Switcheroom 2 - Alpha 2

[Dylan Jarvis]

Thanks man I worked really hard on it.

[scifista42]

Unfortunately, I've spotted a DRAWSEG overflow already in the chaingun room, and a VISPLANE overflow in the corridor nearby. You will need to reduce detail amount in the map, to prevent exceeding static limits. Get Visplane Explorer for DB2/GZDoomBuilder, it will locate places with most DRAWSEGS / VISPLANEs, so that you can reduce detail visible from the problematique places. Also get Chocorenderlimits and test your map with it, it tells you VISPLANE / DRAWSEGS amounts in real time while playing.

Also, the MIDI won't play in vanilla because it's too large, limit is 64KB.

[Dylan Jarvis]

http://www.mediafire.com/download/5km6bsbo2609jw6/MAP23+Vanilla.wad

Ok I used that DoomBuilder Tool and that hallway was a nightmare but I'm guessing that the Red means bad and I dumbed it down enough that there is no red but it's still white. So I don't know anymore. I also changed the track to Orion by Metallica from

http://en.midimelody.ru/metallica/

I couldn't figure out how to get my map to play with CHOCOrender. but I think this might work let me know.

[Impboy4]

Red areas indicate areas where visplanes can overflow (this is something to avoid).

White areas indicate areas that have no overflow (this is what you want).

[Dylan Jarvis]

Ok cool. This isn't the final version I still want to touch it up and align textures etc.

[scifista42]

Tactical Stiffy said:

I couldn't figure out how to get my map to play with CHOCOrender.

Here are your options:

1. Set Chocorenderlimits as your testing port in your mapping editor (in DB2: Tools -> Game Configurations -> Testing) and use Test Mode to launch the map you're currently editing.
2. Put your wad in Chocorenderlimits' folder, open command line and write:

chocorenderlimits -file your_wad_name.wad

"Chocorenderlimits" should be the name of the executable in the folder. Your wad's name should not contain spaces, otherwise you must write it inside "quotes".

EDIT: Remember that Visplane Explorer will show you VISPLANEs + DRAWSEGS according to the currect floor/ceiling heights in the map. Thus, if you open doors in the game (or anything that affects floor/ceiling heights or visibility of areas), VISPLANE + DRAWSEGS count will probably raise higher than Visplane Explorer told you. You should take it into account while editing the map, and manually open doors inside the editor and then run Visplane Explorer to check for all these additional VISPLANEs + DRAWSEGS.

EDIT2: But I haven't found any overflows in the new version of your map, so it appears to be good.

[Dylan Jarvis]

Ok cool I've still got unfinished business with this map. I'll upload a better version soon.

[Magnusblitz]

http://speedy.sh/zHRJq/map15-as-map02-v5.wad

Updated version of MAP02 to fix the issues Cell found - unescapable pits are blocked off, and fixed the breaking of the one secret due to tagging error.

[Dylan Jarvis]

I actually tested your old map and I ran into that same error on the elevator. Because I went back to find the rest of the secrets and I had the same issue thanks for the fix. Great map, better than the original IMO.

[scifista42]

If I count Tactical Stiffy's MAP23 and my MAP26 as final ones, the only map left is The Chasm layout in City style. Yay, I imagine that would be hard to do well, IMO the layout sucks. Still, although it's already presented in the OP, I feel a need to put a direct request: Does anyone volunteer to make it? :)

[cannonball]

Joe Ilya volunteered a while back to do it, I have completed an attempt myself for this slot but as Joe actually mentioned something on this thread I decided to hold my entry back and allow him to complete whatever plan he had for the slot as I felt that would be fairer instead of being a ninja about it.

[scifista42]

Either 1 or 2 maps are still better than 0. I'd like to take a look at your map.

[Dylan Jarvis]

The chasm would be interesting to see as a city map but the narrow ledge walking is going to be tricky to make lol.

[cannonball]

Well okay, here is a first draft at least which is only UV designed at the moment.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/hbs5gi0lb4s40wg/Canal.wad

The layout and progression are essentially the same though there are differences in how some areas are reached etc. There is a fight near the end which might be too harsh at the moment, though I have beaten it without finding any of the secrets. The difficulty comes from the monster placement rather than the narrow walkways found in the chasm, though there are a few precarious spots.

[scifista42]

I liked it, maybe the blue key building's indoor would be altered (not necessarily changed to a maze, but still try to be closer to The Chasm's version), obviously needs finishing (blue door wasn't marked etc).

[scifista42]

Cannonball sent me his map via PM yesterday. It was the last map I was waiting for. Now we have all 32!

I have compiled an ALPHA RELEASE and playtesting may begin!

Check the OP for download, details, screenshots and more!

[Degree23]

Great work on getting enough maps together. I loved the first Switcheroom and I am very much looking forward to playing this and seeing how it's turned out.

[joe-ilya]

MAP01

The lifts should be shorter since the buttons to activate them are repeating up the wall and the long lifts are too lengthy anyways. The map also needs a bit more shells and the IOS has wierd triggering, you have to shoot barrels instead of just a button or something that requires one shot of a pistol, the switch should be visible if that's what you'll do.

MAP02

The imps in the 32x32 cages that you have to open each , it should be made where opening just one cage opens them all, make it a switch or a trap.
The yellow bars should be openable once without locking, it gets old when you have to open both of them each time you pass, make them open both at once when you open just one.
There are two green armors in the level, one of the should be replaced with a group of armor bonuses.
The revenants at the exit should be replaced with something earlier as it's MAP02 after all, they could be demons or spectres or something else.

Tutti-fruity all over these stairs:


MAP04



MAP05

Non-threatning pinkies:


MAP06

HOM and wall to the left doesn't fit the scenery, there isn't even any marble in the map, just this.



Tutti-fruity all over the step:

[Magnusblitz]

joe-ilya said:

The imps in the 32x32 cages that you have to open each , it should be made where opening just one cage opens them all, make it a switch or a trap.

Originally there were no imp cage doors at all, I threw them in after finding large amounts of visplane overflow in the outdoor area. So having them open all at once could be problematic. At this point I'll probably just leave it as is - it's not really designed as a trap, just a way for the player to clear out the imp cubbyholes.

The yellow bars should be openable once without locking, it gets old when you have to open both of them each time you pass, make them open both at once when you open just one.

Good idea.

There are two green armors in the level, one of the should be replaced with a group of armor bonuses.

Not really concerned about this, this map is pretty heavy in hitscanners which necessitates armor. Maybe I'll remove the one at the top of the circular staircase on UV only and leave it on other difficulty levels.

The revenants at the exit should be replaced with something earlier as it's MAP02 after all, they could be demons or spectres or something else.

Scifista suggested the same thing, and I rejected it then too. The revenant ambush is purposeful - the player will be surprised by it (spooky skeletons in MAP02!?) and they're actually threatening, unlike demons/spectres. I want a last little spike at the end.

Tutti-fruity all over these stairs

I've always had trouble with areas like that (where the same sector is both a ceiling overhang, and then the floor is raised as a step with a non-128 high step texture). Can never remember the proper alignment/pegging options to get it to work, but I'll try to figure it out again.

joe-ilya said:

MAP04
(screenshot of flying shells)

Thanks, will fix.

[joe-ilya]

Magnusblitz said:

Scifista suggested the same thing, and I rejected it then too. The revenant ambush is purposeful - the player will be surprised by it (spooky skeletons in MAP02!?) and they're actually threatening, unlike demons/spectres. I want a last little spike at the end.

Chaingunners could do the trick, MAP03 waving "hello" with chaingunners should be a good idea.

MAP07

Needs more shells and a chaingun earlier, I had to shoot a chaingunner with a pistol when I ran out of shells but he didn't get the pain chances and I didn't have cover and I ended up shooting him 2 times before he killed me. The orderly rising imps should be fewer, it's not fun to shoot 20 imps with a regular shotgun, 10 imps would feel less of a waste of time and in general I think there should be fewer monsters in the places where there are a lot before you get the SSG, except for the ones outside, I like hiding from them, feels like a mission.

And the shotgun at the start should be more obvious.

EDIT:Nevermind, I took a shitty route, took a different one and things went more balanced.

[scifista42]

Magnusblitz said:

(tutti-frutti stairs) I've always had trouble with areas like that (where the same sector is both a ceiling overhang, and then the floor is raised as a step with a non-128 high step texture). Can never remember the proper alignment/pegging options to get it to work, but I'll try to figure it out again.

The formula is: No lower-unpegging, and zero Y offsets.

Well, the Y offsets don't have to be exactly zero, but they shouldn't be negative, and positive Y offsets are tolerable only as long as they're not greater than the texture's height minus the particular step's height. The important thing is, you must prevent the texture from trying to tile vertically. Example:

Height of texture "STEP1": 16
Height of a step in a map: 8
Maximum allowed Y offset: (16 - 8) = 8

[tourniquet]

Holy moly Alpha release?!, haven't checked this thread since ages and this is truly a surprise. Not sure if i'll be able to help a lot with playtesting, Nova2 bug fixing will be my prioity during the next few weeks but i'll try to blaze through some maps whenever i have a spare minute.

[Magnusblitz]

Quickfix map uploads:

http://speedy.sh/YmUcj/map15-as-map02-v5.wad
- Made yellow door bars open together
- Fixed tutti-fruiti on outside step

http://speedy.sh/C6HXg/map22-as-map04-v2.wad
- Moved shells so they're not floating

(Also, I think you okay'd Coolant Zone for MAP02's name?)

[joe-ilya]

MAP08

This needs an SSG at the start and more ammo.

[Degree23]

I'm gonna go through this in Zandronum on UV continuously, mainly to see what the ammo situation is like as it's possibly something that not every considered when making their individual map. (Naturally, of course, as you can't know what the previous maps were going to be!) It's possible some weapon/ammo carryover may totally wreck some maps. Unless I comment otherwise, I will have found all secrets and killed everyone.

Map 1: It could use 4 more Shells, as to UV-Max probably requires pistol shooting a few of the caged Imps, but otherwise it seemed good. The RL and layout makes it pretty obvious you should shoot into the IoS area.

Map 2: I agree with the sentiments that the Revenants at the end feel out of place. This map introduces Cacodemons, Hell Knights and Revenants and it's only the second map. I'd be inclined to move the HK near the exit area to the exit in place of the Revenants. Either way I do feel the Revenants need to disappear from the map. The yellow bars should probably also stay open once you've opened them as I don't think they serve much of a purpose having to be reopened. You're not ambushed or anything in that area so there's no reason to be closed in. I found it weird that it was the Backpack that triggered the secret on the way to the RL. I actually didn't see it there at all until I realised I hadn't had the secret found message. I would make sector 86 the secret.

Map 3: The section at the yellow key feels very difficult for only the third map. The section with the blue and red keys doesn't look... quite right. The height variations of the various pillars just don't really seem to work together for some reason, though maybe it's just me. I think it was the fact most of them are rectangular and 2 different heights just looks a little weird in the context. I don't know if I would change much of it though because I'm sure many others like it. One thing I would change, however, is that sector 107 should really rise to the height of sector 100. It's no problem to make the step across, but it didn't feel right.

Map 4: The Chaingunners in sector 143 don't wake up when you fire after hitting the switch to open it. (Only 1 of them saw me, so I killed him, but the other didn't wake) The escape from the secret at sector 214 wasn't immediately obvious to me; I ran back to the way I came in only to find I couldn't escape that way.

The ammo balance for Map 3 is quite tricky I think. There are quite a few Rockets on that map due to the enemy count, but if you have the SSG then you don't really need it. At the end of Map 4 I currently have 25 ammo for the RL, which is quite a lot to be carrying at this early point in the WAD. Depending what the rest of the maps in this first section are like, it may be worth moving it a few maps later.

Will continue my playthrough soon. Highly enjoyable so far!

[Magnusblitz]

degree23 said:

Map 2: I agree with the sentiments that the Revenants at the end feel out of place. This map introduces Cacodemons, Hell Knights and Revenants and it's only the second map. I'd be inclined to move the HK near the exit area to the exit in place of the Revenants. Either way I do feel the Revenants need to disappear from the map.

Never thought a pair of revenants would be so controversial, heh. In any event, I'm not really concerned with "oh but its only the second map," despite vanilla compatibility and obvious IWAD basis its not a DTWID-style mapset; I don't feel the need to stick with the "standard" ramp-up. This doesn't mean I'm totally going to go off the rails, either, it's still part of a whole mapset that many will play continuously. But the revenants provide the sharp surprise spike I wanted at the end of the map that another monster type wouldn't do (and without being ridiculous like a cyberdemon or something).

I found it weird that it was the Backpack that triggered the secret on the way to the RL. I actually didn't see it there at all until I realised I hadn't had the secret found message. I would make sector 86 the secret.

Truth be told the backpack was supposed to be the secret and the RL was put up there as an afterthought; not sure which players find to be more 'important'. If not getting the secret found message made you realized you missed the backpack maybe it's good to keep it that way? I could relocate the backpack, I suppose, to be more in the middle of the obvious path.

Map 4: The Chaingunners in sector 143 don't wake up when you fire after hitting the switch to open it. (Only 1 of them saw me, so I killed him, but the other didn't wake)

This is intended... the second one is supposed to sort of catch the player off guard if they don't notice him. If others think it feels weird or ineffective though I'll change it.

The escape from the secret at sector 214 wasn't immediately obvious to me; I ran back to the way I came in only to find I couldn't escape that way.

Now that I think about it is a little weird, I suppose I just wanted a quicker way for the player to get out. Doesn't seem gamebreaking though... I'll take more thoughts on it.

[Dylan Jarvis]

Dang I need to come up with a name for my map. I'll think about it while I'm at work tomorrow.

[Fonze]

Hell I'll throw down on some playtesting for you scifista since you've helped me a lot already, it's the least I can do.

That said, it's gonna be a bit before I get to this, but I'll post at least a short review on each map as I play through em :)

[scifista42]

Magnusblitz said:

"oh but its only the second map,"

I would like to put attention to the idea of changing map order, as I said in the OP. I would like to hear people's opinions and suggestions about it. IMO, the current MAP02 could easily become a later map, due to its size and complexity, and also usage of a few mid-tier monster types.

[joe-ilya]

MAP05

The MIDI is a lullaby, which doesn't fit.

MAP09

Insane, I barely have any shells, health. A chaingun with the shotgun at the start would help balance the map, because pistol shooting a shotgunner or a chaingunner for the weapon costs 80 HP especially when there's no cover and you're angled from everywhere too.

MAP10

The starting step has tutti-fruity.
Way too much health, I ended up not taking the soulsphere and the lots of health, you could put something else, an invisibility or something that isn't health.