The DWmegawad Club plays: Vile Flesh

[Demon of the Well]

Map 21 -- Flesh Mill - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets
Certainly one of the best maps in Vile Flesh, this, and possibly my personal favorite (although there are a couple left in the WAD that might give it some competition). While the preceding intermission text makes it unclear just what's going on (weird how the E3 intermission seems to be the most fragmentary in so many WADs), the change in sky texture plus some of the settings in the coming maps have always lead me to believe that the marine has left Hell and returned to Earth for the final episode, although the invading demons have had an impact on the place in more ways than one.

This introduction to the final episode takes place in a huge meat-packing plant of sooty industrial metal and dingy composite that has lately taken to handling product a mite 'higher up the food-chain' than what your Hormels and Tysons and the like typically trade in. If some of the coming urban maps seem suspiciously light on the remains of the city's former residents, just remember what you'll see here by way of explanation; indeed, productivity has been so high recently that the fields around the facility have been rendered into a vast marsh of blood. gizzards, and sinovial fluids by the plant's outflow pipes. It's a wonderfully compelling setting, I think, and does a good job of proving that you don't necessarily need redrock and lava to make something seem grim or outré enough to belong in the last part of the game. In actual fact, some of the corridors here are amongst the blandest in the WAD in terms of decor, but the return of sharp lighting, the alternation between interior and exterior areas, and most of all the periodic unveiling of the horrors of various parts of the processing line combine to create a real sense of place; certainly an example of a map whose aesthetic impact is greater than the sum of its parts.

As to the action, it's worth considering that the map has a monster count of 319, one of the highest in Vile Flesh (I believe there are only 2-3 maps that top this in the WAD). Given the vast expanse of the plant and the dwarfing size of some of its rooms, this still means that only relatively small numbers of monsters are usually being dealt with during incidental combat, but the extra demonic muscle lends more weight to several of the setpieces--e.g. the two-part assault that taking the blue skull key near the end of the map initiates--than most anything else in VF has fielded thus far, and the play certainly benefits as a result; while it's still far from a difficult map, it certainly feels like the ante has been upped. No real ammo issues this time, and as vdgg says none of the weapons are found in secrets this time around, so it seems that Williams wanted to emphasize fighting and killing more than exploration this time. The SSG probably comes later in the map than many players will appreciate, but you do get a pretty good amount of quality time with the rocket launcher to compensate. Additionally, a pretty decent number of flying monsters are used here, and they certainly help the battles feel more well-rounded....up to this point, I'd say the scarcity of cacos and the like is one of VF's greatest weaknesses, doubly baffling considering that so many of the previous maps would've been excellent habitats for them.

This map really works for me. No wonder it's been the one foremost in my mind while I was meaning to revisit VF all of these years.

[plums]

18: Straightforward enough, I liked it. Fun secrets. Some plain texturing. Anyone who didn't get the Plasma Rifle needs to look more at their automap :P

19: Not bad, doesn't seem so hell-like though. Again with a lot of plain texturing. Missed most of the secrets. Long corridor with the Mancs and Arachnotrons was a good fight. Spiderdemon seemed like it was mostly to jab you a bit while you were fighting in the preceding room. We're into recycled music unfortunately, not that it's bad music.

20: Weird layout on this level. Made me surprised when I was finished, I thought there was going to be more to it, partly because of that weird blue key stuff. The end fight was all right, not too crazy about the rest.

21: Strange layout again, but I liked this better than the last. Fairly epic-looking set pieces and some interesting secrets. The last fight was a nice change, though made quite easy with the invulnerability secret.

[Demon of the Well]

Keep on truckin'....

Map 22 -- Ungod - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets
Alright, I've really got no idea what the hell this is supposed to be. A techbase done entirely in shower-room tile as a result of a budget snafu? Some kind of art-deco toxin refining plant? Part of a damaged/flooded subway station? Ultimately, I decided it was an old water treatment facility that the demons have made a nest in, the map's title referring to the sacrificial grounds where the adventure ends. Anyway, the point is, it's pretty weird-looking, with a ton of that green/white tiling juxtaposed with a lot of toxin and crapton of iron lifts and face-switches.

I was tempted to say that I remembered this map, but the truth is I really only remembered it for its strange looks, not for its progression or gameplay. I actually really like the main texture, so it's alright with me, although I wish there was more in the way of light variation. Plenty of height variation, though, and even though the whole is still rather boxy/orthogonal I feel like it's a pretty interesting layout, mostly by dint of how dynamic it is--toxin drains, ceilings rise, cylinders descend, all kinds of closets fly open at various points, and there are lifts galore, including the strange silver tangle of them mentioned earlier by other players. The price of all of this dynamism is that it's a switch-crazy entry even by the markedly switch-driven standards of VF as a whole, but I don't mind so much. Gives the map some extra character.

As for the action, there are quite a lot of monsters around, but many of them are smallfry; there's a marked shift away from the heavier monsters that characterized the last couple of maps (although it still has its share of revs and nobles). A lot of what danger is present elides from positioning that favors the monsters; in the outer nukage yards they enjoy the advantages of distance and elevation, and within Ungod's walls they tend to attack in groups and in very close quarters, popping out of closets or waiting for the marine as he descends on tiny lifts or the like. Both SSG and plasma rifle appear outside of secrets (and the secrets themselves contain no weapons), both fairly late, which means that much like map 20 it's a very shotgun/chaingun-driven affair, but given the monster composition I think it works. All that aside, it is again not a particularly difficult map; I was pretty low on ammo at one point just beyond the red door--~50 bullets and ~15 shells vs. a lot of arachs and mancs--but using some infighting allowed me to regain momentum, and I never had trouble after that, especially after snagging the berserk pack. The ante is upped near the end with 2.5 cyberdemon encounters in the span of a few minutes--I like the placement of the first one, as he lords over the area below him from his perch, and fighting him face-to-face is legitimately risky (not that that stopped me). The second one is a more traditional, mostly-for-catharsis affair, made quite nonthreatening by a combination of free invulnerability artifact and lots of running room.

It's a weird map, perhaps somewhat ungainly in its switchcraving liftlust at times, but I liked it.

[Cynical]

Admittedly, I've grown pretty tired of Vile Flesh, but with the praise that's been flowing towards map 21, I figured I'd give it a go.

Map 21:
Yeah, this was disappointing. The start can be kinda tricky; either Chainsaw the Lost Souls, or run forward for a Shotgun and piss lots of stuff off... I ultimately did the latter.

The rest of the level? Holy crap that was dull. I just played it, and I barely have anything to say about it, other than "shotguns and nobles". The blue key was a massive disappointment; I saw the setup, thought "oh, hey, an arena battle is coming, cool!"... and then saw them all teleport away when I grabbed the key. Where do they ultimately go? To a chokepoint. YAWN.

[Suitepee]

http://www.twitch.tv/johnsuitepee

Time to start up my final part of my livestream of Vile Flesh for the Club! Maps 25-30 must be slain tonight so I can put this sack of insidious body parts known as a megawad behind me! Will it remain average for me to the vilest end, or will it surprise me with some fleshed-out levels in its endgame?

Feel free to hop on my channel and find out for yourself!

[Veinen]

Map23: Return Ticket

This was a decent level again. I actually liked the more earthy looks even though it's fairly standard and unspectacular. But inoffensive is still better much better than boring. A little less switch hunting too, at least for me as the progress seemed mostly intuitive. There was a needless back and forth though (something to do with the YK I think?), which did take me a while to remember. Combat was decent fun and it did indeed seem one of the more action-packed maps so far. Still I don't remember anything in particular, other than the final area and the pit vdgg mentions, so I suppose it wasn't overly memorable in that department. And that vdgg's single Rev placement, I found him alright. Quite an asshole that bony gentleman is.

Map24: City Center

Good map. Fairly linear and I thought the progress was pretty logical throughout. That battle in the street with the Cyber and an assortment of other teleporting hellspawn was easily the highlight and a pretty great fight in itself. One of the more interesting levels looks-wise as well and a bit more details than usual to make it feel city-like. My only death in this map came about five seconds in, I think you can guess what happened :p

[Suitepee]

http://www.twitch.tv/johnsuitepee/c/3300483 = final part of my Vile Flesh coverage.

And so Vile Flesh ends with a very easy Icon of Sin map. Either that or I figured it out really quickly, but either way I laugh at the fact that a megawad that has been containing me for 30-40 minutes per map ends on a brief note. And sequel-baiting.

UAC Headquarters contained some painful traps. Fuck that double Cyberdemon trap, fuck it to hell.
Service Tunnels was alright, liked the hellscape reveal near the end. Couldn't figure out that blue key door thing though. Also it didn't seem to like give out any real shotgun ammo, but seemed to focus on giving the player chaingun ammo. Interesting.
Dimension Shift was alright also, liked the texture changes throughout the level.
Tower Block and Earth Seige were good maps for me, I liked the flow of both levels and the decent variety on offer.
Hell Revealed ended briefly. Nuff said.

Overall, Vile Flesh was painfully AVERAGE.
Gwyn Williams clearly knows some good technical tricks and level design, but also knows how to make irritating things (like the near "invisible" chaingunners in the floor, why?!?) and most of his levels were spread out with little threat yet maximum bore factor at times. For one thing good, he did one thing bad. It had a sort of "charm" that kept me going, but in all honesty I was ready to pack this in at level 26-27. Still, I've seen worse.......but I've also seen far better.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 23 -- Return Ticket - 100% Kills / 40% Secrets
It seems that I have very little recollection of this one. Up until the large courtyard with the mastermind duo, everything here was tantamount to a blind run for me, perhaps explaining my somewhat lackluster performance in the secret department this time. Or, maybe it's simply that I was led onwards by the presence of monsters a little more insistently than in most earlier maps....this does seem like it's supposed to be a map that emphasizes combat and arenas (of sorts).

The setting again is rather vague, although more identifiably 'earthly' and not nearly as strange-looking as Ungod before it--this time it appears to be some sort of old fortress (there always seems to be one of these looming on the outskirts of most major cities in DooM, doesn't there?) comprising a series of unpaved open yards enclosed by many towering walls of heavy grey brick. The place has a certain air of disuse about it, with minimal presence of operating tech fixtures, and some of the yards are filled either with standing water or with bunches of sector hillocks. Actual demonic influence is fairly light, however, apart from some marble face-slabs and a handful of strange 'flesh watchtowers.' All told it's not very flashy, and again could've done with more light effects. I'd say it's one of the blander levels in terms of pure decor, but is not openly unappealing to the eye simply because its spaciousness and scale take up some of the slack. Sort of reminds me of something from Hell Revealed, really, although of course the map doesn't play anything like that.

Either by design or because I missed a lot of secrets, I again completed this map without the SSG or either plasma weapon, although I made regular use of the rocket launcher, given the steady supply of ammo Williams provided for it. The heterogeneous monster composition once again invites frequent use of infighting as a method of thinning the enemy ranks, as well. Combined with the map's re-emphasis on heavier monsters, the overall effect is that this felt more similar to Demon Seed (map 20) than to anything else; though there are even more monsters here than in Demon Seed, there's also even more running room as well, so the overall challenge level is about the same despite the greater opposition. What differentiates the two is that Return Ticket contains more in the way of purpose-built setpiece battles, and also quite a bit more in the way of ledge/tower snipers. The former is a welcome addition, as scenarios like the tower/teleporter pit setup or the twice-used mastermind area add a much-needed touch of excess violence in a WAD that has generally been very deliberate and restrained in its combat; the latter is less so, as while the ammo balance seems quite adequate for killing all of the opposition in the absence of secrets, taking out these snipers in a timely fashion requires the use of rockets, which cuts down on the amount of them you can use vs. more direct threats, which sees the basic shotgun getting a mite overworked at points, although the many infighting opportunities mitigate this somewhat.

It's not bad, but feels a little flat and underdeveloped in some ways, perhaps because it does seem like it's really supposed to emphasize heavy combat over setting and exploration...and that is simply not one of the WAD's specialties.

Map 24 -- City Center - 99% Kills / 100% Secrets
Having passed through the outskirts, the marine has finally entered the city proper and begins to make his way towards UAC corporate headquarters, apparently one of the demons' first targets upon gaining control of the new slipgate technology, and now the greatest concentration of their forces on Earth. As one might expect, this feels somewhat like a spiritual successor to map 15/Village (same music track, even), although it's grander in scope and features a more standard implementation of the three keys, and is thus ultimately more straightforward.

In comparison to so many of the maps in E2 and the first part of E3, the aesthetic angle taken here is far more representationalist. While conceiving of just what settings like The Pillars or Ungod might be is largely up to individual interpretation, this is very obviously a human city, and has all of the trappings of such: a backdrop of tall buildings, paved streets with sidewalks, and buildings with identifiable functions--an apartment complex, an office building, a restaurant/bistro, etc--which in turn invites the use of oversized sector-furniture. The sun is peeking through the clouds here, as well, so many of the indoor sections and all of the outdoor areas are brightly-lit, giving a very different feel from the gloom that has characterized E3 up to this point.

In a marked departure for the megaWAD, nearly all of the game's offensive tools can be found outside of any secrets (only the BFG and berserk pack require the player to locate secrets, and there is no chainsaw), and most of them are even freely available at the start of the map, backpack included. This ties in to the somewhat more open progression path the map features: the first leg of the mission is a trek through some kind of office building which is a microcosm of the pathing characteristic of earlier levels in the set (e.g. 03, 11, 13, etc.), where there's a fork with a locked door at the end of one branch that requires a key found at the end of the other. However, once you make it into the boardroom and leap out the windows onto the streets below (I like to think this is just a little bit of commentary on office culture from Williams here), you're presented with a wide open city plaza with several distinct locales. While the many of these areas must be visited to progress, they can generally be tackled in any order, and most of them have more than one entrance/exit, allowing for a lot of path variety and some optional content. While there are a lot of monsters present in many places (most particularly in the big street-based teleportation wave right after leaping out the office windows), the amount of movement space is vast and you're generally armed to the teeth, so outside of a couple of insidious indoor traps the advantage is generally the marine's. This is fine enough; I think the point here was to make the player feel powerful and establish a bit of contrast with the previous map, where combat was more of the focus of the trial rather than a feature of it. Even the ledge-sniping at the end of the map goes better here, perhaps because it uses mostly smaller monsters vs. an ample amount of firepower.

Entertaining map, probably has the potential to be one of the set's most popular. Oh yeah, I found all three official secrets but couldn't get that soulsphere from the kitchen area. Maybe it's not meant to be reached? Also, a couple of monsters got away somewhere, perhaps truants from that big teleporting assault force.

[plums]

MAP22 (continuous, UV, Pirate Doom! - 100% k, 100% s)
OK, so... Gywn's just fucking with us here, right? This is a HUGE level, full of switches many of which aren't obvious at all, door-key markings that are used for a multitude of purposes, symmetric layouts, and a general lack of fun combat besides that one area where cacos fly up through the windows. I don't even want to think about this level any more.

Also, weren't we in hell? I guess we aren't anymore? I kind of lost the plot while playing this, so to speak. My enthusiasm from only a few levels ago has mostly dried up, but I want to continue if for no other reason than to have done it. Bah, on to the next one.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 25 -- UAC Headquarters - 101% Kills / 100% Secrets
A somewhat shorter and marginally less expansive map to break up the series of lengthy affairs comprising most of this final episode, UAC Headquarters should be familiar in a few ways. Thematically it's a callback to the various admin/research facilities of the first episode, with a modwall/blue-carpeted main floor, some green riveted metal access corridors ala 'Secure Area', and some brushed silver lab/computer sections reminiscent of parts of 'Outpost', 'Mainframe', and the like. The sharp lighting contrast that characterized many of those E1 techbases makes a return as well, particularly in the aforementioned access corridors on the lower levels that run between the yellow/red key labs.

The action is also initially reminiscent of the tightly rationed style of resource distribution that characterized the earlier maps, at least at first--after you leave the main reception area, you're woefully underarmed and undersupplied to take on the opposition initially present, and so you have to dodge them for a while until you happen upon the SSG and build up an ammo reserve. After that's all said and done, though, the nature of the gameplay takes quite a different turn, and the map proves to be something of an outlier against the greater set.

The three colors of security card are required to open the exit, and each of the keys is found inside a separate lab setpiece, each of which can be visited in any order (not to say that some orders aren't markedly more ideal than others). These setpieces each prominently feature cyberdemons, and in one case, the spider mastermind. There's a goodly amount of variety between the three, with the blue key lab being more or less a straight-up cyberdemon fight with some arch-viles and a small horde of pinkies to run interference, the yellow key lab being a classic 'Gotcha' setup with the spider, and the red key basement being a fairly dangerous dual-cyber pincer trap--dangerous enough that I chose to run rather than fight, since it was the last of the three I visited. Incidentally, I still got a kill score over 100% percent on account of the well-used arch-vile who attacks after returning from that basement, sheltered behind a wall of blocking meat while he undoes your previous handiwork, his exact location not always readily evident on account of the deep shadows in the corridor. It's nice to see something like this, Vile Flesh generally hasn't made enough use of fleshed-out encounters like this in its interstitial areas.

Another satisfying map, benefits a lot from being a change of pace with respect to the play/traversal style of most of the rest of this final episode.

[vdgg]

MAP24. A few days ago I recorded a UV Speed demo (finished map in 3'44"), this shows perhaps how much fun the demo community has with whis WAD, MAP24 being a good example?

The map is awesome, I like the layout of the first building, you have ground floor, first floor, basement, and you don't feel Doom2 room-over-room limitations that much. This will be executed even better on MAP25.

My only complaint are two places where the progress is not-so-obvious, 1. a skull switch at the desk 2. a piece of a brown wall revealing a horde including an arch-vile. As for the soulsphere, one of the secret contains another small secret within.

MAP25. Architecture is excellent, this "balcony" with doubled elevators is a very nice touch. I would have liked the basement a bit brighter, though. For those who complain about 2 cybers being a dick move, watch Tomas Kollar's demo from the vile flesh demopack, it is *safe* to shoot them if you think how.

Plenty of ammo this time. Not many monsters, but threatening ones. Needless to say, one of my favourite maps.

[Capellan]

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't like the Ultimate Doom idea.

On well, another month off for me :)

[Suitepee]

Capellan said:

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't like the Ultimate Doom idea.

On well, another month off for me :)

I just fancy a break from fighting Revenants and chaingunners!

[Capellan]

Suitepee said:
I just fancy a break from fighting Revenants and chaingunners!

I'd be fine with a Doom or UD megawad, but I have no interest in replaying UD itself.

[Demon of the Well]

No, I actually agree with Capellan as well. The IWADs are great and all--the game probably wouldn't have captured my imagination for two decades if they weren't--but I have been playing them for two decades, and would rather try something new next month. Maybe sort of meet in the middle with D2TWiD?

That being said, the IWADs still aren't on that short list of WADs I simply won't play for the Club.

PS: Revenants are rad.

[Cynical]

I'm going to be stuck on a computer with integrated video for the end of Dec/start of Jan, so my vote is "anything that isn't hard to run smoothly".

Also, DotW, you've got a PM.

PS: You can never have too many Doom 2 monsters, aside from Chaingunners and Hell Knights. They're waaaay cooler than their Doom 1 counterparts.

[vdgg]

MAP26. Eternall Doom style map #3, I guess. I think I had never finished this before this month.

Can I say "offensive" about a map? You know, sometimes you have an experiment level which doesn't work. I'm fine with this. Sometimes you have a novice mapper. All right. But look. Not only is this map huge, but also contains a fair amount of detail, much more than MAP16 or MAP20. This means for me = Gwyn Williams put lots of effort into it. Which is a shame, because he constructed an extremely, extremely unpleasant and boring level.

Nice idea with this chaingun only level, but why implement it in one of the biggest maps? Yeah, you give me rocket launcher, but you have like 2 rockets per hell knight and you are meant to finish them off with the chaingun. As I'm awesome, I found a berserk and this was the only extra aid. Still, berserk is not powerful enough for this kind of an opposition.

Interesting fact: 315 monsters on UV and not a single shotgun guy :) (MAP30 of Eternal had one shotgun guy near the start, just for the sake of the player having such a weapon).

I finished this without the blue key, apparently you can get a green armor thanks to it. What a reward it is!

There is also a super-super-secret shotgun. This is one of the most difficult secrets to obtain I've ever seen.

To say something positive. A relatively small tech area (brown with a floor with small tiles) is nice. One fight with a big acid pool in the middle is well executed.

Well I hated this level nevertheless.

[Steve D]

I'm by no means against playing Ultimate Doom. In my case, the reason is that I've never actually played all the original maps! :D I've played Knee Deep a squillion times, which tells you where I fall on the Romero vs. Petersen debate, but not entirely. The fact is, Romero never made enough maps. Without Sandy Petersen, Doom as we know it would never have happened. And there's another thing, Sandy Petersen is an axe-murderer. Without Sandy Petersen out to rip your face off, would Romero ever have made the likes of Perfect Hatred or The Living End? I'm guessing that Petersen's aggressive maps had an influence on Romero that was all to the good, so let's face it, I love Sandy Petersen's work, I just love Romero's a little bit more.

So I guess my vote is for The Ultimate Doom, and for January I'd like to see D2TWiD. Figured I might as well start campaigning for it now. ;)

[dobu gabu maru]

Demon of the Well said:

Maybe sort of meet in the middle with D2TWiD?

That's my runner up but I feel like not choosing Ultimate Doom past on its 20th would be missing a good opportunity to replay the maps. That, and I haven't gone back to them since I began mapping, nor have I pistol started a whole episode, and I'm sure others are in a similar boat. That being said, I do have a challenge I'm cooking up for the Doom pros in an attempt to spice up what would otherwise be a tedious replay.

[plums]

MAP23 (continuous, UV, Pirate Doom! - 95% k, 40% s)
There was a quintessential Vile Flesh moment I experienced on this map: two Spider Masterminds shot each other to death while I was completely unscathed, only for me to fall in to inescapable lava and die a few moments later. Anyhow there was more combat overall which made for a nice change. I liked this one on the whole, though not enough to bother trying for max kills/secrets. It's called "Return Ticket" so I guess we were still in Hell, sort of? idunno

MAP24 (continuous, UV, Pirate Doom! - 95% k, 40% s)
City Center; okay, we're definitely back on earth now. The central building feels "full" and doesn't make you feel the limitations of Doom's engine so much, while the outside area is nice and doesn't feel "restricted" the way a lot of outdoor areas can. Texturing is a bit ugly but also interesting, and there's a lot going on. I really liked this one.

Until I got lost.

I went in the red key door, hit some switches, and now... I have no idea what to do. After wandering around for a lot, I'm just as inclined to move on to the next map. I also think I'm going to switch to PrB+ since these larger maps, combined with Pirate Doom, are making my computer choke a bit. Too bad.

[vdgg]

You almost finished, plums.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wojtunio/media/vile07_zpseddae071.png.html

Try pushing the wall with the lights on top.

[plums]

HAH! And here I've been pretty good about catching secret stuff until now. OK, I'll give it another go.

Thanks.

[vdgg]

MAP27. This is a beautiful map with a few memorable moments, "hellish" tall pillars rising for the player, a fight with an AV in a tiny SPACEW4 room/lift, sumberging the player into a pit and teleporting hell knights and chaingunners, a room with organ-like ceiling lights, a room with red key stripes changing into yellow key stripes...

This map is also the one which I would choose as the most severe ammo shortage map. If you find the berserk pack secret, you'll be fine with ammo, but still there is not enough firepower IMO, making the exploration very slow. I would, for example, make the backpack non-secret and add some rockets here and there, this would fix it.

Oh yes, a 32 unit gap makes the NM Speed/UV Speed possible under 40 seconds, I would never make such a mistake as a mapper :-P

[Veinen]

Map25: UAC Headquarters

This was pretty decent once again. Shorter than expected, which was very much welcomed, and kind of a throwback to the earlier tech levels. The combat was rather set piece -oriented for a change and the major battles were quite memorable actually. Not very hard mind you, not even the dual Cybers chamber since I immediately found out the "easy way" to defuse the sitation. The YK battle was actually the one that killed me as the SM and Cyber just refused to infight in my first attempt.

Map26: Service Tunnels

Now this on the other hand, was a snoozer. So damn huge and confusing, I really don't get why Gwyn had to put the key and key doors so far apart. I spent a good while trying to find a use for the YK. Also BK, why? A whopping green armor for all that effort.

What made things even worse was the fact that your primary weapon was the Chaingun for the longest time. Nothing wrong with the Chaingun in small doses but personally I just don't find it very useful or exciting in all around combat. A shotgun has much more charm even if it's not any more effective against middleweights. I wasn't even awesome enough to find the Berserk pack so I couldn't go on a punching rampage :(

Map27: Dimension Shift

This was enjoyable. I thought this dimension shift concept was pretty cool and worked well. Particularly liked that one "shift zone" where decorations on the wall are half paintings and half demon faces heh. Crude as hell but looked amusing. Combat was good and had a few memorable moments. The AV in a tiny room for one and also the Pinkie onslaught in the Berserk "secret". The finale was okay although I think I cheesed it a bit; I pretty much lured one of the Cybers to kill everything else in the are without much effort on my part. SSG was given pretty late though, unless it's in a secret somewhere. Only found that berserk one which was very helpful in the end. Maybe it was my punch everything if possible attitude but I really had no ammo problems whatsoever here.

-------

Played map28 a bit... Did Williams purposefully attempt to put as much bullshit as possible in the opening two areas? Quit after a few deaths and I'm really not feeling very enthusiastic about trying again.

[vdgg]

MAP28. One of the levels I don't remember very well. My expectations were low (Grazza was wondering in his review if this level was meant to be a joke). The big room with lava, hell knights in cages, cacos being released, rising ledges, etc., was quite OK. I'm neutral about the rest. There's plenty of bare MODWALL corridors and a strange "steps" structure with revenants released after every step. For pistol start I see no way to win this other than extreme luck or killing sergeants first, then escaping.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 26 -- Service Tunnels - 100% Kills / 75% Secrets
Hmm, yeah, I remember this, but for some reason I was thinking it was going to be map 28. Guess I've got Plutonia on the brain. Guess I was also wrong about map 16 having a unique music track. Shame, I don't think the track fits very well in this environment. Other than that, it's fairly serviceable aesthetically. Although neither the layout nor the texture scheme is particularly interesting--tons of dark metal and even more orthogonal corridor-crawls than usual--light and darkness are used well in contrast to one another, and Williams' propensity for unnecessarily huge rooms still appeals to me. I also like Hell-nest near the end--does a good job of foreshadowing the running theme of the next map--even though the lighting in there is pretty naff.

Unfortunately, the map just doesn't feel right when one is playing it. Many have attributed this to chaingun-oriented gameplay (chaingunning mancs and HKs and whatnot is generally no more popular than shotgunning them), but that doesn't really bother me much, since you periodically get groups of lightweights to mow down, as well. No, I think the problem is that the mapflow is scatterbrained to a fault, and some of the item placement is just plain goofy. One recurring criticism of Vile Flesh so far has been that, for all of its expansive territory, it's usually highly linear in nature, and contains little in the way of optional areas. This map is still pretty linear, but a ton of it is optional, which one would think would be a welcome change, but the optional stuff is all either terribly pointless, terribly redundant, or both--almost all of the main sightseeing happens along the main route, and the side stuff often garners nothing other than a few armor bonuses, stimpacks, and useless shortcuts, without containing any memorable fights--the only reason to explore this level in full is for the sake of completism. This is a function of poor layout (like Williams was just filling in empty interior map space for the sake of doing so), but also of strange item placement, as said. I'm okay with the regular shotgun being incredibly well-hidden, and only reachable after getting the SSG--feels like it's intentionally comedic--but yeah, the whole blue key fiasco is just plain fucked up. Really feels like Williams intended for the item to be a megasphere or BFG or something instead of a measly green armor, but just failed to test the map thoroughly before releasing the WAD. As it stands, doing that whole extended sidequest and then being rewarded with nothing but that lousy green armor (and maybe the chance to have seen the Hell-nest) just sort of underscores how pointless so much of this map feels. Incidentally, the berserk pack was the secret I couldn't get, embarrassing since I've got this funny feeling like it was probably the simplest of the four.

Map 27 -- Dimension Shift - 102% Kills / 50% Secrets
Now this is cool. Apparently the situation has gone even farther south while the marine was lollygagging about down in the Service Tunnels, as Hell's waxing influence in the area has begun to have a deleterious effect on the very fabric of earthly reality--though the overall setting here is very obviously another part of the same cityscape featured so prominently in map 24 (albeit far more gloomy and littered with corpses and strange soul-barriers), a more sinister reality is lurking just beyond the dimensional veil, and throughout the course of his time here the marine is going to be stumbling into its grasp. The concept of shifting realities gives Williams free reign to try out a variety of traversal and setpiece ideas in the course of juxtaposing the 'realistic' city setting against the abstract otherworld, leading to whimsical ideas like hopping around on phantasmal crackle-pillars that appear from thin air in the streets to fighting out of the strange terraced 'candle peephole' room near the end.

The play's once again not particularly difficult, although the variety of settings within the map betokens some nice wrinkles in the combat--fighting in the pitch dark, fighting on narrow safezones in the ooze sewers, fighting out of the pit-trap in one of the shift-zones, fighting the dastardly arch-vile that appears right in your face at one point (I ended up shutting him out of the little room, thereby avoiding direct harm at the price of him rezzing a whole bunch of stuff), etc. Pretty high monster count in this one, as well, again partially a natural consequence of the map's overall length, but also owing to the presence of a couple of street-flood teleporter assaults ala map 24. The second of these is, I believe, the single largest concentration of monsters in one place in the whole WAD....while it's a good (though quite optional) fight, especially with the overlooking cyberdemons mixed in, it does sort of belie one of VF's main isses, that being that many of its big spaces just plain needed more monsters (on UV) than Williams provided. Incidentally, it was thoughtful of him to auto-kill the cyberdemons for you, but unfortunately he used standard crushers instead of slow crushers, and so it takes quite a while. I found half of the secrets--the berserk pack and the plasma rifle--and like Veinen had no real problems concerning ammo, even without using the rifle much....shells are kind of rare for the first half of the map, I guess, but there were generally more than enough bullets and rockets to compensate. Guess I can see where someone that fails to find the early (and easy) berserk secret might have a rough time at points, though.

[Marcaek]

I'm going to throw in a late suggestion for Whitemare. It's a wintery set of Russian speedmaps that was pretty cool from what I remember of it. I think there's some christmassy stuff in it too :P

[vdgg]

MAP29. The map is OK. Mixing BLAKWALL with marbles is a brave choice, it works well. A good pick for a MAP29 slot. I have some concerns about the gameplay, though. First, two barons in a tech-like room. Two barons with just an SSG, we've had enough of this. Near the end I managed to run out of ammo in a very crowded room where chaingunners keep replacing the dead ones. I escaped to the ledge marble room with 0 ammo of everything and it sucked, because the only way back was occupied with plenty of monsters. "Thanks" to this "adventure" I found a secret berserk and cheated a bit (loaded a game) only to realize the exit was very close. And another thing: not for the first time, the exit is NOT clearly marked as such. I would expect one more room behind the arch-vile... Still, a decent level overall.

[vdgg]

MAP30. IoS maps are not my cup of tea, a silly level as usual.

Very surprised about the negativity here, now I am more aware that I like different types of maps than most of the people. I was not very impressed by VF after my first playthrough, but could not forget about it either. After certain, unknown amount of time (1-2 years?) I started appreciating the WAD and it is my favourite from 2004. (I haven't played through Nilla, but I have to say I replay VF much more often than CChest2 which is awesome as well).

Honestly, I find Gwyn Williams an awesome level designer. He has great sense of stock texture usage and of vanilla mapping tricks. What I dislike about his creations is usually orthogonality and symmetry. He also made a few silly ommissions, for example he wanted to force a pistol start on MAP17, but forgot about exploiting an invulnerability, which almost everyone noticed. Lots of maps are not-so-great, but I tend to replay the few that I like much more often than the others, hence I rate the WAD higher than I would if I made an average level score.

Favourite maps: 6,9,13,14,21,24,25. Honorable mention to map 2,5,20,23,27,29. Great music and this is probably the only point of agreement in this thread...

[Veinen]

Map28: Tower Block

Despite my initial distaste I played through this eventually. And beyond the garbage start it got more enjoyable for sure. Can't say it would've been very memorable though since I've already forgotten most of it and I played this just last night. The weirdo staircases were kind of nicely crafted, both the traditional one you go downwards and the rather punishing upwards journey through the consecutive identical rooms. Honestly don't remember anything about the rest of the map, other than that it was much, much better than the start of the map.

Map29: Earth Siege

Well, I'm legitimately surprised at how much I enjoyed this map. I mean, I should hate the ledge acrobatics parts but I thought even they worked well with the projectile slinging enemies all around. The bigger battles were fun as you're very encouraged to cause infighting and just dancing around the opposition can be fun in itself. Perhaps because of this I once again had no ammo problems at all. Even had the luxury to waste a ton of rockets in the neverending Chaingunners room. And I just realized that I found the BFG but never even used it heh. The only area I didn't particularly fancy was the massive room near the end which had the trickiest acrobatics in the level. Still, I have to applaud on that solitary Manc placement. Less is more sometimes.

Map30: Hell Revealed

Typical IoS map, offers nothing we haven't seen a thousand times already. Really simple and quickly over.

--------

Overall I thought this was a rather forgettable and average mapset. Some of the longer maps were a bit too long for their own good and the wad started to drag a bit towards the end. I have no problems with long maps per se; I also played Eternal Doom for the first time this month and absolutely loved it, but I guess it's the combination of the lack of really interesting battles and the clinical environments that bored me a bit as levels got longer and longer. Eternal Doom can be a lot more confusing at points but it's just so much more atmospheric and interesting visually that even when you're wandering around in confusion the maps don't feel frustrating or boring. Whereas in this one the simplistic visuals drained away my excitement in quiter times.

Now obviously Gwyn Williams is a skilled mapper which is displaeyd by they myriad of clever tricks he has implemented in the wad. But I agree that he tends to use orthogonality and symmetry too much, which just adds to the simplicity. I used the word clinical earlier and I think it describes the overall feel of the wad perfectly, lacks the necessary edge to make it memorable. The custom music is nice though, no complaints on that department.

The difficulty in the wad was average at best and I strolled through most of the set quite comfortably. Some of the larger maps, Cathedral, Guard Towers etc., felt way too empty for their own good too. I did generally like Williams' use of teleport traps and how they weren't homogenous but even they could have had a bit more bite more often than not. The finale traps especially. Weapons in secrets is a pretty major blow in my opinion and lessens the experience in some of the maps considerably. I can imagine speedrunning the wad is a lot more fun since you have the foreknowledge of the secret arsenals. Speedier playing also results in more action but a casual first-time playthrough wasn't very exciting all in all.

Favorite maps: 29, 24, 23, 21, 14 and 08.