The DWmegawad Club plays: Back to Saturn X E2

[Tarnsman]

Running past most monsters is speedrun territory. Running past mid-tier you only have a shotgun to fight and ample area to run past and easily avoid is not. Especially in layouts that loop back with the monsters on ledges to where they can not chase you.

[Veinen]

I started a secondary playthrough on solonet and so far (up to map10) changes in the overall difficulty level seem very minor. There are some noticeable differences regarding enemy placement and even weapon placement (some of which may have been done for UV as well since I changed to beta 2 only now) and naturally my views on the difficulty for solonet compared to UV are not fully compareble since when doing the solonet runs I already had some knowledge of how the map functions and what to expect next. In any case, here are some quick thoughts:

Map01: Perhaps the that map had its combat altered the most as solonet introduces several Archies around the map along with, I think, some extra Revs and Chainers and maybe other shit too, I can't remember. First AV is encountered in the YK branch, on the ledge with bunch of other monsters. While the AV himself is hardly threatening, he does have some serious rezzing powers and it's easy to waste a lot of ammo, maybe even leading to a scenario where you have to go punch the AV out. Now I guarantee some persons, that i shall not name here, will find this terrible and crap but as the self-proclaimed unofficial "pretty good" -man of the Megawad Club, I find this guy an acceptable addition. Then we have the two AVs that appear on your way back from the ship. A little gimmicky and it seems rather obvious how the author has intended things to play out but I'm not sure if it really works that well. The one standing on the crate doesn't seem to want to initiate combat and just keeps spasming about in his tiny world that is the top of the crate. So the player can without much extra effort simply run through the tunnel, dispose of the idiot on top of the crate by whatever means, and only then concentrate on the innards of the monster closet that had opened. It also seems quite unlikely that the AV inside said closet manages to muster up enough brain to actually walk all the way to the end of the tunnel and disrupt the brutal murder of his fellow yellow alien because the tunnel is most likely blocked by the other fodder emerging from the closet. The last two Archies in the penultimate room of the map initially felt like a poor addition but on my second solonet playthrough I discovered that they can climb up the stairs, which leads to all kinds of new player harassing possibilities. If you want to go deeper into this shit, then thinking what the target audience of the solonet difficulty realsitically is, I mean I don't recall many going for solonet in the E1 DWMC-thread and UV will always be the go-to difficulty for most people whether solonet is advertised as single player balanced or not, the two Archies are not much more than an ammo sink and provide no real threat for the players that actually choose solonet. That might not make any sense but it's alright.

Map02: I don't recall any change in difficulty or any noticeable additions either for that matter. Maybe there were some but they died in the barrel holocaust same as the old enemies. A few Pinkies in the finale I think? That works as an extra distraction but they don't make a huge difference in the dynamics of the battle.

Map03: This one had multiple Arch-Viles added and an extra Mancubus in the YK fight at least. The extra Manc works and the AV that accompanies the lone Rev appearing around the soulsphere is acceptable. The AV behind the wall of Revs in the penultimate room is VERY nice and brings a whole new dimension to this battle. The PE in beta1 has been replaced with an AV in beta2 and two AVS MORE have tagged along for solonet, which I think is a little uhh... excessive? Now I'm not saying I know why the author has decided to put three AVs into a tiny room with a tiny door being the only way out, but I can almost imagine a sign with the text "grind these, asshole" hanging above the aforementioned door accompanied with a sound bite of an evil laugh. The Chaingunners in the RK room have been changed to Sarges too, applies for UV as well, which makes for a less threatening but a more fast-paced "fight" as you can deal with them handily when balancing on the thin walkway.

Map04: The solonet SM in the pool at the start is a pestering douchebag so I suppose she serves her purpose. That's pretty much it for the additions I can remember when it comes to solonet. The PG at the start has been moved to a more visible location and a Baron has been substracted from the blue throne is good since he had very little purpose to be there other than "accidentally" slaughter his Imp-minions. I think there were less Archies in the solonet version (huh???) than in my initial playthrough with b1, but it's possible that they beamed into different spots now and killing them was just not as memorable on solonet as in the b1 UV playthrough.

Map06: Some PEs floated around the streets on solonet that weren't there before which changes things a bit; not much, but it's something. Also, what do ya know, an AV is added into the crate maze presumably for punching practice. The second Manc at the start has no effect whatsoever if you're a gutless camper coward like myself. The biggest change is probably the multiplayer SSG given for free pretty early, which changes the pace of the map somewhat, and without sacrificing difficulty much if at all in my opinion. Didn't notice it in the demo so that's why I didn't pick it up earlier.

Map07: Another one where I'm hard pressed to remember any noticeable differences, other than an extremely useless Arch-Vile in the BK room. Everyone not named Tarnsman or Seele00TextOnly will simply grab the BK and gtfo when the wall lowers since there is very little cover in the chamber and the route out is clear. No time is wasted as "punishment" either as it is very effective to take out the Pinkies and the AV left behind later through the opening with the RL. I suggest replacing the AV with some mid tier monster and have him tele to right in front of the key and possibly another one to where you enter the room to make it interesting.

Map08: The Cyber in the YK yard is alright. You have to deal with him with SSG only but the environment is awkward enough to make it work. Compared to my initial playthrough, the final trap worked now but it's really not much. I feel like something could be teled on to the ledge on the left from the entrance when the bigger trap is activated, although that admittedly it would make but a little difference overall. Just got that feeling that the ledge needs someting in addition to the Chaingunner that is already dead at that point.

Map09: Nice Cyber, he's much more dangerous than the SM in that environment. Is there something else? I don't remember anything at least.

Map10: Minor adjustments at most, difficulty and overall appearance felt largely the same. Here I checked out what happens when you just ignore the Cacos in the already infamous Caco trap and just charged through. Only three Cacos managed to follow me to the pit area, the rest had a party of their own in the tunnels.

Last but not the least, to realize the full wall-of-texting potential of this post, I offer you my solonet first exit demos (not even maxes mostly) for maps 01-10, recorded with beta 2, in case someone is interested: https://www.mediafire.com/?1uguupl4ipjgixk

Apologies for the inevitable spelling errors and incoherence.

[j4rio]

Tarnsman said:

Running past most monsters is speedrun territory. Running past mid-tier you only have a shotgun to fight and ample area to run past and easily avoid is not. Especially in layouts that loop back with the monsters on ledges to where they can not chase you.

I don't think revenant is really the monster capable of accomplishing that. They don't take that much effort nor ammo to take out and their missles are far too dangerous to just leave them behind alive.

[DeathevokatioN]

Veinen said:

Map09: Nice Cyber, he's much more dangerous than the SM in that environment. Is there something else? I don't remember anything at least.

Hehe, yeah I liked that cyber as well... the testers didn't want me to keep it in single player though.

[Xaser]

darkreaver said:

Any more funfacts and uh...stories behind the maps, Xaser?

Eventually. I'm being a slow Xaser. D:

[Tarnsman]

j4rio said:

I don't think revenant is really the monster capable of accomplishing that. They don't take that much effort nor ammo to take out and their missles are far too dangerous to just leave them behind alive.

Really? I run past revenants all the time. Their speed means they'll likely hang up on any direction changes and their missiles are among the easiest to dodge from behind.

Anyway onto the breakdown of who did what for Nation Gone Dry.

Nation Gone Dry was a really weird map. Jimmy's original version of the map was unfortunately, to put it lightly, broken as fuck. (http://imgur.com/a/zAtLd for the morbidly curious.) As such I pretty much had to remake his map from scratch, as any edits to make it vanilla compatible would have involved gutting the map and cutting it down to a state that looked horribly unfinished and unusable. So all the architecture, texturing and shaping is mine not Jimmy's (sans a couple of areas I was able to successfully transplant). The overall layout (sans 1 or 2 hallways that were merged into other stuff and the end area), most of the gameplay and thing placement, and map concepts are still 100% Jimmy though. The end flooding belongs exclusively to Jimmy so be sure to praise him for that awesome implementation. I added a few more floods and water changes (like the water lowering in the reactor, the water raising in the RK room) to make it less of a one off thing.

I tweaked the gameplay slightly in a few areas, mostly by adding more chaingunners and replacing the herds of Hell Knights and Barons in the map with Revenants and Archviles, as well as adding a trap or two.

Jimmy is currently working on remaking the map to fit his more modern style and to make it less broken as shit in vanilla so this version of the map is more a temporary placeholder that actually works in the intended port.

[dew]

Thanks for the commentary, Veinen!

map01: It's the map I've finalized myself, so I took care of solonet as well. :) The penultimate room archies used to be more potent, because you were trapped in there and the stairs out raised after you went into the exit room. That effect was scrapped when the singleplayer archie was removed (tagged MP), because he just didn't provide a good fight and "trapping" you in with the few chainers didn't make any sense. I still don't want to give up on them, so perhaps a W1 teleport line to put one behind the player could work. I'll also see about making the ambush closet vile more potent. And you're right about the crate vile, I just don't get why viles in tight spaces seem so reluctant to attack... Perhaps it's the corpse seeking algorithm fucking with their brain? That guy should work if he attacked properly...

map02: Tango added some MP baddies for a bit more pressure, but we agreed that this isn't a map that would benefit from extra hazards, because it'd dilute the central gimmick.

map03: Yea, the exit room viles are a bit ridiculous, that was Xaser's little surprise, heh. Maybe if one teleported out of the room, but that might be a bit cheap, especially if I hog that trick for map01.

map04: Yup, nothing to speak about besides the SM, but that guy feels right in the huge-ass pool. I really like him there, he fills up the place nicely without being too annoying thanks to manco infighting and chaingun scatter. I didn't properly evaluate the map's encounters even in SP, so some detailed micromanagement of fights will come in later revisions.

map06: The PEs aren't technically too dangerous, but they make you change priorities, which can be deadly in the full chaos of the city battle. I think it's enough, some extra meat could easily overcrowd the map and ruin the dynamic.

map07: Didn't test properly.

map08: I think the cyb really works there, he bosses the area and your access to him is a bit awkward. The map's future is unsure, though.

map09: This map can't support many more monsters. Maybe an extra vile somewhere, but that cyb is probably as good as it'll get.

map10: Didn't test, it'll probabably take some work to increase difficulty across the map room by room consistently.

[Dragonsbrethren]

MAP13

Weird reading the comments about this being one of the weaker maps, since I found it pretty fun. I will say it's definitely one of the weaker ones aesthetically, though. Architecture's nice but those textures are monotonous.

Anyway, a few comments: The red key trap is the most predictable thing in the history of predictability -- I was practically firing rockets before I picked the key up, I knew what was coming. There are two secret soulspheres right after this (though I think I could've picked them up before?), which leads me to believe it was supposed to be tough...maybe on UV?

The rising water doesn't work for me in Doom. I mean the setup, the hint. My mind doesn't pick up on stuff like that in Doom. I found the water rose by looking at the automap and seeing an area I hadn't been to after I couldn't find anything else in the room where I lowered the water. If this were any other game, I probably would've picked up on this, but in Doom, lowering water means you lowered a sector to me and nothing else, don't expect it to have consequences elsewhere in the map and I just thought I was missing something in that room. (Also there being monsters in the waterfall was totally predictable too, but I was expecting a cybie really.)

Did like the ample health. That's the kind of thing I like to see in a Doom map -- tough encounters but enough supplies to patch myself up afterwards so I don't feel the need to save scum through the next encounter. I still think the two soulspheres back to back were excessive, though.

[Worm]

MAP13 - "Nation Gone Dry": A frantic start to this one! Supplies are plentiful so you can focus on moving and fighting. The faked arches and gradient lighting caught my eye, as did those little waterfalls that open up to fill the pool by the mancubus platform (the monster teleporter in that area is a weird but fun quirk--I used it to trap monsters in the pool so I could fight them from around the corner). The water effects in general are very cool, and flooding the starting location in particular was a great way to open up the final area. Way more interesting than using locked doors over and over. This is just a cool and good-looking map all around. Even the automap is a pleasing shape. My only complaint is that the red key trap feels like the kind intended to slap a player for not saving beforehand. If you expect what's coming, escape is easy; if you hesitate, you get boxed in. Oh, and why are the two soulpheres secrets so close together? Can I get some blue armor here?

[Demonologist]

MAP14 - "Shocker in Gloomtown" by Mechadon/Vader
After seeing the very first location and monster count after starting this map, the very first thought that pierced my brain was: "Oh fuck, it's Atlatl part 2...". The thing that could be scary for me indeed!
In the end, this prediction failed to meet the truth, all good for me. And as I moved along through this extinct ancient city currently jam-packed with demonic crap - I was actually having fun, and it was gradually increasing with every step. Nice layout, consistent texturing, quite impressive show of height variation (as you're in for a layer-cake here indeed, the amount of levels and overlooks on different heights is the thing to consider), and on top of it all - entertaining gameplay with some very finely-crafted killing spree that shifts between incidental - yet not boring despite the corridor-y nature of it - combat and more setpiece-oriented scenarios, and the transition is smooth enough, so that I can't remember any parts that would feel downright fillerish or dragged the pace down too much. Nonlinearity was an icing on the cake, the player has plenty of options from the get-go, so this map could be played differently each time you dive into it. Much appreciated, replayability is there for sure.
The whole place is riddled with secrets, and while I found some of them - in the end I was feeling really lazy to find the remaining ones, sorry, so after surviving that final mess (quite cool one, actually, nice work on that) I took a look around and decided to leave.
Overall - really cool map, definitely pushed me out of my comfort/preferred zone, yet it did so in a very appealing way, so that I felt really entertained. Great work!

[Worm]

MAP14 - "Shocker in Gloomtown": Thematically, this map is a more traditional castle/fortress than anything else so far. I like maps like this where the routes are naturally constrained by height differences and architecture. There are lots of shortcuts and ledges to jump off/across, which gives the main area and the upstairs room with the cages a deathmatch feel. There's hidden stuff everywhere, some of which can make your life a LOT easier (namely, the keys). This is the first map in the episode where I immediately replayed it after finishing so I could try out different approaches and use the secrets I had discovered. A lot of the enemies in this map can be pretty safely sniped, such as whenever an area is closed off by bars instead of a door or wall. That's fine with me because I didn't really feel like dealing with a dozen or more revenants near the end.

[Demon of the Well]

Appreciate the -solonet information, Veinen. I played all of the maps from the E1 beta twice (if not more), with the second being the solonet playthrough, and barring a few exceptions I didn't feel that the solonet additions really worked in such a way as to make the setting 'the true UV' for the wad. A few of the maps did really benefit from the additions--the extra roving arch-viles used in the Tarnsman/Hobomaster map were the strongest example that I can recall--but for the most part the additions seemed more like novelty toss-ins than the accoutrements of an extra degree of difficulty. I reckon this was because they were largely done in a classic MP-centric 'IWAD' idiom (e.g. put a boss monster in a large area, ala the spiderdemon from map 01), which tends to be more relevant for fast/loose coop games. Not saying this was the wrong kind of design as such--coop thing placement should be suitable for coop first and foremost--but I think that sharpening the UV setting to a more considerable killing edge is liable to be more ideal, as MP-style thing placement often doesn't tighten the dynamic of the SP experience so much as it adds a bit of playtime. Regardless, I'll probably replay the E2 maps on -solonet after finishing the first playthrough, but fortunately with this new batch of maps I'm not feeling nearly as much like I'm playing on HMP while UV is selected as I was with the old beta of E1.

Map 11 -- Tower in the Fountain of Sparks II
Return to the hub area. Not a lot of new ground covered here, although we do get to briefly enter the large building we could only gawp at earlier, by way of the colonnade. There's some kind of strange color-coding to the system of barriers and switches and portals at work here--for a moment I thought I might need to find a red key in order to activate the switch granting access to the next portal--seems a mite unnecessary at this early date, but perhaps it will prove its usefulness in later return trips, where traversal could conceivably become increasingly complex. That minor critique aside, I still feel that this hub is quite a bit more interesting than the one from E1, primarily because it has a much stronger element of foreshadowing in its presentation--from the colonnade's lawn, we can see some mysterious towers in the distance beyond a leaky dam....could one of these be our final destination in this part of BTSX?

FDA for this, since I posted the first one as well, but there's really no reason to watch this one, frankly.

Map 12 -- Demons Are Real - 103% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA, 0 deaths. Uses beta 2.
More crappy playing from me in this one, probably even worse than in map 10, really (I think I even unconsciously camp a threshold at one point!!!). I'm never really in danger of death here, though....it's really not a very dangerous map.

Skillsaw is perhaps the most unilaterally popular mapper of the present age. Not without reason; his work combines sleek, colorful visual fidelity with generous middling-to-largescale play spaces, highly conducive to the very arcade-flavored action that he tends to favor in his combat setups. He has a rare ability for heavily favoring setpiece encounters without generally allowing his maps to feel like they are entirely defined by them, perhaps because they often involve more spectacle than any really pronounced peril (e.g. his signature 'waves of teleporting weaklings' smallscale slaughters), allowing his maps to flow smoothly without too many pronounced speedbumps while also feeling sufficiently meaty in regards to action, making them palatable to a wide range of players. 'Demons Are Real' has several of these characteristic attributes, but I don't feel it's a particularly strong example of the author's body of work. I wouldn't call it a bad map, mind you, but it's certainly one of the less remarkable entries in the set to this point, the kind of thing one might cavalierly dismiss as 'filler' if its fundamentals weren't as strong as they are.

As expected, it's very clean visually, consisting of a number of airy yards and pools with open ceilings, showcasing the development in the episode's sky texture, now depicting a night sky luminous with energy and pierced by the bizarre localized cross-shaped aurora mentioned in the most recent text intermission. Its most notable aesthetic features are its chunky arches (some crumbling) and the slant-cut stonework on some of its walls, presumably simulated with midtextures and very seamlessly implemented. Overall, though, I didn't get a particularly strong sense of place from this one--it's very understated visually, using a lot of subdued earth-toned masonry for the bulk of its texturing, with a generous amount of water as the principle highlight element. It's a sensible theme, but doesn't seem to distinguish itself as clearly as it might from some of the previous maps with broadly similar themes, something I reckon is actually more a function of the layout than anything having to do with texturing, lighting, shapes, or any of that: simply put, few of the primary architectural features (e.g. the big arches) are actually very relevant to the map's core gameplay--abstract away all of the pleasing textures and custom assets in this one, and what you get is a series of fairly light battles in flat, open yards.

Again, I wouldn't go so far as to call the gameplay 'bad' or 'slow' or anything like that, but it does have a certain aspect of underachievement to it (again, largely relative to some of the set's other maps); nothing's really offensive here, you get a lot of space so you can run around and do your thing against the casually heterogeneous monster-mash (or you can camp some thresholds if you like--Skillsaw doesn't force you to play his way for the most part ;) ), and it all goes by in a flash. Maybe too much of a flash....I think the map lacks any real climax or defining encounter, which might not be a problem in an exploratory/adventuresome map, but this isn't one of those--it's a straight series of discrete fights, so I feel like at least some of those fights ought to have some fireworks to them. The most defining element of the action seems to be the periodic repopulation of the starting area, which is fine, but none of these waves ever manage to be very threatening, because nothing's ever done to complicate the situation enough to where the player needs to develop any more of a defined strategy than just 'run around casually and shoot stuff.' Ironically, the only part of the map I'm outright skeptical about is the most memorable, that being the final pitfight--you flatten a couple of Barons in a small box (but not small enough for the Barons to be threatening in any way), take care of some beam-in smallfry, face an arch-vile, and leave. The vile actually works pretty well, I think, since depending on how he moves it can be a real scramble to break line of sight with him if he starts attacking, but the stuff beforehand feels like padding, and the corpses created in the small room are unlikely to be positioned in a way that the vile will be able to do much work with them (if he could, the matter might become a lot more dangerous in short order, especially if he rezzes a Baron).

It's an okay map, really, but it's also the first one where I had to watch my own demo in order to help me complete this writeup, which to me says something. Since it is the first map in a new cluster, perhaps it was intended as a breather of sorts, but the way it's set up doesn't lend itself particularly well to that role, IMO--it's a series of straightforward brawls, and I think it either needs more variety or more teeth (or both) to help it shine more in future versions.

Edit: Shit, you guys are on map 14 already?

[kmxexii]

MAP12 DEMONS ARE REAL DEMONS ARE RAEL

well the map may be in sort of the same style (ancient alien castle) but its all skillsaw all the time. we also have the debut of the fantastic glowing sky crosses which may mark a change in difficulty. i definitely feel one but paul is very good about throwing you into a nasty encounter and then leaving you only one way out and that is through. this shows up in the blue key room, whose initial crawl aint bad but youll quickly find yourself battling on two fronts, albeit one of which is much easier. the cistern between the two circular towers is another good brawl since youre p much surrounded by beasties and must valiantly run on over to that nest of cacos and fight through them. the finale is a "choose your own frustration" since both switches teleport some low- to mid-tier enemies in a very tiny room with the second one unleashing an archvile. i suspect this might be a stumbling block to some players with the rocket being your strongest available weapon. debruyne also dumps monsters back in for you to fight through previously cleared areas, which always helps to liven things up.

like some of the other small maps it has a pretty cool layout that manages to obscure how linear it is just by naturally drawing you through with all the action plus the various areas are distinct enough with their architecture. the opening area in particular stands out in my mind with the descending elevator, first view of the sky, and that collapsed aqueduct thing. oh and those badass faux-slopes that end some of the walls. i like the look of the dual buildings area too, reminds me of heretic for some reason.

rating: 9/8 apocalypse

[Demonologist]

Demon of the Well said:

Shit, you guys are on map 14 already?

Umm, I guess it was decided before me to jump over hub maps in case someone feels like it. I do, so...

Though basically, I'm fully done with this megawad for several days now, just posting on a daily basis. As always, I don't feel like playing one map a day, as I prefer dealing with things faster.

[Magnusblitz]

Demon of the Well said:

Edit: Shit, you guys are on map 14 already?

Well, we're skipping hub maps, and Demonologist is in Australia or New Zealand or somewhere right on the other side of the IDL, so he's posting on the next map when the rest of us are still on the last map's day.

[Demonologist]

...Or Russia, where only leper freaks live, winds slay instantly and corpses lay unburied. It's September, 12th, the time is 1:45 pm, and the temperature is an absolute zero. Welcome to hell, comrades.

[j4rio]

Tarnsman said:

Really?

You tell me. Have you seen at least one blind playthrough or FDA of that map where the player left behind those sniping revenants alive?

dew said:

map02: Tango added some MP baddies for a bit more pressure, but we agreed that this isn't a map that would benefit from extra hazards, because it'd dilute the central gimmick.

Well, I suppose you can add co-op barrels along with more stuff?

[dew]

j4rio said:

Well, I suppose you can add co-op barrels along with more stuff?

Any idea where? :) They're pretty much everywhere already, any more and monsters would be tripping over them and exploding them spontaneously.

[j4rio]

Just from a quick peek at map, the very beginning and the very ending in front of exit trigger are the only ones that strike me as such spots.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP14 Shocker in Gloomtown

Intricate. Very intricate. Tough too, but at least there's a lot of ammo. 8 secrets, all in the first half of the map. Gameplay goes from mild to having a few surprises here and there, like the spiderdemon, the watery ambush of demons and hitscanners, the caco ambush and the demon/imp ambush to the south. Now, the yellow key is the only one I found essential, as the other two are secrets! What they do, well, the red one helps lead to a few alternate entrances to the second half of the map, and both could be used on some hidden switches to trigger traps against the monsters. Unfortunately, in most cases I've already killed the monsters, such as the spiderdemon, so that crusher was useless by then. But at least when heading out to the secret courtyard of mancubi with the blue key I can walk through the fire and telefrag an archvile, leading me to the right part of the map. This area was pretty interesting, with some interesting combat (ugh, mancubus "refills") and a lot of switches that do various things. I found the two switches in the far right crush the mancubi, the switches in their cubby holes lower the barriers to proceed but let out imps and demons (chainsaw goodness!), and then there's the BFG sitting on top of the pillar which I finally got.

The finale is a real bitch and a half though. The first cyberdemon appears, but also "oh lord jesus it's a zombie ambush". And I have not one comfort zone to help. If I hid in one of the sides cybie would get me but then trying to avoid him in the center and the zombies get in the way, so my plan was to use my new BFG to splice him as quick as possible then run to the sides. Worked to an extent, but "wait, that's another hidden switch that I can use to crush the cyber? Oh FUCK YOU".

First timers are never going to find out about those ammo saving crushers unless they are exceptionally curious on their surroundings. I was cautious but not curious, so I missed my chances to save ammo several times. While playing this map I would always "hide and shoot" which allows me to hit my targets at the proper angles, and it works out fine. Of course, I'm grateful for the tons of ammo around, and the mostly good and interesting combat. So those are pluses. Secret goers will likely have a good time finding switches as well as keys. Mostly nice level except for me not seeing the ammo savers.

[Velvetic]

MAP14 - "Shocker in Gloomtown" by Mechadon/Vader

Kinda easy to be honest, that cyberdemon at the end wasn't that difficult to kill (i didn't get the invulnerability sphere because i didn't saw it). Although i enjoyed the gameplay elements of the map, i didn't quite like the layout, there where unnecessary paths to you to choose (my opinion) but that doesn't mean that i didn't like the map overall. Layout was okay at best for me, the presentation was one of the best and the enemy placement was gorgeous.

[punnyone]

Map 14 - Shocker In Gloomtown - 100% Kills, 87% Secrets. HMP Skill.

The author of what is probably my favorite map in E1 teams up with Vader to give us another candidate for best E2 map. Shocker In Gloomtown features lots of rarely used castle textures and architecture. There is a lot of interconnectivity and layering in the level design, giving the player lots of opportunities to revisit areas that have already cleared out.

There are several clever monster traps, although for the most part, nothing is unmanagable. Interestingly enough, many of these close encounters are with hoards of weaker enemies such as former humans, imps, and pinkys. It's a nice variation to some of the rather predictable combat situations I've faced often in this episode.

What really won me over though was the optional red and blue keys, and the advantages collecting those brings the player. Since I've been doing two playthroughs (and have already finished an earlier one on a lower difficulty), I wound up with two different experiences from this level. The first time I played, I couldn't find the red and blue keys. As a result, the map was a bit on the tough side as I progressed.

This time around, I stumbled upon the entrance to the "Key Zone" almost by chance, and was able to get rid of some early opposition, access more areas, and best of all, finally get the coveted BFG! It's almost like the keys are "Premium Access Passes". Play without them and you'll have a rougher run through, collect them and everything becomes significantly more difficult. This increases the replay value immensely!

Overall, this is another fantastic level that is practically perfect in terms of visuals and gameplay.

[mouldy]

MAP14 - "Shocker in Gloomtown" by Mechadon/Vader

Wonderful stuff. Straight away you get so many choices of where to go, its quite confusing at first. And to be honest even after clearing the whole map, navigating it is a bit of a head scratcher. Automap doesnt help much either. But its all compact enough that its never that far to run back if you go the wrong way. Very complex, both layout and progression. I got to the exit with still 2 optional keys to find and a whole load of monsters to kill, but its a joy to dive back in and find everything. The whole thing took 40 minutes of game time, but I hardly noticed the time. Nice music too. Shit, even the cyberdemon battle was fun, and I hate cyberdemon battles.

[Tarnsman]

j4rio said:

You tell me. Have you seen at least one blind playthrough or FDA of that map where the player left behind those sniping revenants alive?

Literally the entire testing team

[j4rio]

I'm having a little hard time entirely believing that. Sure, when I already know about how map works I will leave them behind, but not otherwise. So far there are only 2 public FDAs of 13, but in both they are taken out.

[Dragonsbrethren]

MAP14

Mixed feelings on this one. When I first started it, it came off as incredibly unfair. It seemed like I couldn't make any progress, I had nothing but the shotgun to work with, and everytime I tried this oh so wondrous strategy of blindly running past everything, it would completely backfire on me, and I'd be restarting again. Turns out, I was blindly running past the wrong things. Heh. Once I found there's an easily accessible SSG near the start, the map got a lot more fun to me.

Reading the other comments, I must've missed a ton here. I didn't get the optional keys, find any crushers, and I don't even remember seeing the "secret revealed" text pop up. Still, I had fun with it.

[Magnusblitz]

Time to catch up myself...

MAP13: Nation Gone Dry
94% kills, 2/3 secrets

Not much to say about this one. Another watery stone temple, with a somewhat unremarkable layout and linear path, but looks pretty good and sets up the areas interestingly enough to keep the player entertained. The start appears rough but actually isn't so bad if you just forge straight ahead and pick off the revenants in more closed quarters. Lots of revenants and arch-viles in this one.

A slight aside here, since the green... water? (Slime? It doesn't hurt, so I guess it's water) reminded me of it. I don't really like the liquid flats in this WAD. The blue water is okay, since it's at least a nice color, but they all look really flat/solid to me. This might just be the case for any custom liquid in general because of how the Doom engine works, and the default flats just work for me because of years of indoctrination, but meh. Also, it has a definite 'flow' in a westerly direction, which looks weird whenever the waterfall is coming from the west and should be pushing water east. But I digress...

Unlike Getsu Fine, my favorite fight of the map is the one right inside the red door, with an Arch-Vile teleporting near the player right away while an imp horde and another AV approach from afar. Then again, I was feeling in the groove, able to use those columns to block the AV fire without falling into the water, so, had fun. I also happily found out that the water in that section lowers on its own without pushing the switch, allowing me to avoid that stupid cacodemon encounter. Not a fan of the last area... I haven't said anything in the big 'camping' debate, but I feel like this room kinda calls for it, given the three AV snipers. Meh. And with how the teleport traps work, I think this is a room crying for some blocking bars.

3/5

[Crusader No Regret]

map 8: blue Shadow

Did not like on the first go around. Lots of work to be done with only a single shotgun. When I finally found the chaingun, thought the map was awful for pistol starting. Found red key and ressed on though thanks in part to my stupidity into jumping down right into a pack of demons by the chainsaw, got picked off by faraway shotgun guys I wasn't able to locate. Found a secret with a cell pack and wondered where the plasma weapon(s) were.

The mystery of the cell pack unsolved, decided to give it another go and it went a lot better. Still tight ammo early but this time found SSG which I had completely overlooked on the first attempt. Also was more successful in the open area beyond red bars. Approached from other entrance and was able to creep up to and take out the shotgungunners who sniped me off in my first attempt. Was expecting an ambush at close range at the rocket launcher (grab it, something appears, shoot in panic, that sort of trap) though that would be too cliche so fine as is. Finally found plasma rifle which many arachnotrons and revenants waiting for the eager marine. Not me, I had them play with each other a bit before leaping down what I thought was a one way path.

Exploit (on beta 1): Before using the blue key, run up real close to the blue bars and fire to alert some monsters within then take them out cheaply between the bars. Didn't realize it was soon to be a point of no return. Only a gripe on a first attempt without saves; I can see it working well to keep a player from leaving with 200/200 and full ammo. I didn't realize there was room to retreat in the final real battle (hellknight at exit doesn't count) and fought it out in a small area. Cacodemons could be an issue if a mancubus refuses to shift their attention otherwise infighting works well enough outside speedruns.

Staring at the exit with 100% kills and 3/5 secrets, I said to hell with it and IDCLIPed back to pick up the megaarmor and a soulsphere I had left behind which triggered the last secrets. And yes, only 1 death before winning.

Some more health right by the exit seems like a good idea so players aren't entering the next map on death's door. I liked the archvile setup, by the way. Hearing it growling long before it appears is effective at creating a sense of tension.

map 9: an Adverse Wind
Despite having seen the spiderdemon on top of teleport destination gimmick before, I'll admit to being surprised to see monsters pour out when it fell. Did not have the hellknight teleport behind me first time through; guess I happened to block its teleport destination. Another did-not-finish, died a stupid death on the end stretch.

[kmxexii]

MAP13 ONE NATION GONE DRY UNDER A GROOVE

this has all the appearance of an abandoned alien ruin, but then very few things in btsx are ever truly empty, unless they are hub maps. i am sorry that this jimmy level has been a point of contention and i guess i'll see what the final verdict is whenever the true and final release comes out like ten years from now but i do like this current iteration. nation gone dry has a very powerful hook; the map starts out dry, of course, with scant sources of water, but as you battle your way through this dry and dusty ruin, you slowly raise the water table until most of the area is inundated, which lets you backtrack through to the previously inaccessible northern section, where the finale rests. there is a very powerful moment near the end of the map where you drain an enormous cistern to accomplish your objective, which works great as a giant megastructure that gives the level a sense of depth and you a sense of being very small in the world of btsx.

the opening is a great bit of panic with the opening crossfire tho people that despair of chaingun / revenant snipers may grit their teeth at the opening monster screams. once you get inside the citadel there are some clever setups. i really like the teleport line into the center chamber, which stops you from just standing in the empty font and slaying monsters as they come, since whatever you can't kill will blink right behind you. there is also a battle in the west wing, demonstrating the hornets' nest style gameplay as cacos boil out of an aperture like a clown car while you're trying to put in some time with the big boys. the big finish is pretty cool, too, with its initial flood of big monsters and then if you poke your nose in the right place the archviles playing around up top come down to wreck your shit. it's a cool, action-packed adventure map, and the way it gradually opens up is sublime.

rating: half full or half empty, its all in the eye of the pain elemental

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP15 Theory Of Broken Circles

Immersion is one thing that I like in a PWAD, where it feels like I'm playing regular Doom but in a totally different limelight or setting (see Epic 2). This map certainly feels immersive, circular, and quite reminiscent of Zpack's Blackrock. Unfortunately, for it's size, it goes too long in my opinion. We can get the keys in any order so that's a plus, and all three are needed for both exits, so nothing should be missed. My route was red (left), yellow (south), and finally blue (right). Plenty of secrets to go by, some were pretty hard to find. Red key and blue key were alright for me. Before and after I got the red key there were some sneaky archies (two after I got the key). Blue key had two teleport ambushes which weren't rough. The yellow key path to the south had me channelling Demonologist-type hate with that one room with Plutonia-like dick resurrections. When I found the switch to crush those archies, another one appears directly behind me. I want to know who thinks these types of ambushes are cool, because NO ONE should like them. The monsters after the yellow key were managable except for the lost souls. Near the blue key, I fought a few cybers in alright places.

Clearing out the level of monsters certainly took a lot of time, because of it's size and nonlinearity. I think it overstayed it's welcome. I found the revenants in the northeastern part of the map quite dubious, because they are really hard to hit without a hitscan weapon and when they try to hit me, their shots fly right over me. There were quite a few moments that I got lost without combat too. Both exit rooms were handled well in my opinion, just enough to work out. This map overall had me in circles, not "perfect circles" though. I'm grateful the blood is not damaging, and I liked the mancubus and cyber placement. Interestingly enough, there's no hitscanners in the map either.