ever had mappers block ?

[Cupboard]

Definitely play other games besides Doom. Come back with a refreshed mind. Allow a different form of media to color your thoughts for a while. When you return the thoughts flow easier and there is a smaller checklist preventing you from plotting each vertex.

Playing amazing Doom maps will refresh your mental cache as well, but not nearly as long as if you were to step away and immerse yourself in something completely different.

[DooM_RO]

I have been working on and off (more off) on my first map for the last 3 years and since I have such a high standard it is taking a really long time. Every room needs to be unique while still making sense in the larger whole and every texture is placed very carefully and is carefully aligned. What I am basically trying to do with my map is to make it as Doom 1-like as possible but use the vanilla resources in creative ways to create a map that feels like a real place but still abstract. This is my first level made in any game but I want this to be one of the best first maps of the community.

I think I have largely achieved this after making, deleting and remaking countless rooms but thankfully every time I make a new iteration of a room, it is always better than the last and I have figured out some very cool uses for a lot of textures. Most of the time, I can work on a single room for even two weeks but every so often I have this spark that lets me create a very good room in just a day...and then I get stuck again.

Another big problem is that I struggle with not making my rooms boxy. It's really hard for me to design the layout and what makes it harder is that it has to (vaguely) feel like a real place.

I am considering uploading a few screenshots, or even the map itself for feedback because I desperately need it but at the same time I really want this to be 100% mine because I am quite proud of what I have achieved thus far.

[FireFish]

DooM_RO;
To me it seems to be a passionate artistic and almost personal approach to something you like as a hobby, if that was a true expression.

This might not be mappers block but you yourself feeling this to not be the correct time to show it to the world, like a painter missing that final brush stroke to completion. Who knows, maybe tomorrow or within some unset time you will receive that 'AHA, it is done' moment.

[DooM_RO]

Yes, I am very passionate about my map but I get stuck on designing even the most basic layouts which a lot of the times makes me feel like I lack talent.

And it is mappers block, it's just that I don't want to show it before it's done because I want this to be 100% my map with my ideas but lately I've been thinking to break this rule.

[clamgor]

I've had one case. It was between Christmas and April. I had Mapper's Block for 5 months. 5 MONTHS. FIVE MONTHS. FIVE MONTHS. I'm sure there have been worse cases, though. Like over a year for example.

Or indefinitely, because of unforeseen circumstances:

Spoiler

Death.

[Kontra Kommando]

http://www.mediafire.com/download/ri2px2kdq4bs44k/Dawn+of+Doom+Pre+Alpha+26.zip

Here is a project that I have abandoned, entitled, "Dawn of Doom". It never left its alpha stage, but it reached alpha 26. This map was way too ambitious to begin with. I had created one massive sector, and I wanted to build a huge sprawling cemetery, that was under the control of nazi troops who opened up a gate to hell. I barrowed a lot of stuff, notibly scallianos zombie scientist decorate files, and sergeant_mark_iv's ketchup gore mod. However, I didn't create a credits page, because it was never completed. Nevertheless, all of the custom textures and sprites are mine. with the exception of the minigun which was downloaded from realm667. However, I'm not too enthusiastic about the sprite work on this one, I left thick black lines on the edges of the sprites; that makes it look more 2D. My ex, who was a professional artist, schooled me on that.

But yea, I couldn't figure out what to do with this mod after a while, and I dropped it to focus on Aliens: The Ultimate Doom. Moreover, working on it felt like a chore, given the scope of what I wanted to accomplish. If anyone wants to take over this project, its up for grabs. I managed to fill about 25% of the massive space. Things are incomplete. But I still think its at least worth a look to anyone interested.

[FireFish]

I just took a look at the WAD with xwe and slade 3, and it seems you had this giant graphical change planned. The only thing i do not get is the fact that there is no visible map to edit in it, unless i am mis-reading your post into thinking ; there should be one in it.

I understand how you state that it was becoming a chore.

[TendaMonsta]

When there are no drugs available I have mappers block. It's hard for me to get basic ideas and plunge into building a level with a sober mindstate.

[scifista42]

FireFish said:

The only thing i do not get is the fact that there is no visible map to edit in it

To open the map in Doom Builder 2, you should select UDMF format. Also, the thing is really crazy. Although it is strongly unfinished, nice job, Kontra Kommando. :)

[Kontra Kommando]

FireFish said:

I just took a look at the WAD with xwe and slade 3, and it seems you had this giant graphical change planned. The only thing i do not get is the fact that there is no visible map to edit in it, unless i am mis-reading your post into thinking ; there should be one in it.

I understand how you state that it was becoming a chore.

It is MAP01 of Doom II.

scifista42 said:

To open the map in Doom Builder 2, you should select UDMF format. Also, the thing is really crazy. Although it is strongly unfinished, nice job, Kontra Kommando. :)

Thanks man, i originally planned for it to be a massive open world like wad.

If people want to add to it, that would be awesome. If I wasn't busy with A:UD, I would personally try to facilitate its completion by having others fill up designated spots on the map. It would sort of be like having a megawad with multiple authors, except its all on one map.

[Shanoa]

I get that all the time. When i try to map something i usually get stuck at figuring out how to make the very first sector, where the level will begin.

In a way i feel like i'm not cut for it i never get struck with an explosion of creativity.

[DooM_RO]

Man, I am really thinking about uploading a few shots, or even the unfinished map itself... I am quite stuck.

[purist]

DooM_RO said:

Man, I am really thinking about uploading a few shots, or even the unfinished map itself... I am quite stuck.

I sometimes feel the same way as you, wanting to 'own' your work completely - but in the end it's probably a mistake not involving others to at least playtest, especially if you're inexperienced. You wouldn't want to got to all this trouble and release it straight to /idgames only to find it's riddled with rookie errors would you?

[DooM_RO]

But I fear people might plagiarize my work... Now most of the stuff in my map is not strictly "new" but there are two or three things that I am quite proud of (even if they are not THAT big details) and that makes me even more defensive of them. For instance, I've found a great way of using the COMP family of textures, as well as others.

...But I trust the older people around here would not plagiarize my original ornamental ideas (even if they aren't THAT many) so I think this would be more suited for PM conversations, so if any of you are interested send a message.

I am a rookie too and I really don't think I am one of the "best" beginners as I always find stuff to criticize about myself (even the stuff that is more or less finished after reiterations) and I don't want to sound arrogant but I think that the stuff I am doing here is better than what people put in their very first mods/maps for a game and I certainly don't want some other rookie taking my ideas and using them as their own. My personal motto concerning modding/mapping is that the first thing you put on the internet should be better than what other people put on the internet for the first time and that if something you were very proud of two months before ( for example a milestone in your mapping) starts to suck after looking at it, you should be able to delete it and remake it without mercy, no matter how attached you are to it. Every time I deleted a room and remade it the result was always better than before and I don't regret doing any of it.

[FireFish]

If people like something in a hobby made wad i suspect they will always imitate it by accident or on purpose in a diluted way, where it probably would not matter if it was a full release or a test release.

That will always be a problem with modding and mapping.

[DooM_RO]

Of course of course. While my few original ornamental ideas are my own, I have undoubtedly been influenced by the great megawads but more in the creative process and never outright copying. In fact the Hell section of the level is going to be more or less inspired by map 27 of Scythe 2 and some E4 maps of Doom.

The first section is a military base with more emphasis on more smaller-scale encounters with monster closets and cramped corridors but as you go deeper and deeper you find the influences of Hell and then, in the lowest caverns, Hell itself which has much bigger battles and bigger, more open areas.

[scifista42]

DooM_RO said:

But I fear people might plagiarize my work... Now most of the stuff in my map is not strictly "new" but there are two or three things that I am quite proud of (even if they are not THAT big details) and that makes me even more defensive of them. For instance, I've found a great way of using the COMP family of textures, as well as others.

...But I trust the older people around here would not plagiarize my original ornamental ideas (even if they aren't THAT many) so I think this would be more suited for PM conversations, so if any of you are interested send a message.

...

and I certainly don't want some other rookie taking my ideas and using them as their own.

I don't really get this. I respect your opinion, DooM_RO, but I personally wouldn't be defensive about my work.

If my work managed to be any good and people ripped it off, maybe they would rob me of a little piece of "fame" - and what? I wouldn't mind at all. Instead, I'd be glad that someone makes use of a work I've made to create something good, even if I'm completely excluded from taking any credit.

Because I perceive wad creating just as an (enjoyable) leisure time activity, where we're not fighting for money, fame or respect; and I think everyone is aware of it too. The only important value is that the players get their desired stuff (preferably quality stuff) to have fun with. From the player's point of view, the game developers (and their egos) are unimportant anyway, compared to the game they made, or isn't it true? :)

[DooM_RO]

Well, I guess you are right but the reason I am so defensive is because it is my first map and I went through a lot of pain to bring the finished rooms to my standards. Work is slow, even for a newbie without input but the (final) release will have everything up to my standard. If something sucks and can't be fixed, I delete it.

Ah fuck it, I am going to put an unfinished version of it in the future.

[Flesh420]

To completely avoid mappers block I start and finish one project a year. Last year the results were excellent and I even surprised myself because my goal was to create five maps in five weeks. The project began and finished without a single distant threat from The Block.
All the way up until I start work ideas pop into my head that I tuck away or write down until needed, then when that itch comes I buckle down and grind out all the ideas into a playable world.

Matter of fact it's about that time of year ;).

[gemini09]

I think I just got past my mapper's block.

I had mapped myself into a corner, and things just went to a halt.

So, I started over. I mapped for a week, and now I've started over yet again. As an article over at "worldofleveldesign.com" said, it's good to practice - I've been practicing on completing this map now, I guess you could say. I already had a near-finished map, so now that I've started over I have a very detailed blueprint, and lots of practice.

[TheCastle]

I have had mappers block many many times. I usually get it either when I am not quite sure what i want to do at first and near the very end when all of the major stuff is done and I have a hard time seeing all of the tiny things that need to be tweaked.

Usually its because of being overwhelmed by ideas.

[DooM_RO]

Ok, so here is a shot from one of the first rooms I deem to be good.

http://i.imgur.com/mJcRUne.jpg

[Phml]

I like the use of that step texture to border the top computer panels. Pretty cool look and works well with the gray brick flat underneath.

[DooM_RO]

Thanks! This is one of the few rooms that have survived unmolested over the development. I try to use colors as much as possible.

[Memfis]

DooM_RO said:

http://i.imgur.com/mJcRUne.jpg

A perfect example of what I call overdesign: tiny unimportant details stuffed wherever possible, resulting in a total patchwork mess rather than something coherent and clean. I'll tell you a little secret, it's actually OK to leave some short walls as they are, without adding like 3 mini-panels onto each of them. In my opinion and all that...

[DooM_RO]

I have tried my best to make the level as detailed as possible but being tasteful about detailing. Aside from the panels do you have some other feedback?

[esselfortium]

There are a lot of different textures and structures in one area. Simplifying your texture theme can help keep things feeling connected and coherent. Using some recurring structures at recurring, predictable heights and positions (for instance, having a 32-tall strip of a compatible texture at the same height over every doorway or opening). One thing that might help make sense of my mapping gibberish is to picture drawing imaginary lines across your room based on the positions of your structures and details -- do your structures follow consistent lines across the scene? (Also, how do they interact with the lines drawn on the textures you're using?)

[Tarnsman]

Make your map like you'd make a cake.

[DooM_RO]

esselfortium said:

There are a lot of different textures and structures in one area. Simplifying your texture theme can help keep things feeling connected and coherent. Using some recurring structures at recurring, predictable heights and positions (for instance, having a 32-tall strip of a compatible texture at the same height over every doorway or opening). One thing that might help make sense of my mapping gibberish is to picture drawing imaginary lines across your room based on the positions of your structures and details -- do your structures follow consistent lines across the scene? (Also, how do they interact with the lines drawn on the textures you're using?)

I know what you're talking about and have been conscious of it throughout the development. It's a bit strange though, I thought I hit quite a good balance regarding detailing.

Is there a way to upload gifs? I can't get a good angle of a lot of shots and I think it would be better as gifs. How do I record gifs in Doom?

I am also considering uploading the whole map for even more feedback but...some of the areas are very unfinished.

[FireFish]

That must have taken so much time to build. These detail levels are higher then what you see in quake. i think the actual problem some claim
to see in this detailing is based around the fact that the doom engine, even when modernised, is still something odd when it comes to textures and details.
In more modern non doom engine these super details would never have raised questions.