The DWmegawad Club plays: MAYhem2048

[Demonologist]

Map27 - “Balls on Fire” by Corsair
One of those "run like hell" type maps I never really liked. Gameplay is hardly there since you don't even have to kill anyone, vast majority of monsters here act as a distraction and aggressive acceleration. Visuals are okay, but there's no time to appreciate the scenery. What you could learn from your surroundings on the go - you're inside a tech-styled square box with some elevated structures scattered throughout and taking the whole middle part, and its whole perimeter is occupied with fire-spitting brown shit. And that's about it. Well, at least it's more or less fun to speedrun, pacifist runs in particular.

[plums]

Well, it's coming up to the end of the month. Time for me to repeat the chorus of suggesting Psyren's maps for next DWMC. There's nothing much new that is finished, and a lot of people seemed to suggest that D2INO was too long -- apart from those who have already played it.

Let's see how far I can get in this month before it's over!

MAP19: Very interconnected, as per Chris Hansen's usual style. I wonder if such a thing is easier or harder to do in a small scale like this? Anyhow quite a good map. The visuals are solid and the gameplay is challenging from start to finish. It's a bit harder in the beginning, since the threat level goes down once you pick off all the imps around the fringes of the map, but thanks to constant ambushes it stays entertaining.

MAP20: And speaking of ambushes. I've only played a few Plut maps, but it was enough to know what I was getting into, and to automatically do 180 degree turns every time I heard a teleport sound. That said I think this one is a bit softer than some of Plut's recent maps, there's never too much to deal with at once and the health powerups trickle in at a steady rate. Visually I've decided I'm not a huge fan of Plut's style. It's not offensive or bad, but it is always busy, with tons of texture variations and details on every wall. That said any one area looks OK, and it's clearly a recognizable Plut map in style and substance.

MAP21: Definitely the best looking map so far. It's nice to see someone get ambitious and create a large open area instead of just a bunch of small corridors in this project, and even nicer that that ambition pays off. Use of height helps make the area feel open too. Visually it reminds me a bit of a small-scale and less abstract Sunder, with the colour highlights and even the jagged steps in one area like Sunder's MAP05. Gameplay isn't bad but it's quantity over quality of monsters, all the monster spam of a slaughtermap with none of the threat. The areas with one archvile were far more dangerous than the hordes of imps. But I didn't mind much either, sometimes it's nice to just have a bunch of things to shoot at.

[Demonologist]

I'd rather suggest something older to toy with. The Club has already observed Kama Sutra, among others, but never gave attention to AV or any of HRs. Why not to do it in the upcoming months? Legendary and all, yes, but the detailed analysis always reveals weak spots and dissolves the mystic veil of decades.

[Memfis]

I vote for Ultimate Simplicity episodes 1-2 (episode 3 is rejected crap) + The unfinished episode 3 + Tormentor's Simplicity tribute.

[Breezeep]

What about Scythe 2?

[plums]

I wouldn't mind doing AV soon, but this month my ballot is all Psyren.

MAP22: It's a big box with monsters! Simple but fun. Very gentle for the amount of monsters there are, especially at the end when health is everywhere. But that's OK. Visually it's pretty square, there is certainly room for more here. The texture use is good at least.

MAP23: Didn't like the start, too cramped, but once I got past that it was pretty good. I'm a bit surprised by the number of problems this map has, given how experienced a mapper Phobus is -- I see he's posted an updated version today in the MAYhem thread, which I think I'll take a look at. Right now it feels like a beta version of a map that will probably be great with just a bit more work. But yeah, two of the three cybers are completely harmless, and I even lamed out the first by letting the AV kill him off :p.
Also I agree with DotW, this music is as played out as Doom 2's stock tracks.

MAP24: It's not going to win any cacowards, but I seemed to like this more than most people in this thread. The concept is pretty simple: get your plasma rifle and shoot whatever comes up in front of you. Very straightforward run-'n-gun play, but that's not so bad once in a while. A number of questionable design choices in the architecture -- too many sharp angles, walls you can shoot through, a random voodoo doll? -- and not so great visuals either. It's a heck of a lot better than joe-ilya's older maps though. Hopefully he continues to improve even further.

[NuMetalManiak]

i suggest we play through something where there is a general consistency for just about every map, instead of a (recently made and only beta-tested) community project where certain maps make people want to quit Doom forever. looking at some reviews here, ya'll sound like ya don't like the game anymore. we should also stop playing 2013-14 mapsets too often. my vote is for Doom 2 Reloaded.

[Steve D]

I am absolutely, positively taking August off in order to finish projects. But I can still suggest megawads I have No Desire To Play! ;P

Batman Doom - Well-known, historically legendary and popular Mac-made TC. Even though I'm an old MacDoomer, you would literally need to put a gun at my head to force me to play. You might even have to shoot me.

Hell Revealed - any version. Ain't never gonna happen.

Base Ganymede - I quit playing this because of the tight ammo in map after map. Me no like.

Funny, but that's about all I can think of.

[dobu gabu maru]

If we wanted to try out a newer set, I've gotten a request to assist with the beta testing of Stomper if you guys are interested. Otherwise, I'd say we stick to some older stuff since September we see us back in beta land.

Out of all the suggestions, we should stick with Psyren's set, Alien Vendetta, Hell Revealed and Requiem as our choices to help narrow it down.

---

Also as a side note, since my map is coming up on the morrow, I suggest people looking for more fun than frustration should try HMP instead of UV, as I designed the latter difficulty to suit those already familiar with the map.

[Marcaek]

Pitching Requiem or Strain yet again, also perhaps Stomper? It's in need for feedback, so I'd ask alter about that if it's a suggestion with any weight.

I'd also like to ask anyone who had a problem with my map to try it on the lower difficulties and see if they prefer it that way. I'm kind of in the same boat as dobu in that UV was meant to be uber challenge mode, whereas in the lower skills critical placements were changed to apply less pressure. I just didn't mention it beforehand heh

edit: lol posted at the same time as dobu

[NuMetalManiak]

^perhaps i should've said this as well, as my map also had difficulty settings and we both made people hate the game when they played it.

also, i've just finished the redoing of my map, with a new playstyle and texture scheme, in case anyone has missed it, it's now called Senators of Volition.

[Veinen]

I'd like to see the classics get some recognition too so my vote for next months wad goes for Alien Vendetta.

[Phobus]

Well, of the four map sets dobu garu maru has listed Psyren's stuff is the only one I've not played, so that appeals the most. Not convinced my upcoming month has time for full participation, but I'll give it a go!

[Memfis]

I like the Stomper betatest idea. Alter wanted some testers.

[Steve D]

Getsu Fune said:

^perhaps i should've said this as well, as my map also had difficulty settings and we both made people hate the game when they played it.

I guess I'm an outlier. I enjoyed your map.

[Steve D]

Marcaek said:

I'd also like to ask anyone who had a problem with my map to try it on the lower difficulties and see if they prefer it that way. I'm kind of in the same boat as dobu in that UV was meant to be uber challenge mode, whereas in the lower skills critical placements were changed to apply less pressure. I just didn't mention it beforehand heh

IIRC, I DNFed your map on HMP pistol-start, too, but then, HNTR and ITYTD still beckon. And have you been a solid megawad citizen and played my map? I'd like some Revenge Pelts if you don't mind. ;D

[Marcaek]

Actually, I haven't played much doom at all lately. The hot weather usually makes sitting in front of a computer and trying to focus on anything unbearable. I did flick through a couple of the later maps though and would like to comment on them but just don't feel like I can do a good job of it atm.

[Steve D]

^Hot weather can kill computers, too, at least powerful desktops, as I've learned to my horror since moving to this hot, muggy location. So I understand.

[Steve D]

Phobus said:

I did get through with no deaths, or, as I like to think of it, with all 14 of my SteveD pelts intact :P Thank you ZDoom, continuous play and foreknowledge for my illustrious trophy collection!

This is the price I pay for being such an easy out. ;D At least I shed my pelts in a nice, tough map. But wait, did you get through on UV pistol-start without shedding pelts in playtesting? If so, I salute you.

You and mouldy, and maybe Magnus, all mentioned the Cyberdemon speed-bump. Since mouldy was first, his take was right -- a blunt solution to the problem of keeping the player under fire from the "Astral Dreadnought." I suppose I could use a Manc or a couple Barons, but I dunno. Probably just leave it as is. How about 3 Archies in the exit room on UV, maybe behind a block monster line?

BTW, I really enjoyed your E2MWalter map that was reviewed at Doom Wad Station. Nice, tough Hitscanner Heaven experience. I handed-over a few pelts there, too, because I didn't go through the start door and get the weapon. Pain ensued. ;)

[Seele00TextOnly]

I'm gonna go ahead and vote for Stomper, I like beta-testing. Most of us have already played the classics anyway, staying topical is fun.

Map10 - “Sligeneous” by Getsu Fune (HMP)

I enjoyed the map more on HMP, sure. Though I did know where I was going and what was going on all along which also helped. The lack of Chainsaw keeps the pressure up, and ammo sometimes dipped into dangerously low, which is how I feel ammo should be balanced so good job.

Map18 - “Black and Blue” by Marcaek (HMP)

I had a better go of things, up to killing the Archvile that caused me to DNF last time. However once I hit that switch, it's apparent I'm expected to strafe-run across numerous platforms in a preposterous maze with so much fire still bearing down on me. Couldn't possibly stand getting the BK that way with this amount of crossfire and DNF'd again.

(HNTR)

So this time knowing what is to come, I use every resource I have to kill every single one of the peanut gallery overlooking the arena prior to the ridiculous strafe-run 'puzzle'. Even then, the exercise is so tedious that I save between each move, because I'm sure as hell not doing this pointless exercise the hard way. So I play further along, the Cyber threatening me constantly while I face down the hoard of Cacos and other assorted folks as the map transforms around me. Eventually it becomes clear I'm supposed to make the strafe-run puzzle again, with the Cyber shooting. Nuh uh. I decide instead to use all of my remaining ammo taking him out. A very tedious savescummy affair. After that, a few more mid-tier monsters and I've reached the Exit.

I don't think I played the map in the remotely intended manner, and I didn't enjoy it one bit. I like how it looks, and aside from the awful strafe-run puzzle I enjoy the layout. But that just kills the map for me. Sorry.

[dobu gabu maru]

SteveD said:

You and mouldy, and maybe Magnus, all mentioned the Cyberdemon speed-bump. Since mouldy was first, his take was right -- a blunt solution to the problem of keeping the player under fire from the "Astral Dreadnought." I suppose I could use a Manc or a couple Barons, but I dunno. Probably just leave it as is. How about 3 Archies in the exit room on UV, maybe behind a block monster line?

I too think the final cyber isn't all that necessary, as most people playing the map for the first time won't even realize how to exit until the big balloons are popped. Even then, I don't think it's necessary to punish speedy people for grabbing it and going. Perhaps something like 1 AV in the exit room without block monster lines would serve your purposes well enough.

[TMD]

*pops head out from under manhole cover*
Ultimate simplicity.

[mouldy]

Map27 - “Balls on Fire” by Corsair

Fun map, not massively hard as long as you keep on the move, the real challenge appears to be figuring out how to kill all the monsters. I managed to get one set of crushers going, but had no idea how. There were switches dotted around that didn't seem to do anything apparent, and a shootable switch that likewise did nothing obvious. From checking doom builder it seems there were 3 more switches I had to shoot to activate the 2nd crusher, only they were hidden behind the monsters and not marked as switches in any obvious way so may as well have been invisible. Kind of annoying that, after all the fun i had dodging all the fireballs it would have been nice to be able to watch them all get crushed. Oh well.

I've no suggestions for next month, would be nice to see AV get some attention though I'd be amazed if there is anyone here who never played it. I went through it myself only recently and it is still an absolute classic, but definitely open to criticism here and there.

[Steve D]

dobu gabu maru said:

I too think the final cyber isn't all that necessary, as most people playing the map for the first time won't even realize how to exit until the big balloons are popped. Even then, I don't think it's necessary to punish speedy people for grabbing it and going. Perhaps something like 1 AV in the exit room without block monster lines would serve your purposes well enough.

Hmmmmm. Good idea, though it's less jagoffy than what I had in mind, and I don't want to dip too low on the Jagoff Quotient. Still, it's a fact that taking out the final Cyb is a dead-easy slog, and the last thing you want in a fast-paced map is anything sloggy, especially if the player still has to kill the 2 wall-turret Cybs, as has happened to me in playtesting. ZZZZZZzzzzzzz. And it's definitely not easy to grab that blue key right away, since it's guarded by a Cyb and every Caco in Tomatoville. I suppose one good thing that could come of ridding the Cyb and settling with a single AV is that the map will become much friendlier to speedrunners.

Maybe 2 Archies on UV, and 1 for HMP/HNTR?

[Steve D]

mouldy said:

I've no suggestions for next month, would be nice to see AV get some attention though I'd be amazed if there is anyone here who never played it.

Ahem, there's me. ;D

After all, I went into a Doom Time Capsule in 2003 and only emerged when the archaeological team opened it in 2011. As a result, AV is a megawad I'm actually Very Interested in playing, so as it gathers momentum here, my worst fears are being realized.

It seems that Batman Doom is getting no love. Has the DWMC ever played a TC?

No one has taken up the call for Base Ganymede, either, but Hell Revealed has gotten some attention.

Therefore, my official vote for next month's megawad is Hell Revealed! A magnificent orgy of monster carpet-bombing that all slaughter fans should enjoy while I sit the month out except for finishing up D2TWiD.

My fingers are crossed . . .

[Demon of the Well]

You surprise me, Steve. You're usually one of the most courageous of all the Clubbers, but you're wary of little old Hell Revealed? You've played stuff with us that, relative monster counts aside, makes many (though not all...) of the maps in HR seem like snuggly little ducklings in comparison--some of the maps in MAYhem2048 are approximately as dangerous, including your own (at least in Boom, heh). That being said, I'm not sure how HR handles skill levels, if it handles them much at all, but nevertheless it's not something to turn your back on.

I was thinking about voting for Stomper, but reading about it in its thread it's apparently entirely missing at least one map in its current state, which kind of pisses in the pool a little--perhaps something I'd prefer to return to a short few months down the line, when it's a bit farther along. So, I guess I'll tentatively vote for Psyren's mapsets, although again I think it might be good to consider substituting some other short/mid-length mapset for Azagthoth, since it does tend to have a lot of blandness to it, at least from what I remember (I've played the other two several times, but Azagthoth only once).

Edit: Oh yeah, if you want to REALLY be a jagoff with the end of Heat Miser, instead of having the last cyb you could put a one-time teleporter line in the exit chamber that punts the player back to either the blue key platform or perhaps to the entrance room, and add a small number of monsters (perhaps some trash and a vile or two) to the proceedings at the same time. The teleport will give the middle finger to people trying to ignore the cacoswarm; the monsters make the teleport seem less pointless to those who've cleared out the rest of the map before trying to exit.

[Alter]

Demon of the Well said:

I was thinking about voting for Stomper, but reading about it in its thread it's apparently entirely missing at least one map in its current state, which kind of pisses in the pool a little--perhaps something I'd prefer to return to a short few months down the line, when it's a bit farther along.[/B]

Xaser's map20 will take months to complete, so ignore this one (placeholder transition map for now), the rest are complete and ready to be tested. And considering there's not much interest in actually helping me with feedback and ACTUALLY making it good, it's why I asked for help to dobu. So basically I need the help with testing, quality control and feedback, right now, NOT 6 months down the line when people will suddenly tell me why I didn't do X 6 months earlier. Seriously.

[Phobus]

SteveD said:

This is the price I pay for being such an easy out. ;D At least I shed my pelts in a nice, tough map. But wait, did you get through on UV pistol-start without shedding pelts in playtesting? If so, I salute you.

Oh no - I think I died a couple of times from pistol start whilst I got my bearings at the beginning and then another couple when I actually attempted to execute the ad-hoc plan and then at least one more when things all went a bit Caco. It's a tough map to play with no knowledge of what's coming, definitely!

SteveD said:

You and mouldy, and maybe Magnus, all mentioned the Cyberdemon speed-bump. Since mouldy was first, his take was right -- a blunt solution to the problem of keeping the player under fire from the "Astral Dreadnought." I suppose I could use a Manc or a couple Barons, but I dunno. Probably just leave it as is. How about 3 Archies in the exit room on UV, maybe behind a block monster line?

I think an AV or two blocked in the exit room should slow the player down enough that if he's trying to scarper he'll regret it, whilst if he's done and set to stroll out, it's only about 8 rockets and a bit of dodging to clear the way :)

SteveD said:

BTW, I really enjoyed your E2MWalter map that was reviewed at Doom Wad Station. Nice, tough Hitscanner Heaven experience. I handed-over a few pelts there, too, because I didn't go through the start door and get the weapon. Pain ensued. ;)

Glad to hear it - I had a fair amount of inspiration from yesteryear on that one, which made it fun to map for. I did try and make a follow-up not long after, but lost interest...

[CorSair]

How about making every second DWMWC have old stuff and then the other newer stuff? It's not like end of world (well, maybe for author(s) if we miss some new stuff coming. Just my two cents.
So, AV or whatever we decide now in August, and next month, Stomper? Or vice versa?

And it seems the map I made that didn't suck balls. THAT much. Guess it's achievement on my part, with what short history of mapping I have. ;)

[plums]

Well I guess I wouldn't mind playing through Stomper. I kind of agree with Getsu Fune that it would be nice to play something with some consistency and polish, though. (Says the person who wants Azagthoth included with the rest of Psyren's maps... actually I wouldn't mind skipping out on it, but I would like to see Crimson Canyon played, and so Azagthoth seems like an obvious fit for the remaining mapslots.)

Anyhow is there actually anyone besides Demon of the Well and myself who is interested in having Psyren for the DWMC? Maybe I ought to stop pushing for it and just go play it myself some time :p (edit: I see Phobus voted for it too.)

Also, September's wad is still reserved, right?