Doom 2 In Name Only - Now (supsiciously) on a load of gaming articles

[mouldy]

plums said:

Since the problem appears to be semi-random, I may as well point out that in vanilla, killing the last two arachnotrons very close to one another but not at the same time can cause 667 sectors to raise twice. So I guess having some workarounds isn't a bad idea anyhow.

Yeah it seems to have happened to enough people to warrant some kind of back-up fix

[scifista42]

Eris Falling said:

And scifista, if you're reading this: I'd rather you took B8's version and put the techy stuff back in yourself. I don't know the mechanism.

Okay, I'll do it today.

Da Werecat said:

I got stuck on MAP07 in ZDoom. The stairs rose too high.

That's probably an unavoidable possible problem of all vanilla MAP07s that contain 2 or more arachnotrons. If you kill them with a very special unfortunate timing, the stairs raise twice. Even if the raise height is 64, it can happen. Personally I'd let it be, as the problem should be rare. But maybe I can try to improve it somehow. I've got an idea how to increase the raise height to 96, even despite the 64-AASHITTY bug described by plums. As far as I understand, not having any (-) empty lower textures should be enough?

[Antroid]

It seems like theoretically it should be really easy to fix this somehow. I'm not too sure how the rising by textures works, though.

I'm pretty certain it's possible to find a way around this, some way to make it possible to traverse the obstacle both when the platforms have risen once and twice, someone should just sit down to think for a bit, preferably someone who knows better than me how the rise by texture special works. Cuz I don't know if it's possible to make it, for example, rise only by 8 pixels, letting the player step onto a 32-tall platform, in which case rising twice wouldn't be a problem.

[mouldy]

Antroid said:

It seems like theoretically it should be really easy to fix this somehow. I'm not too sure how the rising by textures works, though.

I'm pretty certain it's possible to find a way around this, some way to make it possible to traverse the obstacle both when the platforms have risen once and twice, someone should just sit down to think for a bit, preferably someone who knows better than me how the rise by texture special works. Cuz I don't know if it's possible to make it, for example, rise only by 8 pixels, letting the player step onto a 32-tall platform, in which case rising twice wouldn't be a problem.

The simplest solution would be to have 3 extra steps hidden the floor, that will only appear above ground if the stairs are raised twice:

The holes in the ground won't be visible with no side textures. Its slightly inelegant maybe but then no worse than how it looks anyway when the bug happens.

[Da Werecat]

I don't remember exactly, but I think that in my case the stairs rose as high as to block the path completely. At least one of them looked like it went into the ceiling.

I can't verify it right now though.

[scifista42]

mouldy said:

The simplest solution would be to have 3 extra steps hidden the floor, that will only appear above ground if the stairs are raised twice:
http://www.mediafire.com/view/p9ny3pkd2lxgid5/map07-steps.JPG
The holes in the ground won't be visible with no side textures. Its slightly inelegant maybe but then no worse than how it looks anyway when the bug happens.

Thanks for the advice, but I cannot do it this simply. First, double-risen stairs actually block the "exit" entrance, so extra stairs wouldn't really help. Secondly, the area is on an absolute VISPLANE and DRAWSEGS maximum, I cannot afford more of them. I will try something else though...

[scifista42]

Double post, because I wanted to let you know that I'm done.

http://filesmelt.com/dl/fixes_07_19.zip

I've fixed the stairs in MAP07 and the bridge in MAP19. I've run through both maps in their entirety in Chocolate Doom, with IDDQD and IDKFA cheats. In case of MAP07, I've also thoroughly tested in PrBoom+. Everything worked as indended. Hopefully the errors are fixed.

[Da Werecat]

Just finished The Pit. When I finished it, I thought a lot, and then I said to myself: "Such a beautiful evening! How about spoiling it for everyone with a bunch of misalignments I found?" :)

This area should be checked thoroughly. Lots of unpleasant door frames. The closest one to the "camera" should be retextured with pipes, I think.
http://i.imgur.com/ekATkAS.png

Check the offsets of the greebly textures on the sides.
http://i.imgur.com/8SHmscC.png

These are from the different map, but still.
http://i.imgur.com/nLVVfjg.png
http://i.imgur.com/IHWKKm4.png

[Da Werecat]

MAPINFO:

1. Refueling Base is misspelled as "Refuelling Base".
2. I never saw any "entering" screens, only previous level's statistics.

[Tristan]

Da Werecat said:

MAPINFO:

1. Refueling Base is misspelled as "Refuelling Base".

[/b]

'Murica :'(

2. I never saw any "entering" screens, only previous level's statistics.

Interesting, I take it titlepatch needs to be defined, even if the defaults are used. Apparently, not the issue. I'm stumped.

Also, sorry I have been as communicative recently, I'm pretty busy at the moment. I'll add the 07 and 19 updates now, since I'm fixing the MAPINFO anyway. I received a PM about MP starts recently too, so I need to do something about that, but I won't be here for most of tomorrow and all of Thursday. I can possibly upload B9 on the weekend.

[Da Werecat]

A little strange texture selection. I think it was The Inmost Dens.
http://i.imgur.com/uxgYWnf.png

This chopper requires some serious attention.
http://i.imgur.com/NFWmTlF.png

Eris Falling said:

Apparently, not the issue. I'm stumped.

Maybe it has something to do with clusters?

[scifista42]

Da Werecat said:

Maybe it has something to do with clusters?

Yes. The maps should have assigned clusters. Clusters enable the correct "entering" screen, and intermission texts display between maps of different clusters. If you haven't cleared/redefined them in MAPINFO, clusters are predefined and it should be enough to add one line to each map definition:

cluster = [number]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the defaults are:

MAP01-06: cluster = 5
MAP07-11: cluster = 6
MAP12-20: cluster = 7
MAP21-30: cluster = 8
MAP31: cluster = 9
MAP32: cluster = 10


EDIT: Also MAP30 needs this treatment: next = EndGameC. Otherwise the megawad doesn't end properly.

[Antroid]

Da Werecat said:

A little strange texture selection. I think it was The Inmost Dens.
http://i.imgur.com/uxgYWnf.png

Wait, what's strange there? The different bricks on the right?

[Da Werecat]

Antroid said:

Wait, what's strange there? The different bricks on the right?

Not only on the right. Two walls are different from the rest with no apparent reason. As far as I know, it's not a clue for some secret, although I didn't look in the editor.

[scifista42]

Meh, you OCD guys are such nitpickers. :D

It's not like every particular part of the design must have a perfect purpose. I see what's your concern though, you're worried about player's ingame confusion. Alright. I didn't mean my reply any offensively. ;)

[Da Werecat]

scifista42 said:

Meh, you OCD guys are such nitpickers. :D

If only you could see the shots I didn't post. :)

[_bruce_]

I like to mix up textures among their similar alterations.
Werecat has a keen eye for detail so this might pain him a little.

[cannonball]

Da Werecat said:

This chopper requires some serious attention.
http://i.imgur.com/NFWmTlF.png

i don't think it's possible to make the chopper look better to be honest, you only see it from the side unless you noclip to the platform anyway. It was acceptable in Kama Sutra :)

[Antroid]

cannonball said:

It was acceptable in Kama Sutra :)

After watching that wad in alfonzo's streams, I want to say that nothing about that sort of object should be acceptable...

[Da Werecat]

Unfortunately, I can't upload any images right now. Was that chopper pasted from another wad? I'd suggest to compare what was copied with what was pasted, I'm sure there'll be a few differences.

[ella guro]

i like those Kama Sutra objects and you guys who are complaining about the helicopter are officially no fun. let each designer do their own thing.

[Da Werecat]

Look at it. It's broken. I'm not asking to remove it, I'm asking to fix it.

[Tristan]

This probably won't be finished for quite a while with me in charge. Anyone want to take over to get this thing finished?

[mouldy]

cannonball said:

i don't think it's possible to make the chopper look better to be honest, you only see it from the side unless you noclip to the platform anyway. It was acceptable in Kama Sutra :)

The "broken" chopper pic is from an angle you would never see in the game, so its not worth worrying about that. I reckon it could still be spruced up a touch though with some texture fiddling, if you wanted. I had a little go myself just out of curiosity:

Its never going to look real of course..

Eris Falling said:

This probably won't be finished for quite a while with me in charge. Anyone want to take over to get this thing finished?

There isn't anything left to do is there? The feedback coming in now seems to be mostly minor cosmetic stuff, and that could just go on forever, so maybe its ready to let it loose? Or is there other stuff that needs sorting out?

[scifista42]

Eris Falling said:

This probably won't be finished for quite a while with me in charge. Anyone want to take over to get this thing finished?

Come on, man! This project had gone a long way, and now there are just nitpicky tune-ups and, well, last finalizing works on compilation of everything needed. It's acceptable already, and it must get finally acceptable soon (whoever was in charge).
By the way, you were always doing well. :)
Of course if you're busy at the moment, assign the specific finalizing works to someone, you don't need to take care of them all yourself. Better somebody else than me, though, I *should* be busy with important real-life things right now, too. :)
(sorry, this might not sound very fair - I'm actually passing the most important exam in my life within a couple days, yet I procrastinate at Doomworld :|)

[Da Werecat]

mouldy said:

The "broken" chopper pic is from an angle you would never see in the game, so its not worth worrying about that.

I honestly thought it was supposed to look like this:


Instead of, well, this:


It took about 20 seconds to make the changes.

[Tristan]

mouldy said:

There isn't anything left to do is there?

I'm not entirely sure to be quite honest, because I've forgotten already what exactly needs doing.
I think the graphics are fixed, scifista fixes are now integrated, and just the MAPINFO needs fixing - though I am now stuck with XWE. I always make backups, but still get paranoid :P
The embedded DEH needs updating to the latest version too.
It's probably only about a half hour job, I may be mentally exaggerating the magnitude of stuff left to do.

However

scifista42 said:

sorry, this might not sound very fair - I'm actually passing the most important exam in my life within a couple days

Same here, although I have 2 weeks, but 5 exams.
I'm in a situation of "straight As or fuck you," yet if I were to sit them right this minute, I'd end up with some nice Es, Ds and Cs.
(note: I'm not stupid, just slightly out of my depth.)
I feel like a washing machine that can see someone approaching with a brick :P
I might be able to set aside some time tomorrow. Here's hoping.

[mouldy]

Da Werecat said:

I honestly thought it was supposed to look like this:
http://i.imgur.com/T1ojQX6.png

yeah now you mention it those struts underneath are a little strange, i figured the chopper was resting on them to give it some height so the angle looks more dramatic (of course it can't just be floating without the blades turning). The long legs look a bit goofy so maybe raising the platform and lowering the chopper a touch would work.

[Antroid]

In the past I would've probably volunteered to finish this thing off, but now I don't want a certain someone to have an aneurysm or twelve over the very idea of that happening ;D

[cannonball]

Da Werecat said:

I honestly thought it was supposed to look like this:


Instead of, well, this:


It took about 20 seconds to make the changes.

Oh that's your issue. Ok that can be easy to fix. I must admit to liking mouldy's vision of it (tekgreen works well I think)

I could help out in the final release of this if people wanted this thing done. I have free time in the evenings to burn anyway without any exam worries. Been there, done that comes to mind with exams :P