr-boom (default settings)
The map is visually beautiful, especially the cavernous areas with variety in themes of brown and green. The gameplay is rather easy though and I felt overpowered especially in the health department.
The cyber early on managed to get the jump on me and tried to force feed me rockets which I evaded.
The final fight of the map is a huge step up in difficulty, mainly due to one archvile which totally trolled me and is responsible for all of my three deaths on this map, before then the closest to death was about 70$% health.
There are issues, one of the masterminds was helplessly stuck (thing 421)
also a pain elemental and lost souls in sector 148 are stuck. Both areas the fix is simply increase the room.
Also 20% of the monsters do not warp in when I play the map (the green area with the cyber reveal). The door release mechanism looks odd here, merge sectors 1037-44 and give in a positive height (say 8), the door should open to allow monsters to teleport.

[mouldy]

Wow, map 22 is quite an adventure. Really nice looking map, I especially like the way you used lighting, very moody. I didn't have any problems in zdoom, at least I don't think I did - I didn't check if all the monsters ported in, to be honest I left a lot of them alive in the green slime ambush room. I would say the difficulty was ok, there wasn't anything massively taxing between the big fights but I was more into the exploring I guess.

I've noted a few minor things that might warrant attention:

This switch near the start, I'd move it down a bit so its flush with the brick texture, it seems a bit high up anyway.


This grating midtexture bugs me the way the top edge meets thin air, I'd try lowering it or raising the step maybe.


These revs had a hard time getting round that dip in the floor, don't know if thats intentional or not though.


This archvile couldn't do anything, think there wasn't enough space for him on top of that pedestal.

Really cool map, can see a lot of work went in to that.

[The_MártonJános]

Eris Falling said:

I made a quick PNG, incase it's needed again :P

Ah, so you also do love the font Impact :D

[Tristan]

mouldy said:

*error report*

Haha, it's all in the oldest parts of the map. Says it all :)
Like cannonball said, there's too much health, and possibly ammo. I've made a to-do list.

Thanks for feedback everyone :)

EDIT: Interesting note about the ambush doors CB, must've got my numbers mixed up :P

I'm not sure how to fix the quick Cyberdemon though. I had already moved the line to increase the distance.

[mouldy]

Eris Falling said:

I'm not sure how to fix the quick Cyberdemon though. I had already moved the line to increase the distance.

Is that the cyber that comes down on the lift and teleports out? I was wondering if that might be able to fire off a few rockets before vanishing... Later on you have a megasphere and blue armour sitting on invisible platforms, maybe you could have an invisible barrier in front of the cyber lift to block his rockets which instantly lowers when you get close.

[cannonball]

Eris Falling said:

I'm not sure how to fix the quick Cyberdemon though. I had already moved the line to increase the distance.

Draw a 16x16 square in the middle of the cyberdemon, point all the linedefs inwards and use them to teleport the cyber, he will teleport instantly, guaranteed.
Health/ammo wise it's best to leave it for now as a major contribution to this was the fact that 70 monsters didn't warp in which could completely change the dynamic of the map. For the teleport trap you are using a door which means the sectors must be merged for the door to work.

[Tristan]

mouldy said:

maybe you could have an invisible barrier in front of the cyber lift to block his rockets which instantly lowers when you get close.

I don't think monsters can see through self-referencing sectors.

EDIT: Thanks CB :D This also frees up those lines which means the player can get un-stuck from the lift

[The_MártonJános]

cannonball said:

16x16

The best to the instant is rather a diagonal (sqr)2*(sqr)2 square.

[Antroid]

I decided that I'm totally going to cheat with my attempt at map28 and connect it thematically to map29 a bit, to make including it in the wad look more appealing when it's done. :D

[glenzinho]

Eris Falling said:

Bump for something that's taken much longer than it should have done.

I expect there will be some problems, specifically in the ammo/health department, but overall I'm very pleased with this - my second serious map.

Awesome shit, Eris! Really impressive and somewhat epic. Not much wrong with ammo & health; it doesn't have to be Scroogey McScrooge time in every map. Again, well done.

[Tristan]

Thanks glen :) While you're right about that, I would like the level to be kinda difficult, but with that said, I can't get past the cathedral on most of my UV attempts -> I die in the Catacombs level before I've got to the catacombs, brilliant!

Anyway, V1.0.1

Changelog:

1. Cyberdemon now teleports quicker. Also, you can get out of his start position should you get stuck in there.
   
2. Various sources of health removed.
   
3. Mastermind is no longer stuck, neither is the sector 148 quartet.
   
4. "Green" monsters should now teleport in.
   
5. Initial GR Switch aligned
   
6. Cathedral midtextures fixed
   
7. Changed the circular water pit into something less interesting, revenants should be able to move about now.
   
8. Red-key AV is no longer stuck. It's also a lot easier to ascend the structure. I was getting pissed off with it anyway.
   
9. RGB room - the one with the barons - had a bunch of BIGDOORx textures I didn't replace. Now fixed.

I'll let you guys decide the difficulty for yourself.

[cannonball]

Excellent a couple more suggestions.
In the green area the barons I personally find a little awkward to kill. Perhaps you could substitute those for hell knights as they are easier to kill and their damage is only slightly less.
Somehow add 50kb more stuff into the map,950kb sucks for this wad :P

[joe-ilya]

Can I take map28 too?
I have some cool ideas.