The DWmegawad Club plays: Realm of Chaos

[Jayextee]

Two Bagrow maps, so close together and then that's it? I haven't ran out of swears yet, say it ain't so!

That said, looking at the beginning of MAP16 I have a vague recollection that it ain't so bad. Not taking bets whether or not I'm wrong though. ;)

[Demon of the Well]

I reckon most players will find map 16 less offensive than Bagrow's other two maps, if for no other reason than that it's shorter.

[Kristian Ronge]

Map 15 -- Infestation
Well, this one is large, it's oversized to the point of taking on epic proportions towards the end, it's very bare ... and it's perfectly suited to my taste. :-) I adore designs like this, where the player feels small and lonely. And a lonely affair it is, because even with a relatively high monster count, lots of places feel almost empty. Gameplay was right up my alley; though the map layout prevented the action from ever becoming tense, there are some rather cool fights, especially in the area behind the blue key. I agree that much of the action in the early stages of the map suffers from the player not being equipped with the SSG.

Progression is a rather basic collect-two-keys-in-any-order-then-head-to-the-exit-area design, but there's plenty of stuff to kill along the way and lots of nice monster closet traps. I took the RK first and then the BK, which probably turned out to be the most difficult way to play it (I pushed all the switches in the RK section right away, and was lucky to survive the ensuing crossfire with so little in the way of firepower, it gets nasty!). After getting the plasma rifle, a soulsphere and a blue armour in the BK room I never looked back... you're given plenty of ammo and health to deal with the vast number of stronger monsters thrown at you.

The first secret was easy to spot, and I stumbled upon the second (and the third one is located in the same area, but that one didn't seem to serve any purpose?) and secret exit, but played on to kill everything, and was glad I did. The YK pyramid ascent and Cyber finale were fun. :-) In summary, it's a bit crudely executed and could have done with the SSG being handed out earlier, but I had a great time playing it. --4/5

Map 31 -- The Mansion
Small action-packed mansion map (duh), tons of secrets for such a small area but not a single one that's clever -- even the secret exit was painfully easy to find! You're bascially handed access to it as a bonus when finding another secret. All but two of the rest of the secrets are all push-the-bookcase. The fights are pretty fun throughout, especially the AV trap which was a blast and the highlight of the map for me.

Progression is a bit unorthodox: roam around the mansion collecting all three keys, then head to the exit. As has been noted, there seems to be no way back from the exit area so you can get yourself stuck if you don't have all three keys when going down there. This is of course an inexcusable design flaw, particularly since that area is almost immediately accessible to the player. There are some other design quirks, such as pointless side rooms which contain nothing, and some rooms which serve no purpose other than showing off switch effects seemingly, but overall I think it's a nice ten minute distraction, just not (as was mentioned) very unique or exhilarating. --3/5

Map 32 -- Nowhere to Hide
If for nothing else, this map is interesting for one reason: it demonstrates very clearly why Doom is such a successful game: you don't need more than a handful of slapped-together sectors, a pile of weapons and ammo, and a bunch of heavy-hitting monsters to have at least a bit of fun. It's a simple arena battle setup, you're given everything you need to take down all the monsters right off the bat, and then proceed to release them in small groups, until you open up the corridor surrounding the arena, where the boss monsters await.

Surely, it's simple -- but it's rather effective; this is a map I wouldn't mind playing again and again to push myself below a stipulated time. It would probably have been popular as a DM map back in the day, too. :-) That, of course, does not mean that it doesn't lack a certain degree of finesse (it's not nearly as intense as it could/should be... just too easy to run past everything), and the sequence with the rising wall is totally uncalled for, as you can inadvertently trap monsters behind it who will then be very difficult to kill off if maxrunning. No secrets (you start in the only one). --2/5

[Jayextee]

Demon of the Well said:

I reckon most players will find map 16 less offensive than Bagrow's other two maps, if for no other reason than that it's shorter.

I got curious and just played it...

...writeup coming tomorrow, of course. ;)

[cannonball]

MAP31 - “The Mansion” by Slava Pestov
Fatal bug in this one, if you go to the exit first without the three keys there is no return.
Too block and too many doors, I guess to try and make it realistic, still it's disrupts flow which is a shame as there are some quite violent moments which are fun to take care of. Ammo seems nicely balance, just enough to blast the hordes way.
obligatory pestov platform, east to find secret exit.
Highlight is definitely the fact you can lock the toilet and bathroom. That made me laugh :)

MAP32 - “Nowhere to Hide” by Rob Berkowitz
Very primitive, but you can have fun with this level, just a little too easy to just leave the map that's all.

[Veinen]

Map 14: Die Hard

Terrible. The map is ugly and seriously all over the place. I mean, first there's a canyon, then some kind of a techbase that has a sidewing filled to the brim with crates. Then the techbase transforms suddenly into a marble nightmare and after that is an another gray yard that we are already so accustomed to see in this wad. The fact that there are three Pestov Platforms doesn't make it any better looking.

How about the gameplay then? Well the map starts off pretty good actually as I kinda like the canyon fight with the hitscanner hordes. Rushing for the armor up in the ledge with a chaingun in hand seemed to work well for me. You will be hit hard that way but the next room is very easy and then there's soulsphere secret so it's not really a problem. The cargo room is just stupidly designed since the "big fight" there is just a chokepoint slugfest like others have already pointed out. And the red key hole got me too... Such a devious trap by Jim! Marble room is simply awful and so very very annoying. Shitload of barrels for no reason, hitscanner firing from above with little very little cover narrow walkways etc. And that fucking pit of death with pointlessly placed mancs in there. Why? I'm a maxkill guy so that is just unforgivable. Pestov Platform conference room is okay I guess, nothing special but at least it wasn't annoying. But overall I feel a deep hatred towards this map, mainly because of that marble abyss which left a really sour taste in my mouth.

I had an FDA that included a suicide by rocket fire in that red key hole I dropped into, followed by a near maxrun. I managed to kill everything in the final area but the mancs in the pit were still alive so I went back to get them. I didn't know about the deadly slime at that point so I jumped down without much thought and melted to death quickly. Aaaand that demo was gone.

Map 15: Infestation

This map was pretty damn huge. Not huge in the same complex way like say Steves first map but more like needlessly huge with rooms that feel empty despite a relatively big monster population. There are some good looking spots in the map though, like the final canyon with the pyramid in the middle or the green/wood -room behind the red door. Other than those it's pretty bland and unmemorable looks-wise.

The map isn't very hard either, partly because of the vast open areas. There's just so much room to maneuver and there aren't any moments where the player is pinned down with his back against the wall. I can't really think of any particularly tough moment, perhaps the archvile in the metal dome could kill you but my health was way over 100 at the time so getting burned once was not a big deal. Red key trap was the lowpoint of the map as it's unnecessarily tedious. Mastermind placement is interesting but I didn't give her much respect and gunned her down with the plasma rifle with using hardly any cover :p That strategy made the fight super easy actually. Cyber's a cyber but he was alone so bfg:ing him was easy enough.

This map doesn't really have many memorable qualities other than the pyramid but I too managed to find some enjoyment out of it for some reason. Maxed it in my first try too with relative ease. Didn't have much problems finding the secret exit either but somehow managed to spend 28 minutes in this map.

Secret maps up next then. Already played through map 32 and I think I'll play 31 tonight still so writeups tonight/tomorrow. Also sort of accidentally played through map 16. A pleasant surprise I must say.

[Kristian Ronge]

Map 16 -- The Wolf's Hour
This one starts out in what looks like a very old-school DM area, with some platforms and buildings set in an open courtyard. You're thrown right into action as at least a dozen or so monsters open fire at you immediately. Fortunately, as in map 13, you're given all the firepower you'll need right away. Tense!

From here, you descend into the sewers, but only after releasing an Arch-Vile flanked by a couple of Barons in a fun little trap. The sewers are suitably dark and eerie, and although this part is a wee bit mazey it's not at all difficult to navigate. I was expecting some kind of trap somewhere down there, but to my surprise it never sprung. In fact, the fights were extremely sensible and fair, with barrels acting as problematic/strategic elements. Back from the sewers, it's onto the last bit, the cavern area, which is the highlight of the map IMHO. Jim manages to make this area beautiful with very small means, and it's tough as well, with several hitscanners hitting you from amazing distances.

This was surprisingly fun to play, in spite of (or perhaps because of?) its simplicity. As you're given all the weapons straight away, you can choose when you want/need to pull out the big guns; you'd better save rockets and/or plasma for the cavern. ;-) I'm amazed that this was made by the same author who made map 4 and map 14, this is leagues better, for many reasons (it has to be his latest work in this trilogy of maps). I mean, it has no brainless progression quirks or bullshit setups. The final trap is even ... underwhelming, 10 imps after fighting through all that? Come on, man, I was *expecting* a dickish move there... By far Jim's best map in this WAD, and one I'd care to play again many times. Again, no real secrets. Nice one! --3/5

[Jayextee]

Technically leaping ahead (by 20 minutes), but I have a busy day tomorrow so probably can't commit to this:

MAP16 - THE WOLF'S HOUR
by Jim Bagrow

Holy fuckcheese, I liked this map! Honestly, I did.

Opens up probably trying to invoke a little of Sandy Petersen's own MAP16, The Suburbs; with an open-plan layout of gritty textures and an Archvile encounter with just enough cover to make it no problem; I can imagine pistol-starters having quite the task here of rushing for the chaingun to pick off hitscanners before dealing with an encroaching cacodemon threat -- but there's an ample amount of health scattered around to offset hitscan damage.

Getting the red key is about as Bagrow dickmove as the map gets; several times I fell victim to my own buckshot exploding close-by barrels in the near-pitch-black network of tunnels leading to the red key's room; although this is not really taxing, just sneaky. I admit a certain fondness of dodging projectiles in the dark though, that was nice.

Back to the main area and clean up the remaining stimpacks (think I left a couple of medikits though; for safety's sake. Weren't needed) and the red key door. Teleport to a new area.

Underground there's a rocky 'border' of hitscanners with a small group of mancubuseses heading my way, no problem. This area seemed to be a top-up gauntlet to give me more ammo and health, so I'm kinda dreading it when I get to the door, which inside contains an ominously-placed berserk pack on a Pestov Platform... oh dear. I carefully dispatch chaingunners and arachnotron, then meticulously shogun the minor imp barrage, get the berserk and save my game. Ready for a Jim Bagrow shitshorm!

But, nothing. That was the (unmarked) exit switch. Ah well. Short and sweet.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP16 The Wolf's Hour

Wolf's Hour? Okay, I don't see anything in this map that really is related to Wolfenstein 3d, but whatever.

If I were forced to play one of Jim's three maps, this would be the one. It's the shortest, least unfair, and the one that, I hate to say it, is the least ugly. I know, Die Hard had somewhat better architecture, but at a price of gameplay.

First half: As I had said before, the action at the start had me going right away. It wasn't too bad, given that there is an SSG, a plasma gun, and a chaingun in the vicinity, (not to forget the shotgun the player starts on) and clearing everything out didn't take too much toll. Nice Pestov platform too, probably my favorite of the platforms given its openness and the trap it triggers (there's no archvile on HMP though). Next was the non-damaging-nukage, as seen in MAP04, but in 64-wide corridors with hitscanners and random barrel placement. This made the level suck somewhat, as I had to worry about shooting a barrel too close to myself while going for the red key. The corridors marked a rare time I used the single shotgun this far into the wad. Got the red key to go to the second half.

Second half: A border of hitscanners and a few demons and mancubi at ground level. Okay, plasma gun works best on the border monsters, SSG the rest. ASHWALL2 is everywhere on the walls. I guess it's okay, I'm using that texture quite a lot in my upcoming slaughterfest map. But I find it a bit overkill here to be honest. Next area, an arachnotron and some imps, easily dispatched. Again, ASHWALL2 on the walls, and even the Pestov platform has it. It's also the first Pestov platform where the switch is an exit, although maybe it should have a marker (unless the berserk pack was the marker! :P). Good first half, okay last half, this is Bagrow's best map in terms of fun factor. Final Time 3:11.

[dobu gabu maru]

MAP16: This map starts off as Bagrow’s least offensive level—big open area, plenty of goodies to pick up, some basic fights, a good archvile use… and then that tunnel. While not blatantly terrible, it does slow down the gameplay and the only interesting part about it is whether to shoot left or right first at the next fork. The red key leads us to a secret (?) which leads us to a teleporter with two dickish chaingunners plopped down behind the player, along with sergeants perched at a ledge. Since I was at 34% health entering the teleporter, I basically kept casting my dice at the map until fortune favored me in the outcome (with a fitting 1% health remaining). The finale is an unfortunate let-down as the imps and arachnatron are unable to touch me, with an additional berserk waiting for me just incase I fall asleep and let a fireball singe my hair.

I’m tempted to say it’s his best map, but man, did that tunnel section really just drag on. At least it's a tasteful sendoff.

[Capellan]

Map14
Now THIS is a 1994 wad. I don't care what year it was actually made :) Abrupt and random texture shifts, arcade-y sections (crate platforming), sniping monsters that are too high to be seen, leaps of faith guided only by the automap. It's got all that, and Pestov Platforms too!

The bits that are memorable are noteworthy for the wrong reasons, and the rest is a mediocre experience.

[cannonball]

MAP16 - “The Wolf's Hour” by Jim Bagrow
To be honest I was not too keen on the start, I died half a dozen times due to being sniped by chaingunners. The fact they fired instantly whenever I peaked out from behind the columns was not great (they didn't when monsters were in their path sigh).
The archvile was well placed though which is something.
The tunnel section was boring.
The area after the red key yet again suffered from the hitscan pain, the chaingunners are a real screw you moment.
The final room, Jim had obviously given up, 10 imps, you serious :P
Overall it is the best of the entries by Bagrow, with the less WTF moments, the shorter map in general and the more consistent theme, at least it makes it more playable than the other disaster zones.

[Memfis]

16 - -fast demo - urghh, a big part of this map takes place in the dark tunnels where I can't see anything. Very very annoying. But the opening and the first cave fight are really nice with -fast. Not much else to talk about.

[Steve D]

Map15 (Continuous) – Infestation by Rob Berkowitz – Kills – 96, Items – 100, Secret – 100. Time 52:42. End Health 97, Armor 46. Death Count - 3

This has always been one of my favorite Rob Berkowitz maps. With its epic scope and sometimes gimmicky, yet slick gameplay, and plenty of action, this map is a big, fun romp for me.

I was surprised by how easily I handled the open yard full of hitscanners, Imps and Pinkies, but playing continuous meant I had the perfect weapon to deal with pesky hitscanners, a well-oiled, fully loaded chaingun. Thus equipped, I stood right in the middle of the doorway and mowed ‘em down, taking only a couple hits. Because I came in at high health, I took the opportunity to go kamikaze and charged into the yard, heedless of enemy fire, allowing them to take me down to about 100 while I picked off the zombieboys, who did the most damage.

Then it was into the Huge Metal Room. Good Lord, is this room big, but Rob’s use of Mancs and Cacos means you need to stay alert – at my skill level, anyway – or you’re toast.

Once that area was cleared, I took the red key route. I actually enjoyed the red key room, and I always did. Rob was pretty slick with his working of the descending walls around the key, and the rising walls that revealed the Imps and zombieboys looked kinda cool to me. Like the rest of the map, it was too big for maximum player danger, but my crappy corner abuse saw me take a lot of damage. I needed those Medikits in there. ;D

Then it was onto the red door, where your objective is to activate a switch that helps open a path to the secret BFG on a darkened Pestov Platform, but not before getting strafed at the Chaingunner trap. I really like this room. I think it looks cool and it’s fun to play. I suffered my first death in the outer hallway when I made a mistake against one of the Hell Knights. Once everything’s been killed near the doorway, killing the Manc is easy, then the surprise Chaingunners get blasted, too. I watched the Memfis demo before I played. ;)

Rob didn’t like making Midgrate and similar textures impassable, mainly because he liked rocketing Imps and watching them fly through the fence. In this map, it’s the Manc turret with the unintuitive gossamer fence, and players can get confused, as Alfonzo did, because we don’t expect that we can walk right through fences.

The Revvie shocker made me jump. I still suck at dealing with Revvies, so their scream remains one of the most unnerving things in Doom for me. I also ended up with rockets on my tail for almost a full circuit of the room! ;D

After this, I went to the ugliest part of the map, the Stone3 section. I learned to hate Stone3 because it was Hellmaker’s default wall texture, and in early maps I spent a lot of time replacing it with something else. Anyway, you get the blue key after a nice little fight with hitscanners, Cacos and PEs, and you’re given some Medikits and a Blue Armor if you need them. After this battle I fell for one of Rob’s design tricks, because when I teleported back, I saw Hell Knights launching slime at me, so I advanced to the rear – straight into the Revvie trap. D’oh! Hadn’t I just watched the Memfis demo? I fled in panic – straight off the platform and into the Huge Metal Room, where I tried to engage the Revvies, who soon disappeared. As I learned, they had teleported away to the blue key room, which is presumably why I got only 96% Kills. Shucky darn!

After killing some Imps and an Archie, you come to the biggest Stone3 room in the map. Yeesh, but it’s ugly. Open fire on the tempting Arachnotron and you’ll wake up the Cacos and PEs as well. I had to open saved games in order to survive the PEs. My best strategy was to stay up there, because every time I instinctively retreated, I went back down the lift and that meant the PEs clustered at the top and kept spitting out Lost Souls, who came down to attack me and used up my ammo. After a few tries, I found a sweet spot – or got lucky – and took out the PEs first and managed to get several Cacos killed by the Arachnotron. Going onto the switch platform got me a Hell Knight and Manc surprise, and I spent some time promoting infights. I could have shaved a good 8 minutes off my time if I hadn’t done this here and in other parts of the map, but I like to watch infighting, so I didn’t mind.

The switch activates a number of doors, including the Arachnotron Surprise, the final door for the secret Pestov Platform and BFG super-secret, and raises the bars leading to the Super Gigantic Ziggurat Room. But first you have to kill the spider babies, their mama, and 2 more Archies, one right there, and one wandering about the Huge Metal Room.

As DoTW said, you really need to play the ziggurat even if you plan to take the secret exit. For me, this was the hardest fight in the map. But before I got there I decided to go kamikaze, and as soon as I reached the high platform allowing a view of all that epic enormousness, I jumped right in and had a whale of a time promoting infights among the Cacos, Revvies, Arachnotrons and Imps. I just kept running around and around near the normal exit, not firing a shot as they killed each other. Once the Imp population dropped enough, I polished off the surviving Cacos and fired rockets at the high Imps. The most satisfying hit sent an Imp flying yards into the sky, and then its body climbed the steep stairs. Ah, such joy!

I got killed twice on the ziggurat, the first time because I didn’t realize the Cacos had been released, and I fought them stupidly while trying to promote infights with the high Arachnotrons. The next time I watched as a curving wall about half a mile long rose to reveal the Caco swarm. Cool. I tried fighting them with the PG and switched too late to the BFG. Several saved games were used to prevent still more deaths until I finally killed a small cloud of them and won through to the final “fight” with Herr Cybie. Just a BFG slapdown in all that space. Then I went back upstairs to the secret exit, which gives a little homage to E1M3 and contains Wolfenstein texrtures completely unrelated to anything in the secret maps.

Overall, I find Infestation to be a cleverly designed, if overlarge map loaded with enemies and action. The fights are not very deadly because of the room sizes, but they throw you enough monsters to keep you interested and busy killing them all. Some of the areas are kind of blah looking, while others are downright ugly, but the Super Gigantic Ziggurat Room looks cool. But as Capellan and others have noted, Rob was not one to accessorize his walls, relying on one texture – in some cases for an entire area – with insets like computer panels and such being quite rare. I wonder if that’s why Hitherto called him “a lazy genius”?

Rob tended to make abstract maps with set-piece battles. In this one, he created the most epic map in the entire megawad, and for me, it’s one of the best.

[Steve D]

Map31 (Continuous) – The Mansion by Slava Pestov – Kills – 105, Items – 96, Secret – 77. Time 18:06. End Health 90, Armor 77. Death Count - Zero

The start looks like an homage to Memento Mori’s “Mansion,” by Alden Bates, even though in Slava’s the wooden outside “door” is entirely fake, as opposed to being a rising sector in the original. By comparison to the Bates inspiration, Slava’s map is much smaller and, IMO, a lot more fun to play, at least in single player. IIRC, the Bates map was geared more to co-op. Which reminds me that, even though we added co-op starts, items and monsters, we never tested RoC on co-op or deathmatch, and I haven’t the slightest clue whether any of the maps are effective in those modes, nor have I ever heard anyone talk about playing them that way.

Back to The Mansion. The start is a nice challenge, unless you play continuously, in which case the anti-hitscanner chaingun makes short work of all those Sergeants. We are also quickly introduced to yet another epic fail by the Steve & Rob Playtesting Team by way of Slava’s infamous no-way-back exit area. I can imagine the exasperated sighs of disgust if Alfonzo and Tarnsman take this route. My, an early exit that makes the entire map optional. I won’t kick my own ass again over this, because it’s really just too damned funny. ;D

I can’t say there’s any memorable battles in this map. Almost all of it is open door, kill monsters. Traps are few, doors are many, so there’s no worry about roamers sneaking up behind you. The only tricky part is the weird Archie surrounded by monsters deal. I saw the Memfis demo before I played – I actually watched about 3 Memfis demos while having breakfast – and I took his route, which leaves the player 100% safe because all the monsters teleport into the bedroom and the door has a block monster line. Seriously, that’s a pretty damned idiotic fight design. What the map does have is enough nibbling to keep players – at least at my skill level – constanly bleeding whenever they make mistakes.

The main thing is that the map is pretty good-looking for a realistic design, with enough shooting and BFG-slapping to make it a fun romp. You can also raise and lower the nukage level in the bathtub, so what more can you ask for?


Map32 (Continuous) – Nowhere To Hide by Rob Berkowitz – Kills – 100, Items – 50, Secret – 100. Time 10:58. End Health 155, Armor 158. Death Count - Zero

Maps with 2 Cybs, a SpiderQueen, and small armies of Arachnotrons, Revvies, Mancs and Barons don’t get any easier than this. ;D But while watching the Memfis demo before I played, it occurred to me that Rob designed this weird arena to enjoy the sheer spectacle of all that slime, fireballs and rockets flying through the air. It really is a sight to behold, kinda like The Super Giant Ziggurat Room in Map15. And hey, why not? After all, they won’t shoot you for making maps like this.

I had all kinds of infantile glee in this one. I was actually chuckling as I ran around all the Barons, Mancs and Revvies to promote infighting. It was almost like a Stardate set-piece. But perhaps the biggest joy was luring out the SpiderQueen to face the Cybs. She was able to tackle them one at a time, killing the first while the second was dusting off Barons on the raised walkway. Then it was a duel of the survivors and Queen Spidey lost, but damaged the Cyb enough to make him an easy kill.

There’s not much more to the map than that. This is Rob at his abstract, set-piece best, if you see this map as a humorous statement. It probably wasn’t intended that way, but sometimes the funniest things were originally meant to be taken seriously, like Plan 9 From Outer Space, but they’re so wacky you can’t take them seriously.

All I can say is I had a lot of fun, had some giggles, and I really liked it.

[Steve D]

Tompig said:

Gaaaaaaaaaaah doomworld ate my massive post.
sigh.

That happened to me several times, so now I write my posts in Word and copy/paste them into Doomworld. Give it a try. ;)

[Steve D]

Map16 (Continuous) – The Wolf’s Hour by Jim Bagrow – Kills – 100, Items – 100, Secret – 100. Time 14:38. End Health 100, Armor 70. Death Count - Zero

You know the megawad as a whole is getting better when a Bagrow map doesn’t cause ecstasies of rage. I guess I’ll have to stop calling him Jagoff Jim, which was rude, anyway, since he isn’t here to defend himself, but if he was ever to Google Realm of Chaos, I’d hate for that to be the thing he sees, because, even if the best one can say about his previous maps is, to quote Tarnsman, “it exists,” their existence helped to complete the megawad on schedule. So allow me to apologize to Jim. Further, look at all the fun we’ve had ripping these maps apart. Oceans of ink have been spilled, by me in particular, over these interesting travesties. The humor value of all the pain we’ve gone through has to be worth something. ;D

In previous maps, Jim was kind of like that obnoxious, mean kid who lives down the street, who’ll toss a rock through your window if you say, “Get off my lawn!” And if you get him in trouble with his parents, he’ll come back and poison your cat. In this map, we see a more restrained Jim. Jayextee even compared it to Sandy Petersen’s The Suburbs. As sacriligeous as that might sound, it makes a certain kind of sense, in that Sandy was an axe-murderer who made a lot of inspired but ugly maps. And I can’t help wondering if the reason Romero made the likes of IWAD Map11, 15, 17 and his ultimate masterpiece, The Living End, was because he had to compete with the sheer brutality of Petersen. But that’s a side issue. ;)

I accidentally pistol-started this map on UV before the club even voted on this megawad, and got killed about 3 times at the start, but as with Map04’s Fucking Archvile Room, there are winnable strategies, you just might have to die a few times figuring them out. Even on a continuous start this time, my health was taken down significantly by well-placed enemies, especially that high, distant Chaingunner in Sector 49.

One good way of beating this area is to run behind the buildings to funnel the monsters, and grab the PG as soon as you can. Or you can take the more dangerous way, as I did this time, of going for the RL, even though you get much less cover and take way more hits.

The modified Pestov platform looked kinda cool, I must say, and is one of two Pestov platforms in this map. Jim seems to have had a thing for this structure. Now he’s gone so far as to compose Variation On A Theme By Pestov. ;D

The Archie reveal almost finished me, but I opened a saved game to try that battle again. Then it was into the nukage maze, the low-point of the map for me. Quite dull, and luckily, I remembered the sneaky barrel-placement in Sector 114, where you have to turn a corner, which alerts a Chaingunner around the next corner, so that in startlement you shoot the barrel and kill yourself. Well, you didn’t get me this time, laddie!

After getting the red key you teleport into a cave and have two Chaingunners behind you blasting away while you’re distracted by Mancs and Sergeants in front and Sergeants on a platform all around you. Ah, now this is the dick-move Bargrow we all love! ;D I honestly had great appreciation for this example of Bagrow’s killer instinct, and this cave fight was good fun and quite dangerous. Yeah, this was a blast. This is where we begin to see the mapper Bagrow might have become if he’d kept evolving.

I’m pretty sure this is the map Rob and I felt underwhelmed by, because the lame ending at another Pestov Platform with its weak Imp trap gave the impression that Jim had lost steam and didn’t give a shit anymore. A few Chaingunners in there, or Mancs or even Archies would have been true Bagrow.

As always, I admire Jim’s viciousness. He came, he saw, and he generated controversy. Gotta give the man his props. :)

[Kristian Ronge]

dobugabumaru said (about map 16):
The red key leads us to a secret (?) which leads us to a teleporter with two dickish chaingunners plopped down behind the player

cannonball said (about map 16):
The area after the red key yet again suffered from the hitscan pain, the chaingunners are a real screw you moment.

SteveD said (about map 16):
After getting the red key you teleport into a cave and have two Chaingunners behind you blasting away while you’re distracted by Mancs and Sergeants in front and Sergeants on a platform all around you. Ah, now this is the dick-move Bargrow we all love! ;D

I have to come to Jim's defense on this one. Those chaingunners aren't placed there from the start, they start out in the RK house and sometimes (quite often, apparently) walk into the teleport and end up in the cavern if you don't kill them fairly soon after you begin running around the first courtyard. I had one playthrough where one of them teleported, and another where I killed both chaingunners while they were still inside the house.

It's another one of those scenarios which is likely an unintentional "design", like I mentioned before. Jim probably didn't care/know to use monster blocking linedefs.

[Veinen]

Map 31: The Mansion

This is basically a fun if a bit mild ride through a nice looking mansion. Slava commits to the semi-realistic mansion look all the way through and the result is pretty good. Those little details like the bathtub were kind of gimmicky but cool features nonetheless. I was disappointed that the bathtub switches weren't part of some bigger picture involving secrets though but eh, you can't always get what you want. No point in the map stands out though so it's just consistently good without any great or really bad spots. The biggest and a very glaring flaw at that is the no-escape endroom that got me too in my initial run.

Not many memorable fights either to be frank. The shotgunner crew at the start is the biggest threat in the whole map and the only place where I took even modest damage. Pistol start means you got to make a little bit of a rush for some ammo midfight if you intend to kill all of them with the ssg which is a really good design trait in my opinion. The other potentially dangerous spot is the ambush in the library but it's not really saying much. There's also that one room filled with a mixture of baddies including an archvile but they all teleported to an another room where they were easily killed. Perhaps those monsters would still teleport into the same room should the player be unlucky enough to aggro them while in there? That would probably make things interesting. Despite being so easy, I enjoyed this map quite much. Very relaxing and moderately fun little sightseeing around this invaded mansion.

Almost-FDA. Like I said, my initial playthrough ended in the dark chamber without the red key and since that was pretty much the first door I tried, I omitted that part from the demo. Other than that, no deaths and 100% kills with 8/9 secrets found. Didn't figure out to how to get to the secret exit so went for the normal.

Map 32: Nowhere To Hide

An arena with some monsters fighting against each other and plenty of health and ammo to go around. That's pretty much it for this map. Could be much more exciting and fun if the monster count was tripled but like this it's just a breather and fitting for a super secret level. Here's a very sloppy FDA. Includes an amusing first ever run in which I don't know where all the weapons are. Made it to the keens though but killing them with the pistol under heavy crossfire proved to be difficult.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 16 -- The Wolf's Hour - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets
This outing reminded me in many ways of map 10, with its dirty wasteland aesthetic and its dark tunnel section following after a yard full of zombies. Bearing in mind that it's a Bagrow map, the most notable thing about it is probably that it's a lot more reasonable and 'normal' in setup than his other maps, with far fewer violations of general standards of gameplay/construction etiquette that have developed through the years of WADmaking.

Aesthetically, it conspicuously lacks the schizophrenic texture selection of Bagrow's previous efforts. Apart from a single somewhat asynchronous limestone column in the main yard, each structure is painted in a texture reasonably suited to its ostensible function. While each of the three major areas has its own distinct texture theme--dirt/metal/harmless nukage for the main yard, gray cement for the drainage tunnels, and blackened stone for the later cavernous area--these different areas gel fairly well together as far as creating a sense of place goes (helped along in particular by the very natural transition from the first to the second), which does indeed suggest this was made either by a more practiced Bagrow, or perhaps simply as an experiment or even a happy accident.

How does it play? Well, for my part, I found it rather dull. The best part is the opening shootout, which can be tackled in a number of ways. From a pistol-start, I chose to play it somewhat conservatively this time, opting to hold out in the small starting alcove against the approaching horde of undead. This is quite doable as long as you regularly swing from one side of the opening to the other, and save the eight shells the initial shotgun comes with for sergeants that start getting close. The main benefit of this strategy is that you're too distant for the chaingunners on platforms to hit efficiently, and indeed, they'll often hit the hovering cacos instead, diverting their attention. It's downhill from here, though...the arch-vile isn't unreasonably placed, but he's much faster than his Baron bodyguards over open ground, making them ineffective as meatshields, and there was plenty of cover and essentially no corpses nearby for him to resurrect, given the strategy I'd employed for the initial battle. The tunnels are about as makework as one would expect--they work alright on the atmospheric front, but not so much on the gameplay front. The final cavern is more basic cleanup (only one of the chaingunners teleported in here for me), and then there's the ridiculous anticlimax of the imp 'trap' at the exit. Anticlimax is one of my pet peeves, so the map lost some more points with me, here....save this shit for jokemaps!

While it's easy to appreciate the more coherent construction and lack of baldfaced metagamery that parts of previous Bagrow maps displayed, I reckon I miss the bloodiness of those maps here, as well. I suspect I'll remember this mainly for being 'the Bagrow map that isn't like the others' rather than for any scenario it actually contains, if you see what I mean. I'd say it's better on the whole than map 14 was, but, yet again, if I'm honest, I liked map 04 more.

[Steve D]

Kristian Ronge said:

I have to come to Jim's defense on this one. Those chaingunners aren't placed there from the start, they start out in the RK house and sometimes (quite often, apparently) walk into the teleport and end up in the cavern if you don't kill them fairly soon after you begin running around the first courtyard.

Nice catch, Kristian. I remember hearing something teleport when I was on the Pestov Platform, and I thought I was about to get attacked, but nothing happened. I couldn't figure it out.

Natch, you don't have to defend Jim from me, because I liked it! :)

[Steve D]

Demon of the Well said:

While it's easy to appreciate the more coherent construction and lack of baldfaced metagamery that parts of previous Bagrow maps displayed, I reckon I miss the bloodiness of those maps here, as well. I suspect I'll remember this mainly for being 'the Bagrow map that isn't like the others' rather than for any scenario it actually contains, if you see what I mean. I'd say it's better on the whole than map 14 was, but, yet again, if I'm honest, I liked map 04 more.

We agree once again, DoTW. Here I am, Bagrow's Bitch, and I didn't get killed once in his map. That's unheard of! And I even went kamikaze at the start. And I will always go kamikaze at the start of that map.

All things considered, I think Map04 was the most fun Bagrow map, and just imagine how much more agonizing it could have been if he'd added two more monster closets as you went to the exit in the red door room, one biggie ahead of you, and one opening to your right. That would have allowed the one trap he did put in, pointlessly placed to your left and soon behind you, to have its monsters sneak up on you while you were engaged with the ones in front. What a fight that would have been!

Oh, well . . .

[purist]

I might tap out at this point (MAP15). I don't like the metal room with the switches. The area gave me the impression you needed to hit the switches and just escape because of all the crossfire and lack of cover but this just made the situation worse.

Up to this point I was mixed about MAP15. Some of the fights worked kind of well and I liked how there's a few surprise parties after you work your way back from collecting the blue key but the huge circle metal area and big grassy wooden area are both terribly designed and just big for the sake of scale and the fight against PE's from behind the LS proof midgrate was only so bad-it's-good good.

If I have chance to have a Doom blast I might catch up yet.

[Kristian Ronge]

Map 17 -- No Escape
A base map with a simple layout. It's very violent, as I've come to expect from Antoni, and contains a few delightful traps, especially the RL trap and the YK trap. While the fighting is generally good, it contains some odd bits: what's up with the "Run!" room? (I didn't run but rather stayed outside of the room and patiently mowed down the monsters with the chaingun.) What's up with the Cyberdemon in the garden? The two adjoining secrets make little sense, too, they almost punish you by giving you an invisibility and then dropping you off at a Cyberdemon with nothing stronger than a RL (with a handful of rockets), if even that. I also didn't like the pitch black maze part.

When playing from scratch, the first bit, up until getting the blue armour at the BK could be pretty challenging -- that it, unless you find the super obvious secret in the starting room casually handing out a megasphere, the SSG and a backpack. I counted three(!) megaspheres and one blue armour in this map, plus various medikits, and looking at the map again, I even missed an additional soulsphere and green armour in the Arachno/Baron pillar room. That's just too easy, in spite of a multitude of bigger monsters, because you're very rarely placed in precarious spots (the YK trap being one exception).

I would've preferred being able to use the stronger weapons and being given less health. Here, Antoni gives you all the health in the world but forces you to take on the various heavy-hitters, and the Cyber, with the shotgun(s) and chaingun. Not quite as challenging, and not quite as fun as it could have been. All in all, an okay map. --3/5

[dobu gabu maru]

Interesting to know about the chaingunners on Wolf's Hour. You guys preferring MAP04 to these other maps I think I can kind of understand—it's like preferring an experimental album to a more refined work. However instead of liking Ummagumma over Dark Side, it's more akin to liking St. Anger over Reload ;)

MAP17: Another ball-buster pistol start unless you take the ever-so-helpful secret with a megasphere and SSG. Chan packs the central hub tight with nasties, making it a really rough go-around until you can catch your breath. Sadly, this is all I wrote before I went to sleep, so the rest of the map is neurologic vapor in my head. I noclipped around it and the only other thoughts I have are: the AV fight was kinda fun, the dark area with hitscanners everywhere ironically rewards you for not running, and why do so many early mappers love making spirals?

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP17 No Escape

With the markings of a prison, and the fact that Antoni expects me to not escape, I decided to prove that title wrong.

If anything, Chan's latest offering was made especially for continuous play, as it can be quite a challenge from pistol start as the others before me noted. Even with the secret supply depot at the beginning the central hub area could be problematic. Instead of rush to do certain things like Hitherto did, I simply cleaned out the hub before going through the first door. However, with abundance of supplies later on, including the spheres, medikits, and armor, it turned out the level was easier than ever.

Getting the blue key: For the most part, wasn't too hard. Mostly SSG action. Two things: 1. Why were the two chaingunners in the RL room behind a red door infighting? 2. What's with the random bullshit cyberdemon placement? That cyber was outside, and could take potshots if he wanted to. There's two secrets both with blur artifacts which I didn't grab. One secret I could take right off the bat by jumping out the window from where the blue key was, the other I had to get the RK first. Either way, cybie was really not hard as he was unable to go from the back of the courtyard. Very questionable placement, I'd say.

Behind blue door: I remember this. I actually ran in accordance to the RUN on the floor. This time I simply blew the hitscanners away, then punched the enemies in the brown area to get my light visor then enter the teleport. This area is congested but manageable, and I get my red key soon after a rather annoying spiral climb.

Northeast and ending: Interesting spiral here with various monsters, pretty easy. The hub area now has, among other things, an archvile and some HK's, nothing to fear with a BFG from other levels. Exit trap was also managed easy. Overall, a nice level with a good hub area, and quite a lot of supplies. There is a rather random cyberdemon outside who seems to be at a disadvantage, thus making the map suffer a tad. But it's one of the levels that I can enjoy out of RoC without too much complaint. Final Time 5:22.

Up next, video killed the radio star! A double threat from SteveD tomorrow and the next!

[elic]

Hey, this month I'm finally rejoining the mega wad club after a year long hiatus.

Not sure what to expect with this megawad, though I'm guessing it'll just be a weaker version of Memento Mori but without any awesome Mark Klem music.

Map01: This one was pretty solid. Nothing stuck at as particularly bad, but nothing really was particularly good either. There were enough interesting rooms to keep things from being forgettable, such as the area with all the rising platforms near the end.

Map02: Another okay map that neither amazes or offends. A lot wads with this attribute usually suffer from their maps being monotonous and feeling all like the same thing, but fortunately this project doesn't seem to be suffering from that - this level makes itself memorable with its circular layout. Really not much to comment on here.


Map03: The central hallway in this one is the coolest thing I've seen in this wad so far with its nice lighting effects and creative architecture. Also the fights at the beginning served as a series of fun frantic surprises. When I first went through this area I was expecting this map to be a nice change of pace from the previous 94ish two, but unfortunately the rest turned out to be a forgettable mess of random textures and crappy monster placement. Bleh.

Map04: I'm not in the mood to recount the horrid memories that this abomination has implanted in my head, though guess there isn't much to say that hasn't been said.

Guess my prediction was correct. Maps 1 and 2 were about the same level of quality as their MM counterparts, but Map03 isn't nearly as fun as Tom Mustaine's excellent mini techbase, and don't feel it's even worth comparing Map04 to first of Jens Nielsen's MM masterpieces.

[Alfonzo]

The second leg of Where's All The Data?'s Realm of Chaos streamthrough has arrived, and another chapter in an extraordinarily mediocre megawad draws to a close. I'm amazed we mustered the strength to plough on through this mess of a mapset... although there are some highlights!

Part 2a: http://www.twitch.tv/st_alfonzo/c/2586975 (Map16 - 20)

[Steve D]

st.alfonzo said:

The second leg of Where's All The Data?'s Realm of Chaos streamthrough has arrived, and another chapter in an extraordinarily mediocre megawad draws to a close. I'm amazed we mustered the strength to plough on through this mess of a mapset... although there are some highlights!

Part 2a: http://www.twitch.tv/st_alfonzo/c/2586975 (Map16 - 20)

Thank you very much, guys! Everyone was in fine form and the hilarity was much appreciated. Changes will be made in my maps based on your comments. Map18 has already been re-lit, but I'm making some changes in progression, too, so it isn't as confusing and obtuse as it is now.

The vertically-tiled Firemag2 in Map19's boiler room will be dealt with also. Many more changes will be made, including a rise in those windowsills to at least 26 units.

And thanks for having Tarnsman's volume back to normal. I didn't get my Tarnsman fix last time, this time I did.

And alfonzo, I enjoyed watching you die again and again in Map18. This was deeply satisfying to me. ;D

Looking forward to the next.

[Jayextee]

MAP 17 - NO ESCAPE
Antoni Chan

A central nexus of coloured key-doors is the crux of this one, with separate sections being themed somewhat.

One is a short trip into PIPE territory, with chaingunners and imps; there's a neat Cyberdemon in the distance that snipes at you, but this didn't seem like a threat, or killable. Then there's a really cool pitch-black section that instructs you to RUN, but fighting was the better idea because there's a Megasphere in it for me, which I took -- and pretty much guaranteed my safety for the rest of the level. I can tell it was supposed to be a set-piece as it was pretty much bracketed with berserk packs for a 100-health reset at the beginning and end. There's not much else after that, some spiral pathway to a switch which lowers the nexus' inner structure and gives me an Archvile/Hellknight fight that I can handle, then a small mancubus battle and a non-marked exit lift finale.

Dull dull dull, except for the RUN bit, which was kinda nicely executed even if a bit flawed.