The DWmegawad Club plays: MAYhem2048

[Solarn]

MAP17, "Besieged" by Obsidian. Played in prBoom+.

I liked the first and final thirds of the map. Not so much the middle. That big square room kinda kept dragging on. This was the first time I Tysoned a bunch of Revenants to death. It's surprisingly easy, given some cover. The skulls were a fair bit harder, but I managed on my second try without losing too much health. As I mentioned, the middle part felt way too long and bland, but the final third made up for it. I must admit that I left the Spider Mastermind alive as I rushed to the exit.

Still, this was a fun map even if it wasn't as good as the previous ones and it looked really good too. The cart was a nice little touch.

[mouldy]

Map17 - “Besieged” by Obsidian

Hmm, can't say I enjoyed this one. Its a puzzle map for a start, I'm not keen on puzzle maps as they keep reminding me I'm playing a game. With this one half the puzzles are how to survive the various combat situations, with very little margin for error. For example, meeting a bunch of surprise revenants at the start with only a pistol, the only option is to run past them to grab the berserk which you don't know is there. After that there were a series of similar encounters where health was given in such small amounts that taking an unlucky hit made subsequent battles impossible without save-spamming. Which is kind of tedious. The final fight was pretty confusing and relied on foreknowledge to a ridiculous degree, in the end the only way I could do it was to summon the mastermind, grab the SSG and hope that the monsters fight each other while I run past them. Given that its the exit in that room you don't even need to grab the SSG, you can easily run to the exit before the mastermind even appears. Its a shame because the map itself looks cool, and I like the idea of the unfolding dungeon leading abruptly to outdoor battlements, but the gameplay is not my cup of tea.

[Walter confetti]

Phil1984 said:

Map15 - “Titan Mining Complex” by Walter Confalonieri
UV pistol start on pr-boom+ 2.5.1.4.test
Deaths - 2 / Kills - 101% / Secrets - 100%

This is an uneven map to me. Some rooms look good, and some look like rubbish. Some gameplay areas work (most notably the large outside area) and some areas don't (not a fan of the cyber demon placement in this map) I am also never a fan of opening up a starting door only to discover 20+ lost souls. God I hate those as an enemy! I was also able to accidentally skip a monster teleport trap that is set off (I believe) when running over the blue key. So maybe look into that if you are looking at fixing bugs.

But overall I enjoyed my time spent here even If I overall consider it weaker than Walter's Map05.

ok, thanks for noticing this, i'll see to fix this... anyway how you get the key? Just running to the pillar and take the key? This sounds odd because when i tested the map few days ago for fixing the previous bugs, the blue key trap worked...

[Phobus]

MAP17:
I think this one features every trope I'd expect in an Obsidian map (low ammo supply, gimmicks, plenty of Lost Souls) although the battering ram feels more like something Walter Confalonieri would do. I have to agree with the general consensus that this map looks good and is pretty clever, but doesn't make for a particularly compelling play experience. I think I enjoyed it more carrying in ample ammo from playing continuously than I did from a pistol start, even if that does change the intended play considerably. I'm not sure if Obsidian ever tests the balance of his maps (I know his speed maps usually go untested, but I'm not sure on stuff like this where time is more generous), but I think he needs to put more emphasis on it. Ammo draught is an almost constant complaint in everything he makes, which could be easily addressed with a bit of checking. It's no good being clever if it isn't engaging or fun!

I'd also agree with the sentiment that expanding into larger, more elaborate works with no limits would probably be good experience for him. To summarise on the map itself - I'd say it's pretty middling for this megaWAD.

[dobu gabu maru]

Phobus said:

MAP17:I'd also agree with the sentiment that expanding into larger, more elaborate works with no limits would probably be good experience for him.

Yup, this was my conclusion at the end of Countdown to Extinction.

MAP16: I liked how quick but vicious the map was, pitting you against a ton of heavyweight monsters in thankfully spacious areas. It gets a little AV heavy towards the end but felt really balanced in both ammo and health, always giving the player an opportunity to survive if they have a sense of what’s coming.

MAP17: Woof, this is a rough one. It’s starts off like a puzzle map but ends quite slaughtery, with hell's denizens descending upon you in a very uncomfortable arena. I thought it was alright by the end—I always appreciate Obsidian’s trickery—although I think I preferred MAP03 to this one.

[cannonball]

Map17 - “Besieged” by Obsidian

Meh this didn't give a good impression for me. The worst part was probably the blue key area where you pretty much have to let the cacos and mancubi duel it out as frankly killing them with the shotgun and chaingun. There were some nice things about this map. I didn't mind the little boxing the the revenants and the outdoor section looks nice. But in the end it's just not my cup of tea.

[Seele00TextOnly]

Map17 - “Besieged” by Obsidian

So it starts off as an escape-the-room puzzle of sorts. Found some handy Blue Armor to start with, and eventually find my way to getting bumrushed by two Revenants with nothing but the Pistol. Luckily there's a Berserk up ahead so I duke it out with them in a fistfight. Soone enough thanks to typing 'centerview' I'm able to shoot the switch and punch some Lost Souls. Get the Yellow Skull and a bunch more Lost Souls & PE eventually drain my health pretty bad.

When I get to the hitscanners room with the Shotgun, I decide instead to run around picking up as much health as possible before going for the weapon and cleaning house. By the time I get the Blue Key, all hell breaks loose. Really aching for health, I manage to get most of the Cacos to infight with the Mancubi. This works surprisingly well and I pick off the survivor. Through the Blue Door and I find some refreshing health, along with a hidden switch to get me the Red Skull.

Back from the Red Door with my Plasmarifle, I tear through a squad of Revs. An odd scenario with Rockets and Cacos follows, after which I proceed through the wall to the outlying dirt area. Kill everything, grab the SSG, and time to take care of a couple Archviles and their resurrected friends. Time to kill a Keen and then a Mastermind.

Never found one of the secrets, and one monster remained alive somewhere. I'd say overall this map was okay, it didn't particularly blow me away or bother me. I liked some of the challenge.

[joe-ilya]

MAP18
Annoying map with no chance of survival unless you use saves, the map was another boring invasion map where shit teleports into the same area again and again, I can't enjoy stuff like this, especially when it's annoying with ridicilous traps, all while having 30 HP most of the time exept at the end and the start where there were no huge threats, just a bunch of shottgunners you have to shoot with a pistol.
2/5

[Solarn]

MAP18, "Black and Blue" by Marcaek. Played in prBoom+.

This was a really bad map. The texturing was garish, ammo and health were very limited, and it was full of sniping hitscanners (and a sniping Vile) on ledges where you couldn't really aim at them and hordes of monsters teleporting in at the worst possible moment. Not to mention the completely coverless corridor with a Vile at the end that basically got a free shot at you. Sorry Marcaek, this map was just badly designed.

[Demonologist]

Map18 - “Black and Blue” by Marcaek
Wow, this one was unforgiving. Very tight health and ammo balance, sadistic monster placement where they always have better vantage point, damaging floors everywhere... Ouch. This type of gameplay is far from my tastes. But - texturing and color scheme create really unique and interesting appearance, I can't remember these textures from ED being used often (in fact, I can't remember them at all). It felt like I was playing a better map from Monochrome Mapping Project (and I like the wad overall, actually, so it's by no means bad thing to me). That lift leading to imps and an archvile though... it's very hard to notice, I think I even checked the editor to find out there's one after all. So all in all - it's mostly on a rather annoying side gameplay-wise thanks to severe supply shortage, but it's very nice-looking and pretty interesting to explore once you manage to conquer your private space. I liked the caco/cyb scenario, however, but I like those in most cases so it's easy to buy me over with things like that. Tough but interesting map.

[mouldy]

Map18 - “Black and Blue” by Marcaek

I wish I could force the author of this map to relive the mind-numbing low-health save-spamming floor-hurting out-of-range out-of-sight no-mouse-look platforming tedium that I went through crawling my way through it. First of all it took me ages to even realise the floor was damaging me as I was so used to out-of-sight hitscanners eating away at my health I just assumed it was them. Then finding myself on one-bullet-will-kill-me health in an arena surrounded by fucking out of range snipers in all directions, plinking away endlessly at pixels at the top of my screen only to be hit by something else I couldn't see, endlessly saving after killing every single monster, no idea where I am actually meant to be going but no way to explore without having to deal with the stupid archvile. This was negative fun, and the visuals which might have been quirky and creative in any other map started to grate on my nerves like the gameplay. Why the fuck did the floor need to be damaging with so much ranged opposition everywhere? Its not like standing anywhere for more than a few seconds would have helped much anyway. Why was everything so high up where it was impossible to see? Slowly and methodically peashooting snipers while squinting at the top of my screen is not enjoyable. It might be a challenge, sure, and there's no denying this was a tough map. But difficulty that relies on limiting movement and visibility is just frustrating.

[Seele00TextOnly]

Map18 - “Black and Blue” by Marcaek

.. Well I kind of like the off-beat texturing but is this map a joke? Pistol starting this thing and trying to just survive the close quarters Imps encounter required tons of save-state abuse and I only managed to escape with 1 health point. There is absolutely no health in sight save for one medikit early on that was surrounded by Shotgunners and almost all of the monster placement is very unforgiving. The map does give one health if they can survive running around a curved tunnel, but only to take it away by having an entire sqaudron of Chaingunners on high with little more than the Shotgun to take them out.

Even when I kill the hitscanners I can see (with freelook thankfully) I'm still always getting pecked by ones I can't seem to locate. A merciless assault precipitates from Imps and Revenants, but the worst part by far is the hitscan fire. At least I can dodge the other crap. Oh and we've got damage floor to contend with as well, why the hell not. Continuing to save-scum, I manage to get myself a Plasmarifle and Berserk pack but the damage floor and spawn-in swarm make quick work of my health. There's a switch I hit that lowers a pointblank Chaingunner and exposes more Imps. I kill them all and take a look at my health again: 1 point.

The caged Chaingunner has however done me one favor: dropped his weapon withing grabbing range. So finally armed with something better than the damn Shotgun (the Plasma runs out of ammo almost immediately), I try to figure out what the switch did. I decide to activate godmode for this part, just to figure out where to go, with intent to reload and deactivate it once I find out the path. I soon find that something deep within the damagefloor is a lift; it is literally impossible for me to reach and wait for this lift without dying. So I say fuck it and leave on the godmode till I'm on the lift.

Atop that lift? About 7 close quarters Imps and an Archvile in the distance. It is impossible for me to reach the corner cover from the Archvile fire thanks to the Imps blocking me, so basically I cannot complete the map without further cheating. And I have no desire to start it over again.

Marcaek is someone I've regularly engaged with on #doomtwid, he seems like a fun guy and personable. But I'm quitting this map, and honestly it feels like this wasn't properly playtested even slightly. DNF.

[Phobus]

MAP18:
My only prior experience with this map is a very-unfinished version that had basically no ammo and wasn't fully textured. Ammo balance still looks like it's on the tight side, but luckily for me I'm trucking through from 19 previous levels and therefore have bought all the tools I'll need with me. Chuck in mouselook and I've got such an advantage that I actually really enjoyed this map. The Cyberdemon and a few of the surprise encounters were pretty damaging, but with what was in the map I could patch up and keep on going, so although it seems like pistol starting is absolutely awful to experience, I had a blast :P The colour-driven aesthetic is pretty nice and just goes to show that you don't need to be realistic in map design at all to have something that is comfortable to navigate.

[dobu gabu maru]

MAP18: My experience stays right in line with the majority consensus here—I found this too frustrating and wound up skipping it when I got stumped figuring out how to get the blue key. I couldn’t find a way to pick up the RL at the start and apparently that was a big mistake, as I was unable to take out a lot of the baddies in the big arena (they were too high up for the PG to be of worthwhile use without mouselook). I don’t think it’s a terrible level (the simplistic theme is pretty neat) but I really didn’t want to see it through to the end by the 5th time the AV burned me as I was just peeking around. It might be a tie between this and MAP10 for being the least fun so far.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP18: Black and Blue by Marcaek
95% kills, 1/2 secrets

This map is frustrating as all get-out. Either 1) Marcaek is some sort of Doom God and doesn't realize it, 2) he doesn't playtest his maps, or 3) he didn't give any thought to pistol-start balance. Right from the start, the bullshit starts by putting shotgunners on a ledge above you with only a pistol to take them out with. Then comes a nice little room where you get locked in while 8 imps descend upon you in near-melee space. With only a single shotgun, it's impossible to kill them without taking damage, and even coming in around 75/200, I kept leaving at below 25 health at best.

Thankfully, ammo isn't really a problem after that (though you can run out of rockets if you're not conservative with 'em), but there's still bullshit like placing an Arch-Vile at the end of a long hallway where there's no defense and no way to kill him quickly (as there's imps in the way, and the player still only has a single shotgun) so you're completely at the whims of how dumb the AI is. Come to think of it, the lift that leads you there is also very poorly designed... it doesn't have a regular lift texture or a button, just looks like another normal black wall. Ran around for quite awhile before finally figuring that out. Add on top of that the large number of snipers and damaging floor everywhere (even more dangerous considering how low health you'll be for most of it) and you've got pretty craptastic gameplay.

Aesthetically, it's not that great either. The blue/black theme is an interesting one, but the textures here are kinda kitschy looking (and create some problems such as the aforementioned lift). I'm also not a fan of the cage misalignments. Oh, and the secret I found did nothing except give me a shortcut back to an earlier part of the map (with nothing worthwhile inside it). Yay.

[Solarn]

MAP19, "The Axe Murderer's Domain" by Chris Hansen. Played in prBoom+.

I was kind of afraid for my judgment going into this map. After that previous one, almost anything would have seemed good. The Axe Murderer's Domain wasn't almost anything. It was actually a pretty good map. It wasn't without its errors, and I did acutely feel like I was in a 2048 by 2048 box, but it used the available space well and remained enjoyable throughout. It did ratchet up the intensity quite a bit though, with attacks coming in from a lot of angles and precious few places to hide and regain your breath at the start, and some quite difficult traps going forward, often requiring me to retreat to safer ground and pick off the new enemies one by one. It did hit one personal peeve of mine, one that I had to contend with in the previous map as well: unavoidable hurtfloors. Here, it was just a small lava flow in one part of the map, but it's still a dick move. It's not fun, it's not clever, it's basically a gate saying "you must lose this much health to enter here".

Overall, it was still a fun map and if anything I'm probably too harsh with it. Without Map 18 hitting all of my mapping buttons extra hard just previously, I probably wouldn't have even noticed them here.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 18 -- Black and Blue - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets
Looks like I and Demonologist are in the minority here, I kinda like this, although it's fair to say that it's definitely not the sort of map I'd want to play every day. Moreso than any other map I've played in the last few months, it also really underscores the schism between the mouselook/non-mouselook and continuous play/pistol-start dichotomies; everything that makes this map what it is disappears in a puff of smoke (which some might well argue is a good thing) if you use mouselook and play continuously, to whit. I actually played an earlier mostly-finished version of this (in standard -cl 9 settings) before MAYhem2048 came out....made it past the cyberdemon in my FDA, and then had the game 'Signal 11' on me, a real kick in teeth. Just as well, though, as I recall being badly hurt at the time, and almost certainly would have died a horrible death in the last ambush. Suffice to say it was tough at the time, and not a whole lot seems to have changed, although I believe Marcaek actually added slightly more health (by 2-3 stimpacks or so) and maybe a speck more ammo than I remember that version having. The biggest change is that he seems to have decided that, come Hell or high water, the player will NOT indefinitely ignore the cyberdemon; try skipping him and see what eventually happens, suffice to say the results are 'cheeky.' All that being said, the change that makes the biggest difference in the map's overall impression is simply that the shift towards the starry night sky away from the orange one the old version had did the map a world of good aesthetically; I think the abstract visual theme is interesting and I really like that blue/black checkerboard tile for some reason, but that glaring orange up above prevented the theme from gelling more than I realized until seeing it this way.

I can see why a lot of players don't like the action here, as it's a combination of miserliness with supplies and highly spiteful placement of a relatively small number of monsters (or at least only a few are out and about at any one time, anyway). The result is a pace to the action that one could almost describe as 'tantric'--it's all about delayed gratification. The monsters are positioned in such a way that they harass you and keep you from getting comfortable; there are places where you can hang around and peck them to death, but most of those places are in the field of fire of other, distant monsters well out of autoaim range to keep you from becoming too complacent. What this means is that you've got to put up with the harassment until such time as firing lanes open up to you (although it really is best to play it safe with the chaingunner ledge and the imps that initially block the run to the SSG, if nothing else); once they do so, most of the creatures can be eliminated with ruthless efficiency (notice how proportionately generous the supply of rockets is in comparison to just about every other kind of item). In a sense, the style of the thing placement seems geared to punish you more for trying to play it safe than for putting up with the monsters' bullshit. I've seen a lot of maps do this, but most of them accomplish it with multi-layered boobytraps, monsters that sneak up on you from afar, or things like that, whereas this one accomplishes it mainly through attrition-factor and tactical deployment of static monsters--very interesting.

There are clever little wrinkles to the proceedings that add some character and variability to the play experience, as well--for example, it's not difficult to sequence-break getting the blue key, which doesn't harm/break the map but does change the order in which certain monsters appear and certain items can be gotten. There's also the matter of the first secret, which at first almost seems like it's saying "Yeah I'm pretty useless, but I'm really easy to find, so whaddya want from me?"....but it's not useless at all! With some lateral thinking, it turns out that this secret is actually Marcaek's greatest gesture of mercy, as it gives you a pretty reliably safe/efficient way to handle most of the cacos/cyberdemon fight. Then there's the matter of the megasphere secret, truly a GIANT "Fuck you!" to pistol-starters, haha. That's just unapologetically mean-spirited (never mind the continuous players, they enjoy enough luxuries as it is!), and I can't help but admire it.

There are still some issues here......for example, I still don't really like the way the single biggest pile of health (the three medikits under the chaingunner ledge) is placed despite Marcaek's explanation of it to me, the telegraphing of a certain lift is arguably pretty questionable, and the second arch-vile still seems like he's only going to be a factor for the most astronomically inattentive of players, but for the most part I find the map's slow (and rather painful) burn appealing....in moderation! Actually, now that I think about it, I wonder what the HMP skill setting is like.....perhaps most of the issues that make UV so stressful are significantly less pronounced there?

[joe-ilya]

MAP19
That map looks cool but plays frustrating because of the lack of health. It's almost like the previous map, only plays nicer and more clean and also looks cool as I said at the beginning of this review.
I found all the secrets, I forgot to tell you I'm a real looker, unless there's no clue, not saying there wern't any, there were.
The map just needs two megaspheres and the amount of the health in this map would be perfect. I also dislike techno MIDIs on non-tech levels, they just don't fit.
4/5

[Demonologist]

Map19 - “The Axe Murderer’s Domain” by Chris Hansen
Very good one. Multilayered interwined progression line, plenty of areas to visit and overlook from various spots, enemies taking advantage of higher ground - everything shows extremely competent usage of space provided. And this map doesn't feel cramped, where it lacks space it compensates with several levels you may or may not traverse, but still see them in any case, and they're often occupied with bloodthirsty adversaries. Opposition is quite manageable, though there are some tougher places (that archvile nearly killed me, damn). This map is much longer than it may seem, and I like it since it's achieved by clever planning rather than lots of backtracking and switchhunting. And visuals - they're absolutely gorgeous. This is hands down an impressive work. Excellent, Chris!

[Phobus]

MAP19:
This map feels like the sequel to Memfis' map, in that it's good looking, uses roughly the same theme, makes solid use of the space available and is relatively niggardly with health. It's a lot more dense in terms of layout and doesn't have quite as expansive a backdrop, but I'd put them both on the same pedestal as two of the best maps in the set (thus far).

[mouldy]

Map19 - “The Axe Murderer’s Domain” by Chris Hansen

Very lovely looking map with ingenious layout and clever secrets. The opening gameplay is a trifle harsh until you get a feel for where things are. There's a lot of shelf snipers that are tempting to ignore, but those imp fireballs have a habit of chipping away at your health, and health is fairly thin on the ground in the first half of the map. I think without the secret soulsphere I'd have struggled a bit. The way the areas interconnect with lifts and bridges is quite delightful, there is a bit of round-the-houses navigation to get back up if you fall down, but its not too painful. Fighting is fairly low-key, but made interesting by the complexity of the environment. Excellent map.

[dobu gabu maru]

MAP19: Hansen continues the trend of mercilessness, giving the player no reprieve in the… Axe Murderer’s Domain…? Well, the titular criminal seems to be long gone but his demonic consorts remain to hound the player. Like with Eternal’s map there’s a great sense of fluidity and interconnectivity here, using a vast amount of space that never exceeds the limit. That and the visuals make this quite a beauty. Plus it never gets overly frustrating. Frantic and fun map.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP19: The Axe Murderer's Domain by Chris Hansen
95% kills, 0/3 secrets

Agree with Phobus that this map feels like it belongs in a set with Memfis' - very similar texturing theme/style, and similar gameplay mechanics with lots of snipers and little health. I wasn't having too much trouble at first, but eventually the lack of health caught up to me by the time I reached the red key area (taking care of the imps/revenants in that area took me several re-tries since I had a save state at 3 health). Lots of good use of areas outside the 2048 bounding box to make the map feel larger, although sometimes the limitation was apparent (mainly because of how square it is along the boundary wall). Pretty fun map... the only thing that really gave me pause was there's a lot of invisible wall chicanery going on near the end that prevented me from hitting the chaingunners near the exit (or them from hitting me).

[Seele00TextOnly]

Map19 - “The Axe Murderer’s Domain” by Chris Hansen

By virtue of not being the previous map, I find myself being satisfied already right off the bat. Grab a Chaingun and snipe a bunch of Imps; the place looks pretty nice btw. Navigate the complex, pick up an SSG. The Blue Key fight can get pretty nasty, but i had luck focusing down the Archvile right away then cleaning up the rest. Eventually I end up in a library and find a hidden switch that opens a teleport. Funny enough, if you haven't killed the Manc yet (which I'm waiting on a RL for) you can easily port yourself into getting killed by his fire at the Soulsphere, without having picked up the item yet. This comically happened to me many, many times.

Anyway, with that successfully managed and out of the way, I proceed through the next door and get ambushed by Revs. The bridge that the Arachnotron spawned next to can really interfere with the Chaingunners that eventually appear up in those alcoves. The fences also really prevent the PE that comes from being very effective, as the Lost Souls just get stopped and cannot attack. Red Skull in hand, I Exit.

I found myself really wanting the Rocketlauncher for the whole map, and was kind of disappointed it never made a non-secret appearance. The only secret I did get was the Soulsphere, so I dunno if it even shows up at all. Taking out those two high up Hellknights and the Mancubus without the RL is a bit of a chore. Decent map.

[Steve D]

Map16 – Master Plan by Sfoz911 (pistol-start) - DNF. Death Count - 12

Map16 – Master Plan by Sfoz911 (continuous) - Kills - 100, Items - 66, Secret - 66. Death Count - 2

UV Risen3D

Catch-up time.

You may well ask why I DNFed a map when I only got killed 12 times, given that I've died 62 times completing one of cannonball's maps, and 39 times completing a map a little further along in this mapset – enjoying myself immensely in each as I died my way to victory.

Well, I wasn't enjoying myself on pistol-start of this map, which I guess puts me in a minority here. I found the map to be very deficient in ammo, and very much loaded with high-HP snipers that I couldn't kill owing to said lack of ammo. Further, health seemed a bit sparse given the circumstances.

However, after opening a saved game at the end of Eternal's Map32 – and fighting the Cyb again – I played this map continuously, and it's possible that what happened to me on pistol-start is an odd occurrence.

So what was it that happened? Well, I fought The Blue Key Crossfire Kill Zone of Death, losing many pelts in the process. I then killed the Archie that teleported in on the opposite side when I grabbed said blue key, and the 3 Mancs that came to say “Hello, jagoff, we're here to kill yer ass,” as well. Imagine my surprise when I leaped down to a previous area only to find a couple Manc snipers and 2 sniping Chaingunners waiting for me, which put me in a foul mood because I knew I had to go up the lift, and up there waiting for me was an Archie and everything I had killed on my way to the BKCKZOD. I didn't have enough ammo to kill everything. I mean, I simply didn't have it. Maybe 5 rockets max, about 10 shells and 13 bullets. I couldn't kill all the snipers plus everything waiting for me at the top of the lift. I also could not replay the last fight in the BKCKZOD because I had saved my game after emerging triumphant. So now, at best, I could take out all the snipers and pray for some infighting up above. Or I could try to ignore the snipers and ride up the lift to see what would happen.

Well, I rode up the lift and got torched instantly. I tried that a few times, and got torched every time, because Archie was right there and started the burn before my head even poked up. This was thus the opposite of of what happened in Z0k's map, where I had Archie and his Revvie buddies waiting for me at the bottom of a lift. I was, to say the least, a bit chagrined to encounter this situation twice in a single mapset.

Plan B – as in Z0k's map, it was Camp The Lift time. I killed the Chaingunner snipers and danced figure-8s to avoid the Manc fire – with wretched success – and worked the lift to kill whatever came down. Of course, the one thing that did not come down was that fucking Archie, for whom my rocket launcher was primed and ready, so switch-off to kill Imps, or Sergeants, then die to a Chaingunner. Start over, then die to Manc snipers. Again and again. Finally, Archie comes down and I have at 'im, leading to a double-KO. Well, that's what SteveD skill gets you. ;D So over and over again, and finally Archie comes down and this time I kill his ass and survive. It still ain't gonna be easy. At least 1 Revvie and Chaingunner and assorted jagoffs are up there waiting for me, and I'm out of rockets, down to about 4 shells, and 0 bullets, with 24% health and no armor, but maybe I'll kill something fast and get ammo off the dead. So up I go and . . . and . . . WTF, another Archie? Are you kidding me? Roast SteveD was served in Hell.

At this point, I despair-quit, because the situation was hopeless.

I was pretty damned angry at the map by this point, so I decided to chill and attack it later on HNTR. I did make a bit of a start on ITYTD, but decided I was fed-up by now with tight-ammo Archie-spamming maps. Tight ammo and Archies is a devilish combination if the Archies have time to resurrect stuff, especially a lot of meat that doesn't give ammo when it dies. So I decided to do a continuous play.

As you can see, the map was pretty easy on continuous, gaining only 2 SteveD pelts. I had enough ammo to kill everything as I encountered it, including those Manc snipers that pissed me off so much. And when I rode up the lift that first time, there was 1 Archie, who torched me as I poked my head up, and nothing else. Hmmmmmm. At this point, I had to refight the end of the blue key kill zone because of my save status, so, saving before going up the lift, I this time encountered . . . absolutely nothing. No Archie at all, just some corpses. Hmmmmmmm.

Archie finally appeared, teleporting in when I grabbed the Blue Armor and got killed in a sandwich of Manc, Archie and maybe a Hell Knight. I forget, or maybe it was 2 Mancs. I was ready the next time with a cell weapon and went on to victory.

I'm not sure how to feel about this map. The gameplay was completely different in my 2 passes, 1 of which saw me stuffed at a lift by Archies, and one of which saw me ride up to find 1 Archie, and the second time to find none. Maybe I did something different in the blue key area in the 2 different games, and then between 2 different saves? I can't explain the variability. A Risen3D issue, perhaps?

I think the map needs a cell weapon and more shells, bullets and rockets. I think it looks very good, excellent work in the traditional style, but I just didn't enjoy it much.

[Seele00TextOnly]

I was going to get a head start on Map20 seeing as I'm moving over the next couple days, but the map is unplayable in the version linked in the OP. I'm using Zandro but I doubt that's the issue. Anyone else having similar issues, or are we skipping this one, or what? Is there a fixed version that can be linked here in the thread?

[Steve D]

Map17 – Besieged by Obsidian (continuous) - Kills - 104, Items - 14, Secret - 33. Death Count - 5

UV, Risen3D

I believe I died 11 times when I first playtested it. I seem to like this map more than most.

I was annoyed by the start-puzzle, and in fact, I had to open the map in DB2 to figure it out the first time. Not the great puzzle-solver, am I? ;D

This time I did not punch the Revvies, even though I enjoyed it during the playtest. I had to activate mouselook to shoot the switch giving access to the yellow key area, where the trivial opposition was handily dispatched, then on to the big open blue key room and its easy Manc/Caco infight spectacular. We note Hell Knights insta-popping out of stone (rolls eyes)

The map is good-looking, and as DotW noted, its dark appearance and well-chosen heavy music give it a menacing atmosphere. I also think the night sky helps intensify this by increasing the overall darkness.

Okay, then, on to the outer walkway, fight some little jagoffs, get the red key and grab the PG, have a decent fight against PEs, then come back and fight some Revvies, and then get killed my first time through the Caco/PE fight. A bit embarrassing, that, given my firepower.

Now it's on to the big finale in the ground below. Hell yeah, more Hell Knights – and assorted jagoffs – insta-popping out of the ground! Kill all that stuff, grab the SSG, start rocketing the Archies that teleport in at a distance, which makes it impossible – for me, at least – to charge them for a quick kill. Thus, they manage to start resurrecting stuff, but thankfully, I'm on a continuous play in preparation for the next map, so I just unload, but 1 Archie survives long enough to torch me as I dither a bit in the open. I then suffer 2 “Good at Doom!” suicides as I dodge behind the Commander Keen building before finally killing everything. Then, my most hilarious death. I go right up to the door and blast Mr. Keen with my SSG. He explodes and kills me! ;D Shit, that put a smile on my face. ;)

I tarry a bit too long after backing up and killing him the next time, so the SpiderQueen herself teleported in and commenced to filling me with holes. My health rapidly vanishing, I opened a saved game just in time to avoid death, and thus proceed to Obsidian's second unmarked exit in the mapset. Bad boy! ;D

So yeah, Obsidian makes gimmicky maps with weird puzzles and could concentrate more on nice, flowy combat, but that's what makes Obsidian Obsidian and not, say, another run 'n gunner like me. I think this map succeeds on looks, atmosphere, and gameplay good enough to keep me interested. I liked it.

[Steve D]

Seele00TextOnly said:

I was going to get a head start on Map20 seeing as I'm moving over the next couple days, but the map is unplayable in the version linked in the OP. I'm using Zandro but I doubt that's the issue. Anyone else having similar issues, or are we skipping this one, or what? Is there a fixed version that can be linked here in the thread?

What was broken?

[Seele00TextOnly]

I guess that means it's fine on your end? On my end it says lines 0 through 4, 10, 27, 853, 1501, 1531, 2534, 2599, 2608, 2817, 2965, 3277, and 3696 all lack front sector, front side, and front sidedefs. It says 'you need to fix these lines to play this map'.

[Marcaek]

That actually *is* Zandro's fault, heh. A patchwad could probably be provided if the lines in question are part of some kind of visual trick and fixing them would break said trick.