Extremely large detailed maps

[pcorf]

The Great Urban battle is a city map I released about a year ago with over 20,000 linedefs. There are over 1,000 monsters.

http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?file=levels/doom2/Ports/p-r/pc_urban.zip

[Vorpal]

Ooh urban maps

[cortlong50]

ive been playing all sorts of packs lately and hav enoticed like...theres space levels...theres medieval levels...theres base levels and way too many hell levels (i hate em).
There are not enough city levels...and i dont know why, it seems as easy as any other pack.

anyway, i thought the way hellbound kicked off was pretty righteous...its not huge but the detail is staggering.

also theres that dawn of reality pack thats based off a city in poland or something. i had a really good time murdering my way out of that one. google "dawn of reality doom" youll find it.

and why does nobody talk about this pack...ever. THE ULTIMATE TORMENT AND TORTURE is seriously one of the gnarliest most breathtaking map packs ive ever played. humongous...artistic....way gritty and gross looking. you should probably play that.

[Soundblock]

General Rainbow Bacon said:

Could someone post links to the largest/most detailed maps they know of, I'm just curious as to how many maps boast 10000+ linedefs.

Recently made a big map, looks like it clocks in at just under 40k linedefs.

[Ed]

Putrefier had some 20,927 linedefs and Valhalla had 35,488. Neither of which I would call gigantic, but they're certainly packing some linedef heat. </shameless_plug>

[dg93]

pcorf said:

The Great Urban battle is a city map I released about a year ago with over 20,000 linedefs. There are over 1,000 monsters.

http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?file=levels/doom2/Ports/p-r/pc_urban.zip

pcorf, this map is AMAZING.... Holy tits, the music is great. MAP01 was very challenging and I am determined to actually beating the level one day. It is very similar to Doomkid's MAP16 from Revenge Of The 90's.wad, but like 4 x's bigger. I gave it 5 stars on idgames. It's a must have for everyone's Doom 2 wad collection.

[Afterglow]

My unfinished ZDoom level is currently at 28,370 linedefs. :(

[jmickle66666666]

i wonder why it's unfinished...

[Mechadon]

Ribbiks said:

surprised no one mentioned vela pax yet.

Probably because its not technically released yet, so I assume not many people have played the maps yet (the beta is still available, but its old and cruddy). But yea, if you want to see what a lack of discipline in mapping design mixed in with a bit of insanity looks like, it might look a bit like this.

MAP01 is currently the largest map in terms of sidedefs, clocking in at 111138 sides.

Gez said:

"Dawn of Reality" maybe?

Aha, yes I believe that was the map I was thinking of. Thanks Gez :)

[Maes]

cortlong50 said:

There are not enough city levels...and i dont know why, it seems as easy as any other pack.

You should read my review of Dawn Of Reality, I think I explain it pretty explicitly there. In general, "city levels" tend to fall into the trap of poor gameplay, though in theory it sounds awesome to be battling monsters house-to-house, on the street etc., right? Yet in practice an urban setting in Doom almost always ends detracting from it. Even if you think about the most characteristic aspects of urban combat, like e.g. barricading yourself in, hiding in alleys, "hitting and running" etc., all of them tend work better in NON-urban maps, aka in maps without a bunch of boxes scattered all around.

[Terminus]

gggmork said:

kyka mea culpa I think.

Oh man, I remember playing the map07 that was posted around here back then. That was an amazing map.
I wonder if it's possible to get the other ones? I heard maps 01 to 04 were finished, but they seem nowhere to be found. I'd love to try those out, even if they're at an early (cancelled?) stage.

[Avoozl]

5till L1 Complex and Doxylamine Moon: Overdose would probably count.

[Devalaous]

Ven said:

Oh man, I remember playing the map07 that was posted around here back then. That was an amazing map.
I wonder if it's possible to get the other ones? I heard maps 01 to 04 were finished, but they seem nowhere to be found. I'd love to try those out, even if they're at an early (cancelled?) stage.

Still in development.

[invictius]

See my thread on this topic here http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/60473-largest-single-map/

I think mindfuck.wad is the longest in terms of how long it takes to complete, a couple of people on here took well over an hour.

[Chopkinsca]

Most of my maps are quite large and detailed.

[punnyone]

With the ever growing supply of community projects, I'm a bit disappointed that nobody's started one which aims to feature all large-scale maps. I'm not talking about planisphere 2-sized levels, but more along the lines of Eternal Doom or some of Alien Vendetta's larger maps, with an aim at limit removing compatibility.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

^You got anything done that's not already in the archive?

[Phobus]

pizzabob18 said:

With the ever growing supply of community projects, I'm a bit disappointed that nobody's started one which aims to feature all large-scale maps. I'm not talking about planisphere 2-sized levels, but more along the lines of Eternal Doom or some of Alien Vendetta's larger maps, with an aim at limit removing compatibility.

Interesting idea, but definitely one that'd take a very long time to see through to completion. Community Chests 3 and 4 leaned this way and that caused pretty major delays and problems.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

Well, pizzabob go ahead and start it up and see what happens. Although I love huge maps, 32 in a row might make my head implode.

[mouldy]

What is the actual spatial size limit of a doom map and what would it equate to in terms of real world distances?

[invictius]

mouldy said:

What is the actual spatial size limit of a doom map and what would it equate to in terms of real world distances?

32768 sectors I think... as for real world distances, doomguy is 64 units tall, so let's say 6 feet... not sure how to measure units horizontally.

[Gez]

mouldy said:

What is the actual spatial size limit of a doom map

Technically, the coordinates used for things and vertices range between 32767 and -32767. (They are in 16.16 fixed point format, so it's actually between 2147483647/65536 and -2147483648/65536.)

However, distances between points are measured by the engine in that same format as well, and since negative distances do not make sense, you should not have points placed more than 32767 map units apart.

To be safe, and since some parts of the code (especially in ports) may use accurate distance measures instead of being lazy and taking the greater of the X-axis distance and Y-axis distance (the reason behind Doom's square-shaped explosions), you'll want 32767 map units to be the largest possible diagonal distance. So 32767/sqrt(2): about 23 173 map units to the side.

So basically, make a 20K units by 20K units square, and put all your map in it.

mouldy said:

what would it equate to in terms of real world distances?

If you eyeball one horizontal map unit to be one inch (making a 64x64 tile slightly above 2ftx2ft in size), then that's 500 meters x 500 meters to place your buildings. That's 25 hectares, or 60 acres.

[TimeOfDeath]

invictius said:

See my thread on this topic here http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/60473-largest-single-map/

I think mindfuck.wad is the longest in terms of how long it takes to complete, a couple of people on here took well over an hour.

The topic you linked to shows maps that take longer to complete.

[mouldy]

Gez said:

If you eyeball one horizontal map unit to be one inch (making a 64x64 tile slightly above 2ftx2ft in size), then that's 500 meters x 500 meters to place your buildings. That's 25 hectares, or 60 acres.

If a map unit was one inch then wouldn't 64 of them be over 5ft?

[Gez]

Yeah, 5ft square, like in D&D. Sorry for the mistake.

20000 inches is still about 500 meters. (508 meters, to be precise.)

[mouldy]

Cool, so an entire megawad could theoretically cover 8 square kilometers. Its good to know these things

[Scuba Steve]

I always liked Hoover Dam.

[machoman127]

Scuba Steve said:

I always liked Hoover Dam.

Me too -- what a great 'blast from the past'! The first time I played
it I almost crapped myself when those cacos appeared over the dam.

[machoman127]

pcorf said:

The Great Urban battle is a city map I released about a year ago with over 20,000 linedefs. There are over 1,000 monsters.

http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?file=levels/doom2/Ports/p-r/pc_urban.zip

Wow pcorf, this map RULES!! Perfect run 'n gun, don't know if I ever
would have found the secret exit without the clue. Missed 1 secret
area, left 3 survivors.

[cortlong50]

Maes said:

You should read my review of Dawn Of Reality, I think I explain it pretty explicitly there. In general, "city levels" tend to fall into the trap of poor gameplay, though in theory it sounds awesome to be battling monsters house-to-house, on the street etc., right? Yet in practice an urban setting in Doom almost always ends detracting from it. Even if you think about the most characteristic aspects of urban combat, like e.g. barricading yourself in, hiding in alleys, "hitting and running" etc., all of them tend work better in NON-urban maps, aka in maps without a bunch of boxes scattered all around.

i actually noticed that too after a real actual play through on DOR...it just doesn feel right and at some point theres either not enough action or all the monsters converge into one area and leave the rest of the map empty and boring...i wish someone could make a ity themed mappack...so youre directed, but youre int he ity...im atually not a fan of giant maps as muh as i used to be...i like small ondensed well made maps. after i played back to basics i was like "wait...this is awesome".