The DWmegawad Club plays: Back to Saturn X E2

[Demon of the Well]

Dobu: A lot of the deal with E1 (or the parts of it I personally complained about, anyway) wasn't so much a question of overall difficulty per se, but rather that it appeared to have been consciously reigned in in places, presumably in order to keep the set from having a staccato difficulty curve. Not so much an issue of seeming soft, as of seeming softened in places, if you see what I'm saying. One of the major criticisms of E1--and one that I don't personally agree with--was that it seemed 'samey', right? That is, homogenized in terms of both aesthetics and gameplay. I didn't feel that way about it at all....the gameplay/combat tendencies of individual authors seemed quite distinctly evinced to me. But because I could see the authors' personal styles clearly, I could also see a number of combat encounters in many of the maps that seemed like they were softballed to some degree relative to what they'd have been if they'd turned up in the authors' own solo mapsets. There's not much gameplay in E1 I would say is actually "bad", but I guess there's this bit of psychological disquiet when you run into something by a mapper who you're used to having serve you Coke, and what you get in this particular instance is Diet Coke instead. You mentioned Tarnsman's map as an outlier in that regard, and indeed it was, but I think it did the mapset as a whole a lot of good, a difficulty spike in the middle of the set to help enliven the flavor of battle in the midgame up 'til the point where the combat did start becoming more pronounced, in the last cluster of maps or so. I guess part of that's a function of the way I play Doom, though. Even when I'm playing a multi-map set that aims for a strong sense of thematic and experiential cohesion (as BTSX does), I still find myself looking at individual maps as microcosms of sorts, so combat encounters that seem like they shy away from their full potential--even if they do so in pursuit of a larger goal--are hard for me to ignore.

You're right about the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" thing, though, of course. All you've gotta do is read through any past DWMC thread to see that, I reckon.

Also, thanks to pizzabob for the heads up about the Help screen, I'd probably have missed that entirely.

Map 06 -- Useless Inventions - 105% Kills / 85% Secrets - FDA, 0 Deaths (almost good-at-Doomed myself once, though). Uses beta 1.
Right, a much more mundane setting to this one--it's simply a backwater UAC storage depot of no particular significance (presumably because it's full of crap that nobody really needs), located near some scant alien ruins that are well on their way towards returning entirely to dust....there's some kind of poignancy to that particular juxtaposition, I'm sure, but I can't quite seem to pull it out today. Anyway, reminiscent of the kindly old mancu-hermit from Vader's E1 map, there are also a couple of easter eggs in this one: what I assume is a nod to 'Postal Blowfish' from E1 here, and a fourth wall-breaking ad piece of sorts for the project as a whole. Other than that, the most notable thing about the map is that it seems to be full of Essel-ized versions of stock Doom textures, lending a subtle little quirk to what is otherwise a visually very understated outing, at least by the general standards of BTSX. And of Vader, for that matter--one thinks of his maps and tends to think of striking facades and complex vistas, but there's not much in the way of particularly impressive scenery here. This is partially a natural consequence of thematic choices (e.g. crate rooms will usually tend to look like crate rooms, not travel brochure photos), and perhaps partially vanilla limits making themselves felt in certain ways, but whatever the case, the 'street' area and some of the smaller warehouses represent some of the most utilitarian scenery in this WAD so far (or in E1 for that matter). I wouldn't say it's bad-looking--the assets are too attractive and the basic structure too sound for that--but it does seem like an outlier in that regard, somehow.

Plays pretty well, though, which is what's most important. In settings of this type, based on a tight cluster of discrete occupied buildings, I reckon the natural inclination for a lot of players is to methodically pick off enemies through windows, camp thresholds a lot, etc., but throughout 'Useless Inventions' Vader has taken measures to keep the battles from becoming too static. For example, try to camp out in the initial warehouse when you first see the mess out on the street, and the surprisingly large number of monsters present can flood in and corner you while your ammo rapidly runs out--you NEED that rocket launcher (at least on UV), so go out and get it! At other times we see cacos sneaking through high windows, staggered waves of monster repopulation, etc.--it's a small map with a layout that's really extremely simple at heart, but it's bloody, and it feels like the space is used well--I think the having more than one battle occur in the same place over the course of a map can be as useful in establishing a sense of location as anything pertaining purely to architecture and aesthetic. Also features some totally optional little side diversions for those that wish to take part in them, e.g. crate parkour, the easter eggs, the fairly involved red key secret (which I fail to complete in my FDA, but figured out in short order on a replay of the map), etc. What you get here is a lot of mileage out of not so much map, and I can't find much to complain about as far as that's concerned.

I will complain about the teleporter line out of the BTSX easter egg, though, unholy shit is that damned thing obnoxious. Hearing that's it there essentially as a chastity belt for vanilla compatibility does limit what can be done about it, unfortunately--my suggestion is to simply not put the mancubi in there at all (maybe have some cacos or PEs beam in and approach from the rocks instead if you want to keep a monster encounter), and perhaps to have that hidden teleporter line deposit the player much closer to the jump back into the secret than it currently does. I also kind of wished that the reward for completing the red key sidequest would involve significantly more fanfare than it actually does, but I've got no specific suggestions on that point.

[esselfortium]

On Useless Inventions' exteriors: the map ended up needing to get some of its aesthetic features trimmed down a bit, late in development after some easy-to-trigger overflows were discovered in the map. The indoor lights originally were smoother and nicer-looking gradients, all the buildings had some trim around their edges, and staircases were 8 units tall rather than 16. I took them out myself while Vader was on a several-months leave from the internet and we weren't sure if he was going to turn up again anytime soon -- I think with some more texturing tweaks outdoors the buildings could be made to look more detailed in spite of the limitations, but I wanted to avoid messing with the artistic intent any more than absolutely necessary to get it compatible (and time was already very tight at this point, so my options were limited).

[kmxexii]

MAP06 THE ISLAND OF USELESS INVENTIONS

right off the bat, something unusual. its an obligatory maze-like crate warehouse, an element i dont really remember from btsxe1. now i dont mind claustrophobic crate labyrinths, they usually have three dimensions and this one is no exception. there are a lot of monsters running around and as is usually standard the threats are zombies you can't see but that can see you and the lost souls which tend to be quiet and can float over those spaces. so you can spend some time cautiously clearing stuff and trying to find all of the layered secrets which should set you up for your next big move, party time in the city. i unleashed a lot of hell when i opened up that door but it's all in good fun, i think this was the first time i really felt challenged in the pwad, even if its bog standard clearing out pockets of entrenched monsters. it just works, plus is a nice contrast to the early cramped stuff. you have a lot of room to run but the T-shaped junction is slightly awkward to run around in and there a good bunch of snipers plus ground enemies like revenants to keep you busy. there is also like this seemingly never-ending trickle of cacodemons that puts constant aerial pressure on you; good touch.

the final room is a nice trap with the imps on either side plus the mancubi on the upper ledge. i guess if you know what you are doing and dont mind taking some time you can just take the cage dude from the ground on the north side but thats kind of boring. anyway it does a nice job of softening you up for the main event, a clusterfuck of revenants plus two archviles that in all honesty can be easily taken out from where they are with a little patience and a lot of rockets. id be more concerned about that group of cacos and pain elementals that comes out when you make for the exit area. the other ambush that was really fun involved dumping arachnotrons in that alleyway and i want to say revenants too, along with the skeletons guarding the red key with a few surprise guys on the ground. i was way more distracted by the screeching dudes standing on the balcony. oh yeah speaking of the red key, there is a whole bunch of optional shit in the map that is an a+ in my book. i got the red key pretty easy but figuring out what it was for took me awhile after which i had zero use for that handy plasma rifle.

UI is a good, clean map. the architecture doesnt stand out much since its got like fuckin boxes in 1/3 of the map but the layout in the final room is supercool plus it has a start to crate ratio monitor. there are also some sweet colonnades that show that the uac never learns anything if its gonna build storage facilities pretty much right on mysterious alien ruins. idiots. anyway its nice to breathe the open techbase air again

rating: 6/6/6 for showcasing the multidimensionality of cubes

[darkreaver]

map06: Crates.

0/10

[Velvetic]

MAP06 - "Useless Inventions" by Vader

Oh god, i was so lost at this map, until i found out you were supposed to go up the crates to get to the button to activate the lifts. Pretty awesome storage zone map that is considerably small for me.

[DooM Soul]

MAP 06

I want to start off saying that this map tricks you.

I now have a tendency to pistol-start MegaWads and only save during large area connections or when obtaining key cards. That said, the opening storage hangar gave me the impression that I was going to be going through a box maze; the Berserk wasn't there either, so it was a very different change of gameplay.

At least, until I opened the door.

Imagine my surprise when Cacos, zombies, Revenants, and Spectres swarmed the street as I tried to gather my composure of being blind-sided by the map design. Imp and Commando snipers kept me going until I got the Launcher, and from then on it was a blast.

The final area is a definite hardball thrown at the player, and it gave me a slight panic once I discovered Archviles showed up at every switch pull. After a few deaths, I managed to grab the Super Shotgun and keep the enemy at bay until I got to the exit.

Good level.

[mouldy]

MAP06 - "Useless Inventions" by Vader

An unexpected detour into a ghostly industrial estate. Good old crate mazes. Fighting was quite a grind at the start until I discovered running wild into the streets to find a rocket launcher. That helped take care of the initial caco influx, but once rockets ran dry I found myself really hankering for SSG. There are quite a few revenants kicking around, and while chaingun takes care of them reasonably well, the ammo doesn't last, and there was much plinking with shotgun to be had. Finally got secret(ish) SSG after yellow key, and really needed it for the final battle (although you get a free one there anyway). The real bastard in that exit area is the double PEs with their caco buddies, plus inadvertantly summoning everything at once if you are unlucky. Some juicy mayhem to be had in that room.

There are some infuriating secrets dangled just out of arms reach, I gave up trying to figure out the red key and the soulsphere. The jumping over the ledge into the ruins and then magically teleporting out is a bit confusing, and breaks the 4th wall a bit as it is clearly a case of "you aren't meant to go over there". I'd just stick a fence there or something. Some trees and a blocking line maybe? Anyway, good map, frustrating in places, though not in the getting killed sense, more in the "locked doors everywhere and secrets I cant find" sense.

[Surreily]

MAP06: Useless Inventions 100% kills, 100% secrets
This one starts out fairly easy. I had to be careful due to enemies being around every corner as well as hiding atop some of the taller crate stacks sniping me off. Some revenants teleport in shortly after, which again are no big deal thanks to the crates. I went and participated in some classic Doom crate climbing action and found three of the seven secrets in this first area! After fooling around in the crate maze, I went outside and noticed that this map is one of those city maps.

From this point, I carefully cleared the streets and surrounding buildings. More fights with some revenants and cacodemons follow. Eventually, I find the yellow key and enter the final area. Damn! The difficulty just got pumped up to eleven! Well, maybe not that much, but still, it's pretty nasty with the ocean of revenants and the two arch-viles! I died a few times here and had to reload my save to get through. At this point, I believe I had about four of the seven secrets, so I did a bit more exploring to find the remainders. Eventually, I find all seven and sprint to the exit.

The optional areas were neat. There was that hidden crate maze area hidden in the first room, then there was a secret area with the red door and the plasma rifle. The secrets were very well hidden in this map - especially that one switch that lowers the wall to reveal the red door.

Some crazy detail work went into the crate areas to make them look as 3D as possible. Lots of different crates stacked up in different ways. There are some nice subtle lighting effects in use too. The outdoor areas looked rather blocky in comparison, but were still fine - I must remember that these maps are designed for vanilla play, so there can't be too much detail in a single area!

I think this is my favorite map so far. Great work Vader!

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP07 Shrine to the Dynamic Years (Athens Time Change Riots)

A Green Herring map. Never would have crossed my mind until I saw the area that resembled Nectar of the Gods from CChest4. Didn't like that level though. Here, I think this level was alright. Good ammo amounts. Most of the enemies are in groups of three, like three shotgun guys in a hallway. That happens a lot, making it easy to just use one rocket to blow them away. The watery stuff is pretty neat, as are the blue stuff hanging around. Didn't find anything too bad, until that one ruins-like area. If you know me I hate platforming and this one just so happened to have that. Flipping the switch to get out of there had me KO'd due to the pain elementals though. Going through that wasn't too important although there was one crusher trap, I managed to dodge it as well as the hellknight who followed. Green Herring's coordinated teleport traps from MAP12 of CChest4 make minor appearances after the blue key grab, and then after the blue door, where I assume the "shrine" is. It's kind of a test of endurance at this point, there's no turning back and there's tons of revenants and cacos attacking at this point, plus a couple of archies if you try to escape early. Spam rockets, and I win.

Bugs:
-Not really a bug, but more like an exploit. If I grab the blue key and decide to walk backwards instead of dropping into the first room, instead taking the door past the walkable pillars, I can skip the teleport ambush.

[esselfortium]

With regard to some of the development speculation going on, it's worth mentioning again that E2's theme was already decided and the majority of its levels were either already finished or well underway before E1 was released. When we first made the decision to split BTSX up into episodic releases, we were already aware that E1 would be the least thematically and conceptually diverse of the episodes. The hope was that we'd be able to have the next episode out much sooner than we did, so that they would be received as parts of a whole rather than individually.

@Getsu: I believe the MAP07 exploit you mentioned was fixed in beta 2.

[Woolie Wool]

This is one of the most keyboard-smashingly enraging maps I have ever played. Just...urgh.

MAP07: Athens Time Change Revenant Moshtravanganza (NOOOOPE/10)

I know some people find this sort of gameplay fun, but I didn't find this fun. This made me upset and angry. It starts of well enough, with some hectic but manageable fights (the first fight will give a nasty surprise to people who try to play defensively), but the ending...Jesus Christ. Yeah, it's an arena, fucking FULL of revenants and cacodemons and there's no cover that's defensible for more than a couple of seconds. Killing them was annoying but ultimately doable, but it's like the first taste of a glass full of rancid urinary tract infection piss, the Piss de Resistance is still to come. You flip the switch to raise the stairs to the exit and a METRIC SHITTON more revenants appear, and two archviles, and they start not only pounding your tender little asshole, but undoing all your hard work in the previous fight. It doesn't help that the layout of the encounter is basically backwards from the revs+archie encounter in MAP06, making it hard for you to hit them and very easy for them to hit you. I barely made it out in one piece, after multiple tries, but I did not enjoy overcoming this "challenge" ("torment" is closer to the way I feel about it). Please please please at least make it UV only and make the HNTR/HMP version play entirely differently, because FUCK. THIS. It's like I suddenly got thrown into the third episode of Alien Vendetta.

Oh yeah, and I am not playing on UV, so if you are on UV, it's probably going to be oh so much worse. If there are going to be a lot more scenes like this I don't know if I'll make it to the end. This just hurts, man, it hurts. At least get rid of the Hell Revealed sections on skills 2-3, give me a way out of it for the love of Christ!

Sure looks pretty with all those desolate stone ruins though. Protip: don't jump down the ledge after getting the blue key, turn around and go back the way you came. Unless you're going for UV Max, in which case, ha ha! Sucks to be you!

@Getsu: I believe the MAP07 exploit you mentioned was fixed in beta 2.

Damn it.

[dew]

Alright, I'll join with continuing my Playtester's War Journal. Let me preface with a bit of explanation.

mouldy said:

Was there a reason for these hub maps other than a story-telling device? Like a technical purpose or something?

Yup. BtSX started as a single megawad, but as essel kept bringing mappers on board, they started claiming more than one slot and soon the tentative maplist was overflowing, especially the medieval ep2. Everyone wanted to make a demonic shrine or two. There was no way we would axe promising, beautiful looking stuff, so we decided to split the works into three megawads. Originally we thought we'd release them one per month or something, haha. D:

Anyways, we had to decide how to sort them... three identical megawads with the same tech->goth->mystery progression? That way we'd compete with ourselves and people would compare our mappers against each other. Growing difficulty? The original aim was "roughly like the first two episodes of AV" and we almost immediatelly started having outliers from that rule, but we'd have to start with toddler easy and we'd still end at skepland-level cutthroat difficulty after that many maps. So we went with the thematic split and a slightly growing difficulty curve (local bumps aside). That way we could keep the future themes a mystery. Hype machine.

But there lied another issue - when the split happened, we only had enough e2 maps to go near the secret levels with e1 and e3 roughly at ten apiece and we wanted to go all the way to map20 to end things with the intermission text there. Again, rather naive plans in retrospect, what with the constant influx of new material from people like skillsaw or Tarnsman who hatch a map if they sit down for too long. So we had too few techbases (never enough of those) and we needed to stretch them out a little with skipmaps. Well, the thematic consistency was there, we were joking about the feeling of "a place" (we immediatelly refused the idea to tie all maps exit-to-start) and thus the e1 hub was born. And we fell in love with the idea that we immediatelly started brainstorming how the other episodic hubs should look like. Over time we got enough e3 maps to perhaps throw out the hubs entirely, but by then it was already a trademark.

[mouldy]

I see, so in a sense you could say the hub maps are like the fancy plastic packaging you get in packets of posh biscuits.

[dobu gabu maru]

Demon of the Well said:

so combat encounters that seem like they shy away from their full potential--even if they do so in pursuit of a larger goal--are hard for me to ignore.

That's quite understandable—very nice dialogue. There were a couple of points too where I think they could've amped up the challenge, but I'm still not convinced that the E2's approach is the right answer (for me, of course).

MAP07: If the theme of MAP02 was "barrels", this one definitely is "circle-strafe arenas". I found this map quite pleasurable (as opposed to poor Woolie) and felt like it was a primer on how to circle-strafe/promote infighting. Nearly every big trap has monsters that will duke it out with one another, and there's a lenient composition to ensure you never get surrounded. The quadruple PE threat was by far the most nasty surprised, as I rocketed myself into oblivion 7-8 times trying to clean them up before they became a hassle, before I ultimately just ran into the previous room and camped the doorway. The finale is a bit of a reprise of MAP06's ending, the big difference here being that you have plenty of room and rockets to deal with the horde (all without having to fire down at your feet too). Good stuff.

Oh, and in the room with the SSG I'd considering making the lift switch a little more noticeable, as it blends in with the wall too much.

[Steve D]

Map06 – Useless Inventions by Vader – Kills – 93, Items – 63, Secret – 57. End Health – 145, Armor – 24. Death Count – 12. Shells – 7, Bullets 150, Rockets – 19, Cells - 100

UV pistol-start, GZDoom, frequent saves, keyboard-only

Ah, it's Chapter 6 of Snipers, The Megawad! Or is it Ammo Starvation, The Megawad? Perhaps Revvie Overload, The Megawad?

No matter what you call it, this map was fun as hell for me. Demonologist and 40oz both suggested that this map was constructed prior to monster placement, and the monsters were then placed, I suppose, haphazardly, without any thought given to strategy. If so, I say, “Right on!” Only Vader knows for sure, but I always enjoy chaotic, unplanned fights, and am not necessarily so into planned-strategy, or aka, “Control-Freak Doom.” Not that I hate Control Freak Doom, but such maps tend to have a stop-start quality as you go from one scripted encounter to another, whereas this map by Vader is nice and flowy with all kinds of crazy shit happening and with multiple ways to play it. After my own miserable playthrough, I watched DotW's FDA, and he played it in a completely different way. I was cheering him on through that final battle, where I died several times. Vader damn near got him, but DotW found a way to win. Great stuff!

Okay, so let me babble about the map itself. I was thrilled to see a techbase again, since maybe I just haven't been feeling it that much with the MayaGoth theme, and I was okay with the crate maze, too. I like how the first shot brought that flood of Losties. I really love the Lost Souls, possibly the most annoying monster in Doom, but always good for unpredictable, sudden attacks. I was able to get the Blursphere and Zerk right away, so I was able to save on ammo by punching Pinkies, at least. As others have mentioned, enemy placement is diabolical, and on more than one occasion, I climbed up a crate only to be immediately blindsided by an Imp or hitscanner. So I would say this is one of the better crate mazes I've encountered. I foolishly failed to figure out the path to the secret Green Armor, and this cost me dearly.

Okay, so crates cleared, you open the door to the outside and all hell breaks loose. I foolishly tried to camp the door, backing up until I was assaulted from behind by Revvies dishing-out straight rights. I savescummed my way out of death, and on my next go I raced out into a hurricane of snipers, Spectres, Cacos and whatnot. Died. Found the RL and had my first “Good at Doom!” suicide via Spectre. So that's why those jagoffs are there! ;D Altogether, I suffered 5 “Good at Doom!” suicides in this map, meaning that I was taken out 7 times in straight combat, and 5 times to my own foolishness.

This is the kind of battle I like, just running around like a lunatic, under fire from every point of the compass, running face-first into Revvie rockets, getting hunted down and spat to death by Cacos – yeah, gimme more! And oh, those snipers. The only maps I regularly play that rely so heavily on snipers are . . . my own. ;D The most evil sniper was the Chaingunner in Sector 350, slightly out of the playing field. I was celebrating my victory over the streets when he strafed me to death. Yeah, I'd forgotten about him. That was a funny death.

The final battle was a wowser. I started off well only to “Good at Doom!” myself to a Lost Soul when the gasbags arrived. I then died a few more times trying to kamikaze the Archies and Revvies in the open, and finally had to settle for fighting from the high ledge until I killed both Archies. Only then was I able to drop down and SSG the Revvies.

I agree with DotW, this final fight is fine as-is. It's a climactic battle, and was a lot of fun, IMO. So I died 5 times or so in this fight. BFD. This is Doom.

So I'll ask straight-out whether a design goal of this mapset was any or all of the following – 1) Lots of ledges with tons of snipers, 2) ammo-starvation and playing keepaway with the SSG, and 3) Revvies, lots of Revvies, and after that, add even more Revvies.

My only real complaints in this map, and the others so far, is the ammo starvation, since it can punish the player for doing what comes natural, killing all those snipers on the ledges. Also, forcing us to to Single Barrel Ballet with Revvies again and again does add a bit of difficulty, but also a slog factor since there's so many of the damned buggers and it takes longer to kill them. Doom pugilists like DotW have less to worry about on that score, but it's a PITA for this keyboarder. I had to do the single barrel dance with 3 Revvies in the street. Didn't take a hit, either, so I'm proud of my performance, but it took awhile. Paradoxically, once I got the SSG, my greater confidence tended to put me in more danger because I played more aggressively. Something to think about in case anyone else complains about holding back the SSG.

I did only a middling job on the secrets, but I did enjoy the health potion BTSX sign. I saw the Soulsphere but failed to figure out the parkour path, and I grabbed a cell pack but never found the Plasma Gun, or the red key and the paths it opens up.

All in all, a very cool map. My fave so far.

[dew]

Heh. Okay, catching up... no demos/solo-net videos this time, it was pretty time consuming and I don't have any time surplus to eat.

Playtester's War Journal, day 397: Shadow Port (Joshy, esselfortium, me)

One of the oldest maps with one of the wildest development histories. Joshy wanted to claim map01 of the originally planned megawad with it, but there were other plans for it and Shadow Port felt more like an e2 opener than a start for a techbase episode, not to mention its non-trivial gameplay that we thought was too scary for the introductory map. Everyone loved the visuals though. Until hawkwind rained on the parade when he ran it in chocolate. See, Joshy made a good effort to keep things under the visplane limit (although he brushed and I think even crossed it in several spots), but forgot about the segdraw limit. Sadly, those open complex sceneries are too good to be true under vanilla. Almost everything outside overflows and shows HOMs.

Second phase of development: Enter esselfortium. Joshy basically threw in the towel, because the restructuring and HOM squashing needed a significant amount of work. At this point (Feb 2012) Joshy was busy quiting Doom mapping forever, because he was going to go to an university and as we all know, university students have no free time for hobbies and study around the clock. So essel reworked the map to the version we know today and let me show respect for him managing to catch the spirit of the original, keep the open and airy feel, even improve the visuals and still keep it under limits. Let's not forget - essel pronounced the sector dick cliff at start, but the ship doesn't look like an automap dildo anymore. :P It's Nov 2012 now.

Third phase of development: Essel isn't sure how to place enemies to address some of the complaints, keep it Joshy enough while also speeding it up, because the map is now a map01 of the second megawad and needs to work as an opener, not a gritty fight. So I volunteer and start reworking gameplay. This is a new and weird experience, because I'm responsible for creating the gameplay, not bitching about it & showing what to improve. In Jul 2013 I handed in a 'zerk & chaingun version that keeps the SG from player and drops some excessive meat, because that's my idea of experimental fast gameplay. If that double-triggers you, I'm sorry. Also the smuggler crate is added. Half a year later Seele mentions that I am out of my mind, because the thing is a brutal ammo starvation hell where you run from chaingunner to chaingunner to pick up dropped clips and punching hitscanners is a common practice. So I czech'd my privilege and softened the map for y'all in July. The archvile in the exit room is deemed unnecessary and joins his brother in coop only.

So yeah, talk about mapping by committee and overlong development cycles. I also learned the terrible lesson of being directly responsible for everyone's fun. Fun Fact: The original version had just ONE monster teleporting out of a closet.


Playtester's War Journal, day 398: Underwater Explosions (Tango)

I'll keep it shorter this time. This map started as a non-BtSX thing Tango planned for his, brace yourselves, one-man megawad. HA HA HA! I think he made it 5 maps in before he scrapped the project and started reworking the barrel map with buttsexy textures. I'm sorry, I don't meant to put Tango down, but the idea of 32 Tango maps is outrageously out of this world. :)

Gameplay was never an issue with this map. It was such a cute little gimmick with perfect size to not grow old by the end, so all Tangs had to do was technical stuff. Fix VPO here, make sure elevator works right and the other one actually looks like an elevator. Very relaxed affair, this one was. Oh right, he reworked/added the exit. Originally you just jumped into a skyhole in the room where revs port in, but that setup was VP heavy, so he created that hilarious (and devious) exit battle. Tango rocks and his gimmick map should be the first major sign that BtSX isn't just serious techbases and taking cover behind crates while reloading (what). We know fun too!

[punnyone]

Map 7 - Shrine To The Dynanic Years - (Athens Time Period Between BTSX Episode Releases Riots)- 100% Kills/Secrets, HMP Skill.

Looking at this level via the automap, one could assume this is a brief level. In reality, "Shrine" is mostly arranged in two layers, a lower and upper one, so there is lots of revisiting earlier ground.

The texturing is primarily grey/white stone, with an emphasis on a number of nice looking natural caverns as opposed to say, shrines, (how ironic). The music track is excellent and I'm glad that once again, we have an atypical map 7. Due to all the running across gaps to nearby platforms, the map has a bit of an obstacle course feel.

Oddly enough, I found this to be one of the more balanced maps in the set. Don't get me wrong, there were some absolutely frustrating moments, (I'm looking at you Pain Elemental trap!), but I was able to survive most of these encounters due to the decent amount of cover/space, and ammo. Still wish I had a backpack though, :/

Overall, this is a good flowing and roughly survivable map. In addition to map 3 and to some extent, map 2, it has the most stable gameplay so far. Hopefully that trend will continue in Map 8 -

[mouldy]

MAP07 - "Shrine to the Dynamic Years (Athens Time Change Riots)" by The Green Herring

From warehouses to ye olde temple in a single leap, certainly can't accuse this episode of being unpredictable. Speaking of which, quite a different kind of map than what I would expect, unashamedly linear sequence of gameplay chunks, arranged like a series of mini arenas. It feels a bit like a very basic map that was given a lick of paint, but its still as fun as killing monsters generally is, especially when you are blasting caco swarms with rockets. Creeping towards slaughter gameplay in places, though of a reasonably friendly variety with ample space and weaponry to never feel overly threatened. I guess this is fair enough so as not to deter people who don't like slaughter scenarios, though from reading woolie wool's review it seems its still going to be controversial.

[Demonologist]

@ mouldy: You've copied the wrong map name.

MAP07 - "Shrine to the Dynamic Years (Athens Time Change Riots)" by The Green Herring
So, TGH. Following the path of this author is somewhat interesting. We see those clumsy maps from Community Chest 3 filled with homogeneous monster squads without any thought put into their placement, then we see something from speedmapping compilations that vary on many accounts, and finally - Nectar of the Gods from Community Chest 4, the one that still has those grind traits of its predecessors, but overall feels like a vast improvement. Why am I talking about all this? Well, because here you are - meet Nectar of the Gods, part 2. Ruins took Mayan approach this time, other than that - it's still pretty much the same formula. Gameplay changes between frequent 'monsters in front of you in groups' situations and some more hectic - and interesting - encounters, so while it's not great - it's not totally worthless, either. The final battle though... Just hide behind that exit pedestal and take out whoever is unfortunate enough to try to track you down. Archviles triggered by first staircase can't do much about that, either. I'd suggest rethinking this fight a fairly bit (I'd put a cyber on exit pedestal, plus some pain elementals to accompany cacos, and some ground mancs/arachs scattered throughout to complicate camping and running in circles, I also think that AVs should be introduced earlier, like, dropping down and making a few steps already brings them in; these are things to check out in-game afterwards, but I think it'd work better with some testing and adjusting than what's presented in here now), as it's not very exciting as it is.
No complaints regarding aesthetics though, I like the looks if this thing.

[mouldy]

Demonologist said:

@ mouldy: You've copied the wrong map name.

Oh yeah, I just copy and paste whatevers on the first page map list, looks like there are 2 map07s there.

[kmxexii]

MAP07 SHRINE TO THE DYNAMIC YEARS (ATHENS TIME CHANGE RIOTS) (THE WAR IS OVER)

baker gives us this short adventure level that traverses ancient ruins and wattery grottoes. it packs a punch tho and is probably the first map id say really gave me a run for my money. the start isnt bad at all, just some shotgun action, but when you make that break for the SSG youre suddenly up to your eyeballs in cacodemons. oh and i guess whatever stuff is sitting on the ground trying to eat your attacks. cacos are so good at filling up rooms and you have to be super-aware in high spaces since doomguy is infinitely tall. baker uses them to pretty good effect in shrine and they crop up a few more times. theyre still good in the second encounter but more of a sideshow in the finale (but one you still have to respect)

there are plenty of good threatening fights. right after the underground river you have to tackle revenants and hell knights in the grotto, and fast or youll be a dead space marine. the first outdoor ruins section starts out as one of those monsters in high places as living turrets which usually works well plus cacodemons and then when youre just about ready to get out a bunch of pain elementals in that open air. well not all at once but they do appear and you definitely have to contend with them. the main event is at the shrine itself tho and the gears start turning as soon as you make the blind drop with two different teleport streams of revenants with a cloud of cacodemons behind that basically says "no stop shooting skeletons". the shotgun guys in the back are a nice surprise; they'll either sneak up on you or catch you by surprise when you're running around the back your first time. theres also a cool teleport ambush at the end but tbh you can jump off the shrine and then rocket it to death so its not that crazy.

for some reason this gives me a vibe like herring's CC4 map, probably all the naturalistic stuff. the alien ruins are a nice touch and i like that early glimpse of the shrine (and later glimpse back at the starting area door), plus the relatively ornate starting area. lots of gorgeous waterfalls in the distance and even a badass ominous cave. stop to catch your breath or you might miss out!

rating: the charles atlas course with "dynamic tension" turned this into A BEAST OF A MAP

[Velvetic]

MAP07 - "Shrine to the Dynamic Years (Athens Time Change Riots)" by The Green Herring

What a name for a map huh! It starts normal, but then it turns into a nightmare. Holy sh*t that part with the 2 pain elementals is a total b*tch, i was being raped by thousands of lost souls, and that ending, hard as hell (which is quite fitting). A very nice debut of The Green Herring in the BTSX crew. Wanna play hard? BRING IT ON...

P.S. If people are saying that this map is hard, imagine if they play steeple of knives?

[Magnusblitz]

MAP07: Shrine to the Dynamic Years (Athens Time Change Riots)
100% kills, 1/2 secrets

Finally a crazy map name. :)

I actually played this across two sessions, so bit memory a bit fuzzy on the first part. Despite being mostly grey, it looks pretty nice... the start and the name had me expecting a bit more Greek-looking level, but it still looks like some fairly nice ruins. Map is quite a bit smaller than I expected from the monster count, I thought there would be two wings, but there's only the one, followed by battles on the final ziggurat.

Layout is pretty linear but still manages to remain interesting by dint of the path coiling upon itself and revisiting old areas above the original paths, which is a nice idea. Early on there's a couple annoying fights involving revenants in circle-shaped rooms. The toughest fights are probably in the middle room, where fighting the monsters requires getting out in the open (since it's all just shells/rockets), followed by a dastardly 4x Pain Elemental ambush. I'm glad I had a plasma gun from the last level, without it this battle would've been a bitch (and it wasn't easy even with it). The final battle actually isn't too bad since it's pretty easy to just circle around the ziggurat, especially from the AVs/revvies who can't come after you. The only annoying aspect is cacodemons floating too high.

It may have been in my mind because of reading Demonologist's comments, but TGH's monster placement is actually quite noticable as somewhat artificial. Monsters tend to get grouped together with their own kind... here's a wall of revenants, here's a wall of sergeants, here's a group of demons, etc. It's not necessarily bad (some of the encounters mix together quite well) but it does stick out a bit, especially after the third time you turn around a corner and blast away three sergeants.

Still though, no real complaints, combat was pretty fun and the map was about the perfect length for me. I agree with Demonologist that the last fight could use some punching up, though I wouldn't go as far as him. I'm thinking maybe just add an arch-vile or two on the ground floor as well, on opposite sides of the ziggurat, in order to provide the thread of resurrecting the enemies you just killed previous.

4/5

[Veinen]

Map06: Useless Inventions - FDA, recorded with b1.

Pretty good stuff I think. The layout in this one is nice and I really dig the extensive secrets; definitely felt like I was rewarded for exploring every nook and cranny. I'm the kind of guy that likes to solve puzzles so things like trying to find a way to the soulsphere and eventually finding it, is pretty satisfying for me. Crate mazes are of course perfect for hiding secrets and we have a couple of those here. Unfortunately they are quite poor for combat purposes though but it does not show that much in this map since one maze is the starter area and the other one a secret (if my memory serves me right?).

I do see where Demonologist is coming from with the idea that gameplay was added as a bit of an afterthought because there are quite a few areas that don't really work that well for combat, the aforementioned crate mazes for one and the warehouses at the other side of the road as well to an extent. The battles in the streets are "easy" to construct and they are pretty well executed. The final fight I thought was perfectly fine and fair as is as well, perhaps even the highlight of the map. Ammo starvation might be a real problem here but myself I was very comfortable due to finding the important secrets.

Even thought the map felt like a relative breeze overall in the end, somehow I managed to die twice. First time was in the very first crate maze; it's not included in the FDA since I ragequit after but I ran out of ammo and was mugged by the Cacodemon horde that managed to sneak into the warehouse and block me with their infinitely tall invisible lower body parts. Second time was after finding the BTSX-secret; I sure didn't expect to be suddenly dumped into the middle of the street when running for cover in the secret. The Arach surprise itself didn't kill me but the embarrassingly poor decision-making immediately afterwards.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP08 A Blue Shadow

A Matt Tropiano map. I like most of his stuff. This one was fairly decent in combat and other things. Looks like Tough Skin River from the previous episode, with lots of flowing water. The level flows like running water too which is a big plus. In one particular room I chainsawed a lot of imps and demons close by, it was close to the yellow doors. Didn't have too much trouble until I got to the yellow key, where I thought playing safe was gonna help. And then after the yellow door I just splash into the water again spamming rockets at revenants. And speaking of, there sure are a lot of revenants, especially after the blue bars in the blue area. This place is pretty darn blue don't ya think? Mini labyrinth of sorts as well. When the archvile showed up, I accidently blew myself up trying to hit him and the chaingunners from behind the walls. Out of that into the final area...

The first time I played this, I apparently didn't trigger the final trap. Maybe it was because I loaded the new beta at about this map with my previous savegame and somehow all the teleporting monsters didn't show up. All I dealt with was the hellknight guarding the exit. I correctly loaded the new beta and replayed until MAP08 and the monsters did show up. It was quite an ambush, but I managed through. Human error on my part loading the new beta and having me savegame still intact. But still, great level, my new favorite so far. Blue is the best color ever.

[dew]

Getsu Fune said:

The first time I played this, I apparently didn't trigger the final trap. Maybe it was because I loaded the new beta at about this map with my previous savegame and somehow all the teleporting monsters didn't show up. All I dealt with was the hellknight guarding the exit. I correctly loaded the new beta and replayed until MAP08 and the monsters did show up. It was quite an ambush, but I managed through. Human error on my part loading the new beta and having me savegame still intact. But still, great level, my new favorite so far. Blue is the best color ever.

The final teleport ambush was broken in b1, monsters were stuck in the ceilings in the dummy closets. You probably played the b1 version somehow with the old savegame. The setup in that room was changed at the very last moment (changing most monsters into an ambush squad) and we, heh, failed to test it properly.

[punnyone]

Map 8 - A Blue Shadow - 100% Kills/Secrets, HMP Skill.

Right off the bat, I'm impressed by this map. The combination of the blue water, the numerous green vines, and the red sky, blend into one fantastic aesthetically pleasing combo!

The interior architecture as well as the music reminds me heavily of Heretic/Hexen. There are some really nice touches such as the stone beds and the blocks which are sunk at various altitudes in the lakes to give the illusion of deep water.

Combat-wise, much of this level is quite manageable and even a bit relaxing to playthrough. Obvious exceptions include virtually all of the rooms that overlook the skull keys, as well as the final two rooms.

There is a bit of a reoccurring theme in this episode of using too many revenants at once, often in inconvenient places, and I found this level to be no exception. The cool looking blue floor room that transformed into a pool was a particularly frustrating encounter. At least the ammo and health are nicely balanced.

Overall, I'd rate this as another one of my favorites from the episode so far. It looks fantastic, and for the most part, it plays just as good.

[scifista42]

Catching up.

MAP04 - "Dirty Water" by Use3d/Tarnsman

A big nonlinear map, rather slower paced, at least at first. Open areas and gameplay itself distinctly reminded me of the original Doom 2 maps, in the best possible way. I've enjoyed exploring the layout. Of course, the map was beautiful, new textures seem to do their job great in these competently designed maps.

I've noticed a lack of bullet ammo, but understood it - chaingun is not an ideal weapon for this map in particular. On the other hand, rockets were lacking too, and I was a bit disappointed by that.

At a certain moment, 2 archviles appeared and revived too many monsters and all of them got stuck in a descended corridor. I saved my game in a disadvantageous position, so after multiple failures, I decided to run away and let them be. It worked, none of the monsters could follow me, as far as I can tell. Long time later, I returned there to kill them. It was a good moment, though, when the monsters appeared initially.

Towards the end, I've rushed forward and approached the exit quite early, letting 50+ monsters alive around me, so that I might have missed some parts of the map.

Pretty great experience, overally I liked it.

MAP05 - Episode Hub by Xaser

A beautiful cinematic adventure. Quite a long one, but I didn't mind it in the slightest. Nice to explore. Feels a little strange though, why this place in particular has no monsters and items at all. I mean, from a logical point of view, it goes against Doom's "cliches" of thoroughly populated levels with pickups scattered all around, while this area looks like it could have been infested by monsters as well. BTSX E1 had a subway station full of gore and corpses at least, so that I could have imagined a battle taking place beforehand. E2's hub is mysterious in this way, for me.

[Woolie Wool]

MAP08: Blue Shadow (9/10)
After the hell that was map07, this is like a drink of cold water after a trip through the desert. "Blue" just about sums up this level, which is composed largely of watery grottoes overgrown by vegetation, reminiscent of the Quartzon levels from Descent II. In the artificial structures blue is used prominently and the visuals are in general very striking. This might be the best music in BTSX E2 so far, its haunting synth lead adds to the waterlogged, forlorn atmosphere of the map. It's short and to the point, and areas flow sensibly into each other, making it a snap to find your way around.

Combat is (much) lighter this time around, with only one really serious encounter after the blue key switch, when you jump down into a pool with several revenants and arachnotrons (it helps that you can see and hear them moving around before you jump in with them). The blue and gray temple area near the end looks great, like a more colorful rendition of The Wizard's Manse (Quake E2M4 if I remember correctly). My only real complaint is one section where a tunnel opens into a courtyard surrounding a building, and vines obscure your view out of the tunnel, leaving you unable to size up your opposition before venturing out or try to stake out the exit of the tunnel and blast monsters as they approach.

[scifista42]

MAP06 - "Useless Inventions" by Vader

As I like exploration, this was delightful. Really, this modern-style city map managed to catch my attention so much, that even after completing the final monster wave, I gladly spent additional time to find all secrets. I don't say that cities or crate mazes appeal to me in general - but this one did, and pretty well. Out of the 7 secrets, I've found 5 regularly, then just used IDDT to ensure where the remaining two were located, but then again, I've found a way there on my own.

The map wasn't difficult that much, although full of revenants and other high tier monsters. Except for the last battle. It killed me several times. I eventually ran away and guess what, the monsters could use the lifts to follow me! I liked it. Eventually I sniped some of them and then went down to finish the rest. I know I know, I shouldn't have played like this, but I've seen it as a good idea after I repeatedly failed against 2 archviles and a revenant horde. I can say that I've enjoyed gameplay in the map's entirety, anyway.

I've got an impression that I understood how BTSX E2 mappers referenced the "E2" theme. The maps so far seem to be roughly inspired by Doom 1's and Doom 2's episodes 2 (Shores of Hell, City theme). On one side, techbase-hellish crossovers (texturing kinda reminding of both), and at the same time, bricks and extensive city layouts. I mean like if a vague inspiration was taken from them, like a slight reference and a point from which to start. BTSX E1 consisted techbases, which are characteristic for Doom's (and Doom 2's) E1. E2 might have been supposed to be generally bigger, rougher, dimmer and meaner, while of course still satisfying to play. I get this vibe from the original games as well as BTSX. But it might be only my impression.