Stanimapping (Grindmapping) Exercise - GO GO GO!!!

[purist]

Springy said:

Oh, before I forget, how is one going to prove that it was in one sitting? Are you going to be giving a time limit or something?

No time limits or proof required, this is an exercise not a contest. Just some notes to go with your upload link saying when you started and ended (and total time) for interest.

[Springy]

Oh right, thanks for that. I know it's no contest but just wondered if one had to prove that it was in one sitting. I'll probably give myself a few practice shots then start one.

[Phobus]

I'm preparing myself for starting this now. I'd have gotten up earlier, but one of my mates thought it was terrible for me to still be sober on New Year's Eve, so he encouraged me to increase the potency of my drinks (with liberal additions of vodka), hence a lay-in being required :P


I did put some thought into industrial ideas last night, so I think I've got enough fuel to feed the mapping fire for half a day or so.

EDIT: Here I go! 12 hours of montage music would probably come in handy now...

EDIT2: Here's the progress after 1 hour. It's all shapes and no actual substance so far: http://i.imgur.com/ZQ89k.png

EDIT3: Three hours in and I'm bored of this already :\ I'll try and force myself to finish though.

EDIT4: No I won't. Really not feeling it today. I might have another crack at this later in the month. Won't bother saving this effort or anything.

[dobu gabu maru]

I'm gonna start mapping soon, hope to be done in ~3 hours. one hour

EDIT: Starting now.

EDIT2: Probably biting off more than I can chew, but let's see where it goes: http://i.imgur.com/ytQn5.png

EDIT3: lol no. Spent like an hour just working on the first room and got burnt out. I'll try again tomorrow with a more flexible map outline and promise to get it done. It's too late tonight.

What makes this difficult is unlike speedmapping the only thing limiting you is your own perseverance (or time schedule for the busy people), so you tend to overestimate what you can do in one sitting... or I do anyway.

[purist]

This is harder than I thought it would be. But... I've done my first grindmap. Sort of. Started at 17:33pm and finished 01:14am. Will upload tomorrow as I need to sleep now. I'm pretty pleased with the result but it's not been thoroughly tested by any means as I'm too tired to play well.

Keep grinding guys, don't let your map beat you!

[ArmouredBlood]

Industrial zones without decontex? That's going to be a bit different than I'd map. The exercise sounds interesting though.

[Egregor]

I like this idea, and I like the idea of making it a monthly event, each with its own setting theme. Unfortunately for myself (and probably for others too) I don't/can't map this way. My life is too 'real' to map for anything more than 4 or 5 hours. On days off where I have mapped for more than 5 hours my shit doesn't get taken care of and my girlfriend screams at me and threatens to throw the computer out the window. TMI?

[BaronOfStuff]

Egregor said:

I like this idea, and I like the idea of making it a monthly event, each with its own setting theme. Unfortunately for myself (and probably for others too) I don't/can't map this way. My life is too 'real' to map for anything more than 4 or 5 hours. On days off where I have mapped for more than 5 hours my shit doesn't get taken care of and my girlfriend screams at me and threatens to throw the computer out the window. TMI?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMV_r4LjQIo

Anyway, I'll start this at some point later today. I have more than enough scribbles and other random 'notes' to make something that should be playable.

[purist]

Clickable Thumbnail:


Had a busy day today but here's the level I mentioned yesterday:

Alligator.zip

Theme

My take on the industrial zone theme is a toxic spill in a wasteland. I am trying to make more use of environmental dangers so there's a lot of that.

Process

It's interesting to read people's processes, even though they haven't quite worked out yet. Here's a retrospective on mine:

Preperation: I had a rough idea of how the map might work and quite a specific vision for the start area. I sketched a skeleton bare layout prior to starting but it was more to see how the map would fit together than to plan any individual area.

17:33: I spent the first two hours layout down sectors to represent where all of the areas will set (excepting the exit) and detailing/texturing the start area. This would be the longest I would spend on any one area and I was shocked at what little I had done in this time!

19:30: I tried to make up time building and texturing the rest of the areas I had started above. I had a false start with the underground areas and pretty much deleted the full thing and rebuilt it from scratch. As a result it's quite sloppy looking.

21:30: By this point I was starting to wilt. Four hours unbroken might be close to the edge of my confort zone. It didn't help that it had been a late one the night before. I mainly worked on thing placement, line specials, lighting and sector specials during this time. It felt like my work rate had dropped.

23:30 - 01:14: The end game! I was determined to get done by midnight but I'd cut it too fine. Lucky for me the exit came together without much effort but it's pretty basic as a result of the timescale. I'd saved the bulk of the playtesting for now but I was too exhausted to play well so I god moded through to check ammo levels and guessed on health. I was finding quite a lot of bugs to fix since I had hurried through (even forgetting to place the blue key door!) I got those fixed and called it a day.

Conclusion

Total time spent: 7 hours, 41 minutes.

I've played it properly today and found that health is too low and a second rad suit is needed for the subteranean area. It's probably either not completeable or very difficult in UV. There's also some minor bugs that I'd like to fix and some fights that could be tweaked to balance them better. Unless you want a wicked challenge I would recommend playing on an easy difficulty for the reduced damage.

The exercise was a mixed bag for me. I found it reassuring that I could come up with workable solutions for all problems that arised without the luxury of time on my side but it was frustrating that some areas were underdeveloped and insufficiently playtested because of time pressures. If we do a compilation I would make some very minor fixes. If not, I will whip it up into a proper map as it has some charm.

Good luck the rest of you. I hope I'm not the only one with a map at the end of this. I might make a second one but only if I'm sure I have plenty of time, prefereably starting earlier.

[Katamori]

Just to mention, I've also started a map. *sigh* This is harder than it seemed.

[Katamori]

Sorry for the delay, I was just lame to upload pic&wad. :'D
--------------------------------------------------------------
So, the map is called "Slime River Factory". I can't really describe it, so...just try it! :D

Screenshot:


Download: http://rghost.net/42708220

BUILD LOG

12:56 Making an industrial map without pause? Why not? I just played one of the great levels of Alexander S. (Deadall), so I'm inspired. I call it "Industrial Town", and I hope I can stay this feeling. Enough talk, let's start!

13:30 I could make the basic shape of the beginning area, but this is not enough yet. Anyway, I'm going quite well.

13:42 I went to drink something + watched Doomworld Forums. It was 2-3 minute maybe. (PS.: Memfis is smart.)

13:58 Main area is going well but I think I won't be able to add any city-ish parts to this stuff. Maybe I should rename the map. Later.

14:08 Concept changed. New level name is: "Slime River Factory".

14:28 I made a corridor that I can't use now on any ways...smart planning. Maybe it will be a secret then, I think.

15:00 Thing are going way slower than I've expected...*sigh*

15:08 Another useless area is deleted. Maybe I'm getting closer...oh, did I mention that I don't want to spend more than 4 hours with mapping?

15:14 Another break before I die. 2-3 minutes again.

15:53 Done! Another break, because pissed myself of on this thing...I'm having enough soon. And the hardest part is just coming...
(PS.: Antroid is talented.)

16:06 I recorded the whole process of making the map, but I stopped now, because I started playtesting.

16:30 Done! Might be a bit harder, but definitely far from impossible. There are also some places for possible monster infighting and even
some possibilites for speedrun! (Arch-Vile jump at the end, for example)

That's it. The building time was 3 hours and 34 minutes. I didn't even want to spend more for it. I'm trying to be the man of quick solves. =)

My par time was 3:37. Who could beat it? (who not...? :D)

[dobu gabu maru]

Starting it from scrap at 1:33 EST. Tried to minimize my original plan; it'll only be a couple of rooms this time. I'll still wind up taking like 5 hours though.

2:14 Getting some food. Have the rough outline done, it's stupidly big. Going for macro detail instead of micro though.

4:04 My endless detailing habits are taking over. I'm not sure how much gameplay there is going to be in it... trying to map out the areas where you actually fight. Here's a preview of what I'm working on.

5:29 Dinner break. Gotta speed this up more, starting to get cramps in my fingers.

6:05 Back to work

8:09 still going lololol glad this is the only thing I had to do today

10:08 almost.... almost...

12:02 Done at about ~10 hours (subtracting any misc time). Haven't playtested extensively so it'll need tweaking, and difficulties. I've never even worked a job this seriously, but I kept pushing on knowing that I couldn't quit while it was still "incomplete". It's finished, not necessarily complete, but beatable. I'll submit it tomorrow when I get up the nerve to open doom builder again. Picture proof. Don't hold your breath for this level, it gets kinda ugly at the end.

I am not a smart man.

EDIT: also purist, I apologize in advance for the theme. It was supposed to be a "infiltrate the industrial base" theme but it would up being a "outside -> cave -> futuristic base" with little industrial inbetween. So it's... semi-industrial at best.

[cannonball]

I will do my map tomorrow :)

[dobu gabu maru]

Here's my contribution. Download Migdal Bavel. Music is by Aaron Walz.

Dunno how I feel about it. Spent way, way too long (ten friggen hours) making it and the finale falls kinda flat. I was tempted to add some additional things in, but stayed true to the spirit of the project. All I did today was add in more difficulties and balance the enemies out a tad more.

EDIT: forgot to change one of the ceiling textures.

[Ribbiks]

^ fda. went from 0 to 60 pretty quick there ey. I feel like the manc/rev room would've been extremely difficult had I not cheesed the mancs down from outside.

[purist]

Hey,

Caught up with this thread a little. I played Katamori's map first. Quite impressive. I can't remember it in all detail as I played most of it a few days ago and came back to it only to find I was practically at the exit. I remember thinking the soulspheres were a little excessive but I can forgive you for being cautious with provisions when playtesting time is at a premium. Good job. Exit time approx 6 mins


Today, I played Dobugabumaru's level. First thoughts having finished? Ambitous! Instead of making an industrial zone it initially looks like an industrial city. I'm no fan of the tiny changes in floor height but other than that I felt it had a cool old school vibe. Despite the city view all the action takes place inside, which is a bit of a shame but understandable considering the time restraints. Like Ribbiks I cheesed the manc/rev fight by dashing in for provisions and chipping at the mancs from the doorway. There's nothing particulary inviting about sticking around in that area until most of it's occupants are dead! The last room is a death pit at first go but is actually not too hard if you circle the room, pick off revs when necessary but otherwise let the cybs do the work for you. Nice work. Exit time approx 23 mins.

Watched Ribbick's demo too, he did a much better job on the level than I did.

I'm looking forward to Cannonball's map now. I'm finding it all very interesting.

Anyone played Alligator yet?

[Katamori]

Thank you purist! I didn't that it was asgood... :D

I watched your map, and...it's blocky - I mean, it looks like a regular Doom2 map in every aspects. Of course it's not a problem =)


dobugabumaru, I watched your map too, and this is...huge :D and so inspirational. And has unusual gameplay. Funny and nice =) however, it seems, on some places you made your own work harder with the small or/and unnecessary elements.

[Ribbiks]

@purist:

my fda was boring (I kept going into the poison area before realizing the switch behind the revs opened the chaingun area, so I died and ran out of ammo a lot), so here's a uv-max instead. fun little map.

[purist]

Wow Ribbiks, that demo was great to watch. I always enjoy watching people play my maps but it was especially cool seeing someone blitz it like you did, even more so when I thought I'd been unfair. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

@Katamori: Yes, I suppose it is blocky and Doom II like but that's more to do with my style than being rushed. I'm going for simple, classic looks at the moment.

[dobu gabu maru]

Thanks for the feedback/impressions guys. A lot of the issues stemmed from mapping fatigue, which is particularly why the final areas are really linear and uneventful (including the large underground stretch with no guys... it would've had enemies etched into the walls, revs on the balcony and an army teleporting in behind the player). And I liked running into the manc pit and running in circles :P

Played Alligator and thought it was an excellent, ball-buster of a map. It really feels like the inverse of mine, as I built it from the ground up with what I wanted to player to see, and Alligator had an excellent sense of enemy placement and layout. From tangoing with the revs to steal the RL to diving down in the nukage to scavenge for the red key, there were a huge variety of traps and distant enemy placement that kept the feel and pace of the level very kinetic and frantic. Great balance of health and ammo too, made me thankful for every item you graced the map with. Didn't quite like the end with the AV and his legion of skeletal bodyguards so I ran past em. Took about 5:30. Consider my interest piqued for your contributions to Hadephobia.

Also played Katamori's map. It was a fun little map with plenty of great detail (like the hallway full of hanging wires, or the missing boxes/vents in the wall). It had an alright progression, although you could tell it could be balanced better with more time (like the AV finale where you just run right into his raised arms). Took 5:00

[Katamori]

dobugabumaru said:

Also played Katamori's map. It was a fun little map with plenty of great detail (like the hallway full of hanging wires, or the missing boxes/vents in the wall). It had an alright progression, although you could tell it could be balanced better with more time (like the AV finale where you just run right into his raised arms). Took 5:00

And now imagine that my original plan was to put a Cyberdemon instead of the Arch-Vile!

[Walter confetti]

sounds interesting... sign me in!

[Phobus]

I was thinking of giving this another go, so I figured I'd check out what we already have!

Couldn't download Katamori's map, as apparently the file has been deleted.

Played Alligator, which was a nice, challenging and classic-feeling map. I actually didn't get the radsuit until after I'd gotten the red key (which meant I was really fighting to get through to it!) and didn't land the plasma gun until I had the blue key, which at least meant I was pretty comfortable for the final fight. Was pretty tight on health once or twice, but given how unprotected I made myself, that's to be expected. Found both secrets, got 100% kills and managed not to die! Good stuff :)

Also played Migdal Bavel, which is very visually impressive. Starts you off with a great and surprisingly complex view, given you made it in 10 hours! Visuals stay consistently great throughout and the challenges are fair and enjoyable. Contrary to other people, I cheesed the Revenants from the doorway and then got up-close and personal with the mancs.


So far this exercise has produced two very nice results (and possibly a third, but I can't play it if I can't download it!). I'll certainly be less ambitious than dobugabumaru if I do have another go at this - probably end up with something smaller than purist did too, but his approach of a short, sharp shock is looking more like the one I might be able to pull off myself too.

EDIT: Links to the maps in the OP might be helpful for if this thread (or a later one with a different theme) get much longer than 3 pages or so.

[purist]

I'm glad you enjoyed them Phobus. I have acted upon your suggestion and added links to the three maps produced so far in on the OP. The bonus being that I've reuploaded Katamori's map to a more secure site so it hasn't been lost into inter-space :-)

Good luck re-attempting this. I'm hoping Walter's effort didn't collapse also. The initial interest in this exercise has yet to materialize but that's understandable given it's something of a challenging undertaking. Still, I'm hoping we get a few more maps as it's interesting to see what people can do under these semi-self imposed restrictions. I wonder if dobugabumaru's 10 hour marathon will be overtaken too!

[Phobus]

Thank you very much purist! Katamori's map is surprisingly detailed for the time limit, but is otherwise more the kind of thing I was expecting from an endurance challenge in terms of size and simplicity. Quite a fun play too, with wild variation in how much health one can expect to have at any given moment, due to the high-damage output from monsters and large pickups. That's 3/3 for the Phobus seal of approval.


I suppose the conundrum with grind mapping is that, usually, if you're going to put a huge deal of time in on one sitting, it's because you're passionate about what you're doing, whilst this exercise necessitates a from-scratch start in a given theme, so one will probably be thinking of something specifically for the time. Might explain the relatively low success rate so far at least!

I'm trying to get a pretty accurate blueprint of something small (but interesting) in mind so that I can realistically pull it off this time, so my re-attempt should have more hope.

[scifista42]

I decided that I'll find some time for stanimapping next week. Posting this just to let you know and also to ask: I've been thinking about industrial zone concepts and I found out that many of Doom 1 textures are ideal for this particular theme. I wanted to share that idea right now to maybe give people some inspiration. The TEKWALLs, midbars, doors, walls with lights... So would you let us to use this texture pack? Please, please :D

http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=11882

[purist]

@Phobus: You're probably right. It's a lot of effort to put in. I hoped having a vague theme and the flexibility of a whole month might counter this but perhaps not. Personally, I found that getting a couple of hours in became incentive enough alone as I didn't want what effort I'd already made be wasted by not finishing.

@scifista42: You can, but after you're done you'll need to seperate the textures you use from the resource and include them in your WAD so that if I compile them I don't have to include the whole texture WAD alongside the levels. Good luck!

[dobu gabu maru]

Phobus said:

I'm trying to get a pretty accurate blueprint of something small (but interesting) in mind so that I can realistically pull it off this time, so my re-attempt should have more hope.

Try and aim for something small. Finished small projects mean more than large, unfinished projects, and the last thing you want to do is strangle your own project or trash it because you're tired of working on it during your marathon (which is probably likely). I'm considering another attempt at this except focusing on gameplay, and 3-4 rooms so I don't find myself aligning miscellaneous textures again 8 hours in.

purist said:

I wonder if dobugabumaru's 10 hour marathon will be overtaken

I hope not; I do not wish that kind of stress on anyone.

[Walter confetti]

probably i'll made something tomorrow.... industrial zone places isn't? I'll see what i can i do...

Also, i'll see another interesting project in zdoom forums that i want to participate...

[Katamori]

Thank you Phobus! I wouldn't call my map so detailed, I just want to make the walls fit to the ceiling/floor as usually =)

...and maybe I want a bit more. :D