Sunlust [on /idgames]

[dannebubinga]

I'm now working my ass off trying to fix all the errors within my maps. Big thanks for all the feedback!

About map24 being bad: I agree. It is really bad and tedious. It will undergo some serious tuning up and tweaking.

[WH-Wilou84]

Map 24 sucks hard indeed, not enough light gradients. 0/10

Nah, well the only part I didn't like was the ammo shortage at the beginning, and maybe the quest for the yellow key, which was more grindy than really dangerous. Aside from that I think the map is damn good. It has very nice ideas, like this neat staged BFG hunt.
Sunlust needed some Combat Shock-ish grand scale maps at this point and this one delivers, and so does map 30 but in a much more epic fashion.

Please don't ax that cool Vile disco square in 24 ! :(

Overall, it would be hard for me to pick out favorites, yet as a big fan of dark/green hellish maps I must say that I've been thrilled to see your take on this theme, so maybe this part would get my vote. But there's no shortage of awesomeness all the way through, though.

The only map I wouldn't really want to play again is that snowy token Tyson map 21 thing, but then again this gameplay style has never been my cup of tea.

Congratulations yet again for such an awesome release. I mean, Doom 4 can go and rot in Hell - Sunlust is what we've been waiting for.

[Demonologist]

You probably didn't see it coming, but I'm also going to advocate 24. I admit that I didn't like it much initially, though it was more about general looks I'd say (then again - I'm not a big fan of wintry aesthetic in this particular project, looks really bland with its omnipresent black/white dichotomy as compared to other minisodes that are much more colorful and use more interesting combinations). The beginning felt pretty half-assed, but after I discovered a very quick and easy way to evade all the initial hordes (that backdoor in HK/spectre opening is really convenient) - the gripe pretty much went away. Some fights looked like a rapefest initially, but with thoughtful approach everything turned out to be manageable and enjoyable. It's a dannemap, after all, c-shocks were never meant to be played effortlessly with a cup of coffee in one hand. This map, while not being exactly c-shock-like (at least for me, monstercount and final fight aside), follows the same philosophy, so what's the problem, really.

My only real gripe after all this is that AV blockade really outstays its welcome. Spectres are easy to take care of, and then it's just long and tedious hug column-peek out and shoot some rockets-repeat many times. The area itself is cool, but I'd suggest reworking the battle a bit.

Finale, on the other hand, was hella fun. And even more so without BFG actually, that silly gun trivializes everything too much. So yeah, screw it, rockets/plasma is the way to go for maximum enjoyment. Very funny monster delivery, too.

So in the end - very little worth cutting and tweaking I think, a bit of retexturing might indeed take place to give areas more character, but that's pretty much it. Fun stuff, all in all.

[Dime]

My major complaint is the arch-vile battle demonologist. I had a bunch of deaths just because I assumed you needed to do some sort of platforming to get the additional rad suits, and then after figuring out the gimmick I fell asleep killing the arch-viles.

[Nevanos]

Apart from the Archwhore fiasco I liked most of map24 (still streaming the wad in the same conditions. It's going well actually!). I agree that the Archviles were much to be desired and feel that could be changed. Just time consuming and easy once figured out. Other than that I feel it is still a well done map. Had a great time with it.

[DeletedUser]

MAP24 was surprisingly enjoyable from the initial outlook I expected a 2K monster fest to be a long ass frustrating ordeal, turned out it was unique by having different combat situations per battle requiring different strategies so it definitely felt fresh with each encounter and they scaled up in quantity and difficulty as opposed to jumping into one huge ass rape fest at the beginning, so it feels accessible for those who were expecting a Sunder difficulty map.

My favourite was the BFG trap with the Revenants and Demons which heavily reminded me of a similar trap on Sunder - MAP10 around 3/4 of the way through.

The Archvile disco is a nice fight but the spectres were trivial if you acquire the BFG beforehand. It's an ok concept but reduce the number of AV's because not only is it tedious but more importantly it is bullshittery to die due to a fraction second mistake which will cripple demo recording attempts.

Last fight was very enjoyable while not being over the top and infuriating as theirs a good amount of space to dodge if you take care of the Cacos quickly.

[Roofi]

Hello Ribbiks & danne !

I love your megawad , it's amazing !

I'm a french doomer and I am doing some speedruns on your maps. ;)

The map 29 is so hard !


Map 10 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvFPAZr7x7g&feature=youtu.be

Map 18 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbXGx1teopQ

Map 32 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4taZHtIJbc

[koren]

MAP 29 is gorgeous but the start of it is so incredibly punishing. It really lives up to its name.

The first time I succeeded by playing it the 'proper' way: dancing around the viles, using the cyberdemon as a turret and forcing it to infight with the revenants and barons, but this was very frustrating and slow work. However, this afternoon I learned that you can squeeze past the cyberdemon, open up the map and retreat to the safety of the megasphere room from Archi while watching Nevan's excellent stream. This speeds things up considerably so long as you don't get immediately swarmed and somewhat reduces the frustration factor.

The big circular room looks stunning and the trap is very clever. It's now my new favourite doom set piece battle. Once you get over that hurdle, the rest of the map seems almost calm in comparison. It's very much like map20 in that the difficultly is front loaded. Once you get an initial foothold and conquer the set-piece battle (in map20's case that was the red key area) the rest flows nicely.

Here's a cautious but ultimately successful uv demo. Now to figure out map30!
http://www.doomworld.com/vb/attachment.php?postid=1389949

[Ribbiks]

wow, insane demos guys :D

hope you won't be too bummed that they'll desync on the final release. I hope you'll consider recording once it's done, particularly since you've already bested the big-bad map in the set. I recall phml found that cyb switch press during playtesting but I was never sure if it was a consistent strat. glad ya like the AV circle room, probably my favorite room I've made in the wad.

[koren]

Ribbiks said:

wow, insane demos guys :D

hope you won't be too bummed that they'll desync on the final release. I hope you'll consider recording once it's done, particularly since you've already bested the big-bad map in the set.

Of course. I recorded a demo there just to see if I could pull it off, looking forward to playing an even more aggressive and confident game when the maps are finalised.

[Nevanos]

You guys are so cruel.

MAP29 runthrough from last night's stream.

[Rez]

Wow. I bow to your superior level of insanity! (and mad dodging skilz) :)

Those giant gears look really neat. Never seen that effect before. Never ceases to amaze me what WAD authors will create.

[Tomasm21]

It's one of the most unique megawads in the history. It will be played long time. It's interesting and challenging. Very good architecture and style. At zdaemon it's among mostly played. Good work.

[Linguica]

Tomasm21 said:

It's one of the most unique megawads in the history. It will be played long time. It's interesting and challenging. Very good architecture and style. At zdaemon it's among mostly played. Good work.

Waited seven years before making a post.

[Roofi]

This morning I recorded my UV-max of Map 20. This is just incredibly difficult ! :x

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NYs74NkrtM

[Tomasm21]

Linguica said:

Waited seven years before making a post.

:DD roflmao.. Don't worry I will make more posts. It's because I didn't needed it. There are more doom forums where I was. But now I will also be here. I'm not advertising those other doom sites and forums, I just explain to you my status. And I think this site is number one where I can share all my thoughts related to doom.

[dannebubinga]

Very nice Roofi! :)

[Nevanos]

I'm freeeeeeee

MAP30 finished. Sorry that I didn't get the other half - had dropped frames throughout the first half of the broadcast but I left it on my Twitch channel anyway.

[DeletedUser]

Here is my contribution to the madness.

MAP30 - Finale

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhMAIYu1wPw

[Ribbiks]

hah. some of the beastiest maps already beaten before final release. you guys work quick!

+cheers to nev. I have no idea why you chose to do this to yourself (for context, nev played through the entire mapset blind without saves, eventually beat it after.... idk.. awhile :p), but it was fascinating to watch, more patience than I could ever muster. Definitely showcases the amount of strategic planning and mastery of execution that is required when you don't let yourself save, very tense :D

[Nevanos]

Played it on release day so it took a little over 2 weeks. Initially I wanted it finished on Sunday but 30 took a while to learn - 2 days before I beat it. It was a great overall experience. Such a fun wad! I guess after map05 I felt edgy and decided to give myself a new challenge. Been doing this to myself to better my overall self in my life in other things such as study and stuff, but for Doom, this tops the accomplishments I've done in a while for this game and I'm happy people watched me live on stream to see me through. Hope you all enjoyed for those who were there, and thank you again Ribbiks and Danne for a great Megawad! Hope you do more in future :)

[Tristan]

Current up to MAP25 on HNTR. Every map so far has been great though some frustrating moments for me have been:

MAP17. Nevanos told me you're supposed to lure the AVs into the teleporter so they get crushed. It wasn't obvious to me, and I ended up enduring the many attempts at clearing the entire thing through infighting and rocket launchers.

MAP20, fine map, though towards the end I felt it may have been lacking in health a bit. Trying to take out barons, revenants and lost souls in a relatively enclosed space while navigating damaging floors with only 3 health and no health items to be found seemed just slightly tight to me :)

MAP24, again a fine map for the most part, but I'm going to echo the comments on the arch-vile pack, which was beyond frustrating for me. So about 50 on HNTR I think? Even with the cells I had and what was given, the BFG probably only clears about 20, so I end up camping this one pillar for what felt like ages and firing barrages of rockets, which was a very long and dull process, and worst of all. One small mistake in positioning or timing is basically game over, so savescumming was an essential there. Also, radsuit leaking. I think at the very least, less archviles. I guess you could re-size that pad they're on to keep that same density (or not). Of course this has already been brought up and it's being taken care of, so I guess this criticism isn't really necessary, but I thought I'd mention it :P

The area after that was great though, very clever application of scrolling floors to deploy monsters, never seen that before.
Anyway, 27 maps in, including the secret levels, so if those are my only complaints, I'd say you've both done a damn good job on this.

[Demonologist]

Ribbiks said:

I have no idea why you chose to do this to yourself

Because this is fun! I cannot be the only clinically insane you happened to stumble upon.

[abyrvalg]

Bloodite Krypto said:

Here is my contribution to the madness.

MAP30 - Finale

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhMAIYu1wPw

Dat ancluck at 17:40, haha. Nice vid, and holy heck what a fitting grand ending for such an awesome wad, great job Ribbiks and danne. To think that a 20+ years old game can leave a man in awe not only via mechanics and sheer difficulty, but also with the looks, style and atmosphere (and so on, i'm no wordsmith like Krypto)... that's kinda impressive and unlikely, but that's exactly what it has done to me :p

[Rez]

Love the Map30 music. Perfectly atmospheric.

Impressive demos, folks. Way outta my league!

[Demonologist]

Just for the record - it's possible to do central AV battle early by making an AV jump to the middle structure (thankfully, those bastards are always there to give you a lift, desired or not). This way that big mess can become a true final battle (that you could simply evade and run straight to the exit if you're a coward not aiming for maxkills, as it will be already accessible by then), and I imagine that such reordering is just less stressful, all in all. I don't even want to think just how hard my hands would tremble should I take the intended order of things and face those AVs after all the clusterfucks.
Not sure about turret AVs though, judging by the vids - they get killed once the actual path to the center is cleared, and I remember that they were alive when I did this little trick. Is their death switch-dependent?..

[Medis]

Tomasm21 said:

It's one of the most unique megawads in the history. It will be played long time. It's interesting and challenging. Very good architecture and style. At zdaemon it's among mostly played. Good work.

It is kinda shame that a lot of stuff is beign made just for a limited boom and then it is played on zdaemon while it could be technically much more advanced.

[Tristan]

3 maps can't even be played in ZDaemon, so Boom isn't that limited clearly

[scifista42]

@Medis: ZDaemon is not the center of the world. Think about singleplayer players who prefer whichever source port, and speedrunners who mainly use PrBoom-plus.

[Medis]

Eris Falling said:

3 maps can't even be played in ZDaemon, so Boom isn't that limited clearly

Maps 24,28,30 because of missing SSECTORS aka unbuilded/broken nodes.

Map24 got patched though so it runs,

scifista42 said:

@Medis: ZDaemon is not the center of the world. Think about singleplayer players who prefer whichever source port, and speedrunners who mainly use PrBoom-plus.

Yeh ik