MBF compat beastiary additions

[Tango]

I've been messing around with/using a custom BEX patch for the maps I've been doing recently, and I've made some additions/changes to the bestiary but there's still more I want to do. basically...

- former human is a plasma zombie; like the ones from Scythe 2 except not really as fast. health is about chaingunner's, I think
- baron of hell is now a cyber baron; sometimes it throws two baron balls in quick succession, and sometimes it fires a rocket with a long wind-up. health is about the same, I think
- ss guy is now a flying mancubus (Greater Mancubus); has two attack patterns, each of which is a one-two punch combo with two of the mancubus attacks. health is about equal to a mancubus

I want to include a sort of mini-boss monster (ie a little less threatening than a cyberdemon, less health but still pretty meaty) and I'm willing to replace pain elemental, lost soul, and maybe spiderdemon. keen is still unused so there's space there. on top of all this I've freed up a handful of other frames. something like the bruiser demon would be possible; I'm thinking of turning the lost soul into an exploding comet projectile for him, with another attack being a string of imp balls or something fired at different angles at the same time (using the turn function, which I still can't seem to figure out).

any suggestions/thoughts on what else could fit in well with the rest of the bestiary?

[Phml]

Flying mancubus... Sounds hilarious. I guess you've gave it a mechanized lower body similar to the spiderdemon, but instead I'm picturing this big fat blob with tiny angel wings flapping furiously on its back.

[Obsidian]

-The Supreme Fiend from R667 might be a good addition, but you'll have to nix one of the other monster's projectiles in order to accommodate it's BFG attack.

-The Haymaker from UAC Ultra is a neat miniboss-tier monster, albeit a bit simple.

-The Scythe II Afrit: a bit overused, but it doesn't use up too many important frames.

These are all the ones I can think of at the moment. Will think of more.

[Doom_Dude]

Phml said:

...big fat blob with tiny angel wings flapping furiously on its back.

I nearly spit out my coffee. LOL.

How about if the Mancubus fired homing projectiles?

[Drilbur]

Phml said:

Flying mancubus... Sounds hilarious. I guess you've gave it a mechanized lower body similar to the spiderdemon, but instead I'm picturing this big fat blob with tiny angel wings flapping furiously on its back.

Remember the Assault Commanders from Duke Nukem 3D? That what I picture when I think of a flying Mancubus.

[Da Werecat]

I'm struggling with MBF dehacked right now. Not sure what to think about it. You can spawn just about anything with one code pointer, but you can't launch it as a projectile.

So if you want an original projectile attack, you still need to butcher some monster for it. The only alternative I can see is to A_Spawn something non-solid (otherwise it will stuck in the monster), sentient (otherwise it will just hang in the air), and probably suicidal. Hacky as hell.

Just thinking aloud.

Phml said:

I guess you've gave it a mechanized lower body similar to the spiderdemon, but instead I'm picturing this big fat blob with tiny angel wings flapping furiously on its back.

Make him spit powerups instead of fireballs, and you'll get The Blerch. :)

[Quasar]

It's why very early on (back around 2001-2002-ish) I tried to advocate for adoption of a wider set of standard action functions, in particular I tried to get PrBoom to implement some of EE's then-new functions like A_BulletAttack, A_CustomPlayerMelee, and A_MissileAttack. But PrBoom development ground to a halt, PrBoom+ took a "furious compat" standpoint to the point where apparently adding new pointers to BEX could somehow allegedly cause demo desyncs (...), and ZDoom, which I was not in communication with, implemented the same functions but in a completely different way (arguably superior, but incompatible).

As a result, there's no higher common denominator for DEH/BEX hackery than MBF, except to the extent that EE now supports a growing collection of DECORATE action functions. Two ports is not enough to make a standard though.

[Tango]

there's definitely something very satisfying about sort of hacking things around to get what you want, but really yeah it seems silly that all didn't happen :/ would really have been nice for just a few more basic functions. I'm really not sure why of all things A_Mushroom was added in MBF but a generic projectile function was not.

@Phml not quite hahaha. he has a sort of tentacle-dangly flesh bottom. the sprites are really nicely done, I honk maybe Eriance did the base and zrrion did the rest. don't remember, I have it somewhere. I think it looks pretty great though

@Obsidian actually yeah the Supreme Fiend is one I was really considering. I could use the lost souls to make the flying robot bomb things, and otherwise probably have just the rocket and plasma burst attack. not sure if I would rather use the lost soul for something else though. yesterday actually I took the... Aracnorb Queen sprites (in the submissions forum on R667, forget who did them but they're good) and tried adding a plasma spray attack using the turn function, but for some reason he always just aims every shot at the player. not sure what isn't working exactly.

@DD yeah I think in some form I want another monster with homing stuff. I am happy with the flying mancs as is but that could change :p

@Da Werecat yeah I was trying to figure out how I could use the spawn function somehow. I can't think of anything non hacky aside from like... land mines or something. actually! not a new projectile but I think you could use that to make a monster with multiple forms. first form death insta disappears and spawns form two. I would have to test this but I think it could work. if nothing else I might go for the Afrit/Bruiser demon, give it a new mildly explosive comet to replace the lost soul, and mix in some other manc/impball flurries or rev projectiles. if what you mentioned can somehow work for new projectiles, maybe using the lost soul attack codepointer somehow, that'd be awesome.

if it works I'm considering even doing that for some lesser monsters like an alternate demon or something. get its health low enough and it loses and arm and becomes faster or something. dunno.

[Da Werecat]

Tango said:

Aracnorb Queen sprites (in the submissions forum on R667, forget who did them but they're good) and tried adding a plasma spray attack using the turn function, but for some reason he always just aims every shot at the player.

Most of the monster attacks (if not all, I didn't research it) are calling A_FaceTarget on their own.

void A_BspiAttack(mobj_t *actor)
{
  if (!actor->target)
    return;
  A_FaceTarget(actor);
  P_SpawnMissile(actor, actor->target, MT_ARACHPLAZ);  // launch a missile
}

Tango said:

actually! not a new projectile but I think you could use that to make a monster with multiple forms.

Yeah, I was thinking about that too. I didn't test it yet, but I think it should work.

[Gez]

Da Werecat said:

Most of the monster attacks (if not all, I didn't research it) are calling A_FaceTarget on their own.

IIRC, the only exception is A_BruisAttack. This is why sometimes a baron or knight can be seen throwing a fireball out of its ass.

[Tango]

wow what. wow that makes the turn function basically useless then

[MFG38]

Doom Dude said:

How about if the Mancubus fired homing projectiles?

Revenants and their homing rockets were enough.