things about Doom that bug or puzzle you?

[Antroid]

My favorite hellish music from the original dooms has got to be Waltz of the Demons.

Actually!

It bugs the SHIT out of me that it was used in E2M7! You see, in the SNES version there's no e2m7 and the track debuts in Limbo, where it fits like a glove and makes for an absolutely unforgettable last hell level.
However, the fact that it's used in e2m7 in the original version just completely spoils it.

I would also like to complain about the original e2m1's music as I think e1m9's fits it so much more, like on the SNES.

[Waffenak]

getting lost or hunting last remaining key is irritating as hell

[Zed]

Waffenak said:

getting lost or hunting last remaining key is irritating as hell

It may be strange, but I actually enjoy getting lost, or trying to find obscure or complex secrets. Maybe because I'm more like an "explorer" type of player, or maybe I'm just a masochist. But when I find the exit or that secret that kept me searching for hours/days, the feeling is simply amazing. I like that shit.

[ASD]

Played Heretic E4 coop today and got stuck in E4M8 because of the multiplayer-only teleport near the exit kept sending us back to the start. That's really dumb and its only purpose is to prevent deathmatchers exiting the map after destroying the liches, but who plays dm with monsters anyways?

[BaronOfStuff]

This piece of shit.

[Suitepee]

Zed said:

This is particularly irritating.

Wow, this would explain why I've noticed in the past hitscan monsters missing me at point blank range (and vice-versa).

Revenants bug me in Doom. I hate them and any wad author that deliberately places several of them far away from the player just so I'm forced to take cover every few seconds due to homing rockets. And all this despite the fact Revenants are extremely squishy!

[drifter20k]

I fucking hate Chaingunners. If I am playing a megawad for the first time that is really taxing on my nerves and health is hard to find, I hate all of a sudden having my health cut in half in a matter of one second before I even see the Chaingunner filling me with bullets. I will use a rocket from the coveted rocket launcher to kill one Chaingunner and not consider it a waste of ammo and I am very stingy on rockets and cells. Just one Chaingunner will fuck you up in an intense level if you are not constantly on the balls of your feet, playing to the point of headaches and wrist pains.

Another thing that really brings my piss to a boil is a random crushing ceiling in a stupid place. Just when I get through a Hellish onslaught of mass murder on a map and barely survive, I walk into a hallway or room and get crushed to death and haven't saved in a long time. I remember playing through The Plutonia Experiment for the first time and having a hard time on Level 26 "Bunker", all of Final Doom was a chore for me to beat but I did it anyway Ultra Violence as a right of passage. I cleared out all of the Revenants and other assholes and I was low on health. I went down a hallway towards a key and my ass gets crushed to death. My brother was watching me play this day and he watched as I freaked the fuck out. I picked up the keyboard and threw it at the monitor and pulled the power cord for the computer out of the wall (old Pentium III no big deal, I have lots of them). I have not rage quit from a game in years but Final Doom really brought out the rage in me.

[Doominator2]

I also tend to to hate the former human enemies because you cant dodge their projectiles.

[Pleasure Elemental]

what is that snuffling sound that often randomly occurs when playing Doom?

it isn't made by any monster.

i used to think it was the sound of a soul sphere but I'm not so sure

[dg93]

I have to agree with drifter20k statement regarding the chaingunners. MAP09 from Doom 2 grinds my gears because in a sector there is a linedef that activates walls to raise (109: Door open stay (fast)) and there you have 13 chaingunners shooting you all at once.

[Devalaous]

Pleasure Elemental said:

what is that snuffling sound that often randomly occurs when playing Doom?

it isn't made by any monster.

i used to think it was the sound of a soul sphere but I'm not so sure

Snuffling? Isnt that the imp idle sound?

[Pleasure Elemental]

Ragnor said:

Snuffling? Isnt that the imp idle sound?

no I can't really describe the sound in words

here's an example: in E1M3 Toxin refinery - when you get to the blue soul sphere (near the beginning through the left door) you hear the noise

it's always bugged me

is it the sound of a secret area?

[Foxpup]

Pleasure Elemental said:

here's an example: in E1M3 Toxin refinery - when you get to the blue soul sphere (near the beginning through the left door) you hear the noise

Those are imps making that noise. Kill all the imps (including the ones in the secret areas) to shut them up.

[Pleasure Elemental]

Foxpup said:

Those are imps making that noise. Kill all the imps (including the ones in the secret areas) to shut them up.

oh yeah you're right. My bad

[Doomtodeath]

Meh, I remember when I used to play Doom 2 at a younger age, I would get lost in the maps all the time. lol

[NuMetalManiak]

I really hate seeing former humans in lava or other outer-worldly substances that they really shouldn't be standing on. I know this game is pretty unrealistic but come on. Lava-proof boots?

[Darch]

I don't like how Doom II spoils two new monsters at map 07, and the only new weapon at map 02. By map 11 you've seen everything already (except for Icon of Sin, of course).

[ProGamerX56]

Well I was always annoyed that you can't open the console for parameters without downloading an external exe. Plus I hated the fact that Chainsaw replaces Fists.

[scifista42]

Darch said:

I don't like how Doom II spoils two new monsters at map 07, and the only new weapon at map 02. By map 11 you've seen everything already (except for Icon of Sin, of course).

You have to admit though that this approach of quickly introducing new content has its advantages. It allows the level designers to not only catch player's attention soon, but also to thoroughly show the full power of those new monsters, having a lot of space to employ them in various gameplay situations.

How well the id guys actually managed to do it, that's another thing.

[Darch]

scifista42 said:

You have to admit though that this approach of quickly introducing new content has its advantages. It allows the level designers to not only catch player's attention soon, but also to thoroughly show the full power of those new monsters, having a lot of space to employ them in various gameplay situations.

How well the id guys actually managed to do it, that's another thing.

I can understand this point of view, but I think ten maps would be enough to develop these situations, they could have done it more sparsely. About how id managed it, I think some things have a nice presentation, like the Arch Vile's first encounter, and others seem just thrown at maps, like Revenant's first appearance.

[Koko Ricky]

Gez said:

The MUS format. I wish it had never existed, and instead Doom had always supported true MIDI natively.

What is the difference?

[40oz]

Darch said:

By map 11 you've seen everything already (except for Icon of Sin, of course).

except the remaining 21 maps :V

i mean would you still be playing doom if you couldn't play new maps?

[glenzinho]

ProGamerX56 said:

Well I was always annoyed that you can't open the console for parameters without downloading an external exe. Plus I hated the fact that Chainsaw replaces Fists.

Press number 1 while using the chainsaw and see what happens.

[Da Werecat]

glenzinho said:

Press number 1 while using the chainsaw and see what happens.

In ZDoom.

Or when you're berserk.

[glenzinho]

Da Werecat said:

In ZDoom.

Or when you're berserk.

Really?
*Loads up Chocolate Doom because all out of vanilla*
Mind = blown!

[Koko Ricky]

Waffenak said:

getting lost or hunting last remaining key is irritating as hell

I haven't seriously sat down and played the original Doom/Doom 2 maps in some time, but I remember a few specific maps still giving me trouble, even after years of playing. There are a few layouts that were just a little too clever in terms of design. Mt. Erebus comes to mind, as does The Citadel, even though those maps are very interesting and fun.

[june gloom]

glenzinho said:

Really?
*Loads up Chocolate Doom because all out of vanilla*
Mind = blown!

I had a moment like that recently. One of my favourite things about the old Doom 64 TC was the weapons lit up when you fired -- it was always a blast watching the entire darkened bedroom light up in a strobe when I unloaded the chaingun. But Doom 64 EX didn't do that, because that wasn't vanilla Doom 64 behaviour. In fact, it's not even vanilla behaviour -- I've been using G/Zdoom so long I'd forgotten. I had to double-check through Chocolate Doom, and when I did...



Kaiser said he might consider putting it in as an option, though. I hope he does. The vanilla behaviour bugs the shit out of me now.

[Gez]

dethtoll said:

In fact, it's not even vanilla behaviour

Yes it is.

void A_Light0 (player_t *player, pspdef_t *psp)
{
    player->extralight = 0;
}

void A_Light1 (player_t *player, pspdef_t *psp)
{
    player->extralight = 1;
}

void A_Light2 (player_t *player, pspdef_t *psp)
{
    player->extralight = 2;
}

You'll see calls to these functions all over the weapon attack states (except fist and chainsaw of course).

    {SPR_TROO,0,-1,{NULL},S_NULL,0,0},	// S_NULL
    {SPR_SHTG,4,0,{A_Light0},S_NULL,0,0},	// S_LIGHTDONE
    {SPR_PUNG,0,1,{A_WeaponReady},S_PUNCH,0,0},	// S_PUNCH
    {SPR_PUNG,0,1,{A_Lower},S_PUNCHDOWN,0,0},	// S_PUNCHDOWN
    {SPR_PUNG,0,1,{A_Raise},S_PUNCHUP,0,0},	// S_PUNCHUP
    {SPR_PUNG,1,4,{NULL},S_PUNCH2,0,0},		// S_PUNCH1
    {SPR_PUNG,2,4,{A_Punch},S_PUNCH3,0,0},	// S_PUNCH2
    {SPR_PUNG,3,5,{NULL},S_PUNCH4,0,0},		// S_PUNCH3
    {SPR_PUNG,2,4,{NULL},S_PUNCH5,0,0},		// S_PUNCH4
    {SPR_PUNG,1,5,{A_ReFire},S_PUNCH,0,0},	// S_PUNCH5
    {SPR_PISG,0,1,{A_WeaponReady},S_PISTOL,0,0},// S_PISTOL
    {SPR_PISG,0,1,{A_Lower},S_PISTOLDOWN,0,0},	// S_PISTOLDOWN
    {SPR_PISG,0,1,{A_Raise},S_PISTOLUP,0,0},	// S_PISTOLUP
    {SPR_PISG,0,4,{NULL},S_PISTOL2,0,0},	// S_PISTOL1
    {SPR_PISG,1,6,{A_FirePistol},S_PISTOL3,0,0},// S_PISTOL2
    {SPR_PISG,2,4,{NULL},S_PISTOL4,0,0},	// S_PISTOL3
    {SPR_PISG,1,5,{A_ReFire},S_PISTOL,0,0},	// S_PISTOL4
    {SPR_PISF,32768,7,{A_Light1},S_LIGHTDONE,0,0},	// S_PISTOLFLASH
    {SPR_SHTG,0,1,{A_WeaponReady},S_SGUN,0,0},	// S_SGUN
    {SPR_SHTG,0,1,{A_Lower},S_SGUNDOWN,0,0},	// S_SGUNDOWN
    {SPR_SHTG,0,1,{A_Raise},S_SGUNUP,0,0},	// S_SGUNUP
    {SPR_SHTG,0,3,{NULL},S_SGUN2,0,0},	// S_SGUN1
    {SPR_SHTG,0,7,{A_FireShotgun},S_SGUN3,0,0},	// S_SGUN2
    {SPR_SHTG,1,5,{NULL},S_SGUN4,0,0},	// S_SGUN3
    {SPR_SHTG,2,5,{NULL},S_SGUN5,0,0},	// S_SGUN4
    {SPR_SHTG,3,4,{NULL},S_SGUN6,0,0},	// S_SGUN5
    {SPR_SHTG,2,5,{NULL},S_SGUN7,0,0},	// S_SGUN6
    {SPR_SHTG,1,5,{NULL},S_SGUN8,0,0},	// S_SGUN7
    {SPR_SHTG,0,3,{NULL},S_SGUN9,0,0},	// S_SGUN8
    {SPR_SHTG,0,7,{A_ReFire},S_SGUN,0,0},	// S_SGUN9
    {SPR_SHTF,32768,4,{A_Light1},S_SGUNFLASH2,0,0},	// S_SGUNFLASH1
    {SPR_SHTF,32769,3,{A_Light2},S_LIGHTDONE,0,0},	// S_SGUNFLASH2
    {SPR_SHT2,0,1,{A_WeaponReady},S_DSGUN,0,0},	// S_DSGUN
    {SPR_SHT2,0,1,{A_Lower},S_DSGUNDOWN,0,0},	// S_DSGUNDOWN
    {SPR_SHT2,0,1,{A_Raise},S_DSGUNUP,0,0},	// S_DSGUNUP
    {SPR_SHT2,0,3,{NULL},S_DSGUN2,0,0},	// S_DSGUN1
    {SPR_SHT2,0,7,{A_FireShotgun2},S_DSGUN3,0,0},	// S_DSGUN2
    {SPR_SHT2,1,7,{NULL},S_DSGUN4,0,0},	// S_DSGUN3
    {SPR_SHT2,2,7,{A_CheckReload},S_DSGUN5,0,0},	// S_DSGUN4
    {SPR_SHT2,3,7,{A_OpenShotgun2},S_DSGUN6,0,0},	// S_DSGUN5
    {SPR_SHT2,4,7,{NULL},S_DSGUN7,0,0},	// S_DSGUN6
    {SPR_SHT2,5,7,{A_LoadShotgun2},S_DSGUN8,0,0},	// S_DSGUN7
    {SPR_SHT2,6,6,{NULL},S_DSGUN9,0,0},	// S_DSGUN8
    {SPR_SHT2,7,6,{A_CloseShotgun2},S_DSGUN10,0,0},	// S_DSGUN9
    {SPR_SHT2,0,5,{A_ReFire},S_DSGUN,0,0},	// S_DSGUN10
    {SPR_SHT2,1,7,{NULL},S_DSNR2,0,0},	// S_DSNR1
    {SPR_SHT2,0,3,{NULL},S_DSGUNDOWN,0,0},	// S_DSNR2
    {SPR_SHT2,32776,5,{A_Light1},S_DSGUNFLASH2,0,0},	// S_DSGUNFLASH1
    {SPR_SHT2,32777,4,{A_Light2},S_LIGHTDONE,0,0},	// S_DSGUNFLASH2
    {SPR_CHGG,0,1,{A_WeaponReady},S_CHAIN,0,0},	// S_CHAIN
    {SPR_CHGG,0,1,{A_Lower},S_CHAINDOWN,0,0},	// S_CHAINDOWN
    {SPR_CHGG,0,1,{A_Raise},S_CHAINUP,0,0},	// S_CHAINUP
    {SPR_CHGG,0,4,{A_FireCGun},S_CHAIN2,0,0},	// S_CHAIN1
    {SPR_CHGG,1,4,{A_FireCGun},S_CHAIN3,0,0},	// S_CHAIN2
    {SPR_CHGG,1,0,{A_ReFire},S_CHAIN,0,0},	// S_CHAIN3
    {SPR_CHGF,32768,5,{A_Light1},S_LIGHTDONE,0,0},	// S_CHAINFLASH1
    {SPR_CHGF,32769,5,{A_Light2},S_LIGHTDONE,0,0},	// S_CHAINFLASH2
    {SPR_MISG,0,1,{A_WeaponReady},S_MISSILE,0,0},	// S_MISSILE
    {SPR_MISG,0,1,{A_Lower},S_MISSILEDOWN,0,0},	// S_MISSILEDOWN
    {SPR_MISG,0,1,{A_Raise},S_MISSILEUP,0,0},	// S_MISSILEUP
    {SPR_MISG,1,8,{A_GunFlash},S_MISSILE2,0,0},	// S_MISSILE1
    {SPR_MISG,1,12,{A_FireMissile},S_MISSILE3,0,0},	// S_MISSILE2
    {SPR_MISG,1,0,{A_ReFire},S_MISSILE,0,0},	// S_MISSILE3
    {SPR_MISF,32768,3,{A_Light1},S_MISSILEFLASH2,0,0},	// S_MISSILEFLASH1
    {SPR_MISF,32769,4,{NULL},S_MISSILEFLASH3,0,0},	// S_MISSILEFLASH2
    {SPR_MISF,32770,4,{A_Light2},S_MISSILEFLASH4,0,0},	// S_MISSILEFLASH3
    {SPR_MISF,32771,4,{A_Light2},S_LIGHTDONE,0,0},	// S_MISSILEFLASH4
    {SPR_SAWG,2,4,{A_WeaponReady},S_SAWB,0,0},	// S_SAW
    {SPR_SAWG,3,4,{A_WeaponReady},S_SAW,0,0},	// S_SAWB
    {SPR_SAWG,2,1,{A_Lower},S_SAWDOWN,0,0},	// S_SAWDOWN
    {SPR_SAWG,2,1,{A_Raise},S_SAWUP,0,0},	// S_SAWUP
    {SPR_SAWG,0,4,{A_Saw},S_SAW2,0,0},	// S_SAW1
    {SPR_SAWG,1,4,{A_Saw},S_SAW3,0,0},	// S_SAW2
    {SPR_SAWG,1,0,{A_ReFire},S_SAW,0,0},	// S_SAW3
    {SPR_PLSG,0,1,{A_WeaponReady},S_PLASMA,0,0},	// S_PLASMA
    {SPR_PLSG,0,1,{A_Lower},S_PLASMADOWN,0,0},	// S_PLASMADOWN
    {SPR_PLSG,0,1,{A_Raise},S_PLASMAUP,0,0},	// S_PLASMAUP
    {SPR_PLSG,0,3,{A_FirePlasma},S_PLASMA2,0,0},	// S_PLASMA1
    {SPR_PLSG,1,20,{A_ReFire},S_PLASMA,0,0},	// S_PLASMA2
    {SPR_PLSF,32768,4,{A_Light1},S_LIGHTDONE,0,0},	// S_PLASMAFLASH1
    {SPR_PLSF,32769,4,{A_Light1},S_LIGHTDONE,0,0},	// S_PLASMAFLASH2
    {SPR_BFGG,0,1,{A_WeaponReady},S_BFG,0,0},	// S_BFG
    {SPR_BFGG,0,1,{A_Lower},S_BFGDOWN,0,0},	// S_BFGDOWN
    {SPR_BFGG,0,1,{A_Raise},S_BFGUP,0,0},	// S_BFGUP
    {SPR_BFGG,0,20,{A_BFGsound},S_BFG2,0,0},	// S_BFG1
    {SPR_BFGG,1,10,{A_GunFlash},S_BFG3,0,0},	// S_BFG2
    {SPR_BFGG,1,10,{A_FireBFG},S_BFG4,0,0},	// S_BFG3
    {SPR_BFGG,1,20,{A_ReFire},S_BFG,0,0},	// S_BFG4
    {SPR_BFGF,32768,11,{A_Light1},S_BFGFLASH2,0,0},	// S_BFGFLASH1
    {SPR_BFGF,32769,6,{A_Light2},S_LIGHTDONE,0,0},	// S_BFGFLASH2

Why do you think it'd be in the old Doomsday-based Doom64 TC if it wasn't vanilla behavior? Doomsday isn't derived in any way from ZDoom. If increasing ambient lighting when the weapons flash was an effect invented by ZDoom, it wouldn't have been included in Doomsday, and therefore it wouldn't have been present in the old version of Doomsday used by the TC. It's not like they'd have added that specifically for the TC since it's not Doom64 behavior.

[machoman127]

daedrahj said:

Don't know if this has been mentioned or not, but what about tricks and traps, Doom 2. Fantastic level, but the last door before the exit might annoy you if you haven't saved it, you fall off and the platforms have sunk the bottom.

Find sector 97 -- problem solved.

[machoman127]

machoman127 said:

Find sector 97 -- problem solved.

Sorry -- I meant SECTOR 81 --don't know where my mind was. Anyway, access to this area is granted if you quickly run onto and retreat from
the first of those platforms (before the door closes).