The_MártonJános Posted October 20, 2014 MAP21: Indigestion Seems like we're playing Tyson again. Short map, quick showdowns, but definitely a challenging stuff whatsoever. Someone should definitely organise a competition on who's able to make a Tyson map which lasts longest, but still enjoyable and doesn't get tedious at all till the end. Here, it would lose at the lenghtyness, but sure could win a special prize for how well it is executed. Seems like I've been caught in a fleshy-bloody environment, somewhere in the stomach of this creature. I see some nicely done blood vessels, I approach them - maybe I should dip a toe to measure how nicely warm they are - only to confront with the fact they're already taken. Pinkydemons sure don't like when strangers want them to share their jacuzzi, so my only choice to survive is to fight them with my bare hands. Within a few seconds, "all their jacuzzi are belong to I", but I find that neither is fine, all burns my body with that friggen stomach acid diluted into them, so I should continue instead. Some Knights are having their time of life in a community pool, and they all find it awkward that I see them naked, so I should circle around trying to put them asleep not throwing their radioactive green shit at me, when I accidentally open the main entrance to the indoor swimming-pool, which was being assaulted by a massive amount of Imps, they sure weren't happy to be locked out by the aristocracy in the low season. During their catfight to be hold, I activated some mechanism that pushed most of the spawn underblood, but also gave me entrance to the backdoor spa with high-set pedestals to sunbathe effectively - given we're in a covert body, it was actually solar energy given by the central warmth receptor of the Monster -, but their inhabitants were so disturbed by my prescence that they barely could have a rest, even when I disappeared into an unknown piston, which turned to be the entrance to the spring of the warmest blood, held for the Elites and with two recreational chambers, entering either will disable the Highest Elite and leave the rest of the work pretty darn easy. So, I came down with the bloodfall, giving access to each and every area within seconds, and the popularity of the Blood Pool institution increased rapidly, even the dead woke up to get into a bloodbath. Literally, as I punched most of them dead, but also caused severe fights over who takes that certain spot. Some other mechanism helped my way throughout to flatten all these brawling customers, till the survivor winners had no other job than to rest on their well-deserved places and see their opponents' corpses float by on the surface of blood. Until I took care of them as well. Tyson-wise, I would say it's well executed, but most of all I literally did is to run around, cause infights and take some Imps/Pinkies down when I had no other choice. I barely handed some Knights or Revs down, with the exception of the ones by the red key, and the last four survivors of the final Revenant swarm, most of which were already weakened by crushers and Hellknight encounters. So, if the method is Tyson, my answer is pussy, and yet I managed to do a 3 times 100 percent on the map. This could be thanked to mouldy, whose geniality didn't let me down in this case either. Okay, I'm now fed up with all these red and pink! Can I eventually escape through that... butthole? 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
tourniquet Posted October 21, 2014 21: "Indigestion" Seems like the mouth of madness has a serious disorder in the alimentary tract. Delicious visuals and some fantastic ceiling detail though quite bumpy and a bit difficult to maneuver at times. All the crushers were a welcome help for folks like me that suck at Tyson. BURP! 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
cannonball Posted October 21, 2014 MAP21 - "Indigestion" Interesting map visually though the map21 punchathon has been done to death not. Difficulty isn't too bad here, though I died loads due to poor RNG and seemingly being able to miss with my fist at point blank range. Just a usual boxing day for me :P 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
The_MártonJános Posted October 22, 2014 MAP22: Constipation Station I just love how cruelly uttering the title of this map is. Seems like the Monster swallowed an entire techbase beforehead, and it's now embedded into its interior like it's been part of him always. I guess that's what fleshy parts and blood stains that break through certain places of the base try to indicate as a matter of fact. Or it's just something under Hell's influence, who knows exactly (of course mouldy does, I'm eagerly waiting for what he says for this). Starting off from where we actually began equipment-wise, it's high time we've stocked up, and the map is at our service to do this grateful task, but doesn't forget either to inform that we've dropped into the middle of a warzone. Even from the very beginning, hitscanners and imps are sneakily getting your back over and over, given all the peek spots, windows, over- and underseeing embrasures and anything that lets a single pellet through. Easy to lose a high portion of life by annoyingly tiny attacks that hit you within mere seconds. Nevertheless, this map later certainly proves it's not valinly in the last third, as tougher encounters start to show up as one progresses forward. Never ever let the charm guide you mindlessly to a seemingly free-given weapon or power-up, as you're prone to be surrounded by Pinkies and Revenants any second. As ambushes like this won't even let you ask for forgiveness, you'd better be prepared for an instant plasma-spam ASA you pick up the weapon itself. Oh, forgot to mention that now you're not on such an overload that allows you to aimlessly shoot around, but at least you won't get "overstacked" either, which is my absolute nightmare. After getting rid of the meaty encounters and the unjustified amount of hitscanners and Imps, you soon arrive to lower the blood trench, which gives you access to the key itself. It's worth to observe that throughout there are some supply sections that are locked by blue bars, they will open now, but at what cost. Not only a relatively vehement trap opens for such a tiny space, but you get a flood into your face once again, mainly concerning the middle area, but whatsoever, abrupt hitscan attacks from any direction are better be expected. There are plenty of supply throughout, though certain secrets seem to give by classis higher power than a regular gameplay. Even with both Soulspheres in full reach, I could still get more pleased than average when I discovered the two little alcoves with the Mega's. That was just before I activated that huge blue door, where I suddenly found out that this ought to be a misunderstanding... the shaft was destroyed by a random explosion when I entered the Monster's hellish realm. This can't be... Or yes?! The shaft is renovated?! Yay!!... My enthusiasm dropped as I discovered that it's inhabited once again. Oh well, that's what I missed so much, some Archvile encounters - I seriously hoped that after I killed all the residents on their planet, I'll confront with no more. I was wrong, they must've been sent forth and around the entire underground section I'm just about to explore. Never mind - these two won't give me more headaches, for now and ever. And the shaft wasn't only repaired this time, but was also given a fancy-looking wooden framing inside, I dig it. I'll now go and look at that hanging red brick fort-complex I've just peeked at from the blue key pedestal from inside as well, no matter what cruelties await me in that very place. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
mouldy Posted October 22, 2014 tourniquet said:21: "Indigestion" BURP! I heartily approve of pushing all 3 switches at once. Map20 - imp tsunami http://www.mediafire.com/download/datbfcjw5cvwcmo/gd-mouldy-20.lmp A pretty messy run, but then this map is all about the mess. Its not actually as difficult as it first appears, despite being built around a limited space that slowly deminishes as the tide of imps encroaches. As a tip for anyone who knows how much I hate damaging floors, you will only ever find the least damaging type in any of my maps, so with the amount of health laying around here you can easily risk a few dips in the lava pool even without the secret radsuits. There is little in the way of cover, but there is also no hitscan/archviles/revenants, so as long as you keep moving you'll be ok. RIP our faithful friend the lift. Map21 - punching and crushing http://www.mediafire.com/download/cjpm83uptj8ztp5/gd-mouldy-21.lmp Since I was having a weapon reset anyway I thought why not try a weaponless map. It is a bit of an old chestnut for the map21 slot, but there aren't many other opportunities to force it on continuous players without annoying them for taking all their hard-won weapons too soon. To make things slightly more interesting, and because I know punching isn't everyone's cup of tea, there is enough space, crushers and infighting available to easily take care of everything without punching a single demon, as the demo above will show (if you can sit through 9 minutes of me dancing around monsters). 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
tourniquet Posted October 22, 2014 22: "Constipation Station" Welcome to Hell's anus or whatever this might represent. Like the previous map this one still seems to be related to the 'Mouth of Madness' and his innards. Very well designed with all the flesh bulging through ceiling and walls of this techbase. Another visual delicacy are the red tower structures on the outside, guiding us on your way down from now on. I'm curious about mouldys story for this Tech/Meat mixture. Difficulty-wise slightly easier and less chaotic than some of the previous maps. http://www.mediafire.com/download/80srcbcicpr8qiz/gd22_TNq.lmp 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
cannonball Posted October 22, 2014 MAP22 - "Constipation Station" A lot of death and frustration here as I tried to get a foothold here, there seemed to be a lot of floors which I did not have any control on as monsters triggered various linedef actions which inevitably doomed me. The map became better the further I got into it. The archvile traps are just difficult enough without being complete BS. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
dobu gabu maru Posted October 22, 2014 I'm going to continue doing my continuous HNTR testing with each map. MAP31: A map that's more about sandwiches than stairs (with you as the prime cut). I think this is one of the most awkward playing maps due to the constricted nature of it, but it's thematically amazing (it shows how far you've pushed through the building). HNTR comments: I think maybe there should be medikits or stimpacks in some of the monster cubbies at the start. Past the berserk the combat is fine but it's really rough going beforehand. MAP32: I think everyone's familiar with this setting :P Really clever re-use of the roof here, which can be especially tricky since it wasn't necessarily meant for such big juggernauts. The teleporting between rooftops part is my favorite, though it can be somewhat disorienting. Also mouldy, shouldn't MAP01 have a rectangular SLIME flat in MAP32's starting cubby? I know the maps aren't 1:1 but it could be a small perplexing tease for those that spot the oddity in MAP01. HNTR comments: Perhaps there should be a bit less cacos at the end, as it can be pretty draining to try and carve a path through all of them (especially if the player doesn't know how to get back to the main roof). Otherwise it's alright—I like the addition of the invul sphere. MAP16: This or MAP27 is my favorite of the entire wad. I may have to side with this one due to the amazing visuals and superb music, really giving this chapel an utterly sinister feel. Despite how spacey this map is, it really plays quite frantically as there's a ton of trigger lines everywhere. Sublime stuff—I suppose I'm inherently partial to all of mouldy's SP_HOT1 maps. HNTR comments: No problems here otherwise; it's crazy how coming into the map with a BFG can completely change the pace of a map. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
mouldy Posted October 22, 2014 dobu gabu maru said:shouldn't MAP01 have a rectangular SLIME flat in MAP32's starting cubby? You know what, I think it should. Thanks for the extra HNTR testing too, always useful. Map22 - the devil's toilet http://www.mediafire.com/download/5b7ndw4bviu23ll/gd-mouldy-22.lmp Yes, this is a tech-station whose primary function is to sit below the bum-hole of the beast you just crawled through, monitoring it for any monsters which may block its passage. It has a double doughnut layout which means 2 routes intertwined around the circumference which can both be navigated in either direction, which means any number of possible paths. I still haven't worked out the optimum one, hence the plodding demo. In fact I think most of these final episode demos will be a bit plodding as I haven't attempted any of them without saves yet. One thing which I have noticed though which could use tweaking, is like map17 the trickle of monsters at the end can take a while to finish spawning - that beast upstairs needs more fibre in its diet. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
The_MártonJános Posted October 23, 2014 MAP23: Demonology I don't know whether it's an existing course or not, but if yes, I'd definitely attend it. This map is so far my favourite in the set besides MAP16, which was quite fancy and good-looking as well, but this one tops it all. Generally, I just adore how everything is represented throughout, not mentioning the concept which deserves instant five stars if there were a rating system or so. Getting all this started proves to be a pain in the neck sometimes, as we're getting - no surprise - backstabbed over and over, but the general felicity is that they're no more than some lousy hitscanners and Imps, respectively. The more matter of actions take place when suddenly a Mastermind descends from the sky in the middle of a semi-sophisticated stairway system, but at least you can make her your bitch and kill all the HK's lurking around, then you deal with the mechabrain itself. Progressing reveals several sections for which you're thankful for mouldy he has restricted space no more: another look at the red fort complex from a slight balcony, a bedroom of some sort - playing the map first time I had a terrible time to resolve the puzzle here, but then luckily I've found that *cough* wood texture *cough*, which certainly explains why there's an Automap in that room in plain reach. A corridor with missing tiles of brick, through which you can admire gorgeous flames of fire... Hey, am I now catching on fire, too? No, it's just an Archvile behind the wall, get rid of him to wander this hallway later at full tranquillity. Gameplay is prone to get vicious every time you activate part of the puzzle which is to collect all seven yellow skulls onto the pedestals in the central room. Tire no second, they'll get teletransmitted as you approach them, but fear the upcoming show that follows instead: usually a littler-bigger showdown coming in mostly HK's, Revs and filthy little pest hitscanners, but there's a specialized ambush that deals with Cacos and Mancs exclusively in the main area. The "conference room" with the fireplace, respectively. Other nasty sneak attacks may await you in the sewer beneath it, the library, and... oh, a complete labor where experiments are carried out. Or, they used to be, as now their subjects got free and killed them. This room is simply amazing, and is the main reason I sign the map amongst my favourites, as there's utterly no even attempt to surpass how this looks, is executed, etc. The detail how each and every tool of the experiment is implemented just catches eyes and make you wander in and around, unable to process the sight and that this really happens. The more twisty moment is when you find out that you need to climb through the things on the desk to get the key belonging to this section. The response you get for this won't be merciful, but at least you had a good time in an experiment lab. There's also a blood sewer that, despite being well-hidden, doesn't count as secret at all, with the very exception of a side-teleporter. Okay, I've collected all the seven keys, now I'm waiting for perfection... WHAAAT?! A showdown again?! I shouldn't be surprised after how I was treated after killing all the bastards in the Gladiator area, but at least now I'm given an Invinciblity, and access to the two blood sinks which I wrongly considered to be a simple transition scene. Getting rid of all the Archies and other entitas, I realise that the door is now locked from inside, and a fellow Vile is now reviving all the corpses in a distinct room. I shouldn't let this happen, blasted I through all the well-designed rooms only to get encountered by a lighter mob, led by the Vile, who've been soon put asleep and I could continue my journey towards the red complex I'm now overly eager to investigate. Fun map, with the best visuals and generally balanced gameplay, with an impeccable concept to hand. Apart from the so-praised chemical lab, I'd highlight the black-red split carpet flowing along the stairway, the "stockly modified" MARBFACE textures - mainly the one at the salient of the library and the other atop the fireplace in the conference room - and the mechanism to the Blue Armor secret in a seemingly supply-only room. But the other parts don't look bad either, I generally loved anything and everything about this map. Gosh, I'm going kitchy at the end. See that red brick fort already, darnit! 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
Demon of the Well Posted October 23, 2014 Still having trouble keeping up. Not sure if I'm going to be able to finish (the writeups, I mean, I've already played the WAD twice over), but I'll give it the 'ol college try (<--the hell does that expression even actually mean?), I guess. Map 20 -- Mouth of Madness - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets The elevator disintegrating as it descends (giving us an early view of the bloated, monstrous THING that is the level's centerpiece in the process) is a really cool effect, and not even the best of the intro/outro sequences Mouldy has prepared, at that. This is also the first and only instance of the iconic fire/brimstone hellcave look in the the entire WAD, interestingly enough. I've heard that some folks consider Going Down's commitment to a more or less traditional thematic progression to its episodes (that is, mundane/tech human environment, then old/dilapidated demon-influenced earth settings, then Hell as E3) to be a missed opportunity given its otherwise novel presentation, but I don't see this as a problem. True, I'm not as allergic to the classic tech/earth/Hell progression as some folks, but I can understand the disenchantment. I think the real issue with Hell as E3 is that Hell as a setting is often not explored very far--so often it's all lava and jaggedy rocks and castles and cathedrals and such. Kind of a shame, considering that more than perhaps any other default Doom theme, Hell gives the mapper license to use any combination of any of the game's assets to create some kind of surreal, sinister otherworld. Going Down does have a fairly traditional take on depiction of Hell (as we'll see), but its E3 is as full of whimsical variety (both in setting and in play style) as its first two episodes, so I think it successfully avoids this pitfall. Anyway, this is a very simple map, play-wise: It's a big open space with a very (and I mean very) soft platforming element, combining long-range crossfire with some smallish cacoswarms and a steady mudslide of opposition on the central island. Most of the playable space is covered in lava, but this particular environmental threat is of deceptively little concern in this case: it's min-damaging to begin with, and since the player is likely to spend the majority of the map wearing combat armor (or its functional equivalent, via megasphere), its damage-dealing potential is very limited. Interestingly, the vast majority of the monsters in this map is constituted by a steady torrent of imps and pinkies that pour out of the fleshy aberration's gaping maw, spilling down the rock walkway and eventually compelling the player to move from the largest central island. Of course, the side struts have threats of their own, and so it's likely that at some point or other you'll end up down in the lava....but between the low damage and the high armor and the ease of egress, the lava is so softballed that taking a dip in it is hardly disastrous, usually. Indeed, there are likely to be situations where you'll take only a fraction of the damage by swimming in the molten more that you would've if you'd stayed out of it, and there are even some secret goodies to be had. On one hand, this all serves Going Down's generally freewheeling, loose playstyle, but on the other it does perhaps make the map balance seem a bit sloppy or overly doting of the player (e.g. the most involved/well-hidden secret leads to two radsuits, but the suits themselves are largely irrelevant unless you're totally getting your ass kicked and need to hide in the lava for a while). Still, sure is fun hurling rockets at the imp/demon column from the side struts, that never gets old. Minor aesthetic note: right at the start, the silver SHAWN textures below the damaged spot in the elevator (to Doomguy's right when the map loads) have some pretty gnarly alignment going on. Might be hard to correct given all of the early SFX, though? Also, the pegging of the walls that lower to reveal the two cyberdemons are asymmetrical in aspect--the smaller section of the one on the east side appears to be unpegged, and thus looks pretty weird while the wall is lowering. Map 21 -- Indigestion - 100% Kills / No secrets Aka "Return to Satan's Arsehole." It's some kind of unwritten tradition at this point that if you're going to have a dedicated Tyson map in your megaWAD, it needs to be in slot 21, and Mouldy follows suit with this rambunctious romp through the bowels of the noisome flesh-demon whose acquaintance we first made in the previous map. It's surprisingly (maybe even unbelievably) well-lit in here, but other than that, Mouldy's got a knack for this ropey, lumpy, blobby sort of 'architecture' (if you'll pardon the inappropriateness of the term)--looks quite well-wrought, or at least about as much so as the stinking, churning guts of a gluttonous pit-fiend can reasonably hope to be. The gameplay here is fully committed to pugilistic play--other than the pistol and 50 bullets you start with (of course map 20 ends on a death-exit, so no chea...I mean, 'asset transfer' for continuous players here), the only weapons you've got are Doomguy's dukes. It's really not a very demanding affair, though. There are a handful of revenants introduced at one point, but other than that it's all straightforward bipedal projectile demons (lots of imps, a few nobles) and a helping of pinkies for good measure--no hitscanners, no flyers, no arch-viles (good thing too, since ghosts in a RL-less map would be very bad news). In contrast to many maps of this type, and in keeping with Going Down's generally looser style, there's less of a focus on attrition and tricky, discrete skirmishes against very small groups of enemies--enemies tend to come in large (relative to the circumstances) groups, and most of the flavor of the action elides from their pathing organically through the narrow tunnels and under/around the pistoning parts of the creature's digestive tract, harrying the player as s/he too navigates this irregular space, looking for opportunities to get a good lick in. The only bit that plays like a setpiece per se is the odd little red key fight, which prompts you to weaponize a stationary arachnatron to weaken/kill two nearly stationary Barons--a little too directly metagamey to be to my taste, that, but fortunately the meat of the pugilistic action in the rest of the level proper suits me fine. If you've got some basic Tyson skills (or, alternately, the presence of mind to trick a lot of the enemies into being squished) it's not too hazardous a proposition, mainly because you can almost always freely retreat from any situation you don't like--this place isn't mined with triggers that lead to snowballing monster ambushes, for a change. The biggest danger is probably the potential to be trapped between two groups of enemies in the narrow tunnels, but that shouldn't happen if you stay sharp....pacifist or pugilist, it's not too hard to make it out of this one alive, bit of a breather map (also a map 21 tradition of sorts). In fact, apart from a handful of spikes, I reckon E3 is probably easier than E2 overall--the play gimmicks shine more in this episode than the raw bloodshed does. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
tourniquet Posted October 23, 2014 23: "Demonology" Truly fantastic, the YK puzzles are a interesting method to alter the general key progression. The whole place feels very mysterious, full of secret passages and odd rooms filled with splendid detail. The Alchemy Lab is a masterpiece of craftmanship, 10/10 only for the atmosphere. Though being very compact, the map offers countless routes and ways to progress, almost like a showpiece of non-linearity. Took me more then 20min to finish this poor run so don't say i didn't warn you. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
cannonball Posted October 23, 2014 MAP23 - "Demonology" Nice little map of mystery here, good gameplay too, with one exception. The final fight when you get the yellow keys. I just don't get fights like these, there is no threat. I guess on the other hand nuking a load of archviles with the rocket launcher at point blank range could be seen as fun. Good map overall though. Pesky yellow keys. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
mouldy Posted October 24, 2014 Demon of the Well said:Minor aesthetic note: right at the start, the silver SHAWN textures below the damaged spot in the elevator (to Doomguy's right when the map loads) have some pretty gnarly alignment going on. Might be hard to correct given all of the early SFX, though? Yeah those SHAWN misalignments are a pain, because I can't make them lower unpegged as the bottom half is going to descend. Nothing I can do about that I don't think. Good spot with the cyber door. Incidentally you mentioned map21 being very well lit for a bodily interior, the truth is I wanted it to be more gloomy but doom makes the reds look terrible in low light and I really wanted those colours to stand out. On to Map23 - the scooby-do haunted house of mystery http://www.mediafire.com/download/gbeeg9n5rf465ap/gd-mouldy-23.lmp Very cautious 20 minute demo that. I enjoyed watching tourniquet's demo by the way, very tense ending. The 3rd episode was a thematic free-for-all, so I decided to have a more traditional exploration map for a change, with a lengthy non-linear task to perform, and since every map has had one key to collect I thought it would be funny to have loads in this one. Had a lot of fun doing the texturing, and while its one of my favourites to look at, its not my favourite to play since I can't rambo my way through it in 5 minutes. It does contain my favourite detail of the whole wad though, which is a broken glass jar in the laboratory with a brain crawling away from it (heading towards a brainless hanging corpse). The ending falls a bit flat for some people, probably because they hoarded enough rockets to finish off all the viles before the invul runs out (i'm terribly wasteful with my rockets). Those viles are more of a distraction to allow the ones outside time to resurrect as much as they can. And yeah, those viles behind the walls are a pain in the arse for no good reason, but I wanted viles behind walls, so there they are. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
Demon of the Well Posted October 24, 2014 Map 22 -- Constipation Station - 108% Kills / 100% Secrets A very small yet rather labyrinthine map, this one's a mite hard to figure. While I was babbling on earlier that Going Down's depiction of Hell is for the most part on the classic/orthodox side, this map's a little bit of an outlier, being a meat/tech/sewer sort of place, with heavy emphasis on the 'tech.' While the nature of its operation is a bit mysterious (to me, anyway), its overall purpose is pretty clear given contextual hints, ala the continued presence of the central metal plunger from the previous map (and, uh, the name, I guess)--it's a colonic techbase! Don't see that every day. While it seems strange to describe the map as 'non-linear' given that it's so small (if not for the interceding walls and grates and such, Doomguy could stride across it at its widest point in about six or seven seconds), nevertheless that's the shoe that fits--there are two points of access for the blue skull key's chamber, a number of ways to reach each of those two points, and even some playable area that's purpose-built to be a diversion. In pure layout terms, it occurs to me that what we see here in 'Constipation Station' really sets the tone for a lot of what we see in E3--open arenas are much less common in this last part of the game than they were earlier on, with the architectural bent shifting to favor a complex web of small chambers with several entrances/exits and interwoven corridors, often arrayed in such a way as to afford lots of views into/through other areas via grates, windows, trenches, etc. While map 21 had a similarly tight/intricate layout, its closed, discrete passages and relatively self-contained chambers aren't primed to host the inscrutable buzz of activity that this map's 'puzzle-cage' approach engenders--and if you think this is a madhouse, there's another map later on that really takes the idea to the extreme, in more ways than one! That being said, the play experience offered here seems like it can vary a lot from game to game, an outcome I suspect is based on so many different factors that it's difficult to really sort them out. Suffice to say that I had a totally different experience on this playthrough than I did when I first played the map from an earlier E3 beta: at that time, in typical Going Down fashion, the map presented me with a snowballing series of traps and monster reveals that had me scampering to and fro about the map with an ever-growing mob at my heels, but I ended up so flushed with health and ammo that I prevailed anyway. This time, I had a much more 'hands off' experience, where monsters seemed to keep appearing in areas next door to wherever I happened to be at any given moment, thus creating more complex but ultimately less pressuring crossfire scenarios (at least until they ended up infighting). The most unpredictable element seems to be the first arch-vile--he has a knack for wandering all over the level, sometimes rezzing a bunch of shit to come after you, other times using the vantage-rich layout to attack directly at odd moments. Ultimately, the huge pile of cells that becomes available once you get the blue skull does tend to trivialize the action somewhat (which is predicated on having the optional plasma gun, I guess, but it's not like it's hard to find), but it can have some bite early on if monsters path around in unusual ways (I actually ran nearly out of shells/bullets at one point). Its variability is probably its best attribute. Okay, second best attribute. Its BEST attribute is clearly its optional whack-a-mole minigame: pick up the berserk pack, make your way to the room with the weird pistoning zombie-teleporters, and try to smack each green-haired misfortunate as soon as he appears, before he pops out of sight. It's surprisingly addictive! 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
tourniquet Posted October 24, 2014 24: "Bridge of Blood" SP_HOT extravaganza, can't say enough how i love the look of all these red towers and buildings. The progession is not very complicated, get over the bridge/get the key/get back the the elevator, as long as you can handle the ~500 enemies that get in your way. The throne is a good spot to sustain and wait until SM and Cybies finished the cleanup. http://www.mediafire.com/download/bg0czthtxujz49v/gd24_TNq.lmp 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
cannonball Posted October 24, 2014 MAP24 - "Bridge of Blood" For all the monsters in this map, it actually isn't that hard. A load of barrel kills to start, and rocket spam middle and then let the boss monsters do all the hard work for you. There was plenty of action and fun to be had throughout. Love it. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
The_MártonJános Posted October 24, 2014 MAP24: Bridge of Blood Fuck yeah, I'm finally gotten to that fort I've looked for so long. It's not as lenghty and sophisticated as I've imagined after the peek shots from the previous two maps, but nevertheless, still one of the greatest maps in the set, which shouldn't be considered that much an admiration, since almost all maps are great and well-executed. My favourite implementation is the sector-based visual mechanism of the main gate leading to the Bridge itself, again with a great use of the MIDGRATE texture (after that MAP15 flush, I'm generally convinced that I've seen everything that needs to be done in Doom), and not to forget how mouldy made the bridge look "bridge-y" when observed from sideways, still "solid" when walking on it. A couple of ingenious Vanilla tricks and a lot of hidden sectors make this work at its finest. I'm lesser of a fan of showdown maps at this section of a MegaWAD, since some of the following maps are relatively easier than this one, and I'm greeted by a littler Nuts landscape to put it mildly, but I've gotten to live with it, because the affordable gameplay difficulty and the detail mouldy gives into his maps please me to a degree that I simply oversee minor issues. Clearing the first section may be risky if you don't choose to hunt all the baddies whilst camping in the shaft, but hardcore gamers - unlike me - are able to manage it even Dark Vampires-esque standing in the epicentre of the crowd, so no general complaint here. Stock up, kill some remaining Mancubi, open the gateway, enter the bridge. At the line of the Megasphere, suddenly another angry mob gets set free, and - no surprise - backshot again, Imps make your task harder on them. So smart I was to keep the barrels intact, but not too smart, having them destroyed for this ridiculous ambush (see the final part of the gameplay). The best strategy against the killer swarm is to get rid of about 90% before they reach the first pair of columns in the bridge, so they won't mean you a painful task to manage, even if now the rest can enter the first room. Unless you don't want the barrels to be damaged by then. Spider Mastermind strikes again. She does mean some difficulty, but it all depends on whether you find cover or not, have munition or not. She's rather of an intimidating role instead of a threat, relative to what happens after you activate that SW1HOT opposing the Invinciblity throne... Ahw yiss! Another massive ambush, these later maps just love to flood monsters all in and around. Those glass-caged Cyberdemons escape their captivity, too, as they spawn in the middle of the mob and cause severe infighting within no time to actually realise. Let it happen, at the end, they'll be pulling the shorter and you'll have less responsibility for yourself. Instead, just eliminate that little bastard who tries to reign on your well-deserved Invul sphere - at least when you got the red key -, take his place and teach the disturbers who's king of this castle. Sadly, your royalty won't last forever, as you have to enter deeper. In this process, you'll be obstructed once again, as some little motherfuckers still believe they can take on you, even if when HK's and Revvies failed to do so, and soon, all the first room is congested with lowest-tier warriors. Strength comes in unity, you know, but not even when the marine going down penetrates into your organisation. Thousands of gorey gibs start to populate the haunted hall, and even the once-again-warp-behind-you backup, the Mancubus Legion fail to stop you running amok. Coronation ceremony is dismissed. Why be a king when you can be a God and enter the underground Eden? 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
tourniquet Posted October 25, 2014 25: "Forbidden Fruit" Another very remarkable concept with the probably most innovative use of ZIMMER i've ever seen. Fantastic visualisation of the gnarly, 'evil' tree that seems to have overgrown the whole level with vines, roots and stuff. Though being one of the smallest maps in the set, it takes quite some time to finish this, mostly due to the combination of platforming, viles plus other vicious traps and the terrain which is a bit difficult to maneuver. http://www.mediafire.com/download/ntbgf2njup8jl2m/gd25_TNq.lmp 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
The_MártonJános Posted October 25, 2014 MAP25: Foribidden Fruit Ladies and Gentlemen, time is mature to observe mouldy having mapped something mouldy!!! *Ba dum tssss* No, seriously. This map looks hella good with all these vines and the natural physical demolition of the buildings seen in current time. I particularly dig how even some mechanical/artificial gardening is present amongst these walls, and all you should take into consideration that this scene is deep down below, meaning that there's no fucking chance for sunlight to even reach this territory. *Plays Bill Withers - Ain't no Sunshine on YouTube for instant* There must be truly something of heavenly power to keep all this lush vegetation alive. Did I say vegetation? More like fruitation. The concept here is a bit, really a bit showing similarity to MAP23, no wonder why both maps have astonishing aesthetics, but it's irrelevant to what I want to say... oh yes, the concept. There are like 16 or 17 modified Commander Keen sprites throughout the map, the destruction of all will reveal path to the blue key, which is the madatory upon completion, but don't rush forward this much. You'll have to wander in and around all the overgrown building to "harvest" all these delicacy of Eden, whilst getting rid of random monsters popping up in places. One of them even thought a step ahead and put one of the fruit into his fridge. Once again we get a glance at what we're in for, an outer perimeter trip on a balcony with view to the red fort will release a complete mob of Cacodemons guarding a couple of Elementals, who will spawn behind and around you if you're not careful enough. This was the only instance I had a - nine hundred thousand quotation marks - hard - end of nine hundred thousand quotation marks - time in this level, because related to any before and after, it's just horrifyingly easy. Apart from some good ol' backshot firing by them Cacos, and the final Archvile ambush-abusement - the one I luckily surpassed with no even bruise taken, but mostly adrenaline worked here -, you won't even drop a sweat in this map. Finding all the fruit means harder of a task than massacring your way through some "innocent" individuals restrictedly circling in one place and sometimes shooting fireballs. Again, the visuals. They're made out of stock textures as usual, and they look impeccably perfect how they're used, where they're used, etc. Personal favourites are the "fridge", one of the planted trees blowing a bloody hole to the wall of the lit underground greenhouse, the way one of the fruit is embedded into a lush alcove, and many other minor, but eye-pleasing bits of mouldy's present all over. The backlook to the red brick fort feels a bit dissonant to me, but it does its task in a degree that is expected, so I should hardly complain. Say goodbye to the so far healthiest map ever made (beats even HR MAP04), and head towards some dementia that awaits at down under. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
cannonball Posted October 25, 2014 MAP25 - "Forbidden Fruit" Well this looks gorgeous, and despite the tonnes of sectors here, movement isn't too bad to be honest. The traps are nasty but not overwhelming. Just a lot of fun in a very unique map with a pretty unique concept. The next map looks rather bland..... or have I simply lost my marbles So, what's the plan for next month then? 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
Gez Posted October 25, 2014 In Forbidden Fruit, I noticed a twisted tree playing peek-a-boo. Doom only displays actors when the sector that their center-point is in is visible, so large actors in tiny sectors can flicker in and out of existence abruptly. It might be less of a problem when you play without mouse look, since the entire area might be hidden if your view is fixed to the horizontal. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
mouldy Posted October 25, 2014 Gez said:Doom only displays actors when the sector that their center-point is in is visible, so large actors in tiny sectors can flicker in and out of existence abruptly. Excellent, I was aware of this problem but didn't know thats what caused it, so I can fix that now. Cheers for that! While I'm here.. Map24 - two rooms and a corridor http://www.mediafire.com/download/4ddfh2no4l4t2mf/gd-mouldy-24.lmp The idea of the final episode was to be an evil mirror of episode 1, traveling down through a tower set in an underground hell-city. I'd dropped a few hints of this in previous maps, but here I wanted to make it clear, which meant taking the player outside of the tower so they could see for themselves. So being something of a scene-setting map i thought it would be fun to place the player into a scene from a larger narrative as well, where there are two towers which are constantly at war with each other via a bridge (a bit like that scene from the Good the Bad and the Ugly). Doomguy is dropped into the middle of this eternal battle and causes havoc, pitching one side against the other until the whole place is seething with infighting. How well this story comes across I couldn't say, but its a fun bit of carnage to put between 2 exploratory collect-em-all maps. The best way to tackle it is releasing everything at once, in the demo above I triggered the final archno/manc ambush during the cyber battle to add to the chaos. I could probably have saved a couple of minutes if I joined in the fighting, but its too much fun watching them all kill each other. You can end up with a ton of ammo for the next map if you play it like that, but I wanted to be sure it was also possible to kill everything yourself as well if you so choose. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
Veinen Posted October 25, 2014 Casual maxes for 20, 21 and 22: https://www.mediafire.com/?59qrhn5w7rbzarx Map20: Mouth of Madness Really simple stuff this, just press some switches, grab the BFG and engage in a slaughterfest. There's a ton of free space to move around and with just a little bit of aggressiveness you can limit the dangers to the central redrock mountain area. The surrounding lava fields are damaging so it can limit the movement or at least can lead to situations where the player has to choose from the lesser of two evils (say, between sticking on the central area and getting pounded by the Cybers or taking a small stroll in the lava fields to avoid said pounding). Of course the damaging floors make no difference whatsoever from an uv-maxers point of view since mouldy generously supplies some radsuits in a rather easily accessible secret area. But yes, the map is a proper bloodbath once it gets going. It's quite easy overall and minimal infighting is required as ammo is abundant. Lot of powerups too so wasn't something at least I had to worry about too much. Demo is actually my first recording attempt too (had a practice playthrough to get to know the map of course), which is pretty telling of the difficulty I think. It's an enjoyable map overall, and sufficiently short for being so straightforward. Map21: Indigestion Tyson gameplay? Ughh... I didn't like this at all when I played it for the first time but it was a little more enjoyable now with some kind of a strategy in place and foreknowledge of what's gonna happen and when. You don't even have to do much punching after all as most of the hordes will start battling each other spontaneously or you can lure easily lure them to do so. The crusher pillar thingys will do some helpful work of their own too. Visuals are pretty interesting to say the least, pretty nice work. Map22: Constipation Station This was just a strange map. Very much non-linear and the layout is rather interestingly designed. I suffered from some waiting around in my demo in this map as well but I suspect it can be helped somewhat by just rushing to the BK asap, yes? That would make things a good bit tougher but that's hardly a problem for an uv-maxer in such a short map. I'm not sure if this would eradicate the problem completely though as the teleportations felt awfully slow and random. I'm also not quite sure what the point of those zombiemen elevators is but perhaps there is some higher meaning there I can't see heh. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
Memfis Posted October 25, 2014 Gez said:Doom only displays actors when the sector that their center-point is in is visible, so large actors in tiny sectors can flicker in and out of existence abruptly. THANK YOU, I've been wondering what causes this for ages. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
mouldy Posted October 25, 2014 Veinen said:I'm also not quite sure what the point of those zombiemen elevators is but perhaps there is some higher meaning there I can't see heh. Purely for my own amusement, "Hostile decorations" I guess you could call them. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
tourniquet Posted October 26, 2014 26: "Insanity" The map gives a rather bland first impression with lot's of symmetrical rooms lined up in several rows. It's also slightly confusing and easy to stray. But once you've discovered one of the switches the place performs a complete shapshift, confronting you with a whole different terrain filled with all kinds of hellspawn. Mouldy strikes again with another very cool and flawlessly executed concept, the exit transition simply blew me away the first time i played this and it still does. http://www.mediafire.com/download/785t72fn987fw6t/gd26_TNq.lmp 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
The_MártonJános Posted October 26, 2014 "Descending into the darkness, suddenly horrifying screams from beyond death start to fade into and fill your brain. The whole shaft gets through a transition, now the wood fences are removed and blood leaks into it, from everywhere to everywhere, leaving stains. That ominous eye in place of the switch you pressed so damn often urges you to leave as soon as possible - the doomed shaft can now turn deadly any time..."MAP26: Insanity Hell yes, this map is fucking insane just to look at and in both forms. First you enter a bland undeground scape which looks as a covert city with endless alleys and tons of identical shafts as houses. The major difference is that these shafts have doors on both sides. Rarely you come accross some blood stains on the floors, all of which are emitting light and usually contain some weaponry of munition, and more often Imps intervene into your wandering around. Then you find a shaft which seems unharmed, with some more to see inside, and as you enter, the neighbouring shaft opens up with a Baron inside. You take over the bastard and are about to leave, when all of a sudden, you stumble accross a large skull switch inside. Curious, you pull the lever and... Yikes. The whole dark scenery turns into an utter nightmare, mostly resembling to that you've stuck into a gigantic broken-down sausage filler along with some metallic elevator shafts and tons of hellspawn around. This sure does not bode much good. The matter of that even if bloodfall-y walls are brightened enough to be visible, you're still stuck into the middle of darkness simply proves itself to be a task overload for you. I admit I had a harder time in this map than in most of the previous ones, this proved to be more of a challenge, given the rough landscape to navigate and fireballs from each and every direction one's sure prone to run into if not careful enough. The more matter is that apart the one besides the switch that starts it all, you'll find absolute no armor throughout, meaning that once you've used it up all, you'll have to suffer all attacks in their real potential. I found three Supercharges, but neither Megaspheres, nor any type of armor, which made me a bit more careful in progression. Anyways, the instincts of pussy methods have helped me once again, since I found out that every second shaft on the perimeter remained almost intact, given that through only two relatively narrow doorways you can enter and nowhere else. Eliminating sneak crossfires, here I come! - shouted I as getting rid of a mob of Imps in one of aforementioned shafts. This also made me discover both secrets, though they're signed as one, and you've gotten to find 100% if you found either, but whatsoever, they're unofficially two, period. Made my saliva flow rivers to discover a BFG - the last time I held a devastating bastard was right before the Monster consumed me, so I bravely entered the field of actions once again, and soon halfened the remaining population, which was still overload, but I was no more prone to run into crossfires. The left-over action ended quickly and I was already disappointed that this was over, but then I pressed that eyeball and it sent me flying through the entire fleshy bloodbath scenery to fade into oblivion. Then I was in the shaft again like nothing happened... was it really just a bad dream, or did I just let my imagination run wild while trying to figure out what's really going on? Never mind, press that switch now once again and see what happens. Hmm, those faces are moving upwards, meaning I'm going downward. I think it's okay... YOU MEANT FACES????? 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
dew Posted October 26, 2014 Joining right at the end, heh. I've got a pack of FDAs, so at least that might be interesting for mouldy. Pistol starts, UV, pr+ cl9. Here's the first part: http://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/1317166 map01: Going Up Heh, breaking the concept in map01, I like your style. I'll also get the music issue out of the way: I saw some people bitch about it, claiming it doesn't fit the action on screen/atmosphere/blah blah. I thought it was a bit funny that some of them were strong defenders of BtSX's "gay music" before turning tables here. I like the music, I think the zany, upsetting and slightly uncomfortable vibe goes well with the playfulness and gimmickiness of the entire wad. It'd get annoying and grating if maps took too long to complete, but they're usually bite-sized and finishable under 20-30 minutes, so I'm down with it. Alright, back to map. I'm not enamored. Pistol action is lame and even though I'm a fan of chaos, it felt kinda laborous to get rid of the pests. The map also tortured me with small annoyances. While avoiding some baddies, I got boosted on some railings and shot out of the service elevator back on the ground level, bah. I bumped the SG early from outside of the sergeant hut, but it made no difference, sigh. I fell out of the sergeant hut later, slippery floor or something, grr. Then I got locked in the elevator and couldn't check whatever I possibly missed, woe is my life. It's not a bad pistol map, the action is actually decent too, but I'd say it's simply a bad concept not even you can make properly fun. map02: Evil Admin I've noticed people dissing the map for being plain and whatnot and even you considering it your weakest piece, but I didn't mind that. It's a concept that was expected and I thought it was done well enough. It's not like you can make it better than Disgruntled Former Employee anyways. Pissed off imp repairmen, ugly corporate paintings and evil HK middle management were great, ideas and jokes like those are endearing and drew me into your game pretty fast. The downside of this map is, at least in my experience, the vicious difficulty on UV pistol start. The armorless start with hitscanners everywhere and very limited shells is bloody murder and I only survived dropping out of the duct crawl, because RNG gods were kind to me and, unlike the previous death, a zombie didn't hit me for 15. If one triggers the repair imps and then the final invasion, it's quite likely to run out of ammo, I had to punch out a sergeant with non-berserked fist, bah. All the chainguns just barely out of reach on the cubicle tables were extra agitating for that reason - and why is it possible to climb the admin table, but not the worker ones? And why are the windows impassible? It's probably necessary for your plans, but they're small annoyances nonetheless. Wouldn't it make sense if the invis was at the end of the hallway, in front of the first chainer? Or the armor? map03: Crawl Space Heh, gimmicks turned to 11. I got a strong KSutra impression out of this map, all the tyson action is very Gustian. I'm a big fan, so you had me sold immediatelly. Having to tiptoe around was a good concept and everything exploding into a punch out over the mastermind's corpse was superfun. Didn't mind the baron or the HKs, even though one of the latter gave me a bad time, dominating a lift out of the ducts. Also middle management secretly worshipping Adolf... I knew it. Thumbs up, only real dickmove was the caco released behind my back, but it was partly my fault for not switching to the saw quickly. Thumbs and fists up. map04: Blood and Rockets A fancy demonic lobby, just like in a corp I used to work for... Anyways, I went left at start and I think I chose the easier route, although I suspect the right one would be more exciting. On the other hand, I wouldn't be able to blast those zombie/imp hordes with rox, so all is good. I almost died there because my own greed and overoptimizing resource usage. Would've served me right. Boxing demons is fun, but rocket blasting hordes of them by abusing infinite actor height is my secret fetish, so that gave me twisted joy. The final caco invasion was decent enough, although I wished I was in the main lobby for it, not cornered in the imp section again. Good map in the vein of Scythe e2, TVR or late Demonfear. Oh yeah and I've managed to grab the resources on the middle ledge in the lobby prematurely, then I also jumped out of the window, which was p cool (a chance to add an easter egg?), but there's some HOMage to be seen there. map05: Time Warp Nice gimmick. Not hard to figure out, but nicely executed. The derelict grim future looks cool, too. I got swiss cheesed by running out there too adventurously and your pistol start vs. hitscan roughness was too much for me. A more careful approach led to some ugly door camping, that wasn't necessary and slows the demo down, but starting to pick up on your personal tropes by this map, I do get rather defensive. I was dominating the map pretty comfortably and then a fateful slip when firing the RL made things very exciting and tense again, a.k.a. Good At Doom. I've managed to use that invul properly though. I think the questionably used cacos were already reported. Cool map, solid challenge! map06: Painframe Ah, this map looks like a right mess. Not really fan of the busy visuals, but then again I get a slight System Shock flashback and I can live with that. Layout also bothers me a bit, because there are sharp edges and narrow where I'd expect something easily accessible from all directions, but that's the DM player in me. The monster placement/invasions are excellent fun though. Its bark is worse than its bite (see my almost audible NOPE right at start of the map, heh), the cyberspace battle is actually piss easy, only the final fight gave me real trouble. Speaking of the cyberspace, I actually thought that was a dancefloor for some reason, heh. Oh and that speedrunning trick you can see me testing on the upper step totally works, although I had to get a rocket boost to make it. I've also tested if it's possible to do a rjump with a barrel boost from the outer ledges to land directly on the lowered central parts and outcome is maybe? I couldn't do it, but it felt like I was almost there. In positive news, I couldn't bump the RK or skip the teleporter line. map07: Bad Reception I can dig a good Dead Simple clone and this one works for me. I was doing it very, very wrong though. I kept losing health for stupid reasons, then clinging to life hidden in some alcove, blah. Of course, I set the spider free too early and got punished for my hubris in both the attempt in which I died and in the one I survived. The arachs are more nasty than they look, the way they move around. I was afraid I'd rocket myself in da face whenever I tried to get rid of them. The cramp works in the monsters' favour in here. Fun map, I can imagine a really cool looking max for this, the player dancing in the utter chaos without the megasphere (unlike my scaredy hiding). map08: Hide and Seek I'm a fan of Hunted clones and solid crate mazes with some jumping action don't offend me, so this was alright by me. Cute trick with viles breaking out of crates. Fights were just enough challenging, I'd say. map09: Broken Records Awesome map, one of my favourites. When completely open, the layout has a certain DM quality to it, I can imagine a good oldschool Dwango-style FFA on it. Symmetrical, but not identical, so navigation ability doesn't suffer. Many bonus points for letting monsters move around with surprising agility, I love seeing that. And it's a pretty library, that's always a winner. map10: Trip Switch Techbase AND sewers! Was this going for a quake2 feel? It sorta looks that way. I felt underwhelmed by the first part. I probably cheesed the rev fight in an unintended way, but it didn't look that exciting anyways and I'm glad all the skeleton corpses were tightly stacked in a corner where the AV couldn't find them. :P The main battle was great, I defended my safe spot, but I almost ran out of all ammo, so it was getting tense. Sacrificing some health to get rid of the AVs worked well though. The baron power plant is weird, but by now my disbelief is properly suspended. I just think your mechanisms for uprooting campers like me didn't work properly despite trying. Not just the utter sabotage of the rev fight, but the imp reinforcements that were supposed to scare me off the mega spot at the teleports were way too easy to dispatch. Some HKs would be much more menacing. Also the lift wasn't too effective at lifting barons, but it did manage to get some up to me. Yeah, I'm complaining because I played terribly, but I thought you might want to do something about that. :) map11: Vivisection Oh wow, this map is ugly as hell, haha. Reminds me of some early bad DM maps, but this time the cramped hallways and windows everywhere have the greatest reason. Yeah, the cyb is goddamn excellent threat, well done! I lucked out, because I've managed to snatch the SSG and then used the invul just right despite missing the RL at first. I almost found the plasma too, but all the random noises covered recognizing the sound I was searching for. Anyways, great cyb introduction and very exciting, crazy gameplay. The FDA captures how panicked I actually was, I think, so the successful outcome can be attributed to crazy luck. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
mouldy Posted October 26, 2014 Excellent, cheers for the demos dew, that'll keep me busy for a while. Also I've been enjoying Cell's write-ups, very entertaining. Long may they continue. I should say a few words about Map25 - the hunt for the deadly testicles http://www.mediafire.com/download/se45bpj1no71j4o/gd-mouldy-25.lmp Bit of a slower paced breather map before the chaos of the next few. It also gave me a chance to use the keens, though it would look too goofy not to change them so I recoloured some existing sprites, think they are bfg plasma balls. They look like fleshy ball-bags now, I guess thats kind of fitting. So, the setting is a map that once was, but has since crumbled into ruin thanks to whatever plant-based experiments were going on here once upon a time. The navigation has also suffered, and impedes both player and monsters alike, though I did my best to ease the suffering with some false floors here and there. Even the automap has eroded, leaving clues to the whereabouts of the puzzle pieces. This map is not too difficult I guess, though it somehow managed to kick my arse a lot when trying to record a demo. Once the caco trap is sprung, they are released in pockets according to whether you have picked up the rocket launcher/plasma rifle, so I like to set it off after getting both for maximum swarm, though I wouldn't be brave enough to set everything else off as well, as there isn't enough elbow room to go crazy. Final vile/rev spawn is a bit limp maybe, more of a road block in case you try to grab the key and rush the exit. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.