The DWmegawad Club plays: Back to Saturn X E2

[esselfortium]

j4rio said:

I liked 9 and 10. I don't think 10 really suffers from gameplay standpoint, as I've enjoyed it overall. Maybe some encounters that tried to be difficult could have been more elaborate than just archviles thrown into face.

MAP10 in its earliest incarnations were actually pretty light on archviles, and more and more encounters with them were incorporated as I revised it into its current form (and still more in response to tester feedback). I feel like it's unquestionably a much better map now than it was then, but I pretty much anticipated archvile-related complaints.

I'm pretty satisfied with how it plays currently, aside from one fight that's not really worked as intended (the cacos behind you in the flooded library are intended to force you out into the open, but seem to have had the opposite effect in most playthroughs I've watched). The map isn't likely to see any more huge changes at this point, but I am always open to ideas and discussion, even if it's just things to keep in mind for future mapping.

[Cynical]

esselfortium said:

You get the plasma rifle in the very first fight, and the SSG is visible and accessible early on in the next area. There is no reason to ever be punching out monsters or using the single shotgun against high-tier enemies in this map.

Most players will probably blow all of the Cells in the first fight against the 5 Revs and Vile, and getting the SSG requires grinding through a ton of meat with the single-barrel. Also, if you right first instead of left first in the blue key/SSG area, you can't get the SSG until you've pounded through a trap containing multiple Revenants and a PE with a single-barrel. Most first-time players will also have to pound through the large Mancubus warp-in on the ground floor in that area with the single-barrel, as well; they'll hear the warp-in, and their first instinct won't be "run forward".

Does this mean you'll be leaving, or are you just being a tease? 10 maps in, if you've found everything in this wad as thoroughly awful as you say, I can't imagine why you're still dragging yourself through it.

I will continue doing what I'm doing now -- reading what people are saying, and playing maps that seem interesting based on those comments. You'll notice that I skipped maps 5, 6, 7, and 8 -- I was already not planning on playing every map here, based on my experience with the first four maps.

Also, everything? I guess you didn't read my appraisal of map 09.

EDIT:

I'm pretty satisfied with how it plays currently, aside from one fight that's not really worked as intended (the cacos behind you in the flooded library are intended to force you out into the open, but seem to have had the opposite effect in most playthroughs I've watched).

If it makes you feel any better, this one did work as intended against me.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP10 Eureka Signs

Where I thought Use3D failed is where I thought esselfortium succeeded. A very well done exploratory map and my new favorite. For it's size it flows damn well, and it's teleport traps aren't as annoying as they seem. There's quite a lot of archviles too, but I found no real trouble. Balance was nice. This map was so big that it was tough for me to find any actual standouts. Some that I remember: close to the blue key going into the water, all these monsters teleport around me. Lowering the gate in that area to fight hitscanners and two archies also stood out. Going towards the red key, I get an awkward ambush from an archie plus a ton of other monsters behind me, but my fleet-footed self avoided devastation from that trap. Red key area was pretty tough too. It's quite cool how after each key grab everything points me back closer towards the center of the level too. Yellow key was mostly lava where I attempted to snipe at revenants with my rockets (I actually did that alot for this level). Going southwestward was probably the one trap that really got me, the one where all the cacodemons ended up attacking me from behind while I was busy hitting imps. Never saw them coming. Past that, I came up with a strategy to avoid the hitscanners and arachnotron down in the water, then triggered more archies, and with that more monsters. Then there's this controversial puzzle section. I was a bit puzzled at first as to why that crusher was there, but figured out that I had some mild platforming to do where two pillars are rising. If I jumped to the next one, the same two pillars would fall and I had to time it right so the crusher wasn't blocking me. Pretty unique, and I even managed it on my first go. And then everything circles back to the exit which happens to be in the center, although fighting the archies in the tight corridor did a number to me then. But this was a very nice, good flowing exploratory level and I'm glad I played it.

[Veinen]

Damn, would've FDAed the wad on solonet had I known it is in playable state. I meant to ask about that before I started the playthrough but kinda forgot and it's a little too late now.

Map10: Eureka Signs - FDA, recorded with b1 (no deaths, 35 mins).

Now this is the shit I've been waiting for. Really amazing stuff this, so atmospheric and so compelling. Quite the long journey but I was thoroughly entertained the whole time. Progress in this map is mostly linear but it's interconnected so that the path crosses previously visited areas multiple times. Mostly these revisits area brief and the correct route clearly visible so you'll be hard pressed to get lost. The visual theme more or less changes multiple times, which is a pretty dangerous design choice, but here essel manages to tie everything together in a very stylish manner so it doesn't feel like a mess at all.

Difficulty in this map is rather mild overall but as I said, I was entertained and it didn't feel too easy at any point either. AVs are aplenty but since PG is given right away, which is a very good choice in my opinion especially since ammo is balanced so that you can't just spam plasma everywhere you go, the AV traps are not hard to deal with at all. Unfortunately I will have to join those who outwitted the Caco trap by not playing it like inteded but simply retreated to the first room of the library, making the fight a timewaster and not much else. Had it worked like it should have I'm sure the Cacos would have been much more of a threat. Didn't mind the platforming part much either and how Cynical managed to spend several minutes waiting for something there is beyond me. Gotta love the megasphere secret; I took it upon myself to find my way in and eventually did too. Pretty clever, I must say, and it did took a while to figure out.

Seems like all praise but there's not really much I could complain about. The music is pretty great too and fittingly atmospheric. Really loved this map, best one so far for sure. Great work.

[esselfortium]

Veinen said:

Unfortunately I will have to join those who outwitted the Caco trap by not playing it like inteded but simply retreated to the first room of the library, making the fight a timewaster and not much else. Had it worked like it should have I'm sure the Cacos would have been much more of a threat.

Any ideas for this encounter? I've considered moving the trigger line further out so that they'll be further behind you when they start spawning, but I'm not convinced it'd actually help. I suppose I could alter it so that they don't come out until you've already jumped down into the water, but that would defeat part of their intended purpose rather than fixing it to work properly, so I'm reluctant to do that.

[Suitepee]

http://www.twitch.tv/johnsuitepee

Doing part 2 of my coverage of this wad for the Club, continuing from map 09 if anyone is interested.

[Cynical]

esselfortium said:

Any ideas for this encounter? I've considered moving the trigger line further out so that they'll be further behind you when they start spawning, but I'm not convinced it'd actually help. I suppose I could alter it so that they don't come out until you've already jumped down into the water, but that would defeat part of their intended purpose rather than fixing it to work properly, so I'm reluctant to do that.

Why not keep the trigger line where it is, move the Caco spawns closer to the water, and have some bars block the path back to the previous library?

[j4rio]

esselfortium said:

I'm pretty satisfied with how it plays currently, aside from one fight that's not really worked as intended (the cacos behind you in the flooded library are intended to force you out into the open, but seem to have had the opposite effect in most playthroughs I've watched). The map isn't likely to see any more huge changes at this point, but I am always open to ideas and discussion, even if it's just things to keep in mind for future mapping.

If I were to try setting this up so cacos force player more effectively to the lower level, I would cut off the possibility to go back to library room completely. It doesn't have to be bars, just making the stairs back to the library-ish room at least 25 units higher than the sector with cacos (and all the surrounding stuff, I guess) or just straight up bar the player in. The room is also not open enough for them to fluently come out, so I would also make some holes for cacos to come out of sector 1004 straight into sector 735. However, there are "only" 12 so it's nothing reliable and I believe getting their number higher would also help this. Maybe to 18 or so.

[Veinen]

esselfortium said:

Any ideas for this encounter? I've considered moving the trigger line further out so that they'll be further behind you when they start spawning, but I'm not convinced it'd actually help. I suppose I could alter it so that they don't come out until you've already jumped down into the water, but that would defeat part of their intended purpose rather than fixing it to work properly, so I'm reluctant to do that.

Well the problem in my case at least was that I backtracked a bit and saw the Cacos before they woke up, so had I fired right after crossing the trigger line the Cacos would have started to pour out and blocked the easy way out. So maybe make a second trigger line which triggers a tele trap with something like one Rev teleporting just behind the player very close to the trigger line that opens the Caco trap. I assume the first instinct would now be to kill the Rev or run forward and wake up more enemies, which would in turn wake up the Cacos after the player eventually fires. If the player is familiar with the map then I don't think there's much you can do about it. Blocking off the previous library area completely would not matter much since it's not hard at all to chokepoint the Cacos in the curve and not advance further waking up the Revs and Chainers. If you want to avoid the chokepointing too then I guess make a few of them tele to somewhere around the lift area or where the Imps are, so that there's some pressure from that side as well.

[dew]

Agreed, blocking the way back doesn't really solve anything, because I destroyed the cacos where I stood. I thought if they teleported around chaotically, the player would be forced to move away from the danger, but it's questionable whether there IS enough danger at all, heh. I'm inclined to agree with a slightly later trigger and ... well, perhaps just teleporting all the cacos in from a dummy closet? that way they can be precisely distributed to dick the player as intended. :P

[Steve D]

Suitepee said:

http://www.twitch.tv/johnsuitepee

Doing part 2 of my coverage of this wad for the Club, continuing from map 09 if anyone is interested.

Bummer, I'm leaving the house and have to miss it. Good luck, John!

[j4rio]

As it is currently, the blocking really doesn't matter, because there's not enough pressure. If you set it up the way I said so they pour out faster and from more directions, the blocking will become a necessity so they do their desired role of pushing player onwards.

[Dragonsbrethren]

MAP10

This map outstays its welcome. I was really enjoying it at first, but personally I think it should have ended after the red key trap and everything else could be split off into its own map. Felt like this went on forever, and I just wanted it to end after every section. I kind of agree with Cynical's complaints about the ammo balance too, there were a lot of times I'd have been happier if I had more cells to use the plasma gun. Platform jumping timing puzzle was dumb and those lifts would've worked just as well without it.

Put me down as another one the cacodemon push was entirely ineffectual on. I went back, wasted a lot of my ammo on them, then realized how the encounter was supposed to play out and reloaded.

I will say though, for as long as this map was, it flowed really well. Outside of trying to remember where the yellow door was, I never ran around aimlessly or looked at the automap.

[Demonologist]

Seele00TextOnly said:

I will never understand why so many Doom players retreat at every opportunity. That's so boring. I suppose us playtesters should have constantly been reminding ourselves that half the players of the wad wouldn't actually be out to have a good time, and were instead bent on playing cowardly.

You just made my evening.


Okay, so I guess I can jump right to 12 by now?

MAP12 - "Demons Are Real" by Skillsaw
Oh yes, they are. And who can set up a meeting with them better than Paul DeBruyne? SKILL-SAW! SKILL-SAW!
...Fanboyism aside - this is a really cool map, though not like I was expecting something different here. Visuals are neat, and the gameplay is solid. While some of the encounters could use a bit more teeth (like that pool ambush, it's just too big for all the poor bastards pouring out of closets to do something significant) - overall everything is nicely arranged and provides good fast pacing (just the thing I want, basically), even though it's still on an easier side. So, what else could I say? I wish I'd see much more like this, right here, right now. Basically, I'd see this whole mapset done by Skillsaw alone. Haha.

[dobu gabu maru]

MAP09: Well, I definitely found my favorite of the set so far. This one is a short, linear, trappy affair, but what makes it work is a damn smart placement of enemies. MAP11 from E1 was also a largely trap-based affair but it was bogged down by bloated waves of enemies. Here the jumps are more calculated and precise, allowing you to survive if you react quickly but keeping the baddies close enough to rarely leave you unscathed. I also like the mix of hitscanners and bulkier enemies (cacos do a tremendous job of tanking for chaingunners), and the post-Mastermind warp-in was deliciously devilish. Fantastic music too!

MAP10: Essel continues to seduce me with another excellent outing, this time a thirty minute journey through a looping complex. The encounters and layout are top notch here, bringing the player back over into old areas time and time again while surprising them with some pretty brutal fights (most of this is due to the placement of the dual AVs and their cohorts, which I'll contest is the best monster composition in the game). I really liked the atmosphere down in the sunked archives, and actually found the lift puzzle more clever than frustrating (didn't stop me from impatiently failing it time and time again). Perhaps the only issue is that the map meanders for a bit too long once you have all the keys (it doesn't give a solid sense of progression when you come back around again), but I'd say this is definitely the most stellar map of the set so far.

Also good job on the ammo balance—it was a joyous occasion to have to use my other weapons when shells started running dry in the latter half.

[Demon of the Well]

About the map 10 cacoswarm, having reached the area where they appear will require having left a bunch of corpses in the closet-ambush room with the crucified being over its exit doorway. If you ensure that monsters from back in that direction are able to travel freely out to the ledges overlooking the large pool, you can port a couple of viles and maybe a scant handful of demonic linemen (read: nobles or mancubi) back into that room, so players that try to flee will run into a mob of recently resurrected enemies out for revenge and/or become sandwiched between the mob and the cacoswarm. Additionally, this will have the effect of more strongly encouraging the player to eventually do what you originally wanted them to do vis-a-vis the swarm, that being to jump down into the pool and fight from there--if the hypothetical viles are walking through a mountain of caco-corpses up top, the smart thing to do will be to take the fight to a venue where their rezzing powers can't follow.

I guess in this scenario it's still technically possible for a player to get lucky and run far enough back, even through the new viles/co., that they can still chokepoint things from the proper direction, but there's only so much you can do without resorting to actual bars or dead-drops or whathaveyou (which I agree would be out of character for this particular WAD).

Incidentally, I didn't retreat back the way I'd come when they appeared, but I didn't jump into the water, either--I fought them from the far wooden platform. I probably would have jumped into the water, except I underestimated the number of imps and got fucked up pretty badly by them and the mancubus over there, and so I made the snap decision that the devil I knew was probably something I was more likely to survive than the devil I didn't at a whopping 7% health or whatever it was.

[Worm]

MAP10 - "Eureka Signs": Lots of great stuff in this map. I love the look of the of the ruins. Texturing is excellent with varied stonework, wood, and touches of gold and brown. There's frenetic action right at the beginning and plasma to play with (and ration) throughout the entire map. The map weaves in and out of itself nicely at multiple points. I really liked the layout of the area around the bridge to the south. I dove off into the waterfalls to escape the chaos and battled my way back up through the caves. The sense of progression falters near the end, however--the map starts to feel meandering shortly after you get through the yellow door. Okay, we're going down into the dungeons, and then... back up again, I guess? There are some cool rooms down there but it starts to feel like a new map entirely, and the exit location is just plain weird.

[Justince]

r_init: getpostnumberforname: post not found!

Edited August 1, 2017 by Justince

[Seele00TextOnly]

Just to add one thing, as part of the dev team: Hopefully more traps and more locking the player in will happen. Somehow it can be worked in to more of the maps probably. I certainly hope by final release the wad would be something that would appeal to a broader spectrum of players, even the 'reluctant campers that really don't want to camp honest'. So far there's been lots of very very valuable feedback in this thread and I thank you for that, even those of you I've been engaged in heated discussion with.

[Suitepee]

http://www.twitch.tv/johnsuitepee/c/5093986 = part 2 of my playthrough for the DWMegawad Club, maps 09-15 covered. (secret exit on map 15 cheat-quired)

Again to prevent spoilers, I won't discuss each map in individual detail.

But what I can say is I AM NOT looking forward to that secret map. A real challenge I think lies in store for me next time! I half expect the next stream to just be map 31 for 3-4 hours of pain and torment.
Also I didn't entirely like maps 14/15 despite having good parts/ideas.

And I still think E2 is overkilling on Revenant use....

[dew]

Alright, skipping the hubmap, because ranting about it is Xaser territory.

Playtester's War Journal, day 402: Useless Inventions (Vader)

This map was developed mainly through the first half of 2012. It was tentatively set as map15 and the first version didn't feature the entire final area, heh. There were regular exits behind the yellow doors and a secret exit behind the red one. It felt rather placeholderish, but I don't know if Vader always had in mind to add the storage basement.

What did change radically over time was the gameplay. Well, not all of it. The crate maze had some items shuffled around, but otherwise it's almost a time capsule from the early 2012. Everything else has undergone fairly drastic changes. The streets started as a trivial matter with some easyish monster plinking with basic weapons. Then Vader added the fairly brutal exit area and started filling the streets with mid-tier monsters. We had a lovely secret-hunting crate maze and a fierce exit area, but the middle became a bit of a slog, because at that point all the power weapons were secret. Then the map went to sleep for a year, because the E1 crunch happened and E2 stuff that was getting revised over and over got sidetracked.

Well, when deadlines for E2 appeared in 2014 again, some new folks were invited in for more playtesting and they complained about the street part again, so Vader toughened it up (cacos!) and added the outside RL. Et voila, all of the sudden it's a mean city battle with VERY annoying fliers doing their worst to hinder your movement and aim while not bothering at all about infighting. A pretty satisfying map, imo.

Fun fact: When I found out it was possible to jump into the "nature" part, everyone liked the idea of a secret there, but everything behind that strip had to be blocked off because of hopeless overflows. In retrospect, the mancos AND the teleporter line are a rather unfortunate combination for sure. Err, maybe we'll get a good idea, heh.


Playtester's War Journal, day 403: Shrine to Dynamic Years (The Green Herring)

If I recall correctly, this map kept its progression from its beginning. Most of the original work was done in mid-2012... you can tell a huge part of BtSX was developed all at once and only the episodic split created these year long differences, heh. The map's linear nature made testing and tweaking easy - TGH worked on some details and texturing and at one point essel helped with a bit of remodeling.

The rest was making sure the room battles work with proper efficiency to generate fun - and that the hallway population feel not like filler. Iirc, the crusher corridor was just a regular boring old hallway originally... but I might get corrected, heh. TGH nailed that one, imo. He had the ruin room perfected first, the final area took a bit more time and perhaps the open feedback will drive him to perform a few more tweaks. Also he hates my guts now, because I proposed a few hasty edits the day before release (ugh!) and one of them caused the miserable BK cheat that lets you bypass the porting monsters entirely. My original reasoning was that you could trigger them too soon and have them amass below the wall without dropping down.

Children, don't leave important changes for the last day before the deadline.

[Tarnsman]

scifista42 said:

MAP08 - "A Blue Shadow" by Matt Tropiano/Tarnsman

Matt Tropiano surely knows very well how to shape a map to look nice, unified and varied at the same time, and also pleasant to navigate through and play. Obviously the SSG is supposed to be the primary weapon here, given all the shell pickups everywhere - I can see it this way, as I play continuously. I admit that pistol starters need to find the SSG in the first place, but it shouldn't be difficult. Nice compact layout. I liked the atmosphere, blue-ish theme, usage of darkness and music. The demon face textures look pretty good. Particular fights were relatively managable even for a keyboard player like me, I've enjoyed the difficulty. I couldn't avoid death anyway, failing in the revenant pit and several other moments, but at other times I was able to win even the more hectic situations. I simply have to enjoy this megawad, all the effort put into it shows and works great.

Since I did this for Dirty Water might as well do it here too.

Most of the layout, most of the monster placement and ~50% of the architecture is Matt's. The texturing and the other ~50% of the architecture I did.

Most of the structure in the starting area and some of the stuff around the RK is me. The Grotto by the RK, the RK Key Switch, the Tunnels connecting all those areas, the SSG "crypt", the outdoor water area past the YK door, the YK area, and the stuff past the BK door are all Matt's sans the lowering floor part of the post BK area and the actual exit area which are mine. Essel created some blue variants of certain textures and find+replaced those in after the fact for that area.

[esselfortium]

This has gone pretty far outside the scope of the Megawad Club map-by-map discussion, so I've split the camping/traps discussion off into its own thread so it can continue without cluttering up this one: http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/70078-dwmc-tangent-camping-traps-gameplay-discussion/

[Magnusblitz]

MAP10: Eureka Signs
100% kills, 3/5 secrets

So, we have our first real 'epic' map at 400+ monsters. I was expecting perhaps a large fight near the end, but no, it's 400 monsters spread out pretty dang evenly, so the map does drag on a bit.

The start isn't bad, but I have the feeling I'm only saying that because I'm playing on continous. The amount of revvies and other enemies thrown at the player seems a bit ridiculous for the weapons provided for pistol starters (single shotgun, plasma rifle). If three revenants teleport behind me down a long corridor, I want to blast them away with a few rockets, not sit there and plink away with the single shotty. Thankfully, I have an SSG, chaingun and RL already, so it wasn't too hard here. Once the weapons are acquired, the first leg (blue key) is pretty easy - the 'major' battle here with the dual AVs and friends arising from the water is right next to a major chokepoint and some plasma, so it's pretty easy to defeat.

The middle section (red key) is where this map really shines, IMO. The cavernous tunnels are surprisingly dangerous, as the player gets forced to run around by the revenants and its easy to slip into the crack and unleash more monsters. Good stuff here. Outside, there's a really nice setup where an Arch-Vile gets revealed ahead, and a host of hitscanners with demon meatshields behind. I decided to vape the AV with plasma and run ahead, which only reveals a Pain Elemental and some revenants, so the player really needs to stay light on his feet here.

The last third (yellow key) is a step down... not bad, but not great. Most of the AVs here are pretty easy to take out again. As for the caco ambush in the library, the reason it failed for me personally was because walking forward I heard a door open (which I assume is the teleport closets for the cacos), and retreated before firing and activating them. The platforming section isn't really tough, but it is a bit frustrating to get the timing on the crusher block, and took me several attempts. It's the sort of thing I'd love to see in a secret, but as forced level progression feels pointless and time-wasting. (Speaking of secrets...I do really dig the megasphere one). The final battle/exit in particular feel a bit jammed in at the last second, both in gameplay (just teleport a couple more AVs on top of the player and hopefully some corpses) and layout (tiny little hallway closet?) Almost feels like the map was otherwise complete, and then the author realized he needed to put an exit in somewhere.

All in all, it's actually quite a linear assault... there's a couple parts where earlier areas are 'revisited' but it's pretty briefly, more just like looping around the same parts on a track. Keyed doors are revealed early on, with long paths to get the key, which then happens to be right next to the door they open. Along this path, there's some good setups (especially in the middle section) but overall the map lacks any sort of real gameplay climax. I actually wasn't as put-off by the length as I expected (there are quite a few zombies/shotgunners/imps, so the monster count is a bit misleading) but I can't deny that it does feel somewhat flat throughout, rather than building to any sort of crescendo.

Looks-wise it looks alright, as I've said before, the color palette is going to be pretty nice-looking regardless, but theme-wise there's a lot of identity crisis going on. Is it a castle? A techbase? I see a lot of wood and brick and temple-ish skulls/torches, but also lots of iron plating and fluorescent lighting, so your guess is as good as mine. Oh, and that flour-de-lis texture near the red doors is just... yeah, no idea what that's going here. It's a bizarre texture that I'd say has no place in the WAD period, unless we're trying to claim that these aliens we're fighting on Saturn X influenced/were big fans of medieval France.

3/5

[Tarnsman]

Map 10 uses every single texture in E2 I'm pretty sure and I love it for it.

[darkreaver]

map10: I think this map both played really well and looked really nice. That's it. 8/10

[Demon of the Well]

Map 10 -- Eureka Signs - 106% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA, 0 deaths. Uses beta 2.
Not proud of the FDA in this one, I play like shit (especially in the second half of the level), but still somehow manage to survive, probably buoyed by my ability to find secrets in this case. One question for anyone that happens to sit through the demo: what the fuck happened with the rocket that goes off in my face at the 12 minute 15 seconds mark (or approx. -skipsec 730)? Did I just hit the rock wall to my left and am so pridefully deluded that I can't see it when I rewatch it? Looks to me like I hit some kind of invisible obstacle directly in front of me, some kind of strange node issue, perhaps?

Anyway, I said earlier on that the way in which this level played out upended my expectations about what to expect from a map by this particular author. The long and short of this is that it had more action and a higher bodycount than I'd have expected, and it contained real danger at points--part of this was a function of just some poor play on my part, as aforesaid, but there are scenarios here that are designed to put a hurtin' on you, particularly if you handle them in an indecisive way. Frankly, that's not really something I've seen much of in Esselfortium's previous maps (both within and without BTSX), where the combat has tended to be highly incidental in flavor, as opposed to based on traps or setpieces. I think it's a good thing, don't get me wrong--it was just unexpected.

In terms of pure progression and visual fidelity, this is very much in line with Essel's maps from E1 of BTSX, particularly 'Navigating Flood Regions', I want to say--it's an expansive walking tour that takes place on an essentially linear path, taking the player through a variety of different settings and ambiences before it's finished. Careful attention paid to lighting and color combos throughout makes most scenes lush and generally plays well to the different styles of texture used--the only room I remember not really liking the aesthetic presentation of was the yellow key lava room, which looked a mite too visually busy to me, both in terms of its range of colors and its variety of textures/flats. I did also very much notice the weird fleur-de-lys wallpaper; I'm not sure how well it really works in that particular area, but I'm very pleased it's in the WAD and look forward to seeing it used more prominently in a later map (hopefully a spooky baroque one). For my part, I didn't find the level's varying theme to be offputting or unfitting; it's something like a sample platter of various themes we've seen thus far, that climaxes with a more unique setting near the end (that being the flooded caves/necromantic library section). The single most defining trait of an Esselmap (in my mind, that is) is the 'looping layout' device, and we get that in spades here--the map first loops right after getting the blue key, and then loops several more times over the course of the adventure; I think that this particular type of progression path works well in a map with a lot of thematically discrete and largely self-contained areas like this, fostering a sense of unity in what could have easily seemed like a collection of disparate setpieces. And a sense of unity or cohesion is paramount to establishing a sense of place, of course...I felt that from this map despite its varied theme, the juxtaposition of this map with map 09's setting, and its dualistic mood between its fairly bright, tech-temple surface world and its shadowy ritual caverns, saw me interpreting it as something very much like an ancient alien parallel to the classic gutted UAC setting we see in so many Doom WADs--a place of learning or research that had a very dark secret, which ultimately proved to be the civilization's demise.

So, the gameplay. It hits the ground running, like a more singleminded cousin to 'I'll Replace You with Machines' from E1. Because the map is very linear in overall organization--that is, there's no real backtracking per se, all revisitation of earlier areas is handled via the looping layout device--it tends to frame the action as a series of discrete one-off encounters. Some of these are very simple in design, ala the blockade of viles and zombies lurking in the water near the blue bars, which is a test of the player's ability to maintain control of the chokepoint presented by the lowered gate into the area in the face of concentrated enemy fire, but many are surprisingly expansive/involved in scope, ala the cacoswarm in the later underground area which attempts to force the player forward into hostile territory. Of course, in a map of this length, it would be tricky to maintain a sense of freshness relying solely on this approach--rather than using a great deal of filler monsters along the linear track (this only happens briefly at a few points), a few areas are framed to be tackled in a bit more of a flexible way, ala the blue key area, which uses mostly trash monsters in the context of a nonlinear microcosm in order to vary things up a bit. Generally speaking, the map is at its best when it marries these two approaches more directly, ala the outdoor red key zone, which is spacious and vertically elaborated enough to allow for some freestyle play, but also contains some focused setpiece encounters in the form of the undead legion + arch-vile pincer trap, or the vile tagteam that guards the red key.

Pretty enjoyable map--I'd go so far as to say it's the best one by Essel in the Back to Saturn X project to this point--and of course its robust length/size is the kind of thing that's generally to my taste. It certainly makes for a good cluster closer, anyway. Probably room for some further refinement in some of the marquee encounters, most of which have already been talked about at length.

Edit: Oh yes, and cool midi again, I particularly like the quiet/introspective middle segment.

[punnyone]

Map 10 - Eureka Signs - 100% Kills, 80% Secrets, HMP Skill.

Eternal Doom has always been my favorite Megawad, perhaps it's the brand new textures contained within, or the sheer size of the maps, which feel more like epic journeys than just mere deathmatch dungeons. Well, that's exactly the nostalgia I got playing "Eureka Signs". This is a mega map, a really really big mega map.

Of course, one glance at the automap, and it doesn't seem like it's THAT big. Surely there are other maps in this set that occupy more grid space. The length of time it takes to play through Eureka Signs lies down to the fact that the level snakes around and through itself. We visit vinous stone halls, with nifty purple lights, destroyed battlements occupied by angry archviles, castle moats, flooded dungeons, and even what appears to be a sorcerer's hidden library, all in one map. This is a true epic journey.

Visuals may be good and all, but what about the gameplay. Well, this map's a beast. There are innumerable tough ambushes, often by cacodemons and revenants. Rather than cower behind the corner, I chose instead to go in guns blazing. It made the map both highly challenging and incredibly satisfying. Speaking of challenging/frustrating, the rising/lowering platform in the "sorcerer's library" was quite a puzzler. Oh and the music is well-fitting. It builds from a quiet mellow tune into an epic.

Overall, I'd easily rate this as one of the best, if not THE best, level I've played so far in E2. One would hope a map made by the founder of the feast would be a highlight. Well, I certainly was impressed!

Map 11 - T.I.T.F.O.S. II

Not too much else to say about this one other than, I like exploring some of the newer areas, (and is that the fabled Tower itself I see in the distance?) It's another good chill-down map to prep for what will surely be an even more demanding block of maps!

[Salt-Man Z]

MAP09: Adverse Wind
Really liked this one. Some breathing room again (short map) but because I wasn't able to get out of the exit area in the previous level, I started this one with 6% health! It was a desperate yet cautious battle for every medikit I could find. (That said, I took the Mastermind out early with rockets and thus had excess health I didn't need by the time I exited. A taut, fun adventure.

MAP10: Eureka Signs
It's basically your standard Essel map cranked up to 11. I think I liked the first third the best, second third second, and the last bit the least. The base portion was just so much fun. Kinda got tired of the "Hi! Here's an archvile in front of you and one behind you!" though. All around, a great epic map.

MAP11: Tower in the Fountain of Sparks II
Not much more to add here, but man, you can really wander around a lot, huh? And I think there's a typo in the intermission text. It looks like it reads: "broken cities swollen with the crawl of evil lur." I assume that last word is supposed to be "lurk"?

[kmxexii]

MAP10 EUREKA SIGNS OVER HER CASTLE

this is another bigass adventure level thats basically linear but essel does a good job ferrying you through previously explored shit and dumping you on your way to the next objective that you wont really notice unless you are obsessing over it. hes made another gothic castle kind of thing but it isnt quite as intricate as, say "Wings of Thorn", instead looking like one of those huge kitchen sink style keeps with tons of unique areas to explore. theres like, several water dungeons, castle battlements, a chasm that encircles a cavern housing a bridge youve got to raise, something like a chapel attached to a partially waterlogged library, an area with exposed lava, and a bunch of smaller attached areas so that you cant possibly get bored of one particular theme, unless you equate these all to the overall theme of castle, in which case i guess theres no helping you, sorry for your loss

what essel really wants you to know is that he aint messin around. when you waltz down that battlement after killing a few zombies and round that corner all hell breaks loose as a party line of skeletons comes down the pathway after you, an archvile sits on top of the ruined tower ready to blast you, and two more revenants lower into the water. the good news is that those fuckers on the lowering platform have a plasma rifle. the bad news is you still have to fight and it doesnt get a whole lot easier in terms of ambushes. you wont have enough ammo to just hose shit with cells the whole map so get ready for a lot of skirmishing and sniping as you pick your way through indoor and outdoor areas. that area with the blue key is a great demonstration of how there is p much a hornets nest tho not one where you can lure them out one at a time, like when you walk past that gate you just lowered and then wham two archviles, some hitscanners, and an arachnotron, love ya

actually this map has a lot of archviles and they are usually done deviously so that you are either running from one because thats where the cover is, not right next to it, or you do have cover but there are two of them, like the bit with the red key fortress where one of them teleports outside to the bridge area so you are in a bit of a pickle. i also really liked taht southwestern caco ambush but mainly because i sniffed it out and just laid down rocket suppression fire and unloading rockets into a crowd of cacos and seeing them stay where they are is an unusual delight. i also really liked the yellow key fight, pretty simple but the room looks great, it has a (mostly worthless) timer with the rad suit, and the cacos are a nice spoiler monster for the obligatory archvile. theres also a really nice chasm crawl in that previously mentioned area surrounding the bridge cave with an archvile surprise complemented by zombies and demons and of course a pain elemental from far away, one of the only real ways to use one.

stuff flows really well, it has tons of sweet distinct areas, and theres even a column-based platforming bit that requires some timing on three different fronts. eureka signs is very cool, and i had a fun time dancing with revenants.

rating: -32 deg F