Crispy Doom 6.0 (Update: Mar 31, 2023)

[braders1986]

I wouldn't know where to start, sadly. I put myself together a dedicated Win 98 machine, out of the way (under the stairs, lol), since my new small form factor PC build is only for gaming on the couch with a controller. This old Win 98 PC is pretty much the only place I can play games like DOOM and Duke, now. Plus, this CRT monitor is gorgeous.

 

Understandable if a big undertaking, but if possible, could you compile a version for Win 98.

[mikeday]

9 hours ago, braders1986 said:

I wouldn't know where to start, sadly. I put myself together a dedicated Win 98 machine, out of the way (under the stairs, lol), since my new small form factor PC build is only for gaming on the couch with a controller. This old Win 98 PC is pretty much the only place I can play games like DOOM and Duke, now. Plus, this CRT monitor is gorgeous.

 

Understandable if a big undertaking, but if possible, could you compile a version for Win 98.

Since you have a Win 98 setup, you should take a look at running Boom and MBF in DOS mode. Or maybe old versions of ZDoom? (I think it was Win 98 native, no DOS mode needed). That's certainly how I was playing Doom back in the days of Win 98. :)

[braders1986]

20 minutes ago, mikeday said:

Since you have a Win 98 setup, you should take a look at running Boom and MBF in DOS mode. Or maybe old versions of ZDoom? (I think it was Win 98 native, no DOS mode needed). That's certainly how I was playing Doom back in the days of Win 98. :)

I'm not a fan of those source ports. Too inaccurate, especially in regard to older GZDoom. They lack the many improvements offered by Crispy. The vanilla look, and the wad support that Crispy offers is a must, otherwise I'd just stick with older Chocolate Doom build on Win 98.

Edited November 21, 2021 by braders1986

[mikeday]

27 minutes ago, braders1986 said:

I'm not a fan of those source ports. Too inaccurate, especially in regard to older GZDoom. They lack the many improvements offered by Crispy. The vanilla look, and the wad support that Crispy offers is a must, otherwise I'd just stick with older Chocolate Doom build on Win 98.

You could also check out Doom-plus or Doom2-plus if support for limit-removing wads is what you're after.

Edited November 21, 2021 by mikeday

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

50 minutes ago, braders1986 said:

 They lack the many improvements offered by Crispy. 

You can use MBF and tweak the compatibility settings to make it behave like vanilla. Plus it has a High resolution mode like crispy-doom. Plus you can play vanilla wads, limit removing wads (I think, haven't really tried) boom maps and mbf maps (But they have to be compatible with the DOS exe, so for example, Sunlust and Eviternity won't run)

[braders1986]

33 minutes ago, Lol 6 said:

You can use MBF and tweak the compatibility settings to make it behave like vanilla. Plus it has a High resolution mode like crispy-doom. Plus you can play vanilla wads, limit removing wads (I think, haven't really tried) boom maps and mbf maps (But they have to be compatible with the DOS exe, so for example, Sunlust and Eviternity won't run)

Sadly another highly inaccurate SP, even with tweaking, and not what I am after. I'm looking into Doom-plus/Doom2-plus, but in terms of source ports, I'm only interested in Crispy, and getting Crispy to run on Win 98.

Edited November 21, 2021 by braders1986

[Redneckerz]

9 minutes ago, braders1986 said:

Sadly another highly inaccurate SP, even with tweaking, and not what I am after. I'm looking into Doom-plus/Doom2-plus, but in terms of source ports, I'm only interested in Crispy, and getting Crispy to run on Win 98.

So no Sprinkled Doom? :/

 

You are driving a hard bargain.

[braders1986]

49 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

So no Sprinkled Doom? :/

 

You are driving a hard bargain.

That looks rather tasty. I'm guessing no Win98 though, considering Newer Choco builds use SDL2

[Redneckerz]

11 minutes ago, braders1986 said:

That looks rather tasty. I'm guessing no Win98 though, considering Newer Choco builds use SDL2

I could only recommend you Zip Doom which is a Chocolate Doom 3.0.0 fork but on SDL1 and tracked music support.

 

It does come for multiple OSes though.

 

 

[Gibbon]

Sprinkled Doom uses SDL2 (like modern Choco).  I also compile it without older Win32 stuff so it won't even run on XP, this is by design as I cannot support such things.

 

Oh, I'll zip up those libraries for you later!

[chungy]

13 hours ago, braders1986 said:

Understandable if a big undertaking, but if possible, could you compile a version for Win 98.

It's not that easy, SDL itself will be difficult to backport to Windows 9x, and that's not even to mention finding a compiler that supports Win9x. None of the current offerings (GCC, LLVM, MSVC) target Win9x; the last of the list doesn't even produce binaries that run on pre-Win7 anymore. Using old compilers will probably just expose recent language features that SDL and/or Chocolate Doom have been using. GCC at least is probably the most likely one you can modify to restore full Win9x compatibility, but that's not a small feat.

 

It's a fairly big task. A developer that cares about Windows 98 could get it done and get past those hurdles, but it's a rather tall ask when Choco/Crispy already has devs that don't use any form of Windows at all.

 

There is KernelEx you might try. It has an attempt at getting Windows XP through 7 binaries running on 98. If that doesn't work, it's back to needing to put effort into porting Crispy and SDL.

[braders1986]

7 minutes ago, chungy said:

It's not that easy, SDL itself will be difficult to backport to Windows 9x, and that's not even to mention finding a compiler that supports Win9x. None of the current offerings (GCC, LLVM, MSVC) target Win9x; the last of the list doesn't even produce binaries that run on pre-Win7 anymore. Using old compilers will probably just expose recent language features that SDL and/or Chocolate Doom have been using. GCC at least is probably the most likely one you can modify to restore full Win9x compatibility, but that's not a small feat.

 

It's a fairly big task. A developer that cares about Windows 98 could get it done and get past those hurdles, but it's a rather tall ask when Choco/Crispy already has devs that don't use any form of Windows at all.

 

There is KernelEx you might try. It has an attempt at getting Windows XP through 7 binaries running on 98. If that doesn't work, it's back to needing to put effort into porting Crispy and SDL.

 

Appreciate the detailed reply. Indeed, hopefully someone that is interested in the novelty of a Win 98 port can have a bash at it in the future. If not, no worries. Tall ask for only a small audience. Understandable.

A few suggestions on this page alone that I had no idea of, so there is no lack of enthusiasm when it comes to people still making Source Ports. That's a good thing.

[Gibbon]

I'm curious, has anyone (Fabian, Roman) thought about using the Mac iwad launcher from Doom Retro (though that is GPLv3) or PRBoom?

[rfomin]

3 hours ago, Gibbon said:

I'm curious, has anyone (Fabian, Roman) thought about using the Mac iwad launcher from Doom Retro (though that is GPLv3) or PRBoom?

I don't have access to the Mac and I'm not an Apple user in general.

[fabian]

3 minutes ago, rfomin said:

I don't have access to the Mac and I'm not an Apple user in general.

Same here.

[braders1986]

12 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

I could only recommend you Zip Doom which is a Chocolate Doom 3.0.0 fork but on SDL1 and tracked music support.

 

It does come for multiple OSes though.

 

 

No go on Win 98. I just get the ''Requires a newer version of Windows'' prompt.

[Redneckerz]

5 minutes ago, braders1986 said:

No go on Win 98. I just get the ''Requires a newer version of Windows'' prompt.

I guess its compiled for newer Windows then.

 

The only other option i could give to you is Universal Doom, which is a combined binary that can run from DOS all the way up to Windows 10, using either either the DOS binary or Chocolate Doom. Quite a clever implementation, but that's not Crispy yet. Perhaps @Gibbon may lend you a hand in that one.

[Gibbon]

7 minutes ago, braders1986 said:

No go on Win 98. I just get the ''Requires a newer version of Windows'' prompt.

Drat, that would be the same as the libs I was about to send.  I made those actually for ZipDoom on my machine, so if that doesn't work, neither will mine.

[braders1986]

2 hours ago, Gibbon said:

Drat, that would be the same as the libs I was about to send.  I made those actually for ZipDoom on my machine, so if that doesn't work, neither will mine.

Damm. No worries. Appreciate the help nonetheless.

[Cilian]

Hey, is there a chance for multiple pages for saves like in dsda doom? I think it would be a really nice QOL feature when playing too many wads at once

[head_cannon]

In a thread where we were playing around assigning Duke Nukem 3D midis to Doom levels, I lamented on how vanilla Doom didn't know what to do with the loop points of several songs (causing a cut to silence & complete restart every time the song wound back around), and Xaser helpfully clarified that EMIDI support is not completely unknown - in fact the whole ZDoom family has supported it for quite some time. It's a very niche thing, but I would like to see it included in Crispy Doom since this is my primary port to play on.

[HackNeyed]

I made this a while ago for myself and thought I might as well share it with the community. :)

 

Doom2-Episodes.zip

 

This is a simple patch wad replacing the original Doom's episode graphics found in Doom 2's IWAD. It will allow Crispy-Doom to display "episodes" with big red graphic text while loading the official addons. I'm sure plenty of you could easily make this and in less time then it took me. But you probably haven't have you? So don't waste your time and use mine!

 

The graphics are not copied from the BFG Edition but created by myself using Fonts provided by Jimmy at the ZDoom forum (https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?t=33409), SLADE wad editor and the GNU Image Manipulation Tool.

 

If you only have nerve.wad or both nerve.wad and masterlevels.wad use...

"Doom2-Episodes.wad"

If you only have masterlevels.wad use...

"Doom2-Episodes-ML-Only.wad"

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by HackNeyed

[maxmanium]

14 minutes ago, HackNeyed said:

and the GNU Image Manipulation Tool.

 

Lol, why not just say GIMP?

[HackNeyed]

6 minutes ago, maxmanium said:

Lol, why not just say GIMP?

 

Because I didn't want my chained up rubber suited sub slave taking any credit.  Duh?

[Alaux]

36 minutes ago, HackNeyed said:

It will allow Crispy-Doom to display "episodes" with big red graphic text while loading the official addons.

I just wanted to mention that I think there might be a problem with this:

 

Crispy has the following code for rendering a dedicated graphic for Master Levels, in doom/m_menu.c:

if (crispy->havemaster)
{
    EpisodeMenu[EpiDef.numitems].alphaKey = 't';
    EpisodeMenu[EpiDef.numitems].alttext = "The Master Levels";
    EpiDef.numitems++;

    i = W_CheckNumForName(EpiDef.numitems == 3 ? "M_EPI3" : "M_EPI2");

    // [crispy] render the episode menu with the HUD font
    // if the graphics are not available or not from a PWAD
    if (i == -1 || W_IsIWADLump(lumpinfo[i]))
    {
        EpiDef.lumps_missing = 1;
    }
}

If I'm not wrong, the code checks for the amount of items (episodes) in the Episode select screen; if there are 2 items, Master Levels uses M_EPI2, but if there are 3 items, it uses M_EPI3 instead.

 

Based on this, I'll explicitly detail the potential problem:

Let's assume you load up Doom 2 (obviously) and have Crispy load both NRFTL and Master Levels. Doom 2 itself should always use M_EPI1, and the expansions will use M_EPI2 and M_EPI3 respectively, which is correct.

However, let's now assume that you load Master Levels but not NRFTL. Now, Crispy's using M_EPI2 for Master Levels, but the graphic reads NRFTL's title. Should work fine, but it'd be confusing.

 

There's a chance that there's some solution to this that's just not near that piece of code shown above in the source as for me to see it, and there's also a chance that this is a defined standard for handling menu graphics for the expansions. If neither of the two are the case, maybe there should be another approach to providing graphics for the expansions, preferably something that could be used flawlessly across ports, like new "M_MASTER" and "M_NRFTL" lumps. I don't think we should care about what BFG Edition does since we can't load much into it anyways and it doesn't seem to be a well-known port. Alternatively, Crispy itself could just not have the code choose between two different lumps.

 

With all that said, something tells me that there was a reason to have this do what it does. I hope Fabian can shed some light on the topic.

[HackNeyed]

14 minutes ago, Alaux said:

However, let's now assume that you load Master Levels but not NRFTL. Now, Crispy's using M_EPI2 for Master Levels, but the graphic reads NRFTL's title. Should work fine, but it'd be confusing.

 

Oh yes I think I remember seeing something about that. I actually made a second file in the zip for only Master Levels but I left the info in the included text file and out of my post. I've added it to my post. :)

Edited December 18, 2021 by HackNeyed

[chungy]

19 hours ago, HackNeyed said:

and the GNU Image Manipulation Tool.

That's my favorite image editor on the GNU Network Object Model Environment.

[Never_Again]

You guys sure have a way with basic linguistical units.

[maxmanium]

Any possibility of restoring the smooth chainsaw bobbing? It was apparently broken at some point.

[fabian]

I think you'll have to enable one of the weapon attack alignment options. It's all closely connected with each other.