The DWmegawad Club plays: MAYhem2048

[Obsidian]

mouldy said:

Hey that music sounds familiar :)

Heh, I'll just take this moment to say that your music is brilliant and I'd love to use more of it. Uhh, if you're okay with it of course. :D

[mouldy]

Obsidian said:

Heh, I'll just take this moment to say that your music is brilliant and I'd love to use more of it. Uhh, if you're okay with it of course. :D

Cheers! yeah I think i'd be cool with that, though if its from my going down wad I'd rather people waited til its finished and on idgames. Won't be too long hopefully.

[Phobus]

MAP30:
Good thematic consistency having the two void maps come one-after-the-other like this - highly unusual for a community project! This map is pretty easy coming in continuous, even with laughably low health and not remembering how the secret works until after having beaten the main part of the level. As stated before, the soundtrack puts me in mind of those bits in a hentai when some school girl has suddenly found herself up tentacle creek with no paddle, which seems appropriate for a level like this. The IoS (or Spider of Sin?) fight is my kind of MAP30 fight, as it's over about as quickly as it begins if you know what you're doing, so all-in-all, I'm pretty happy with this.


Final thoughts? It's not a bad megaWAD - the 2048 restriction is a lot easier to use than the 1024 one and it shows in how a lot of these maps don't even feel cramped. There's a few stinkers, a couple of maps that seem unreasonably hard and a few concepts that were never going to turn out particularly well to begin with, but overall it's alright. I think a few of the sound replacements (Mastermind death and seemingly all of the IoS sounds) could do with being axed, but I was otherwise fine with the resources and enjoyed the texture set in particular. Perhaps I'll join in next May too!

[dobu gabu maru]

MAP30: Aha Suitepee will be glad to hear this tune again! Anyway, the final map begins eerily with a large dungeon crawl, having you peek around corners and dodge in super tight spaces. I actually really enjoyed this part of the map, especially with the odd stained glass cubes floating around, really creeping me out. But MAP30 is gonna MAP30 and the IoS fight pops up and forces the player to figure out how to kill Romero as fast as they can. I couldn’t though, just running about for a long time, until I just gave up and noclipped into him. Really cool map otherwise—just wish it stayed as the dark stained-glass dungeon-crawl in a way.

Overall MAYhem2048 is a very solid set of Doom maps. Quadrupling the 1024 space really helps each map to feel fully-fleshed out, and some of the areas were quite massive for stuffing the player into a small space. It’s the best MAYhem yet, and I’m glad we had a lot of good mappers participate. Perhaps the only thing it suffers from is that once you get a feel for the 2048 space, it becomes a bit predictable knowing how much of a map you have left (though others stump this precedent, like Eternal). That and space can get cramped very quickly due to mappers (such as myself) trying to make it as hard as possible. Nevertheless it’s a great semi-speedmapping set.

For E1, favorite map was MAP01 and least favorite was MAP10.
For E2, favorite map was MAP12 and least favorite was MAP18.
For E3, favorite map was MAP26 and least favorite was MAP24.
Special nod to both Chris Hansen and Eternal for providing fantastically solid maps, and to walter for making maps I had a lot of fun with.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and MAP04 should definitely be moved to the bonus slots

[Demonologist]

Shit DotW, that's some really impressive playing on your part. I guess I have to apologize for those confusing wooden beams on the blood fountain, they're just midtextures and thus don't block shots, so it's not the best idea to hide from rockets behind them.
And thanks for your elaborate feedback, quite interesting reading as always. I 'm genuinely curious on which map of mine you'd call the best one though...

Demon of the Well said:

the amount of times I died getting the hang of 'Irreligious' from 'Realm of Demonology', hooooo boy

Faith kills.

plums said:

Personally I quite liked your map here, the small scale applied to your style keeps things from getting too out of hand.

Thanks. The definition of "getting too out of hand" may vary I presume, but I see where you're going with that, heh.

Correct music tracks on maps beyond 32 is somewhat problematic thing in non-zdoom-based ports, I remember it's still possible to replace the track for m34, but not for 33 and 35, so you'll be hearing your favorite text screen and intermission tracks there. Maybe manipulations with musinfo could help since prb+ supports it, I have no idea to be honest.

Map33 - “Crypt of Unsilence” by General Rainbow Bacon
The first thing I have to admit - this map is actually pretty nice-looking. Somewhat minimalistic still, but texture choices are successful, so that the whole picture looks consistent. I was still seeing quite a bunch of misalignments when I last played it though.
About gameplay - there are some clever setups, annoying but actually logical usage of spectres and some quite dickishly places archviles, up to the point of "how the fuck am I supposed to avoid their attacks?", especially those two "interdimensional" ones that are guaranteed to kill you unless you know they're there and run past them. Man, what a dick move (ahem).
Overall though, not a bad map. Not flawless, but not horrible, either. I agree that it's worth putting in the main lineup (instead of something really bad *cough* rublev1 *cough*).

Map34 - “99 Red Balloons” by cannonball
While I like the theme and nice cohesive texture scheme, the gameplay of this one is pretty unimaginative. Everything devolves into circlestrafing and infighting galore (with occasional dive-in and out to press another switch and invite more maggots to the party) very quickly. Things may only become slightly more hairy with the batch of archviles being released, though they're barely capable of turning your life into hell. An okay map for some mindless action, but that's about it.

Map35 - “Mansion” by joe-ilya
Ummm... Well, it's a dark gimmick horror-like map with some weird shit going around as you traverse it. In the end though, I don't even know what to say. Looks like a draft indeed, too weird to make any sort of weighted judgement.

So, I have to say this mapset is still a remarkable one. Mixed bag overall, but with some real gems to be found. Moreover, the texture pack isn't the one to be used often, especially nowadays, and I actually like ED's aesthetic features applied to something that barely resembles it in other aspects (so far Baker's Dozen is the most successful mapset in that regard, obviously), so it suits me just fine. Probably I'm aslo the only one who doesn't mind sound and sprite replacements much, even though it'd be better without them. Props to TMD for choosing it this time. And 2048 x 2048 feels much more interesting to me than 1024 x 1024. Still, not a thing to overdose, but in the end it was an interesting experience, nevertheless. Cheers to all.

[Seele00TextOnly]

Map30 - “Bloodstained Glass” by Obsidian

Narrow corridor fights, some infighting amongst Lost Souls followed by cleanup, a low stress encounter with some Revs and Imps... past the Red Door I find a much higher stress encounter with Archviles, which I hate to say feels like yet again an exercise in luck to beat. That seems to be what passes for challenge to some, I'm not sure why. Savescumming my way through that, I end up going around killing the various Arcvhiles in the map, then finally hit the switch and progress.

Next is a quick and easy fight with a Cyber, surprised this BFG is on UV setting. I could not figure out how to access the Icon of Sin to Rocket it, so eventually just gave up and clipped in. Never been big on Icon of Sin fights anyway, terrible boss monster and usually not worth including at all.

This map left me feeling mostly meh. There were definitely far superior offerings within the set. Though lots of goose eggs too. So I'd say this wad is definitely a mixed bag, probably typical for community projects with less than strict quality control.

[Magnusblitz]

18 pages and counting... I'd say this WAD was quite popular to review, given that the last few threads were all in the 6-10 page range.

Overall Thoughts:

I'm glad that there was such a big response to the Mayhem idea this time around, as opposed to the last ones (Mayhem 2013 had 11 maps, 2012 had 12 maps). And while quality varies and there are still some stinkers, as to be expected with any open community project like this, the overall quality is pretty good - most of my complaints tended to be more "I don't like this" as opposed to "this is just objectively bad." So, good success in that sense. I think releasing a version keeping the textures but getting rid of the new sounds (and possibly the dark imp sprite) might be a good move, but I can understand if not (and it would ruin the last text screen! Ha.)

Favorite Maps: MAP01 (Jimmy), MAP06 (Memfis), MAP12 (z0k), MAP16 (SFoz911), MAP19 (Chris Hansen)

Worst Maps: MAP04 (Rublev), MAP24 (Joe-Ilya)

Most Interesting Map: MAP28 (Dobu)

Map Most Likely to Make Me Snap and Go Postal: MAP18 (Maracek)

Runner Up to the Above Because Fuck Cacodemons: MAP25 (Steve Duff)

Prettiest Map: MAP21 (tourniquet)

[Steve D]

Map27 – Balls On Fire by CorSair - Kills - 33, Items – 100, Secret -100. Death Count – 5

UV pistol-start, GZDoom

This was . . . a strange map. ;D

I DNFed this map in playtesting because I got completely discombobulated. This time I found it relatively easy, but somewhat annoying, yet there were things I liked about it.

One thing I liked was the brightness and the color scheme. Although I prefer darkness and mood in a map, the fact remains that in my apartment, every room has big windows and white mini-blinds, no dark curtains at all, so every room is flooded with light, and on long summer days, unless there's thunderstorms, dark, moody Doom maps can only be played once it gets dark. Even the average Doom map can only be played in the dark. CorSair's map lends itself to daylight play, but dag-nabbit, I couldn't get to it until night, so the advantage was lost. >:(

This map had a few annoying aspects. The two most annoying things were 1) Use of a weird switch texture that for a long time I didn't know was a switch, wasting my time in the yellow key hunt, along with the lowering platform being blocked from view, and 2) Midtextures that obscure too much of the view, so you can't see the fireballs coming. Those are from Eternal Doom, right? Picture my middle finger raised to whoever designed those textures. ;D

Another annoyance is that aggressive play was punished. If you killed a Manc, another one teleported in. Thanks, CorSair! If you killed a Revvie, more would walk over to take its place.

OTOH, I liked the gallery set-up. It's like you're the lead singer of a rock band, but everyone in the stadium thinks your band sucks ass and they've decided to kill you. Or maybe you're on a Brazilian soccer team and you've just defeated Manchester United, and now it's “War On The Terraces” time – great song by The Cockney Rejects. Yeah, “We Are The Firm” – yep, another Cockney Rejects song.

>>>Takes break, goes to YouTube, and cranks “War On The Terraces” and “Fighting In The Streets.” Fuck yeah! Cockney Rejects forever! Kings of Street Punk<<<

Back to our regularly scheduled map commentary . . .

So at the start of the map I decided to practice generating infights, and in the process got killed 5 times. After that, I went to savescumming and picking off the HKs, Barons and 1 Manc overhead who were blocking my access to the blue key and other objectives.

I like the way the arena looked, with its tall places, pulsating lights and whatnot. Wasn't stoked about the conveyor. Would've preferred jumping from a slightly higher position to avoid getting stuck against the architecture from time to time. That was just annoying.

The map went by very quickly once I decided to quit goofing-around with starting infights. They weren't very rewarding in their results, so I started killing the HKs myself, because they were there and I wanted to kill something. ;) Then I got outta there.

As can be seen, I didn't mess around looking for crusher switches. Not sure what's fun about that. So I left with only 33% kills.

So this map is an oddball. The overhead monsters forced me to keep moving and I liked the BGM. Overall, not bad.

It's also worth noting that I played this map with the goal of going into Map28 on continuous, so that maybe I could actually beat it on UV, and then go into Imago Mortis with a BFG.

Gee, I wonder how that turned out? :D :D :D

[Demon of the Well]

Map 30 -- Bloodstained Glass - 188% Kills / 100% Secrets
Another by Obsidian, and it sure is Obsidian-y. Fortunately, the kind of stuff he usually likes to do is pretty at home in a mapslot 30 map (the most gimmicky slot of them all), and I'd say this feels like the most 'complete' of his offerings in MAYhem2048. Ironically, at that....it's effectively smaller than the other two, in fact I reckon it's effectively smaller than most of the WAD's other maps. It still fills out the space, mind you, it's just that a lot of the viable play area is dedicated either to a 'narrative' area where not much actually happens (e.g. the entrance island), with significantly more dedicated to the Icon of Sin area (traditional map 30 setups require a decent chunk of space to function in a reasonable way, and of course most players will want to spend as little time as possible within them).

This means that the actual meat of the level takes place in a very small space, a warren of dreary, dusty stone tunnels and alcoves visually punctuated by stained glass insets, glowing red energy veins, and other, more dubious aesthetic details (tu-tone bathroom rugs near the switches come to mind). The space is utilized fairly well--it has a 'stacked' vertical layout over its short expanse, and feels more complex than it actually is by virtue of inclusion of some shifting floors and the way it wraps around on itself, complete with visual callback (although it doesn't actually fully loop). That it unavoidably reuses with little combat space it has probably helps in this regard, as well....for the most part the action is quite similar to what was in Obsidian's map 17, perhaps a bit more immediate on account of the even tighter confines. I get the impression that the ammo/health balance was supposed to be fairly stingy (which is an Obsidian trait, it seems), although I was pretty comfortable most of the time, no doubt because I found/proceeded to use the secret berserk pack from the get-go. Dungeon-crawl roomclearing fare is not usually my thing, but this part of the map does field one rather good encounter via the group of arch-viles who try to pull off a pincer maneuver. Again, I must disagree with the notion that surviving this encounter is fundamentally a matter of luck/RNG, although I can see it being quite nasty the first time it's encountered--I reckon the best strategy here is to be aggressive and rush one part of the vile-team (the basement area offers more cover, but also a greater chance of bumping into resurrected monsters); trying to fight a two-front battle in the corridor is a dicey proposition at best, especially considering the obnoxious death-hole that opens up on the elbow bend.

The IoS area I felt to be rather underwhelming. The only difficulty involved is figuring out how to create the vantage from which to fire rockets into the sinister godling's weak point; I suppose it's kind of obscure, but the cages plus the fact that they very obviously fuck off once you hit the switch is a sufficient enough hint, I feel. Once that's done, there's no element of timing or complex aiming whatsoever, just point and shoot--pretty damned underwhelming I'm afraid, especially since the area is too small to entertain a relevant fight with the spawning beasties. Incidentally, everyone says that the aberration from the refracted dimension looks like a spider of some sort, but all I see is a three-eyed Jar-Jar Binks (which makes it that much easier to pull the trigger, of course).

The main part of the level has a good fight and is Obsidian's best material in this particular mapset, but unfortunately I found the IoS setup (which I tend to value more than most players, remember) to be rather unsatisfying. Not a lot he could've done with what space he had left, I suppose, though perhaps it would've been better to just extend the main map and have another fight or two there, forgoing the IoS this time.

********

The 2048x2048 allotment definitely allows for a more robust play experience than its 1024x1024 predecessor. I actually see a good number of things to like in the 1024 megaWADs, but these tend to fall under the banners of aesthetic and concept rather than under that of satisfying action, most of the time. MAYhem2048 is more of a 'have your cake and eat it too' proposition in that regard; many of these maps are still novel little curio-boxes foremost, but the extra space means that there's more scope for relevant combat as well, and also for individual mappers' personal styles to shine through more readily. Like most community mapsets its overall quality (in terms of both presentational fidelity and engaging gameplay) does run the gamut from the low to the high end of the scale, but I think it's fair to say that it's actually slightly above-average in this regard; if I haven't seemed elated most of the time, it's not because I think most of the maps are bad (only a few are, although the ones that are are quite bad, I suppose), but because small/short maps generally have to work harder to engage/immerse me than more substantial ones do....and some of these were able to achieve that, so I'm glad I played. Top 5 maps for me (no particular order, as usual) this time were:

1. Map 12 -- Compound Invasion
2. Map 16 -- Master Plan
3. Map 28 -- Cold Seep
4. Map 32 -- Aeternal
5. Map 01 -- Unorthogon

Honorable mentions to 08, 29, and 18 (no, really, I genuinely liked how calculatingly spiteful that map was). I guess it doesn't really mean anything since this is just a community grab-bag set loosely grouped by difficulty, but there's a stronger showing from the earlier parts of the game here than is usual for me (I count map 32 as part of E2, usually), I usually seem to skew heavily towards the last 10-12 maps of the game in my picks, but not this time--maybe the size restriction tacitly enforces pacier gameplay even in the early easy maps, or something?

[Demon of the Well]

Demonologist said:

Shit DotW, that's some really impressive playing on your part. I guess I have to apologize for those confusing wooden beams on the blood fountain, they're just midtextures and thus don't block shots, so it's not the best idea to hide from rockets behind them.
And thanks for your elaborate feedback, quite interesting reading as always. I 'm genuinely curious on which map of mine you'd call the best one though...

No, no, served me right. Don't fight like a man and you won't die like one.

Of the ones I've played, I think that Forevermore is probably your most well-rounded map to date, although Irreligious does seem to have some particular fascination for me, even if it is extremely simplistic in concept.

[joe-ilya]

Is my map the worst now?
https://www.mediafire.com/?wtoj451d8hp0vd4

[Steve D]

dobu gabu maru said:

Miley Cyrus Steve? I can't really picture you twerking

Yes, I've been a big Miley fan ever since I saw her kick unholy ass performing "Fly On The Wall" on Dancing With The Stars, and how's that for evidence of a high testosterone level? ;D

However, in a world plagued with uncertainties, there's one thing of which we can be confident; neither you, nor anyone on this forum, or indeed, anyone on this planet, wants to see me twerk. ;D

[joe-ilya]

SteveD said:

Yes, I've been a big Miley fan ever since I saw her kick unholy ass performing "Fly On The Wall" on Dancing With The Stars, and how's that for evidence of a high testosterone level? ;D

However, in a world plagued with uncertainties, there's one thing of which we can be confident; neither you, nor anyone on this forum, or indeed, anyone on this planet, wants to see me twerk. ;D

What does this has to do with megawads or with doom at all?
EDIT:Heh.

[Steve D]

Map28 – Cold Seep by dobu gabu maru - Kills - 67, Items – 94, Secret -33. Death Count – 85

UV continuous, GZDoom

Okay, so all I got out of Balls on Fire was an SSG and RL, plus a good bit left of a Soulsphere and Blue Armor. In other words, only a little bit better than a pistol-start. If only CorSair had given me a BFG . . . “Curse you, Red Baron!” ;D

As others have said, this is a good-looking map, but I wasn't as wowed by it as most, or as I've been by other Dobu maps I've seen. Probably has a lot to do with the cramped spaces, the wood theme, and the occasional use of extreme darkness. I did really love the strange “walking on chandeliers” section. Since we're on the good ship Dobu Gabu Maru, freshly attacked by Dauntless dive-bombers from the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise, it appears we've been sunk and are now underwater, albeit with sizable air bubbles keeping us alive, but in this passageway, we can look down upon what remains of the elegant ballroom.

I died early and often in this map, and on my 3rd death I was really pissed, because I got chased by Cybie past the SSG, into the next room, and I ascended the stairs to the chandelier passagway, where I got caught in a sandwich of a Baron in front and a Pinky and Revvie behind, with Cybie coming up fast. Slimed and Revvie-rocketed simultaneously, I sank to my demise only to see Herr Cyb jammed against the corner of the SSG room with an HK in his hitbox, sliming the helpless King of Doom Monsters. “No!” I screamed. “This can't be!!!!!!” But it was. I left the game running until I heard Cybie's last gasping collapse, and told myself, “I'm gonna die another 10 times before I can put that fucker away again.” I was wrong. I died more than that. ;D

Referencing Magnus's psychoanalysis of me as “something of a masochist” because I like to get killed a lot – in Doom maps, that is – allow me to say that, for me, the sweet spot of a good, tough map in terms of death count is usually between 10 and 20. Now, during the Sunder playthrough, where alas I could only participate in 2 maps, I recall mouldy saying he died “hundreds of times” in a single map. Hyperbole, perhaps? I guarantee you, I'd bail long before that.

Just the same, 85 is the new record for SteveD pelts in a map I actually defeated. Okay, in reality, I was defeated, it was nothing more than mule-headed stubbornness that got me through the final fight. So Dobu can start his own leather factory with all the pelts I've just handed over. Get your SteveD sofa leather, or upholster your Jaguar with specially-stitched, hand-kneaded SteveD Connolly leather. Satisfaction guaranteed! ;D

Despite that shocking death count, which now eclipses the 62 pelts gained by cannonball in a brilliantly cruel Ultimate Doom map, most of Cold Seep was much easier for me than last time. For one thing, I didn't experience the horror of going down to the southeast open area, then stupidly save a game while the Cyb was still alive above me. That led to something like 15 consecutive ride-up-the-lift-and-eat-a-rocket deaths before I was finally able to squeeze past him. No, this time I took out the Cyb after letting him kill the Barons guarding the red key path, while I rocketed the Archies. Only then did I go outside, hoping I might figure out the blue key path – I didn't – but I did grab the unnecessary Backpack without getting killed in the dick-trap. So, short of reaching the blue key path, I'm not sure what purpose this area served.

The red key battles were very easy, as they were the first time. The columns that guard you from the Spider Mastermind were almost like a training ground for the ones you'll encounter later when you face the Cybs at the exit. Otherwise, it was hard for me to understand the point of this encounter, as the SM posed no threat and the Revvies/PEs were easily taken out. It was as if this entire battle served no function other than to drain my ammo.

Red key obtained, some Arachnotrons and another Archie killed, I went to the exit. I saved before riding the lift down, because another issue I have with the map is that once you go down there, you can't come back up. So I went ahead, killed the Pinkies and Archie no sweat, then faced all those monsters coming out of pitch darkness. Brightness is set at 80 here. Jeez, that seemed cheap to me. Sorry. Throw a bunch of meat at me that I can barely see. Not a fan. And then the Cybs open up and death ensues. I died a few times here, then I opened my pre-exit save and thought I'd test the yellow key path and perhaps find the secret BFG, forgetting for a moment that you need to have all 3 keys to obtain it. D'oh! ;D

As others have learned, the yellow key fights are tomato-can battles against ever more severe opposition. I died a few times and decided I'd had enough when I got to the room with 2 Archies and an Imp. Since by now I'd taken a break and realized I'd need the blue key to get the BFG, there was clearly no point in me further torturing myself in a type of gameplay I've never enjoyed.

So I opened my pre-exit save and tortured myself with that fight, because if I managed to beat it, at least the map would be over. ;D I'm thankful that Dobu made the key paths optional so that you only need one to escape, because it shows that he really does have at least a trace element of mercy in him somewhere. ;)

So here we are at the exit, The Big Assrape! Overall, I haven't done too badly in the map so far. I'm at either 25 or 30 deaths at this point, most of those deaths the result of the Cyb and how much I suck at battling a Cyb in tight spaces. Now I'm going to have to battle 2 of them on a – for me – quite small platform, but first I have to get through all those fights in the unnecessarily nasty darkness, which among other things hides that Plasma Gun I'm going to need.

The deaths come fast and furious because I can't kill The Meat From The Dark fast enough, and the Cybs are already lighting my ass up while meat is still alive on my platform, so I'm dying before I can kill the meat, save a game, and concentrate on the Cybs. This is at least partly because I'm not in the habit of using quicksave/quickload, and instead go with the old F2/F3.

And to think that Dobu is a fellow keyboarder. ;D

Eventually, I do manage to survive long enough to save and start the grueling process of winning. Camping behind the column in front of the entrance to this charnel house, I find myself wishing that Dobu had provided a smooth wall to close us in, because I die several times as a result of getting stuck in that entrance while dodging fire.

I target the Cyb to my right and try to get a rhythm going while dancing around the columns, hoping that I can land on some approach like doing figure-8 loops in my map, which prevent the Cybs from ever hitting you, but with 2 Cybs and much more limited space, that doesn't work out. One problem I have is that with Always Run on, I often cut back too fast and run into rocket fire. So I try slowing down a bit, charging the Cybs a bit rather than always backing away, and ultimately start to get a feel for it, and finally kill that damned Cyb, only to have an Archie teleport in and, in nanoseconds, rez 2 HKs and a Revvie. If only I had foreknowledge, I'd have killed them on the other side!

“Curse you, Red Baron!!!!!!!” :D

One has to acknowledge a dick move on this level of nastiness. And to think, Dobu disliked the Spectres in my map. ;) So now I can imagine Dobu's “big dumb grin,” along with his de Sadean evil chortling. :D

So I die, of course, but it seems like I'm really warming up and it won't take too many more tries, and then --- my distraught niece calls me because I'm her go-to uncle whenever the world is getting her down and she needs an attitude adjustment. Gaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! Well, who do I call for an attitude adjustment now that my mo' has been utterly annihilated? I'll blame at least the next 20 deaths on my niece, who I dreamed of literally strangling if I could just reach through the phone lines. :D :D :D

So I finally come back to the map, cold as a cod, and die and die and die. 2 deaths are mutual KOs, and 2 more deaths are by Archie and friends. I'm starting to picture an underground lab with a huge, bubbling vat of acid, and dangling helplessly above it at the end of a rope, struggling desperately to escape, is Dobu, of course, and there I am by the control board, my hand on the lever that lowers the rope, smiling maliciously . . .

So after like 950,000 deaths, I finally kill the Cyb, and then the Archie and all that meat I left there for his convenience, and save the game when I'm at 20% health, but as luck would have it, one of those damned HKs is still stumbling about in the dark – have I thanked Dobu enough for all that darkness? – and for fuck's sake, that jagoff takes me out!!!!! :D

Once that mess was taken care of and the final Cyb disposed of, I dealt with Dobu's fiddly 2-switch Romero-head peek-a-boo, which I guess was designed to prevent players from escaping early by killing the Boss Brain during the calisthenics with our friendly neighborhood Cyberdemons. And finally, it was over.

And the best part is that if I play fair, I start Imago Mortis at 20% health! :D

I'm not playing fair.

So this wall of text is finally coming to an end. My super-duper continuous play gambit is an utter failure.

I can admire the effort and trickery, not to mention the mastery of DB2, that went into this. Dobu manages to stuff several different playstyles into a small map. He also demonstrates that he's a graduate summa cum laude of The Pcorf School of Secret Design. Heh, couldn't resist. ;) Unfortunately, most of the gameplay styles in this map are the kind of thing I associate with Doom 2 PWADs, with herky-jerky stop-start play, tomato-can battles, too many Archies, and not enough flowyness, run 'n gun, and especially not nearly enough hitscanners. The Jagoff Quotient of this map is exceptionally high, too much so I feel with the end battle, thanks mainly to the darkness. My favorite part of the map was the opening battles, because while I wasn't stoked about going up against a Cyb and assorted meat in squinchy rooms and tight passageways, I could at least move and go somewhere else rather than be stuffed in a shoebox where the only way out is through. To be honest, I'm not sure playing at a lower difficulty would change my feelings much, though I do intend to try it on HNTR. So for me, the map is an impressive achievement but not really a fun experience. Here's hoping that Dobu has a few run 'n gun maps in his arsenal.

[Steve D]

joe-ilya said:

What does this has to do with megawads or with doom at all?
EDIT:Heh.

Dum-be-dum-bum, because I was answering a comment by Dobu and I don't give 2 flying fucks if you like it or not.

[Steve D]

joe-ilya said:

What does this has to do with megawads or with doom at all?
EDIT:Heh.

I'll quote you again just to add that if you want to troll someone playing Forum Cop, I'm the wrong guy because on my side, that conversation will end here, as I'm not on these forums for that kind of mud wrestling.

Go back a few pages and read my comments on your Map24. I'd say I gave it the most positive review of anyone here.

Also, I'm guessing that your Fit To Music project is dead? I still plan on doing my punk rock map, so I just want to make certain.

[joe-ilya]

SteveD said:

I'll quote you again just to add that if you want to troll someone playing Forum Cop, I'm the wrong guy because on my side, that conversation will end here, as I'm not on these forums for that kind of mud wrestling.

Go back a few pages and read my comments on your Map24. I'd say I gave it the most positive review of anyone here.

Also, I'm guessing that your Fit To Music project is dead? I still plan on doing my punk rock map, so I just want to make certain.

Maybe we can make it a duo map if you want.

[Steve D]

joe-ilya said:

Maybe we can make it a duo map if you want.

I'll consider that. After all, it was your project idea that gave me the inspiration for it.

2 warnings, though -- I plan something at least 5 times more insane than Canyon Village, and I won't get started for at least 3 months.

[Steve D]

Map29 – Imago Mortis by Demonologist - DNF. Death Count – 50

UV continuous, GZDoom

Ah, my first Demonologist map, and it really is a thing of beauty. I love the looks of this thing, always a sucker for lots and lots of metal and towering columns with pulsating light strips.

After dying 50 times and never getting out of the Hell Knight/Revvie trap, which I think I would have survived if not for the toxic blood surrounding the switch – thanks, Demonologist! – I realized that my big problem here is that the map is designed for very, very tight movement, where the smallest possible dodge is the best one. Small dodges is a good way to play The Meat Game. As I've said a million times, I'm no real fan of The Meat Game. My motions are too large, keyboarding using one hand on the numeric keypad for all movement and with Always Run set. The approach I use is very good for The Hitscanner Game that I love, but suicidal in a map like this.

That doesn't mean I can never play a map like this. In the near future I need to take a month off to practice mouseplay and tight movement, and gradually build up my skills to a point where I can tackle this map.

I had come to the conclusion that this map is probably not that difficult if you can play it in the right way, and especially if you have my mental attitude that accepts – even desires – a high death count approach, dying my way to victory like I did in Dobu's map. The reason it seems relatively easy on the face of it is because pretty much everything is right in front of you, so if you have enough firepower and good dodging skills, this map could almost be a walk in the park, except for the Cyb/Revvie trap, which looks like a bastard. I know that sounds weird, but that's how it looks to me.

I decided to watch DotW's FDA, and so far as I could tell, he had no more difficulty than he did in one of my Ultimate Doom maps. It seemed like a piece of cake for him – but then, what map isn't? ;D I swear, if he was the Royal Navy, he could single-handedly win back the empire. ;) But anyway, the point seems clear enough to me. I even went back into it using ITYTD and practiced his pacifist approach at the start, and it worked! One thing, though, in his FDA, when he tapped the Baron, it turned and fired but did not pursue him. In GZDoom, it comes after your ass.

Since I did not complete the map, I don't have a great deal of useful commentary. I thought the start was fair, since I was able to beat it both continuous and pistol-start with little trouble. I think the shootable switch could be implemented better, because I was utterly confused once when the bars to the Imp horde didn't come down. There has to be a better way of doing that. I was not bothered by the bumpy floors in the Imp trap area, but bumpy floors are rarely an issue with me.

I strongly urge you to implement difficulty settings. I came very close to surivivng the HK/Revvie battle on UV. HMP might have been just what I needed. I got through this battle on the first try when I practiced in ITYTD.

Please use liquid flats for insta-pop monsters.

I'll come back to this map when I'm ready for it. And I might even give Dobu's map another shot, although a lot of life-altering trauma is currently associated with that experience. ;D

Before I finish, allow me to compliment you on some skillful trolling re Ex Tenebris. Very well, then, when The Ancient Doomer is ready for it, UV it is. :P

Off-topic: Big air show in town. 2 P-51 Mustangs – “Cadillac of the sky!” – just did a run over my building. wOOt!

[dobu gabu maru]

Thanks for the mad ravings Steve—I'm surprised you saw it through to the end on UV. If you try it on HNTR I think it'll be far closer to the pace you enjoy while still giving you a decent challenge.

[Demonologist]

@ SteveD: Thanks for the feedback! Difficulty settings are already there (since yesterday, ahem), you may want to check the Mayhem2048 thread. If not HMP, then HNTR should work fine for you without overwhelming death count. Shootable switch... well, perhaps, but I don't think it's much of a problem, for me it's a long-running common sense to shoot the switch when it can't be pressed.
And insta-popping monsters is actually the thing that I admire regardless of stuff like surfaces and number of attackers appearing out of thin air. I see that this thing bugs the majority of people (like Phml, who actually bothers playing and testing my maps), but I really like it and just can't - and don't want to - let it go. My only real excuse for that would be that I stopped thinking about realistic and physical aspects of this game long time ago, to me it's pretty much an arcade now that could be either fun or boring. Other stuff is just details (with only visual aspect being the major one that may actually steal the show when done outstandingly; gameplay first and foremost though).

[plums]

Better finish this up so I can start on Stomper.

MAP34: Another funny title from cannonball. Also deceptive: like mouldy, I spent all my ammo at the start on the cacodemons, thinking they were the main threat in this map. Turns out that's not the case at all. The difficulty is in fact corralling them into the centre of the map and away from the switches you need to press, while letting infighting thin out the hordes. There's a lot more room to move with the cacos around, and it seems like it's been designed with infinite-height monsters in mind, but it's still frustrating to look like you can run around one but then end up blocked. All in all it's not bad but felt a little insubstantial to me, and not as fun as Steve or Archi's similar maps.

MAP35: Attempt at a concept horror map. I like the idea but it didn't quite pan out. A baron is just not that threatening, even if you don't find the not-very-secret SSG. Well, good attempt, looks all right, good map for a bonus slot.

Whee! Obsidian rules! Except not in PrBoom+ he doesn't, because the MAPINFO text doesn't display. Oh well.

Of the 3 bonus maps, I liked MAP33 the most.


Final thoughts on MAYhem2048: I think the 2048 limitation was a bit restricting for a lot of authors. Many times I felt like these maps would've been better if there was more space to work with. Still it was interesting to see so many maps that kept the mappers' distinct styles, and just shrank them down to a smaller scale. A mixed bag, but an enjoyable one overall. It was also good to see so much participation from the mappers in this, something I always enjoy in the DWMC when it happens.

[Steve D]

Map33 – Crypt of Unsilence by General Rainbow Bacon – Kills - 68. Death Count – 26

UV pistol-start, GZDoom

This is the only bonus map I'll be reviewing because other obligations are breathing down my neck. And even at that, I'm commenting on my playtest from May, before the map had difficulty settings.

That said, this is one of my favorites maps from the megawad, a nice, brutal bit of business from that ever-reliable brute, Mr. GRB himself. Really nasty opening. Make a wrong move here or there and you end up with more pain coming at you before you really have the means to deal with it. In one memorable battle, I was at 4% health, with no health left in the area, a rocket launcher in my hands, columns all around me, and some Revvies to fight. Talk about no margin for error! ;D

The big Cyberdemon/Hell Knight Room of Death was a lot of fun. Getting a Megasphere at the start of it was a clear signal of Bad Things Gonna Happen. I really enjoyed scampering behind the insta-pop Cyb to steal the Plasma Gun and red key from right under his nose -- a special glee comes from doing something like that. ;) The slow teleports for the Hell Knighta, that cause them to keep popping in like they're coming off an assembly line, must be a real bear for UV-Max speedruns.

I did not defeat this room, instead, I fled from it, which involves killing an Archie to go through a teleporter and fight more Archies in a dickish encounter that really wasn't that big of a problem.

There's some door-camping moments, and an end-fight against Cybs in a small area that I decided to run past so I could exit. That I could do this might be considered a design flaw, or it might be a relatively merciful act on the part of GRB, or it might have been a deliberate option on the mapper's part so players could skip a potentially grueling fight if they wished to. I'm happy that the option existed, because I was more than a little shellshocked at that point and had experienced all the combat I really wanted to experience, so Yay! I can skip out. For those who can't be happy unless they kill everything, they are of course free to go ahead and kill them Cybs. ;)

So I ended-up with only 68% kills, but also a feather in my cap because this is the first GRB map I've ever “beaten” on UV. I usually need to gear back to HNTR in his happy little helholes.

The map also felt large in spite of the size limits and was pretty decent looking, but gameplay was the strong suit for those who like to be repeatedly punched in the face. This should definitely be moved from the Bonus category to the main mapset. Something like Rublev1 is more appropriate for the bonus slots.

So there you have it, a strong, fun map from GRB for those of us who like action, action, action!

[plums]

SteveD said:

There's some door-camping moments, and an end-fight against Cybs in a small area that I decided to run past so I could exit. That I could do this might be considered a design flaw, or it might be a relatively merciful act on the part of GRB. In any case, that's what I did.

A few people have brought this up, so I thought I'd throw in my take. I think it works fine as-is: there's a bit of risk to rushing past the cybers, especially if you haven't played the map and don't know for sure that you can get out alive. (I guess saving beforehand mitigates that danger though.) It's also the kind of fight that some people will like and other people won't, either because it's too tough for them or conversely too easy - for some, two cybers with ample cover and places to run to is not a tough battle. So it's nice that it can be skipped, or you can fight it out without it being too safe and sloggy - IIRC I had plenty of cells to take them out, while the crampedness adds to the danger of making a mistake.

And yeah this map was definitely good enough to include in the main mapslots, but maybe it's a mistake to think of maps 33-35 as being reserved for outtakes or lesser quality endeavours, rather than just "here's more maps we fit in where we could."

[Steve D]

dobu gabu maru said:

Thanks for the mad ravings Steve—I'm surprised you saw it through to the end on UV. If you try it on HNTR I think it'll be far closer to the pace you enjoy while still giving you a decent challenge.

Mad ravings indeed! You can see how your map has left me scarred both mentally and emotionally. I'll give HNTR a go after a bit and PM you with the results because, as I'm sure you understand, healing takes time. ;)

[Steve D]

@plums
Very good points. There's really no reason why we shouldn't consider that GRB made this fight optional, and that there is nothing wrong with that. Using Cybs is always problematic because of their staggering HP, which can make killing them in certain situations more a slog than anything else, and also their devastating attack, which gives them 1-punch KO capability if you're not stuffed with health and armor. And even if you are, there's always the chance of a second punch. ;)

Perhaps I should have worded things differently, because I was in fact very happy that he gave me this option. In fact, I'll edit my post now.

[Steve D]

Demonologist said:

@ SteveD: Thanks for the feedback! Difficulty settings are already there (since yesterday, ahem), you may want to check the Mayhem2048 thread.

Ah, this is fantastic news! True, I've fallen behind in the Mayhem thread -- and other things -- owing to the crush of other Doom and non-Doom projects now beginning to overwhelm me. I will definitely play your map again, on HNTR, and quite possibly stop there because I'm guessing HNTR will give me all I want at this point in my Doom career. That is certainly the case with Ribbiks maps.;) It's always good to offer the lower diffculties in super-tough maps like yours, because there are those of us who'd like to play such maps when they are as visually striking as your map is, but we alas cannot deal with the gameplay in its most virulent UV form. I will PM you with the results, but it may take a month or so given all that I have to do in August.

As to the insta-pop monsters, I understand your position, and indeed it can be argued that what difference does a liquid flat make unless you also do a deep-water trick, since otherwise it's just an animated flat with no real indication of a liquid quality since Carmack didn't go to the trouble of making deep-water sectors part of the engine, as Bungie did in Marathon, and as even the little Team17 from the Amiga did for Alien Breed 3D. Who knows, you may even persuade me to change my mind on this. ;)

[Steve D]

@plums
Just a couple more things.

1. Good point about bonus maps, although I personally would prefer that we don't stuff some of the best maps into the bonus slots, for the simple reason that many people won't play them, possibly because they they forgot they exist, or because they're continuers and don't feel like warping into a pistol-start on a tough map like GRB's. Indeed, it might be better to simply eliminate the weakest maps, though that has its own pitfalls, because I liked some maps -- Inkie's Cacomap, Getsu Fune's Sligenous, and joe-ilya's Canyon Village -- much more than the majority of players, some of whom hated these maps. I wouldn't want to lose any of them, to be honest. What happened, of course, is that response to Mayhem vastly exceeded expectations, resulting in more than 3 times as many maps as the previous Mayhems, so out of nowhere The Mionic Donut suddenly has a megawad on his hands. Indeed, a megawad with too many maps, thus the necessity of the bonus slots. A conundrum, to be sure.

2. I want to assure you, referring to an older post, that I did indeed sweat over the infinite-tallness issue, as I did in E1M5 of Shotgun Symphony. In part, the reason I didn't worry overmuch about Heat Miser is because, reading the Sunder thread, I kept hearing about utterly ginormous swarms of flying monsters and infinite tallness, so I figured if it's okay there, it's okay here, too. I was worried about ragequits, but even though some players disliked or even detested the map, at least no one reported ragequitting, so I'll take that as a win. ;)

[Obsidian]

ULTRA POST!

You still gonna play my map Steve or do you loathe IoS maps like some weirdos around here? :P

[plums]

SteveD said:

I want to assure you, referring to an older post, that I did indeed sweat over the infinite-tallness issue, as I did in E1M5 of Shotgun Symphony.

Fair enough, I wasn't being entirely serious anyway but I apologize if I mis-characterized you. And I did do well enough in E1M5 of SGNSYM, if I remember correctly.

at least no one reported ragequitting, so I'll take that as a win. ;)

Why ragequit when you can cowardly hide in a corner all map instead? :D