The DWmegawad Club plays: Whitemare 2

[dobu gabu maru]

SteveD said:

Yes, I'd love to see you in action sometime, whenever it is that you find the proper map. I'm still boggled that you make slaughtermaps when you say you're an "average" player. I'd never attempt your map The Manifold Fever on UV. That would be a tremendous number of saves -- and deaths! ;D How do you do it?

I don't think I've maxed Manifold yet; I know it's doable since there's piles of ammo but I've never been fond enough of the map to slog through all the imps and cacos. Since you wanted to see my slaughter skills, I recorded a -cl9 max demo on HMP for my map The Stone Spinneret (MAP11) of MAYhem 2013 (UV is too demanding without saves). Hopefully this gives you a good insight into my playstyle--I'm pretty unfocused and like to run around erratically, especially if I know the area. I forgot a handful of nasty things I put in there on HMP so I may run into a lot of mastermind butts in the demo.

On to Whitemare 2

MAP04: A surprisingly big map this early on. There’s a pretty good mixture of perched enemies this time around to harass you, putting the triplicate of revenants in MAP03 to shame. Nothing too tricky however thanks to some generous health and armor. I hope we get some nice indoor areas soon as the open expanses aren’t exactly my thing.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 05 -- The Lost Keep - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets
After the spectacle of the damned Caverns, we now return to a much more humble offering. While basic in design and very obviously a speedmap, this is nevertheless a much more 'complete' offering than map 01 or especially map 02; indeed, of all the maps up to this point, this is the one that feels the most like a 'normal' map. In that sense, there is no particular gimmick or capital-C Concept at work here; you kill a few things, you get a couple of keys (both of which are protected by some predictable fights) and then you move on to the exit area. Combat is largely perfunctory outside of the two key battles and perhaps the final trick near the exit. Of the few major fights, the one that I felt worked best was the group of enemy reinforcements that teleports into the main yard when you flip the switch that makes the blue key accessible; they quickly trap you in the long corridor unless you have some inkling (or foreknowledge) that they're going to appear, and while this battle tends to mainly involve just chokepointing the doorway, it feels like a reasonable attempt to stop you given the level's relatively tight ammo balance. On the downside, there are several instances of monsters insta-popping or fast-raising out of floors in this one (not even snow or ice textures, but actual worked stone floors); other than a certain surprise mancubus none of these are particularly effective from a gameplay standpoint, and so mostly only serve to hamper the aesthetic slightly.

On the topic of aesthetics, what we see here is serviceable--very reasonable for a speedmap--but that's about it. The Keep, while not very keeplike, has at least one memorable (if silly) sight in the form of the strange 'face' wall/alcove that houses the switch lowering the red key's pillar (or maybe that's just the gestalt effect at work, hell). The initial outdoor area is probably the best-looking segment, although the snowy bush/tree midtextures are set up too close/in such a way that their paperthin aspect is very apparent. The most protected area of the Keep is just a tiny teleporter booth that apparently leads to some kind of pocket of altered reality, a run of short, railed causeways floating in an otherwise empty pocket of sky. Despite the unusual appearance gameplay here is still very rote, although I suppose there's some real potential for homing missiles from the last group of revenants to be problematic if they're allowed to launch too many.

Pretty basic stuff. More engaging than the earliest maps for sure, but probably going to be rather difficult to remember much about once we're past it.

[Tristan]

MAP05 - Lost Keep - Dant3
| Kills: 72/77 | Items: 24/25 | Secrets: 1/1 | Time: 05:52 | Deaths: 0 |

I dunno about this one. The exit area has some pretty bad sky-tiling issues and stand in the right place, you can even see a revenant's head appearing from the final illusio pit.
Map was just kind of dull to be honest but had some decent visuals in places.
5/10

[Steve D]

dobu gabu maru said:

Since you wanted to see my slaughter skills, I recorded a -cl9 max demo on HMP for my map The Stone Spinneret (MAP11) of MAYhem 2013 (UV is too demanding without saves). Hopefully this gives you a good insight into my playstyle--I'm pretty unfocused and like to run around erratically, especially if I know the area. I forgot a handful of nasty things I put in there on HMP so I may run into a lot of mastermind butts in the demo.

Uhm . . . gulp! I'm really glad I pestered you about this because your map sets an intimidating standard of Doom beauty, and I was really happy to see that. Damn near 3,000 sectors, and while I can see a lot of copy/paste, that's fine with me. You still had to make the original structures with the extreme level of artistry on display here. Just awesome texture matching and color schemes, really fabulous work, especially that center arena. Watching another keyboarder blitz through ended up as icing on the cake. The main thing is that I may never have seen this map otherwise, and now I want to play it as soon as I build up enough testosterone. ;D

Also, when we next think about an episodes month, I will nominate Mayhem 2013. Count on it!

BTW, I watched 2 gggmork FDAs, one on his own Lazy Copy Paste map, and happily enough, one on my first Amiga Demo Party map. Many deaths = Happy SteveD. :D

Obligatory "back on topic aside" -- I'll be posting on Map05 of Whitemare 2 in a few hours. ;)

[MegaTurtleRex]

Cool thread idea, I'd like to try do this. I'm used to Brutal Doom lately, tempted to use it but not sure if it's frowned on in here so I'll go vanilla HMP :O


MAP01: I read the Readme and I love the story, monsters have stolen winter lol. I dunno why but it's really psyched me up. Nice relaxing little map. I like the little fort in the snow thing, and I got the chaingun from those campers before leaving.

MAP02: Mancubus surprised me but he also didn't shoot at me. Not sure what happened to him but he dumbed out. Very small map but it looked nice :)

MAP03: This map was great! It has a really epic song, it's full of hope that winter can be saved XD The platforming was really enjoyable, never played a Doom map with platforming like it before (though I'm relatively new to custom maps). The two skeleton jerks thought they were the kings of that tiny mountain. I thought they were the kings too but there was a Hell Knight in charge inside.

The way this map concludes is really great, press a big blue pole and then watch the gigantic gate slowly lower, like something out of a Tolkien-esque fantasy lol. Might as well finish here for today on a high.

[mouldy]

Map05 - “Lost Keep by Dant3

This feels more like a traditional doom map, with the good old key hunting and episodic fighting in some kind of demonic ice fortress. Lots of push-switch-to-activate-battle, very pleasant looking design throughout. The final area has a very visiable non-tiling sky which might irk some people, but i think it gets away with it by looking vaguely like the sky is reflecting in a sea perhaps. I didn't die on this one though I came close now and then, not a tough challenge but perfectly fine for this early in the wad.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP05 Lost Keep

Never heard of Dant3. At least this one was maxable and more "down-to-earth" than the previous one. I had some fun chainsawing revenants and using infighting at the red key and after the blue key (the stuff before that was a bit grinding). Still a pretty quick affair though. The revenant/shotgun guy combinations at the sky-tiling sections are the most fruitful of encounters. Still no other player starts :/.

[dobu gabu maru]

SteveD said:

Also, when we next think about an episodes month, I will nominate Mayhem 2013. Count on it!

Thanks a bunch for the kind words; just remember that MAYhem 2013 is a wildly mixed bag (due to the time constraint & 2 monster nature of it), so it may not be suited for the club.

MegaTurtleRex said:

I'm used to Brutal Doom lately, tempted to use it but not sure if it's frowned on in here.

Others may frown on it but you're definitely free to play whichever way you like as long as it's the same pwad.

MAP05: My prayers have been answered! Inside this insidious keep are some pretty evil traps thanks to the scant amount of ammunition you’re given, made more lethal since some foolish dodging early on reduced me to 23% before I even grabbed hold of the shotgun. Luckily I didn’t shake hands with death for the whole map, though I had to run from the blue key battle and final trap since I wanted to save my hide over the boosting monster kill count. Good, fun stuff, made even more impressive since it was from a speedmapping contest.

[Veinen]

Demos for maps 04 and 05.

Map04: Caverns of The Damned by Cybermind

Ugh, didn't really like this. Immediately we're greeted with sniper Chaingunners, a PE with no really effective means to deal with him and chainsawing Spectres; what an amazing first impression it is. The cavern itself is, well cavernous, but doesn't look very spectacular to me. The brief glimpse of the outside world shows a lot more promise but in reality you're confined to a tiny linear path all the way to the top. More sniper enemies are introduced and now in almost-unreachable places, a design trait I have little love for. There's nothing to see in the first outside platform though, so back into the dark we go. The second cavern is a more impressive looking one and the sniper enemies are projectile based so it isn't that bad. But sadly the combat is a tedious chore once the Imps on the walkway are eliminated and on top of that it seemed that the teleport closet isn't very effective since monsters kept popping in much after the initial horde was dealt with. The ascension is not much to talk about, taking out the Barons under a light Rev missile/Caco projectile rain is somewhat interesting though.

I actually think this map may just be maxable since I got 94% of kills, had some leftover ammo and I felt like I wasted a lot of rockets and shells when watching the demo. Still, who the fuck would even bother with all those far-away enemies since a few missed rockets could mean instant restart due to no other weapons being able to reach them. Suffice to say I'm not a fan of this kind of design. As for the demo, I don't even know what that is supposed to be. Certainly not a full FDA because it looks like I know the start a bit. Must be that I made it to the second cavern in my first attempt, then quit and recorded this on the next attempt later.

Map05: Lost Keep by Dant3

Now this, on the other hand, I did quite like. It's short and simple, like a true speedmap, but definitely looks good and features a more standard approach on gameplay. Combat is very standard indeed, a few bite-sized teleport "hordes" and otherwise your usual small-time opposition scattered all over the place. The RK fight and the final battle with some Revs and hitscanners were probably the highlights regarding combat. The ending I took is in the wtf just happened -category, the other tele is definitely the healthier choice but thankfully both roads take you to the next map. Not much else to say really, a fine map for an early mapslot and certainly the best one yet.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP04: Caverns of the Damned
47% kills, 0/2 secrets

Yeah, not fan either. The start wasn't too bad - felt a bit unfair at first with the chaingunners and PE so far away (had about 10 lost souls spawned by the time I got to it), but was able to snipe my way through it with the chaingun no problem. When I got outside though, I kinda gave up at the sight of so many monsters and just ran past the rest, only killing the imps inside the lava cavern and nothing else beyond the odd revenant blocking the staircase. Far-away enemies are one of my least favorite things about Doom, especially when they're big buff monsters like barons and revenants and cacodemons.

MAP05: Lost Keep
94% kills, 1/1 secret

Thankfully, this map was the opposite. Nice little typical Doom map with a couple of keys to collect. Felt the ammo pinch quite a bit, I usually don't like getting "forced" into using plasma ammo just because I'm out of everything else, but it's not a big deal given the small map size. Not a fan of the "enemies suddenly appearing out of the ground" trick, just feels out-of-place. And that 'wrong' ending with the Cyberdemons, WTF.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 06 -- Vida Rota - 100% Kills / No secrets
This one takes place in a frozen mountain pass which the demons have used to set up a killzone--both a hotly-contested and a fairly effective one, too, judging by all of the gruesome marine and demon remains strewn about even before our marine arrives. Like map 04, the visual fidelity of this offering is a step or two above the other maps around it; the natural terrain is simulated quite reasonably given idtech 1's capabilities, interesting that a lot of the best-looking stuff in both this WAD and the original Whitemare seems to be the type of thing that plays against the engine's strengths somewhat. The most immediately noticeable aspect of the visuals is that everything is rather uniformly dark (presumably this is a nocturnal scene, that blue Eternal Doom sky works decently well for any time of day); some will probably find this bothersome, but I'm the guy always saying 'this would look better if it were darker', so suffice to say it doesn't bother me at all. Texture selection is limited but tasteful, with 99% of the terrain made from a trampled/packed snow flat, ice-rimed granite, and a few quirky pillars of greenery that appear to use the hedgerow texture from Blood. There are quite a few decorative props to add interest, as well--apart from the aforementioned gibs/corpses, there are quite a lot of barren trees and a smattering of all three colors of firestick. And I do mean 'smattering'; my main criticism of the map's aesthetic is probably that it might be a little too visually busy given its compact build; just sticking to one color of torch (or using fewer torches in general) probably would have smoothed this over fairly well.

The action gets off to a fast start--there's a pinky demon within fondling distance as soon as the screen clears, and an SSG on a body a mere step further away--but it's not a particularly involved combat engagement, as the intensity tends to fall off sharply as soon as you've killed the ground-level enemies, which tends to happen pretty rapidly as none of them are deaf, and hence they all funnel towards you as soon as you make a sound (that is, when they're not too busy violently bickering amongst themselves). There are a decent number of enemies with powerful attacks up in the hills (revenants, chaingunners, etc.), it's true, but the topography of the pass prevents many of them from being able to target you simultaneously at any given point, and a few of them from ever really being able to effectively target you at all. Compounding this, I feel that the map has something of an anticlimax problem--it really feels like you should get a fresh wave of baddies to kill after activating the last of the three satyr-slabs (if not sooner), but no dice.

Fairly nice-looking map, but plays rather flatly, once again rather speedmap-ish in that regard.

[Steve D]

dobu gabu maru said:

Thanks a bunch for the kind words; just remember that MAYhem 2013 is a wildly mixed bag (due to the time constraint & 2 monster nature of it), so it may not be suited for the club.

Point taken about the "wildly mixed bag" of Mayhem 2013, but without meaning to insult anyone, we're currently playing Whitemare 2, thus far a mixed bag indeed.

Speaking of which . . .

Map05 - Lost Keep by Dant3 - Kills - 100%, Secrets - uh, forgot. Death Count - 2

I, too, have never heard of Dant3, but allow me to say, well met in Whitemare 2. I found this to be an enjoyable map apart from the obnoxious monsters rising from solid floors issue. I'm sorta glad I played continuous, even though I entered the map at 46% health thanks to the drubbing I took in Map04, and as a result died 3 times before I could even save a game! :D Those deaths aren't counted because I only count from the beginning of play in the new map, not from any misfortune resulting from exiting the previous map.

Once I managed a successful save, I played the map the next day and generally enjoyed it. I loved the BGM, maybe the best one yet, and I thought the architecture and texturing were effective and good-looking.

One benefit from continuous play is that I didn't suffer any ammo shortages. Based on the previous Whitemare, and Epic 2 as well, I expected Russian ammo frustration, thus the choice to play continuous.

The fight design was good, I thought, with some nasty use of Revenants. My first death resulted from a botched battle at the red key trap, and came via Revvie rocket. My second death was the bullshit one with the Cybs, which caused me to be immediately bitten to death in the next map. Good thing I play with frequent save/reload. :D

So all in all a good, solid map. Well done, Dant3!

[Magnusblitz]

Yeah, I actually vastly prefer "mixed bags," both in terms of quality (it's fun to review bad maps, but fun to play good ones), and varied authorship (same-author WADs can tend to get a little repetitive after awhile).

[Steve D]

And for icing on the cake, Mayhem 2013 has a Magnus map, something I haven't experienced, which reminds me, maybe Switcheroom should find its way into the rotation as well.

[MegaTurtleRex]

dobu gabu maru said:

Others may frown on it but you're definitely free to play whichever way you like as long as it's the same pwad.

Sweet, though now that I have started I admit I kind of like vanilla Doom's pace so I might as well run through it.

MAP04: This map was so cool, I wasn't expecting the huge vista after that cave intro. I barely made it through the exit, I had 1 HP :O

MAP05: Because of the 1 HP I had to pistol start this one. Smaller but I love the snow-keep theme. Not much ammo and some well-thought out engagements. I tried finishing without saves but I had to save for the last encounter with the skeletons and shotgunners.

Nice music in both of the maps, I'm really liking this megawad.

[Tristan]

MAP06: Vida Rota - Devived
| Kills: 44/44 | Items: 22/22 | Secrets: 0/0 | Time: 03:52 | Deaths: 0 |

I had this with cannonball's D2INO map and CC4 MAP08 too, my playing becomes twice as agressive when Quad Machine is the BGM. I went on a rampage, destroying everything I saw. Then I got lost because it was just slightly too dark. Possibly could've benefited from bringing the brightness up by one level, but I'm not going to complain about that too much. Aside from getting lost trying to find switches and keys, this level was damn fun, 80% of which comes down to the music choice rather than the map itself. Regardless, I enjoyed this level. Great stuff.
9/10

[NuMetalManiak]

Upon further review, I found out that the following maps have extra player starts: MAP06, MAP10, MAP11, MAP16, MAP18, MAP20, MAP21, MAP24, MAP25, MAP27, MAP28, and MAP30. So now I'll stop complaining about lack of coop starts for the other maps.

MAP06 Vida Rota

FINALLY! A map where I can use a bot! Somebody did put some other player starts! Sven joined the game and actually helped me out a bit. I don't know who [BoMF]Devived is though.

Quick n' dirty map here, as if the Quad Machine music was enough to prove that point. Just grab three color keys, and press three color switches, then exit. Under fire from just about everything too. It's fun. Sven distracted some guys while I picked up the keys; he died a few times doing that though.

[mouldy]

Map06 - "Vida Rota" by [BoMF]Devived

This was an interesting map to pistol start, its difficulty stemming mainly from the lighting being too dark to see the monsters properly, and the music being too loud to hear them shooting at you (i couldn't bring myself to turn it down though). Jumping in with both feet gives you a whole host of opposition and its hard to decide which threat to deal with first (after you figure ut where the threat is actually coming from). I died a few times getting the hang of the monster placement, the deadliest being hitscanners the the dark distance and murky cliffs above you. Once you have cleared out the enemies its seems there are no more surprises, so its basically a single battle zone with keys to block your exit. I liked the look of it, I always think darkness is a great way to add atmosphere to a map and reduce lego-land syndrome, though invisible chaingunners are quite a pain.

[Salt-Man Z]

MAP05: Lost Keep
73/77 kills | 1/1 secrets | 25/25 items | 9:31
(GZDoom/HMP/continuous/keyboard)

A fun little romp. I tell you, though, I must have gotten rusty or something because I could not dodge a fireball or rocket worth a crap today. Not a fan of not being able to backtrack in a map (for instance, being able to pick up all that shotgun ammo from the initial ledge later.) And what was with the ending? The wrong teleporter sends you to a room with 4 cyberdemons, but then the map completes a fraction of a second later? Oh yeah, funny thing: that mancubus at the end of the hall in front of the switch? I would run toward the switch and he'd pop up underneath me. Also, I should say I absolutely loved the music here.

MAP06: Vida Rota
60/60 kills | 0/0 secrets | 22/22 items | 7:03
(GZDoom/HMP/continuous/keyboard)

One ugly map. The textures and all the things everywhere were just...yuck. Fun, though, and frantic, in part because of the music (which sometimes drowned out attacks coming my way), partially because I was low on health from the previous map, and partially from the constant bad guys all around (I cursed when I saw the pain elemental floating over while I was trying to deal with the first baron.) Interesting nonlinear gameplay, too: find the three keys and the three switches and leave. I hit the blue switch last, and the stairs to the exit teleporter sure looked weird while they were being built.

[dobu gabu maru]

MAP06: An okay map. It has superb visuals and a crafty layout for such a small map, but its use of specters and chaingunners in the dark rubs me the wrong way. That and the Quake 2 music felt entirely unfitting.

[MegaTurtleRex]

MAP06: This map was a bit of a grind, it looks nice and is well planned out but it was too dark to be enjoyable for me. I had to turn my monitor brightness up. The Quake 2 music is really random too given the music of the maps leading up to it. Feels like this should have been a secret map, that kick ass music suits a nice treasure find.

I'm stuck on MAP07 at the moment, I'll try again tomorrow :D

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP07 Ice&Fire

And so continues the trend of authors not in the original Whitemare with Kashtanka. A prelude of sorts before another MAP07 style fight with mancubi. Getting a few keys and a plasma gun later, some revenants, cacos, and arachnotrons cause more trouble. The encounters are quite difficult and frustrating. Definitely better MAP07 than the Ledges of Pain from the previous Whitemare though.

I actually did add a bot here, but for some reason, he spawned outside the map, so again, I did everything myself.

[Tristan]

MAP07: Ice&Fire - Kashtanka
| Kills: 35/37 | Items: 5/7 | Secrets: 0/1 | Time: 04:19 | Deaths: 0 |

Not to my liking. There wasn't even really much fun in using the RL on this map, especially against the Mancubi on the ice ledges, since there was enough vegetation up there to block pretty much every rocket, meaning it took about 6 rockets to take down one. Also excessively short again, IMO. It was a very underwhelming start to a map, then it ended.
4/10, but I think things really start picking up from here, IIRC.

[mouldy]

Map07 - “Ice&Fire" by Kashtanka

This was a cool looking map, the textures and the music really helped sell the atmosphere of sinister mystery. The fighting wasn't too hard but enough to keep you on your toes, I totally forgot it was map 7 until i saw all the mancs, but it gave enough extra stuff to do to distract from the old spider/manc formula. I had to leave one monster alive somewhere because the lift to the exit seemed to be one way only, still a fun bit of killing in interesting surroundings.

[dobu gabu maru]

MAP07: Yeowzers this one got hard fast. I thought the inside traps were pretty rough but the manc/arach gimmick of the map was quite overwhelming. I would’ve enjoyed this more but I felt like the arenas were cumbersome, especially with the various “things” about the map that blocked my shots. More my style but not quite as honed as I would like.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 07 -- Ice & Fire - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets
Normally I don't really cotton to Dead Simple maps much anymore these days, but this one's alright, I think it does something interesting with the overall pacing even though the basic format of the genre is mostly unchanged.

The starting area is abstract and a bit homely, but the chapel area and the outdoor stockyard work well enough, not that you'll have a great deal of time to appraise them initially, as you'll be under fire from the crowd of mancubi as soon as you step outside--again with the insta-popping from solid ground here (although you can see/peck the manc up on the crate to death through one of the chapel windows, as he starts above ground for some reason), although at least this time it makes sense why this was done: a pain elemental appears along with the mancubi, which draws you out into the yard and keeps you from chokepointing the fight. The surprise is spoiled a little bit by the revenant on the crate, though--his head sticks out of his hidey-hole a bit and can be seen by a sharp-eyed player. Anyway, once the mancubi are dead, things get quiet....too quiet. This is probably the map's best aspect: you don't get the inevitable spider-wave thrown at you as soon as the mancs are dead; instead you wander about and do some miscellaneous switch-hittery (punctuated by a small jump-scare or two) during the downtime, and then shit hits the fan all at once. The biggest surprise here is the mastermind that appears along with the arachs; fairly effective given the lack of a BFG 9000 and much in the way of solid cover other than that big crate off to the side where it's easy to get cornered if you try to camp there.

I guess it's mostly the ominous lull in the middle and then the effective use of the spiderdemon (which is rare in PWADs, hell, in IWADs too) that account for my positive impression of the map, but whatever works, right?

[Magnusblitz]

MAP06: Vida Rota
95% kills, no secrets

Aw yeah, Quake 2 music! Always gets the blood pumping. Unfortunately, it doesn't really seem to fit this map, something more mysterious and slow would've fit the aesthetic more. I also think it's too dark, which is pretty rare for a Doom map (usually it's too bright), but it's particularly ill-suited for the design of this map, with tons of monsters at the start and perched around as snipers. No fun when you can't see what to shoot at. I also agree with Demon that the level is just too visually busy, mainly due to overuse of glowing doodads such as multi-colored torches or the floating skull rocks. I would've personally removed all the glowing items (keeping the trees) except for putting colored torches by the right key. It also is a bit anti-climatic since nothing teleports in, but I had already gotten so chipped down by near-invisible monsters I didn't mind.

MAP07: Ice & Fire
100% kills, 1/1 secret

Nice little map here, using the Dead Simple tags but not in a bland way - there's plenty of other monsters here intermingled with the usual Mancubuses and Arachnatrons. Could've done without the insta-pop monsters, though. I do like being able to restock up between waves of monsters, and that there are walls that spring up to prevent abusing the choke points (though I found the eastern side of the start building to still be an effective hidey-hole).

[MegaTurtleRex]

MAP07: This map was pretty challenging for me, I had to use saves :(

The chaingunner guarding the plasma gun shot my butt right up, then all those spiders... ouch. Nice looking map and the chapel area was fun.

[mouldy]

Map08 - “Frozen Acid" by BigMemka

This was quite the adventure, really nice design and interesting layout at the start which gave a number of options, though these dwindled to a funneled path by the end. I'm still not sure about those cardboard trees, they look pretty cool in the distance but getting up close to them looks a bit duff to me. But thats the only gripe i have with the looks, some really nice scenery in this map.

The fights to start with favoured the player quite a bit, allowing you to pick each battle on your own terms pretty much. Later on there were some more interesting encounters, the hidden revs in the forest could be nasty if you weren't paying attention, and the teleporting revs by the bridge were evil. Everything else felt a bit shooting-gallery, especially later on when the journey was narrowed down to a single pathway, but i get that this map was more about setting the scene than anything else, and it did that pretty well. Final fight was cool, using the mastermind as a hostile ally is always interesting and unpredictable. Not a massively difficult map, but a scenic journey with some nasty surprises on the way.

[Tristan]

MAP08: Frozen Acid - BigMemka
| Kills: 202/203 | Items: 21/25 | Secrets: 1/3 | Time: 13:51 | Deaths: 1

Despite the fact that because of a pleasant change in weather, I could see pretty much nothing but my own reflection in the screen, I still managed it through this map. Just about. The only complaint I have about the combat in this level is the arch-vile along the road, where a small gap in between the support and the wall means he can still hit you, so the "safe zone" is really quite tiny. I nearyl died because of that.
Other than that, great map. I like the idea of the forest ambushes. I was given a lot of rockets, but I didn't see a rocket launcher anyway, and really it would've been nice, but wasn't much of a hindrance.

9/10. Hopefully high scores like that stick now.

EDIT: IIRC, BigMemka co-authored MAP20 too, so props go out to him for that.
EDIT2: Oh yeah something I forgot to mention.

I liked the music on MAP08, but it sounds like it they used MP3 or something just for the sake of it. MAP08's music is really cool but the actual audio quality of it is pretty bad, like it's been heavily compressed to keep file size down. Probably would have been better off as just MIDI. MAP01's track suffered from this too, but I didn't really care about that track.
I remember some of the music in Whitemare 2 is really cool. MAP06, MAP10 and 28 in particular.