The DWmegawad Club plays: Back to Saturn X E1 & Favillesco E1

[cannonball]

MAP05 - “Total Exposure” by Pavera
hmm well mixed feelings about this.
If you are going to give me a cyber, give me a threat and for goodness sake make sure you can't break the fight, like add monster block lines!!!
EDIT ignore above sentence (idiot alert)
Poor cybie, I left him dangling over the edge, powerless to give me a fight, I took pity on him and left.
Add to that, death by a floor lamp, unlucky revenant rockets and rng, not to mention spiders taking 6 ssg shots to kill at close range kind of enraged me.
There is some neat stuff in here, mostly around the red key area, monsters carry a threat and encourage you to push on. But the rest just felt like there were simple camping methods to solve certain areas and too much advantage to the player. Arch vile placement in this map was pretty good I thought.
I guess in the end the map felt like a lets put some top tier monsters in here, but make it as easy as possible, I would rather have preferred refraining from chucking a cyber and put some lower tier monsters which overall had a higher threat value.
Edit - like Capellan said, the layout is very good here, one of the strong points of this mapset so far has been the easy to navigate layouts with good interconnectivity.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 03 -- The Room Taking Shape - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets
I quite liked this map. It's smaller/quicker than the others thus far, and while I normally prefer a more meal-sized helping, there's enough sense of energy and violence here that it's still satisfying, although it's certainly a one-fight sort of map.

It's also more abstract than the first two, and it takes some imagination to assign it some kind of kayfab function (and there's nothing wrong with that); given that the vague theme of Cluster 1 seems to be processing/shipping/logistics (yes, I know I'm reaching, here), I imagined it to be some kind of inspection/decon site (mainly because of the shutters in the yellow key area). It's very colorful, like map 01, and I found the forest green aspect of the earlier parts, as well as the broadly bending shape of many of the throughways, to be rather pleasing.

What makes the whole thing, though, is the yellow key fight. Whether you're a cautious, methodical player who carefully eliminates every active monster the moment it becomes available as a target, or a self-destructive dervish who dashes into the fray with more bravado than an actual plan, the series of monster closets, monster teleports, and environmental hazards that mine the sweeping stairs here will give you a good workout and make you feel like you earned that shiny new keycard. The presence of the BFG here is a bit....odd, to say the least, and probably trivializes several later challenges on a continuous playthrough, although actually putting it to efficient use here where it appears takes some forethought. It's different, I'll give it that. Come to think of it, this is also the third map in a row with an oddly-placed chainsaw of dubious usefulness. Some kind of in-joke, perhaps?

Recording a demo for this map also reminded me of why I prefer playing without infinitely-tall actors. Here, corpse decorations, infinitely-tall cacos, and other things greatly hamper some of the fun stunts that the map's vertical nature so warmly invites the player to do. During the first part of the Where's All the Data stream, one of the commentators (I believe it was Pavera) remarked that he felt some of the BTSX maps, while being vanilla-targeted, do seem to overlook this logistical inconvenience of original engine behavior to some degree, and from what I've seen of the maps thus far, I reckon I agree he's right. Really, this is kind of a hollow complaint, though--I'd much rather play open, vertical, fluid maps that facilitate monster movement and invite the player to make dashing leaps in a sourceport with this old limit disabled than flatter, lightly-populated, more reigned-in maps that exercise restraint in these areas simply in order to fully preclude one of the logistical inconveniences of the target platform.

I'd also like to take the time to say that I felt the BGM in this map was fan-fucking-tastic. This sort of mellifluous, travel-montage-in-an-adventure-flick tune is quite to my taste in DooM MIDI (although probably wouldn't suit me anywhere else); easy to tell from listening to a few seconds of it that it's by Stewboy, whose work I almost always enjoy. While this track is the standout thus far, I've found the music thus far to be quite enjoyable, the general trend of mid-paced numbers that take a little time to develop fully (especially in the string department) fitting well with the 'melancholy techbase' theme that BTSX has going on so far. The space-disco-into-synth-choir deal that the intermission track pulls seems a bit dicier, but maybe it'll grow on me as I hear it more.

To close: good, small map! I did encounter a visual glitch on the ceiling of one part of the crusher walkway. It's visible in the demo, not long after I get the BFG.

On that point: UV-max demos (PrBooM+ Cl2) for the first three maps are found below, just because I felt like making some. I'm no speedrunner; I just aimed to make them somewhat entertaining.

Back to Saturn X Radio Report
Postal Blowfish
The Room Taking Shape

[Jayextee]

MAP05 - TOTAL EXPOSURE

Well, I'm not let down by the title in that this has a lot of outdoor areas; and in general I liked them. Although it's more than possible in most cases to bottleneck encounters from an earlier area, there are a couple that stand out; namely the red key area with the surrounding Arachnotrons that wittled my health down to embarrassing amounts, and the Archvile in the gang of Hellknights as the Cyberdemon watches -- this latter one is responsible for my first and second deaths of BTSX so far; mainly because I was 'saving' cell ammo for the Cyberdemon who I didn't need to defeat in the end.

Not a lot to say, I did like this one but the secret area confused me. As in, why was it marked 'secret'? Either way, a very neat map.

[j4rio]

cannonball said:

MAP05 - If you are going to give me a cyber, give me a threat and for goddness sake make sure you can't break the fight, like add monster block lines!!!

Use -cl 2 next time. :p

[Tarnsman]

Jayextee said:

As in, why was it marked 'secret'?

Because there needs to be at least 1 secret so 100% secrets is possible and it's technically possible to miss it so it was marked secret instead of just shoehorning in a closet somewhere.

As for the complaint about the ability to camp. Just don't do that if you want to be more aggressive. The map shouldn't have to force you to play a way you want to.

[Jayextee]

Tarnsman said:

As for the complaint about the ability to camp. Just don't do that if you want to be more aggressive. The map shouldn't have to force you to play a way you want to.

My second and third playthrough, I did actually tackle the caco-and-demon bridge area a bit more gung-ho and circled the bunch of them with SSG. Felt good, man.

Though if a map is designed in a way that doesn't actively deter the player from playing incredibly safely, I'm not going to feel like a fight had any real threat even if I did carelessly get stuck in.

[cannonball]

j4rio said:

Use -cl 2 next time. :p

heh got to love pr-boom. Too lazy to start the wad through the command prompt. Might do that from now on.
Edited my post to express my ignorance.

[Capellan]

Tarnsman said:

As for the complaint about the ability to camp. Just don't do that if you want to be more aggressive. The map shouldn't have to force you to play a way you want to.

A map should force you to make choices. This one doesn't. It lets you dictate encounters very easily. Personally, I'm quite happy to camp my way through a map if the designer doesn't give me reason not to, but unless that was the author's intent, this is a flaw in their design.

If it was their intent, well, they succeeded. But it seems a strange goal.

[Jayextee]

I think Capellan said it better than I.

It's the "it's in the game!" logic; borrowed from a fighting game article I read once on perceived 'cheapness' -- if a tool is in a game (or in this case, a user-made map) it is reasonable to expect it to be used. If use of the tool (which in this context, is the ability to take easy cover and snipe at what would otherwise be a challenging encounter) lessens the impact of the experience, then I make the value judgement that it isn't as good as it could be; it does not reach its full potential.

A lot of BTSX feels that way so far. I will reiterate that I'm expecting this to be a slow-burner and hopefully my expectations will be met down the line. But it still has blunt teeth.

[dew]

Capellan said:

A map should force you to make choices. This one doesn't. It lets you dictate encounters very easily. Personally, I'm quite happy to camp my way through a map if the designer doesn't give me reason not to, but unless that was the author's intent, this is a flaw in their design.

i do apologize for this ad hominem attack, but your cchest4 map is a pretty terrible offender in this regard. ;) the base promotes corner/door camping and the final area promotes hanging on the other side of The Funnel Hallway and hammering whatever finds its way into it. with the kind help of the arachnotron shooting his friends in the back. maxrunners abuse your design to the next level - they run through the whole base to wake everything up, then return to start to clear the perimeter, by which time the entire base's population is neatly packed in the narrow entrance/courtyard.

the "easy" solution is, of course, to lock the player in an arena every time you're afraid he might exploit his bit of free space. tbh i'm quite sick of this approach, because it's omnipresent in nowadays mapping and the more it's used, the more it breaks immersion. i get reminded to save and switch to plasma immediatelly after the barrier goes up, because it's not the monsters who will threaten me, it's Whatshisname "Mapper" Someguy and i need to beat his scripted little thingy here that took away my choices. even btsx has a hefty share of these fights (skillsaw's on board, after all), so adding more is something i'd protest, even if it means occasionally allowing lazy or scaredy players to treat themselves with a little CoD-like corridor spam from behind a crate.

the critique has a chunk of truth in it, though. i think i have a good compromise solution for this particular case without resorting to shutters and barriers or ramping up difficulty too much. it's just map05 and the first cyb encounter, after all. i'll pitch it to pavs when i get back from work. yeah, i'm slacking on the forums, shame on me, haha.

[cannonball]

I think we can get away from the black and white scenario here, you don't always have to put a brick wall to prevent someone from escaping, increase the number of angles of attack, this will pressurise the player more.
I personally do try to play aggressively, I especially did so on map04 in the open area where I skipped monsters and unleashed everything before blasting the resistance with the rocket launcher.
The cyber here was just to easy to avoid, you didn't have to resort to backing everything up a corridor, just clear one of the corners, get a little infighting and that's done. The cyber is just boring to kill in my opinion. Like a couple of others had said I would have rather have had the plasma gun (even if it's only in a secret) to blow him away a lot quicker.
The bit after the cyber I did corridor shoot, but only after being killed because the aggressive approach is ruined by poorly placed floorlamps which I got suck on and took a 80 damage revenant missile to the back.

[Tarnsman]

There are more ways to do it than locking the player in, heck on UV Total Exposure has an archvile that will blast you if you try and hide down the hall because there is no cover from the vile, which encourages the player to move forward in to the cyber arena without forcing a wall behind them.

[mouldy]

MAP05 - “Total Exposure” by Pavera

demo

That demo is my second attempt after dying at the cyberdemon bit, so it is a bit reckless. It is a good map for playing recklessly though, there is lots of health and space to run around in. This is a memorable map mainly because it has a couple of bastard moments. The first part of the map is fairly straightforward and you almost feel like the monsters are playing at a disadvantage as you dance around them, blowing up barrels in their faces and picking them off from a safe distance. Then you meet the cyber and shit gets a bit nasty, and suddenly all that open space is a curse as you try to find cover from an archvile and rev homing missiles while dodging rockets. The second archvile nearly finished me off, creeping up behind me like a ninja. Good fun.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP05 Total Exposure

Good Map! First thing I hear was a cyberdemon on the way so I know there'd be somethin' interesting. Really was quite open in places as the title says, but not too bad combat either. I liked the barrel placement, real fun to shoot them when the monsters come near. Lotsa monsters on railings and perches though, and you go on those eventually so most of the enemies are dead by that time. Most fights were easily handled due to the amount of space, no trouble overall. Right side is pretty easy, there's even a very easy secret. Got surprised by teleporing arachnotrons at one point, I ran past them and had two chaingunners kill one of them for fun. The cyber was, actually not bad, with revenants and hellknights which can be used as fodder. Bad part is you can easily skip him entirely if you desire, I decided to get blue key before finally coming back to smash him. I'd say this map was my first real favorite overall. Final Time 6:35.

[pavera]

Feedback on map. Main. System. Shutting. Down!

But, really! Great to finally read some actual community reactions to it! I realize that there are areas in this map that may 'encourage' cheesing battles and camping, but it's honestly not even occurred to me until now. I think that's mostly because while designing it, the playtesters and I all kinda approached it in a similar way (as in, aggressively actioning our way through the level), which was the approach I had in mind during design. But it seems that dew has some proposals up his sleeve to counter some of the unintended cheesiness, and I'll listen to them wholeheartedly!

The idea behind the cyber was that he actually provides a small to mid level amount of threat while the player makes his way around the area to unlock the exit. I figured that since this was only MAP05, I should make it that the cyber is essentially an 'optional' fight if the player would rather continue running and dodging rather than dispatching big baddies quite yet.

[Jayextee]

Pavera said:

The idea behind the cyber was that he actually provides a small to mid level amount of threat while the player makes his way around the area to unlock the exit. I figured that since this was only MAP05, I should make it that the cyber is essentially an 'optional' fight if the player would rather continue running and dodging rather than dispatching big baddies quite yet.

You know, I like this approach. It's kinda like the 'teasing' I like to do/see in a mapset, but at the same time not.

A taste of things to come? :)

[NuMetalManiak]

That is a good approach, I agree. I particularly liked how firing a shot in the beginning actually awakens the cyberdemon, which would prompt an "oh shit a cyberdemon!" response from a player like myself. Only then will I realize that he's not too much a threat after all :p.

[dew]

Playtester's War Journal, day02: Postal Blowfish (Torn, esselfortium)

YouTube: UV SoloNet Max in 6:01

Torn's layout is one of the oldest pieces in the set. Torn was actually "out" of the team (by idling into nonexistence) before I was even invited on board. Essel then finished and redetailed the map several times. A big decision that saved this map gamplay-wise was to axe the SSG and boost the RL spam. Reading the reactions in this thread I'm glad that paid off, heh. The (now) optional RL room at the beginning and the secret duct area connecting various areas managed to add some nice faux-nonlinearity and let's say "substance".

My favourite moment is the drop on the big elevator and the following fight, of course. It's simple and fairly nonthreatening, but blasting that pack of monsters to charred chunks of carcinogenous meat is fun. The final fight is pretty lame, yeah. We tried to spice it up with the teleporter line and the coop vile, but it seems it still needs toughening up despite occupying a very early map slot. Speaking of coop, I've added non-deaf monsters to essel's/Torn's deaf guys for more venom. Their earlier attacks work especially well for the vile pair behind the spiders and give their meatshield buddies time to boot up, heh.

My demo took a surprising amount of effort and retries. Rushed start can be quite lethal, especially when you want to get the cliff monsters to infight something. I also take a quick look at two hovering ammo boxes that are a sign of my slackery. :) The rest of the map is a RL fest and a speedrunner has to make the rockets count. That led me to a rather comical interpretation of the barrel fight and some risky shots from the vents. It's a decent demo, but easily smashable by a focused speedrunner with some free time on his hands.

Fun fact: the chainsaw wasn't a secret earlier. It was tagged as such because getting it is not entirely trivial and us playtesters were wondering what was the meaning of it. Changing it into a more appropriate item never crossed our minds, haha.

[ClonedPickle]

MAP05: Total Exposure (100% K/I/S, 14:30, 112% H, 71% A)

I think this was the last map I completed before starting over and not doing continuous play, so it was fairly fresh in my mind. It was quite a different experience from pistol start. The beginning confrontations were definitely more intense without my bevy of weaponry from before, which encouraged careful barrel clustering and monster infighting to help thin the horde and to maintain my (what felt like) just barely enough ammo. Which was great, in case it didn't sound that way. By the time I hit the final area, though, I had the SSG, RL, and plenty of ammo for everying; and you made me need it. That final fight is way more intense without a plasma rifle, let me tell you (which makes it feel odd that there are at least 100 cells lying around - did I miss a non-secret plasma rifle or something?). I definitely rushed into that final room and found many, many demons wanting a piece of me while I had to manage dodging all different sorts of hellfire; rockets, homing rockets, vile asshole magic, and pinkies getting right up in my face willing to see how Good at Doom I really was. I still ended the map with 22 rockets, too, so I guess I should've blown more stuff up. The only thing I might change about this map is either no cells at all or a plasma in the exit room (beyond the giant fight room). Good stuff!

[dobu gabu maru]

Goodness this thread moves fast when there's discussions. Playing catch up.

MAP02: Torn and essel's effort is more fun than the lukewarm opener, thanks to the larger number of revenants and some fun RL usage. It may not seem "fitting" considering how many big baddies there are here at the second map, but for me I appreciate the change of pace as this provides a lot more action and chances for interesting encounters if you're rushing through it. I particularly enjoy how, while traversing the balcony to get the red key, you wind up starved for lead, pushing you to use the wide number of rockets you built up as a reminder that "hey, you should probably take advantage of this weapon instead of using it situationally". Nothing too dangerous here but at least the big number of monsters is fun to push through, and revs are harsh enough on their own.

Unfortunate ending though. Not every level needs to climax on a tough as nails fight, but three cacodemons is pretty much a gimme. Visuals are top notch as always with so many smartly placed nooks and crannies that it never pulls the eye away from the gameplay at hand but continues to be thematically flush with variation, and while I'm not feeling as passionate for this midi as the soul-gripping opener, it fit the fast-paced action of this map excellently.

I also just noticed how much work went into cleaning up the automap. Jeezuuummmss

MAP03: A relatively quick one this time with a couple of fun traps. The highlight here is the crusher section that churns out demons behind you, although finding the BFG secret does seem a bit... simple? I didn't pick it up since I think gameplay is more interesting without it, content rather that I obtained the SSG. Also, at the end, I like the use of a lone PE to occupy your attention while a chaingunner sneaks up behind you—it definitely got me.

Good visuals, stellar music, very happy with this one.

[punnyone]

Map 5 - Total Exposure - Pavera - Kills - 101% ,Items/Secrets - 100% HMPSkill

This level feels totally different from those previous. I personally consider that a good thing. Like its namesake, there's mostly wide open and not as detailed spaces as opposed to the previous levels, and it almost has a fun racetrack-like feel to it, especially the expansive outdoor area to the right. The Cyb encounter (which is foreshadowed nicely when you first fire your gun in the level) isn't too difficult (and I think this early on, that's alright), but those lanterns often got in the way of my rockets when I was aiming for the cyberdemon so I found that a bit irritating. Nice fast-paced music track as well. Health was a bit scarce at the beginning (I had 8% due to the previous level's conclusion), but since monster resistance builds in this level, I didn't die until the revenants showed up later. This was a fun one.

[esselfortium]

pizzabob18 said:

The Cyb encounter (which is foreshadowed nicely when you first fire your gun in the level) isn't too difficult (and I think this early on, that's alright), but those lanterns often got in the way of my rockets when I was aiming for the cyberdemon so I found that a bit irritating.

This is a ZDoom thing. In vanilla, decorations don't block projectiles.* In the compatibility options page, there should be something along the lines of "use original heights for missile clipping" that will make ZDoom behave as intended here.

(*Well, to be exact, in vanilla decorations only block projectiles that hit the lowest 16 units of them, since vanilla's infinitely-tall objects allowed id Software to just not bother setting accurate heights for the decorations.)

[Capellan]

dew said:
i do apologize for this ad hominem attack, but your cchest4 map is a pretty terrible offender in this regard. ;)

That's really not an ad hominem attack, since you're talking about the map, not attacking me as a person.

In any case, you definitely have a point about cchest4 map06. In my defence, I made that 4 years ago, and no-one complained about it being too camp-friendly at the time, or I might have changed things up. Much like Pavera is now experiencing.

Plus, if I were a mapper who'd never made a suboptimal decision, I would be pretty darn unique. :)

dew said:
the "easy" solution is, of course, to lock the player in an arena every time you're afraid he might exploit his bit of free space.

The easy solution is also a bad one IMO. :) Even opening monster closets behind them would be a better one than that. Better than either would be giving the monsters a couple of extra lines of attack. This doesn't have to be done in every fight: do it a couple of times (at least once early in the level) and the possibility of being flanked will always lurk in the player's mind.

Having encounters in a level where the player can use the terrain to their advantage is not automatically a bad thing (in fact it can be a good one; AV fights generally need to have cover you can exploit, for example). Having only encounters where they have the terrain advantage, and then putting them in the advantageous position without them even needing to seek it, is a bit more problematic I think.

[Tompig]

MAP05 - “Total Exposure”

Off to a bad start... its called 'Total Exposure' and I am still wearing my clothes.

Naked dooming aside we have another solid map with quite the difficulty ramp up in my opinion.

Ammo is much harder to come by and my word do the demons have a lot of fire support compared to the other maps, hitscanners roving in death squads, and rev's happily putting out some kind of hell-based iron curtain... not to mention the sudden spike in plazma shots flying around.

Music sounded kinda like Rise of the Triad or is that just me?

Enjoyed it, high body count, good looking level.

[purist]

Seele00TextOnly said:

Hi, one of BTSX's playtesters here. I just wanted to point out that if one is finding fights lacking in venom, or not hard enough, one is recommended to play at a higher difficulty or solonet. It is true that perhaps the lower difficulties could have been more challenging, but at some point it serves no purpose to continue playing on said difficulties while continuing to bemoan lack of difficulty or venom. Plans are in place, however, to tweak up the difficulty in a variety of encounters.

It feels like this is directed at least in part to my comment on the MAP03 YK trap as you've used my phrasing. HMP is working out pretty well for me overall, I think the difficulty level is pitched about right for my purposes. If I enjoy the megawad I might return and try again in UV when I have some familiarity of the levels on my side but I'm not going to raise the difficulty level for the sake of one set piece that felt like a missed opportunity for an interesting encounter in HMP.

Onwards:

04 Esselfortium: A Good Flying Bird

First death! I remember this one from before too, now that I've loaded it up. I particularly like the outdoor area that first ambushes you with a cluster of caco's (can never go wrong with this) while sneaking an archvile out. I didn't like the revs on the ledges prior to this part though, it's one of those peek-a-boo setups where you have such an angle of advantage that you will only get hurt if you get bored and take a risk.

For some reason the play through I am on rendered a huge HOM in this area, affecting the whole sky. I don't know why and I've not been able to recreate it.

The yellow key part makes great use of space which gives the architecture a real sense of 3D. The part straight after this is a bit manic though. I died here because I simply couldn't find a safe place to be. On repeat plays I found playing cautiously allows you to clear each area one at a time with only the revs on the ledge being any sort of trouble.

I liked this one, it's probably tied for favourite for me so far.


05 Pavera: Total Exposure

I think this was where I got to when I last played the beta. Back then this was my least favourite map and I thought the first half was quite badly designed. In explanation I remember Pavera saying it was designed as a racetrack type level and with this in mind I can appreciate the design process more now.

For example, whereas the sniper mancs and arachnatrons previously annoyed me I now see that they are effectively sentries, forcing me to move through the level in a pace beyond comfort zone.

I still had to cheese this area a little by retreating out and using the doorway as a chokepoint. Despite pistol starting after a death on this level there was luckily still enough ammo to take care of them and when you're not panicking it becomes apparent that I was not quite as badly outnumbered as I first thought.

Also, I don't know if I missed the RL when I first when into the area or if it's only revealed on your route back but there was times when I could have done with it and when I picked it up I took great delight in smashing that manc that had been pot-shotting me.

Once I heard the cyberdemon I chickened out of my no saves rule because, as much as I enjoyed it, I didn't feel like replaying the first part of the map if I died. I did duly die but by the hand of that stream of revs who basically couldn't miss me because I was in a wide corridor with no cover. When I reloaded the game it broke the cyber trap (must have not been able to wake him from where I was) and I rocket spammed the revs before they could do much damage.

To be honest the level could have done with finishing there. It goes on a bit longer but it kind of outlived my interest and I thought the final exchanges just felt like a formality compared to the earlier tension.

The pop up exit switch and signs at the end really made me smile for some reason :-)

[Steve D]

Map04 (Continuous) – A Good Flying Bird by esselfortium - Kills – 100, Items – 95, Secret – 100. Time 20:32. End Health 100, Armor 92. Death Count – 1

Map04 (Pistol Start) – A Good Flying Bird by esselfortium - Kills – 100, Items – 98, Secret – 100. Time 19:03. End Health 100, Armor 106. Death Count – 3

This is another “game architecture” type map, since it makes no sense otherwise. It’s also perhaps the least pretty map so far, but still looks good, and I like the Ston5gry and Bronbk24 textures very much, along with all the complimentary ones signaling a change to more bunker-like environments.

I fought the beginning differently in continuous and pistol. For continuous, I ran upstairs to kill the Chaingunner, the other little scumbags, and the Mancs through SSG corner abuse, while on pistol, I went downstairs first to get the shotgun, whereupon I camped in the alcove with the stimpacks and used shotgun corner abuse to get the Mancs above. As Capellan might say, this map encourages corner abuse and door camping, because after this, you’re presented with a long space guarded by a turreted Arachnotron standing watch over the yellow key, backed by turreted Revvies, some Sergeants on the ground, plus air support from Cacos. This was much easier to deal with on continuous, given my nice supply of rockets and bullets, plus the extra ammo from a backpack I picked in an earlier level. Still pretty easy on pistol, though.

The real fun starts when you reach the big courtyard. I’ll have to see what I can do with GZDoom’s settings, maybe check the compatability page, because you can’t hit barrels for shit unless a monster is standing almost right next to one, or you angle your weapon down. So on pistol start I had to kill everything with weapons, not one barrel death to help me out. Waaah! ;D

This area was totally fun on pistol start because I had left the turreted Revvies alive until I could grab the RL and kill them from down in the yard. My continuous play here was much more reckless, waking up all the Cacos and suffering some hits, but on pistol I did die here after unwittingly releasing the Archie early and getting roasted from behind while I tackled Imps in the secret room. D’oh! Another Dumbass Death. ;D But on continuous I suffered even worse, getting killed by a teleporting Revvie when I jumped down for the yellow key. Pretty sweet trap, I must say. BTW, I do object to the block monster lines hemming in the Imps up above the yellow key. Why? The Revvies are already blocked by a different line from leaving their posts, so why not let the Imps roam and gang up on the player?

I died again on pistol taking the lift down after the yellow door, getting hit simultaneously by 2 or 3 Revvie rockets. And it was so easy with a full stash of rockets on continuous. That area encourages aggressive play on pistol start if you’re out of rockets. It’s not really hard, you just have to run your ass off and time your charges towards the Revvies so their rockets fly over your head. On continuous, I took a lot of damage climbing the first stairs in the next area, because I ran right up, got distracted by Imps, and took a Revvie rocket in the back. Nice placement for gutting the impetuous and overconfident! ;D I had to backtrack all over the map to get my health back up after that. I was chastened and more alert for the next one at the top of the stairs.

This leaves the exit and the Archie fight. No prob on continuous, but I outsmarted myself on pistol when I noticed 3 rockets I hadn’t picked up, so I got all strategic, drew all the monsters out of the exit room before I killed them, and was gonna be Mr. Slick going in there to rocket the Archie and, nyah, it didn’t work out so well. ;D On the next try, I did it the easy way through circling the center structure and using the SSG.

For me, this was a really fun map. I don’t mind a certain amount of door camping and corner abuse. It’s a time-honored strategy, and there was enough free-flow fighting to keep my attention. Not a super-hard map, but I did die 3 times on pistol thanks to the mapper’s clever Archie and Revvie use, combined with my kamikaze stupidity. I also have to credit alfonzo’s playthrough for showing me how to get the Zerk -- as usual, after almost all the Pinkies are dead. Are we gonna have any well-timed Zerks in this mapset? ;D Big props to essel not only for a sweet map, but for the excellent Clonk track. So as far as I’m concerned, this is a pretty much ideal Map04, at least on pistol start. It’s perhaps a bit too easy on continuous, but given that the megawad is optimized for pistol, this maybe isn’t a big deal.

[esselfortium]

purist said:

For some reason the play through I am on rendered a huge HOM in this area, affecting the whole sky. I don't know why and I've not been able to recreate it.

Oh dear. I've found a whole bunch of 2-sided lines I can eliminate from the red key building and the arches (with no visual changes, via composite textures), but I'm not sure if it's really changing the seg readings much where it counts. Do you know roughly where you were standing when this happened? The most I've ever been able to find in there was some HOM in distant windows if you opened the yellow key door and then ran backwards all the way across the field before it closed.

[purist]

I was on the walkway that you access the outdoor area from the first time you go out there but I think once it had triggered the sky HOM'd wherever I was when I looked in that direction.

I saved, exited, started a new game and IDCLEV'd then rushed to the same spot but I never got the HOM. I never got it on both the earlier version of the beta and when I played the same level a few days ago.

Next time I play I'll try it again.

[j4rio]

Map 6 - played thrice, once UV twice solo-net, glb+, pistol start

Well, after relatively pleasant map 5 gameplay experience (IMO) comes map 6. The start is just fine, and the room with berzerk and bunch of monsters revealed from behind walls including av is great, also liked the revs immediately attacking player after teleporting back. But the sad thing is, that's about everything interesting to this map. 200 monsters left on monster counter and not even single bit of map is about to offer anything even slightly interesting. All that is left is a combination of draggy and for the most part predictable gameplay combined with unexceptional layout that would most likely barely be able to offer too much even if handed over empty to a gameplay specialist. There was pretty much no way to rush anyhow even if I wanted to, because there's barely enough offered free space for any sort of manevuerability as well as punishing opposition if I tried getting reckless, so all that's left is to suck it up and camp. From this post-start section, there are 3 spots worth mentioning more detailedly: The first is the one with a few avs getting revival-happy in a bunch of corpses, which just didn't do anything for me and ended up as another camping practise, missed opportunity for somewhat interesting encounter. The second is moment when just few inches behind you opens up closets and tiny hallway seemingly for camping off arachs far off suddenly gets filled with specters and av. Are you serious? After forcing me to camp away a good chunk of map, you suddenly want to punish me for doing so? Unstrategical and completely dickish, and fuck you. The last one was the very last encounter, which was half-decent, but with all that area out there could have been made more interesting as well. Overall, meh, worst of bunch so far. This sort of gameplay belongs to cchest1, or something, not a 2013 release.

I can keep posting demos as I'm recording pretty much every step, but only as long as somebody finds it of at least slight bit of interest.

[Veinen]

Map05: Total Exposure --- 101% kills/100% secrets

UV solonet -demo in 13:28

This wad just keeps getting better and better! I really liked this map and in particular a few of the battles in the middle parts of the map. The start is easy and fun, some strategically placed barrels make the disposal of hostiles that much more satisfying. The bridge that comes next would be one of those great fights in this map. On UV it's good enough with one Arach standing guard in the middle but on solonet there are two of them which makes things a bit more complicated for aggressive players. My strategy of choice here was to rush for the RL and work my way to the ssg from there. In my demo I try to look for an opening between the two Arachs to run through so I wouldn't have to clear the yard without the ssg but to no avail. The ssg room itself is pretty neat as well, a good combo of demons and hitscanners on higher ground keeps the players feet moving.

The red key yard is an another piece of good design. At first I tackled the area rather cowardly as I made these short raids to the yard and tried to get rid of the Chaingunners on the corner ledge. After a while I said fuck it and made a run for the key, and it actually worked out pretty nicely. The Cyber area is alright overall although I agree that like this the Cyber is very tedious to kill and adding a plasma rifle somewhere would probably be a good idea. The second Archie in this area is indeed a ninja, as in my initial playthrough the Archie sneaked up on me which caused me to inadvertently rocket myself to death on an approaching demon. Similar skills are actually presented on the demo above too, but this time it was just a wall in front of me that met on of my rockets. I missed one monster that apparently didn't teleport in. Don't know if I simply missed some teleport line or if it was just an unlucky occurrence.

I'll watch your demos if you post them, j4rio.