The DWmegawad Club plays: Rylayeh & Crimson Canyon & Azagthoth

[Demon of the Well]

Map 07 -- Blood Yard - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets - Bonus demo.
The demo's fairly quick (not speedrunner quick or anything, mind you, and I stupidly forget to take the red key at first in the end), definitely benefited from knowledge (re)gained from my first run in Eternity--in that one I got a bit lost. I don't find the layout itself difficult to navigate or keep my bearings in, but it took me forever and a day to find the skullswitch on the marble slab that builds the stairs to the mastermind platform, must've run past it a dozen times before I noticed it had appeared. Incidentally, the level doesn't seem to reliably work quite right in prBoom+: I think the mastermind is supposed to rise out of its pit more or less at the same time it's first revealed (which also gives you access to the last switch), but this doesn't happen reliably outside of ZDoom, apparently. Fortunately, there seems to be a failsafe built in: the floor of the pit also rises on a walkover trigger just in front of the switch alcove, so you can still finish the level even if the intended mechanism fails. Weird.

Anyway, I said earlier that I didn't recall much about this level, but the opening shot jogged my memory, and I regained a feel for it pretty quickly (the demo above was my second run at it this go-round, which shows in the sloppiness, but my familiarity with the layout also looks fairly evident). It's a Dead Simple map, not something I'm known to be very fond of, but this one has its virtues, I think. As others have remarked, it's best in its first half, when monsters swarm and path in sometimes unpredictable ways through the complex layout, always more or less honing in on the player, yet sometimes approaching from unexpected angles or at unexpected times. One of the things I tend to dislike about many Dead Simple-alikes is that the mancubi and/or arachnatrons are so often deployed as turrets (I feel that static enemies tend to be less satisfying to defeat, especially if they are HP-laden); while this is true of the mancubi in this case, here I don't mind so much because there's a mobile ground force that supplies most of the real action, with the mancs serving as hostile MacGuffins on the periphery.

The second half of the action isn't as good, mostly a function of monster deployment. The arachnatrons (and the nobles and others that accompany them) aren't used as turrets, fortunately, but during 'average' casual play they probably aren't nearly as pressuring a ground force as the early mobs. This is partially a function of the arachs' unwieldy hitboxes, but primarily due to the way they are all found around the outer periphery, and of the handling of sound leaking/monster deafness in the level--unless you willfully run around stirring them all up at once, the outer force tends to wake up piecemeal, and be confronted bit by bit rather than as a concerted assault, and thus is less interesting than the relative chaos of the earlier action. I reckon that if the peripheral monsters could all be activated by the first gunshot in the way that most of the earlier group is, the same thing that worked for the first half of the level would work for the second, but alas, it's not the case. Granted, if you know the map well enough you can have a goodly romp; but comments thus far suggest that Rylayeh is much more enjoyable on a revisit than it is for most folks on first contact.

Map 08 -- Keen Eyes - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets - Unholy shit does this demo suck.
Ah, yes, I remembered this one as clear as day, although I do believe this was the first time I've ever found the strange and only marginally useful blocking-bars secret. The map's name makes its progression concept very plain, and if that's not enough, there's a 'The Grim Reaper'-esque "hint" on one of the walls instructing the player what to do. Incidentally, other than the possible exception of 'Irkallia', I don't think that destroying the Keen Eyes in the previous maps actually accomplishes anything (or at least not anything mandatory to progression); this map is their last hurrah, so perhaps the idea was that destroying them has been a quest you've been undertaking all along, only culminating at this point. On the topic of theming, again I like the shapes and architecture of this map, and the texturing is also a little more varied than in most of the other maps as well. While there have been complaints about the utilitarian lighting choices in prior maps (particularly in the darker ones), I have mostly disagreed that it was a problem; here, however, I think the uniformly dim (not really 'dark') lighting level does leave something to be desired, as the structure/layout of the map provides a lot of potential for interesting lighting contrasts that mostly goes untapped--for instance, there could've been a striking contrast between the interior and exterior 'rings' in the main area, but no dice.

Combat is simple but violent here. The battalion of hell knights/greenies early on is a little bit of an ammo-sink concern for pistol-starters, underscoring the value of foreknowledge in the mapset (e.g. knowing where the SSG, berserk pack, and rocket launcher are), but otherwise don't represent a particularly interesting encounter. The marquee 'rings' area is more fun, as it offers ample potential for unleashing most of the monster population at once, which makes for some fairly engaging action if the outer zombie reinforcements (plus anything from the initial force you may have left out there) start pouring into the inner ring while the main event with the cyberdemon/nobles/others is still going on. It's palatable enough, but the overall monster/thing balance could've done with some tweaking--I think the reinforcements to the outer hallways are actually not numerous enough (they don't flood in fast enough at their current level of concentration), and I wish that the distribution of rocket ammo was a little more frontloaded, to facilitate a smoother clear of the back end of the outer ring. The number of Barons present in the inner ring will naturally tend to encourage most modern players to weaponize the cyberdemon; unfortunately, they're numerous enough to where they sometimes crush him early, leaving a lot of cleanup for the player (and less potential for amusing cyb-versus-zombie-squad scenarios).

Again, foreknowledge and/or an aggressive playstyle make for some decent action here, but I think it's one of the set's weaker maps, more than anything because it needed a different balance (read: more high explosives, and more delightful trashmonster-spam).

[Magnusblitz]

MAP09: Kthulhu
86% kills, 3/7 secrets

Ugh, back to the tiny corridors. Thankfully, nothing in this map is really a drag (apart from maybe the start if you pistol started and don't know where the shotgun is) and opposition is fairly light, apart from one section stuffed to the hilt with the now-trademark former human swarm. After that, it's a bit of an IoS setup, albeit one that lacks any real punch (since it's fairly easy to just climb up into the structure and stay away from all the spawned monsters). The hardest part is figuring out how to shoot the damn head, I eventually settled for going about halfway up the stairs and using the splash. The lighting in the blue key room really underscores my complaints about the darkness in the prior maps, I think - a lot more interesting visually because of the parts that are glowing.

[dobu gabu maru]

MAP10: Well... that was a very fitting end to the mapset. This chokepoint is probably going to be the only thing I remember from the map, as I had the great idea to run through the area, aggro everyone, and then just explore the rest of the level while the monsters infight (especially since there were so many mancs). Little did I know that doing two of the key paths just spawned more enemies into that room, and it was aggravating to try and find a way past this monster-flooded chokepoint into the place where all the ammo was. Otherwise the map felt like more of the same. I liked returning to the sub to get the hell out of there.

Overall: If there's one thing you can say about Rylayeh, it's that it feels cohesive. Graham does a good job in keeping the maps consistent in theme and color (largely thanks to the drab texture set), and though it wasn't as spooky as I was expecting, I did like how alien some of the maps felt. But man, was combat all over the place. When I wasn't chainsawing pinkies at close range I was dodging imp fireballs in 64-wide corridors and standing in front of a door and holding the shoot button down for seconds at a time. If you like mowing down low-tier enemies it can be a lot of fun, but for me there weren't nearly enough interesting gameplay implementations to keep me intrigued. Reminded me quite a bit of Vile Flesh, where I feel that playing through on -nomonsters would be more my style. Shame.

Faves were MAP02 & MAP06, least favorites were MAP04 & MAP09.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP10 The Return

ooh, this is an annoying hitscanner outing, pretty much all the way to the main hub where there are three keys on pedestals that I must lower. the yellow key took me awhile to figure out. the switch that lowers the blue key had a fun fight to it. that chokepoint too is all I can remember most though. I see why it's called "the return" because of how the map wraps back to the very first map, which is empty except for a lone archie. even the submarine reappears. and thus endeth Rylayeh.

I like the themes, but the gameplay should have been better overall. and no more dumbass lifts like the ones in MAP03. at least Crimson Canyon I'm familiar with so I'm trippin' for it.

[scifista42]

Crimson Canyon

MAP01 - "Power Station"

The author apparently likes making long levels of a coherent style. Alright. This map was comparable with Rylayeh's (not only) first map. I actually liked Power Station better, maybe simply because sci-fi setting appeals to me better than a mysterious temple setting. I liked the tech details. I liked the map structure as well, it could be navigated through relatively well and wasn't too elaborate. Playing it was enjoyable for me - lots of low-tier enemies weren't really tedious to kill, because advancing through the environment kept my interest. I'm looking forward to the rest of the wad, even if the style remains coherent as it did in Rylayeh.

[Salt-Man Z]

Rylayeh MAP06: Quadragoth
I was wary when I saw people describing this as "arena-style", as that connotes "slaughtermap" to me, a style of which I'm not a huge fan (with exceptions; Ribbiks' stuff is amazing, but I still need to be in the right mood to tackle it) so I was delightfully surprised by the map. Again, lots of hitscanners (yay) and the arenas themselves were always interesting, architecture-wise: my favorite was probably the manc/revvie room with the raised dais surrounded by stairs. I managed 100% everything except for some poor monster who got himself lost inside a teleporter closet. Might be my all-around least favorite map so far, but it sure was fun to play. (Sounds weird, I know.)

[mouldy]

MAP10 - "The Return"

Well now, the last map. I knew it was going to be an odd one when I shot about 50 monsters through a tiny window right at the start. A great deal of mowing down swathes of weaklings in corridors, and yet despite the amount of ammo they dropped, and the amount of infighting I got going, I still didn't have enough ammo to deal with all the walking beef. I think maybe that was the point, to run away with monsters chasing you like indiana jones. Its a little bit frustrating but I can live with it. There were some strange rooms that seemed like they should have had more going on in them. Ah now i think of it, I did gun down all those demons even though I had a chainsaw, but no way I was going to carve through that lot. Anyway, it was a nice moment to recognise the first map and realise where I was. I didn't get a single secret, and with a dozen barons chasing me around I didn't really feel like wall humping, so legged it to the sub. One thing I will say in its favour, was I liked how non linear it was.

I can't say this is a set of maps I am likely to play again, it felt like a bit of a missed opportunity for a lovecraft themed adventure. The textures are very limited and drab, the layouts were interesting but cramped and a bit repetitive in places, and could have used a bit of detail to spruce things up.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP10: The Return
99% kills, 4/6 secrets

Kinda sums up a lot of this mapset... there's the usual huge hitscanner swarm at the start, as well as lots of monsters with just not quite enough ammo to deal with them (the western room with the snowflake was somewhat insulting, I wasted all my ammo taking out the demons/hell knights only to find out the room was... completely pointless!) Then there's the return back to the oddly empty first map to tie it all together. The one night thing I can say is that this map isn't quite linear, so there's a bit of an exploration vibe while you try to figure out where the key switches are.

Overall

This is not a good mapset... but at the same time, I can understand why people kept recommending it. There's a host of issues - many of the maps are just filled with 64-wide corridors, or similarly skinny floors above huge caverns. Gameplay is pretty forgettable, every map features one huge swarm of hitscanners (usually at the start to provide the shotgun/chaingun/ammo) followed by lots of wasted meat of demons and hell knights. There aren't really any memorable ambushes, fights or gameplay setups, it's all just corridor shooting (with a few "arena" setups in the middle maps). Aesthetically, all the maps are a fairly indistinguishable blob of the same few green and grey textures... marble skull bricks, a new grey brick texture, sladwall, and that's pretty much it.

So why do I say I can understand the recommendations? While I wouldn't say it succeeds at feeling Lovecraftian (why is Lovecraft "turn everything green and grey/black"?) it does succeed at providing a cohesive feel. A fairly unique one, too - there's none of Doom's usual techbases, or redrock Hell, or Doom II's earthy browns. There's also some interesting angles in the architecture, though I'd still stick to my early assertion that these are really only noticable while looking at the minimap - a rectangle placed at a 70 degree angle is still a rectangle when played at street view, regardless of how it looks from above. I think it might've been better off as a Heretic or Hexen mapset, but maybe the author felt that would be a bit too close to the source material. As it stands, it's certainly got a different feel from most Doom maps. In the end, though, it's an average set of maps at best, and I don't think I'd ever feel a desire to play them again - too much grind, not enough reward.

Best Maps: MAP06, MAP07
Worst Maps: MAP01, MAP03

[Salt-Man Z]

Rylayeh MAP07: Blood Yard
Actually enjoyed this one quite a bit, up until the end. Reminded me a fair bit of MAP02, but with a much simpler and far less vertical--and much more wide open--layout. Opposition was pretty light, all things considered (especially when fully stocked from playing continuous) but charging blindly in (as I did on my first go, knowing I didn't have the time to sit down and play through properly) can be devastating. Even during my proper run tonight, I lost most of my carried-over megasphere to an errant chaingunner that crept up on me from one of the oddly-angled corners. I said I enjoyed this up until the end, and that's because not only did the mastermind battle feel anticlimactic (especially given my full arsenal) but I didn't expect that to be the end. But no, that was the final demon, and the rest of my time was spent wandering around looking for the red key, then finding the red door, and oh, that's it?

[NuMetalManiak]

Crimson Canyon MAP01 Power Station

I missed that first armor as I was fighting these guys. now these hitscanners take center stage in terms of enemies, and they're everywhere enough to be quite annoying. fits the power station bill well I guess. once I got a chaingun I used it for almost the whole level except for the hellknights.

[Magnusblitz]

So, onwards to Crimson Canyon, then?

MAP01: Power Station
100% kills, 4/5 secrets

Well, having just played 10 maps by the same author, one can definitely see some of the same design cues... large hitscanner swarm at the start, a bit of opposition teleporting in to the start when the player returns, and using doors instead of switches as the exit triggers. There's also a touch of cutesy, like the weird triple color torch thing near the end. Overall, not bad, though the start is the most interesting part of the level before it devolves into fairly standard corridor shooting (though, thankfully, the corridors aren't just a bunch of long 64-wide corridors here). I dig that sky, too, making the sky orange instead of red really helps it pop more.

[Suitepee]

http://www.twitch.tv/johnsuitepee/c/5478968 = Rylayeh playthrough, all 10 maps covered. (continuous)

Lovecraft meets Doom, and despite some bugbears I'll give this a 3 out of 5.

The music was mostly fitting (except map 03, which bugged several people in the livestream chat also!), the visuals were nice and particularly so with the jaggedness of maps 02/07, and for the most part the gameplay was a nicely paced murder spree of monsters.

I didn't like map 03 with that stupidly slow lift, nor map 04, and the IoS fight on map 09 was another disappointment (I'm not a big fan of IoS fights to be fair though, but I didn't think this one was all that great). Otherwise, the gameplay was fun fun fun and reminded me a bit of Double Impact at times. Some creative ideas also seen at times, like the Lost Souls coming through the walls on map 06 or the nice arenas of map 05. (the SM/Cyber reveals on map 07/08 could perhaps have done with a bit more chaos though, a bit underwhelming to be honest on both occasions)

Blood Yard was my favourite map of the set.

Here's hoping Crimson Canyon is even better.

(P.S. The lack of REVENANTS was nice to see for a change!)

[Demon of the Well]

Map 09 -- Kthulhu - 103% Kills / 100% Secrets - Bonus demo w/ kamikaze ending.
Something of a trial of ordeals before facing off with one of the Old Ones, or an aspect/vestige of one of them, at least. While somewhat complex in layout (e.g. more of the over/under 3D stuff), the path through this funereal shrine is quite linear--perhaps more linear than in any other map, meaning that the combat is often very direct/starkly frontal in nature, as well. While it seems that Plums' disappearance has left me as the mapset's ordained apologist (we both thought the quirky setting and mass-murdering of zombies/imps would go down better than it has, I'm sure), and many of its characteristic design choices--corridor-heavy layouts, low light levels, progression gimmicks, liberal usage of fodder enemies, etc.--are things I personally see as virtues in its particular case, the truth is that I don't really care for this map, either. Other than the finale, it is perhaps a little too direct, cramped, and linear all at once, and while I've been saying this whole time that knowing a bit about the maps (or simply having a fortuitous intuition or a brashly aggressive nature) makes many of them quite fun to blast through, that angle doesn't really hold up here, where you start off having to methodically pistol your way through something like eight or nine imps in rapid succession before you can realistically acquire a shotgun. The restricted layout and direct monster placement remove a lot of potential for the optionality and alternate/efficient/flashy approaches that I was able to take in previous maps; this one's going to play about the same any way you slice it, and that way is fairly slow for the majority of the runtime--kind of telling that perhaps the most individually troublesome enemy in the whole game is the single pain elemental in the basement, blockaded in by a wall of green meat with no really good way to get an angle on him, given the layout. It's not all bad--perhaps predictably, I do like the gratuitous zombie slaughter later on, particularly the army in the closet that follows you in after you've made it partway inside. I do wonder what might've been if there'd been more than just that one arch-vile (who sometimes comes out to meet you and sometimes simply loafs around up by the yellow key), perhaps two in front and another at the back of the army that approaches from the rear....

The IoS setup is a little bit of an anticlimax, which for some folks is probably more of a blessing than anything--it uses the default monster spawn rate, and unless a lot of pain elementals or cacodemons spawn in, most of the monsters have trouble actually climbing up onto the central dais, rendering them an almost total non-issue unless it takes you forever and a day to figure out the simple four-switch preamble for some reason. Actually getting autoaim to target the starspawn's undulating noggin can be the trickiest part of the encounter, since the actual entity and its hitbox are much shorter than the sprite itself--I find that it's much less hassle to damage it indirectly via rocket-splash, by firing into one of the surrounding marble pillars. Incidentally, I've died in the final explosions literally every time I've played this...apparently if you're standing in the right minaret you can escape unscathed?

Edit: Note that, under classic settings/game parameters, one of the secrets in this map can only be reached with SR50....but it's easy to reach with a true jump via ZDoom or other port. Perhaps it was this secret which prompted Graham to add the somewhat confusing/misleading note in the textfile that some secrets may require jumping in order to reach?

Map 10 -- The Return - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets - Bonus demo.
I said earlier that I suspect 'Quadragoth' might've been more the mysterious Otey's work than Graham's, but seeing this map again, I reckon this is probably the most likely candidate for being Otey's progeny (though of course the final area is a callback to Graham's map 01)--the look and feel of its structures is a bit different. Rooms are bigger, chunkier, and while still somewhat irregularly-shaped, tend to be more identifiable as boxes or yards with freestanding features scattered about in them. Texture alignment is also rougher as well, though it's not so bad as to command the player's attention at every step.

Questions of parentage aside, the way the meat of the map plays is a little different, as well, though certainly not wildly out of step with what we've seen earlier in Rylayeh. Yet again, I'll bring up the topic of foreknowledge; if having it in prior maps was useful for maximizing the maps' playability/navigability/flexibility, in this one it's all but necessary for conquering (though not necessarily for simply surviving) the map, given a strange frontloaded ammo distribution courtesy of a veritable legion of undead and a commensurately backloaded distribution of demonic muscle. I suspect that the authors may have expected players to opt to flee from the final battalion of nobles and their diabolical high priest at the end, which would seem to make sense from a narrative/cinematic standpoint; opting instead to eradicate the last of the city's current round of wakeful denizens requires some planning and exploratory prowess, including for all practical intents and purposes the location of most or all secrets.

Incidentally, there's a certain subtle whimsy to this map, beginning with its first secret, which, though very simple, remains one of the strangest secrets I've seen in a PWAD to date....I'm still not entirely sure if it's simply an oversight or not that there's no actual item in it, but my interpretation of the best way to benefit from it is found in the demo. Rolling out from here, the map is casually nonlinear in comparison to most of the others, allowing you to tackle the three rites to access the three keys (all of which are needed to exit) in the order of your choosing. Note, however, that while any order is theoretically possible, from a pistol-start, some itineraries are vastly more effective than others, and only one or two reliably allow for a reasonably smooth maxkills run--it's particularly important to get the rocket launcher at the right time and to maximize the damage potential of its coyly limited ammo stock, to move and act in ways conducive to stirring up some choice infighting (which requires shutting the semi-secret 'gate' to the upper yard early on, only opening it when necessary during the final leg), and making efficient usage of the seemingly-huge-yet-surprisingly-scant stockpile of incidental ammo from the scores of zombie corpses that will be created early in the proceedings (which in turn essentially requires early location of the secret backpack). As a whole, finding a strategy for conquering the map is mainly satisfying/entertaining on a 'meta' level, and thus indirectly helps it to stand out from the other maps, a fortunate thing since much of the actual combat itself is less artful/immediately engaging than that of some of the early maps--as always, I enjoy the absurd quantity of zombies to plow through early on, but many of the other areas have too much of a loose balance of gobs of meat in combination with open space and simple terrain to be truly engaging or threatening outside of the potential they have for draining your ammo to nothing.

An interesting choice for the mapset's finale, at any rate. An epilogue that plays like a campaign? Not the set's best map, nor its worst.

[dobu gabu maru]

Suitepee said:

P.S. The lack of REVENANTS was nice to see for a change!

YA DON'T SAY :P

Anyway, I wasn't going to touch Graham's other stuff but after watching Suitepee's stream I decided to give it another try. Difference here is that I'll be playing continuous so I can at least keep the SSG to chew through hordes with.

MAP01: A decent starter—the change in color scheme is perhaps the most striking. Graham's architecture is also far more orthogonal and normal here, which makes me wonder if that'll continue to keep up through the set. Also lulz at our obligatory chainsaw pinkies segment—some things never change.

[Demon of the Well]

So, now it's time for Crimson Canyon. I don't know/remember this one nearly as well as I do Rylayeh, at least not off the top of my head. I'm sure a lot of it will come back to me as I play, though. Generally speaking, it should be somewhat more thematically varied than Rylayeh was, which should please many. For my part, I hope, presume, and fortunately seem to recall that Graham's liberal monster usage will be in attendance, to provide more gratuitous bloodshed....

Map 01 -- Power Station - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets
...And lo and behold, so it is! 'Power Station' is a quick but violent romp through a more or less traditional military-type techbase setting, complete with a server room, power core, and OSHA-flaunting waste disposal engineering solutions. The level of depiction is mostly Doom-abstract with the sorts of straight lines and cleanly polygonal shapes that one expects in traditional techbase settings, but there are comfortable little forays into more representationalist territory as well, ala the aforementioned 'purposed' rooms, the guard shacks, or the link between one of the outlying genny-stack switches and the emergency barricade blocking entrance to (and exit from) the complex proper telegraphed by a trail of wiring. If the most iconic type of techbase setting is the Phobos base, with the mysterious and vaguely foreboding atmosphere created by its misty sky and sleepy green/grey/brown color scheme, then Psyren's Crimson37 research/archaeological outpost has more of an air of abandonment and disrepair, highlighted by its sunset-aureoled mountains and its use of several dark, dingy custom metal/composite textures alongside the stock brown bricks. Many players today will probably remember UAC Ultra and its signature gritty industrial-tech look and its palette of browns, reds, and blacks; this is a very distinct look, and one we'll be seeing a lot of in this older mapset, as well...one wonders if Crimson Canyon might've been an influence for 40oz and Super Jamie at the time they made their most famed opus.

Action is simple and direct, but fastpaced and bloody. Again, I'm happy to play a map 01 that doesn't feel the need to limit itself to pistol/shotgun and small groups of former humans and imps--the chaingun, combat shotgun, and rocket launcher all debut here (though the latter two are only available in secrets, granted), and there are scads of all three ranks of zombies, a healthy dose of imps, and a few pinkies and even hell knights to use them on. Anyone with a decent grasp of combat fundamentals should do fine here, but the simple volume of possessed/reanimated soldiers and other enemies at play, in combination with a couple of sly deceptions here and there, means that combat is not entirely trivial--zombies need to be mown down as quickly and efficiently as possible in order to minimize gunfire attrition, and it's beneficial to watch out for attacks from the rear. I most like the sequence of traps involved with the blue keycard: first you nearly become demon-chow, so you dash to get your grubby mitts on the chainsaw and make cutlets of them instead, but doing so unleashes another platoon of flybags who promptly start peppering the scene with hot lead, so you blast through the pinkies to charge them instead, which turns loose a throng of imps and more zombies as a climax. Again, none of this is particularly difficult to deal with, but encountering such a rapid killstreak here, and ultimately such a relatively high bodycount over the course of the map as a whole, is a nice tonesetter.

Edit: Oh, by the way, I think the textfile might actually mention this, but just in case it doesn't, the last two maps in the crmsn37.wad are not really part of Crimson Canyon, but are a couple of standalone 1024 maps, which IIRC eventually ended up in the first 1024 community megaWAD.

[Veinen]

Crimson Canyon it is then. Played a bit ahead and noticed that map03 is also featured in Community Chest 2 (Map13: Annihilation Invention). There are some minor differences I believe but it's practically the same thing. Wonder why he decided to include it here, and as a map03 no less instead of a "bonus" map at the end of the wad like those 1024 maps DotW mentions above. He states in the txt-file that it's "based on the map" he made for CC2 but apart from the different textures you can hardly tell the difference.

Map01: Power Station

Yes, it's definitely a map(set) by the same Mr. Graham. The enemy density is once again very high; fortunately as opposed to the first map of Rylayeh, here the enemies are 99% low tier ones and the CG and even the SSG are provided so the pace in the map is fast. I did not find the RL but there's hardly a need for it, other than producing delicious gibs or maybe a quick sweep of the final room. The color scheme an subsequently the theme of the map are obviously completely different but similarities can be drawn between the two mapsets for sure, like the simplistic detailing style for example. One thing that this one does better than the majority of Rylayeh is that it's nowhere close as cramped as that one. Overall this is an enjoyable starter, most certainly more so than the opener of Rylayeh. No signs of the grindyness of Rylayeh so far but we'll see.

[Salt-Man Z]

Rylayeh MAP08: Keen Eyes
A surprisingly-straightforward map. Not much to report here. 100% everything, and Cybie went down easy due to all the infighting that went on while I was cleaning up hitscanners around the central arena. Fun, but largely forgettable.

Rylayeh MAP09: Kthulhu
Starts out in what all "classic Rylayeh style" which is enjoyable enough: largely linear, but with a couple of backtracks and shortcuts. The IoS was a piece of cake, barring having to awkwardly aim the RL around the pillars to hit Kthulhu. Not bad, but the (largely-ineffectual) IoS (though cool looking) kind of spoils the thing.

Rylayeh MAP10: The Return
That's what I'm talking about! This is the closest to pistol-start I'd gotten since MAP01, as I exited MAP09 with 7 health. It's like hitscanner city here, which got maybe a little tiresome, but the nonlinear (and large!) layout impressed. I was expecting more after that huge courtyard battle (which I put off until the end, thanks to that gate I could open and close at will) besides an archie and some nobles, but I won't complain too much. After opening the key doors and wandering around the abandoned city, suddenly realizing where I was came as a bit of a shock. Very cool to have the exit be back at the sub you started out from.

[Salt-Man Z]

RYLAYEH OVERALL:

I'm so glad I joined in for this mapset. (A) I had never heard of it before, and (B) I absolutely loved it. The atmosphere and architecture were incredible, and the gameplay was right up my proverbial alley. MAP02 is the standout for me, though in general I really enjoyed maps 1-5 (barring that lift in MAP03.) Thanks!

[Demon of the Well]

Oh yeah, map 03 also moonlighting in CC2, I forgot all about that. Like Veinen says, the differences are almost entirely cosmetic. The practice of having the same map appear in more than one 'complete package' project probably seems pretty weird to a modern perception (and honestly it was a little odd even at the time Crimson Canyon came out), but it becomes less and less uncommon the farther back you go in PWAD history. Just one of those quirky little zeitgeist things, I guess.

Anyway, to the matter at hand:

Map 02 -- The Forum - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets
After blasting through the glorified generator-shed/guardhouse that was his initial entryway to Crimson37's archaeological research site, the Doomguy of this story finds himself in a part of the asteroid's ancient ruined city. Built almost entirely out of neatly hewn blocks of stone, the decidedly spartan, rational sensibility of the Forum's clean lines, symmetrical superstructuring, and airy open spaces bespeak a society that valued knowledge above all else. The area has weathered the passage of millenia surprisingly well, and the social/practical functions of many of its structures remain readily identifiable--there are libraries, sleeping/living quarters, etc. Most of the actual damage has been done not by time, but by the UAC, which has repurposed the area's waterways as a conduit for the hazardous waste which is a byproduct of its research, leaving the reflecting pool in the Forum proper a poisonous mockery of its former self.

Lots of brown stone and dusky lighting dominate in this one, in a setting comprised of equal parts long corridors, smallish orthogonal rooms, and spacious open areas. In step with map 01, a similar degree of light, unobtrusive representationalism is in evidence (e.g. the cots in the living areas), but filling in the details of the setting is mostly left to the player's imagination. Most of the shapes and lines are very simple/regular, leaving the overall presentation with a clean, if somewhat minimalist/unadorned style. Given the relative simplicity of these areas, fights within them tend to be very direct and guileless as well, although there's enough fundamental structural sophistication to prevent the action from becoming a one-note hallway-a-thon, ala the implementation of height variation via the tightly-knit network of staircases and overlooking windows in the eastern quarter, or the complementary vantages over the central Forum's airspace, which allow fire to be exchanged from one side of the complex to the other.

That being said, I don't think the action here works as well as that in map 01, despite having a similar degree of overall monster density and similar style of monster/thing placement. This is mostly a function of the layout, I think. It's very door-heavy, and much of the play space is thus sectioned off into discrete bitesized bits. The relatively limited scope/scale and peripheral entry point of most rooms in turn requires that monsters be used in smaller groups, and limits their angles of attack and the ways in which they can be deployed, so a plurality of the encounters end up as simple room-clearing affairs, particularly pronounced in the eastern residential quarters. The Forum itself cuts loose a little more with the action, employing a series of simple teleporting monster attacks in its open space, but these are more ceremonial than anything; the greatest danger in the map comes in the form of a couple of sneaky crusher traps (although at least one of them is subtly telegraphed), far more likely to catch you napping than any of the monsters are. I got caught in the second one, myself, but it's not a slow-crusher and thus wasn't automatically lethal despite being very painful, which I assume is true of the earlier instance as well. Other than these two hazards, though, the generally simplistic, smallscale combat setups and very forgiving availability of medikits and the like preclude the presence of any credible danger or pressure, making this one come off as rather dry.

[NuMetalManiak]

Rylayeh = 10 maps:
Crimson Canyon = 12 maps:
Azagthoth = 12 maps:
34 maps total, 30 days in November.

so what's the plan sire? I'll assume we'll get the two 1024 maps on the same day as Crimson Canyon MAP10.

MAP02 The Forum

once again, lots of hitscanner action in this rather linear affair, and mostly using the chaingun to quell these forces. the barracks look a bit weird though. two very asinine secrets exist in this map, one is under a crusher inside of one of the barracks, and the other, you have to press a switch and then backtrack a long way to get a megasphere. the interior arena of the level had some teleport ambushes, showcasing Graham's apparant hitscanner obssession again.

[dobu gabu maru]

Getsu Fune said:

so what's the plan sire? I'll assume we'll get the two 1024 maps on the same day as Crimson Canyon MAP10.

Yup, that's as far as the plan goes. Azagthoth is gonna be squashed in there at the end but there's nothing we can really do about that.

MAP02: Shame hitscan aficionado SteveD isn’t with us, as this kinda gameplay seems right up his alley. I think Crimson Canyon has better enemy placement than Rylayeh thanks to the amount of room you have and higher lean on hitscan traps than HKs in enclosed spaces. I wish that the warp-ins weren’t so agonizingly slow, but at least it was used to a good effect in the giant round acid bath room. Fun stuff at times.

[scifista42]

MAP02 - "The Forum"

I liked this map quite a lot, really I did. An average corridor was at least twice as wide as in Rylayeh. Architecture and aesthetics were good. Coherent style, enjoyable "atmosphere". Gameplay was an easy-ish, but still moderately challenging continual shootage, with minor twists on the way. I liked how the map used (but not overused) crushers, the one in the underground cell actually damaged me heavily and made my day a bit harder. Also, I'd say this map introduced Revenants well: I could hear them screaming all the time, only to encounter 3 of them near the end and deal with them relatively fast (that's okay, as Revenant's power lies purely in player's own failure to dodge).

I felt that overabundance of ammo spoiled this map... But how can I complain, it added to my advantage while playing. Also those teleporting hitscanners in the central area were a wasted potential for a trap. If they spawned on multiple locations around the arena, it could have finally provided some interesting challenge. Instead, they all spawned in one place, and it was trivial to kill them (with a help of their own infighting).

Good map, not exactly outstanding, but I liked it.

[Suitepee]

http://www.twitch.tv/johnsuitepee/c/5485080 = my complete playthrough of Crimson Canyon + its two extra 1024 maps (continuous).

2.5 out of 5 for me. Gameplay was generally a bit better than Rylayeh, but not as difficult and with some awkward Hell Knight/Baron encounters near the end in the tighter maps. Deja vu crept in a lot here. Average mapset overall; not bad, not outstandingly good but enjoyable while it lasted.

Good visuals, some interesting ideas that mostly worked this time, still too many underwhelming set pieces for my liking, hitscan slaughter is still fun and the music was once again good. I liked the switch back into some techbase near the end, a nice change of theme from the expected hellscape until the end stuff. I liked Rylayeh a bit more though.

Azagthoth I will cover in a few days once the Club catches up, I'd like to see something a bit different out of Psyren for his very first map creation.

[mouldy]

MAP01 - "Power Station"

Already this is a lot more visually interesting than the grey world of Rylayeh. Seems more fun to play too, though I can't tell if thats because it feels more like I'm exploring an actual functional place. The fights seem to have a bit more variety than just scattering monsters randomly throughout the map, which is what the previous wad felt like in places. Its still a bit awkward to navigate in some of the cramped rooms. More fun than I was expecting though.

MAP02 - "The Forum"

Enjoyable map, had some cheeky traps going on, and a lot of wandering monsters opening doors and surprising me through windows. I realise now how important it is for maps that are trying to tell a story to look the part. You can get away with fairly pedestrian gameplay if the scenery is engaging enough, though so far this wad is pretty fun to play too. Not particularly strenuous, but has a few surprises here and there.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP02: The Forum
99% kills, 2/3 secrets

Bit of an odd one, this map. Whereas last map felt like it could've been separated across MAP01/MAP02 slots, this one feels like it ends just when it starts getting going (after the 'central' room with the slime pit). Lots of cutesy traps early on, and lack of armor until halfway through means the hitscanners can really hurt if you let your guard down. The brown did get a bit boring after awhile, though.

[Salt-Man Z]

So, checking my save files, it looks like I initially started playing Crimson Canyon back in May, and only played through the first level on HMP. I intended to continue on, so I might as well use the Club as an excuse to do so! This time, however (just to mix things up) I'ma try it on UV.

Crimson Canyon MAP01: Power Station
Not too many surprises this time around, as I still more or less remembered it from back in May. The RL secret had me confounded for the second time, though. ("I can hear the door opening, why can't I find it?") But eventually I figured it out (again) and wound up with 100% everything (again). This time I knew enough to grab the SSG secret before killing all the Hell Knights, which was a plus. Anyway, a very fun map; it actually feels very much like Rylayeh to me, with its narrow corridors and low-tier hordes, and even a ledge-walk over toxic sludge at one point. The wide-open starting area and blue key section were a bit of a departure, though. Still disappointed when I hit the switch that powers on the generators (or whatever) that a bunch of revenants or HKs don't suddenly appear; I tense myself for it every time, but nope.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP03 Acid Base

this is almost exaclty like MAP13 Annihalition Invention from CChest2. pretty much plays similar too. a very nice fun level despite hitscanner quantities. getting the invulnerability in the NW area was one of my goals here. my main complaint this time had to be the teleporting monsters who take forever to get into play (the mancubi at the red key area for instance).

[scifista42]

MAP03 - "Acid Base"

The map structure and visuals were rather good in my view, though I'm not particularly keen on some of those rusted textures (black BRNWALL recolor itself is okay). I've noticed serious balance problems, the map overstocked me with ammo and health resources so much that it was embarrassing. I admit, I failed it in the invulnerability area anyway and let myself killed. Red key room was just a big rocket-launcher-spamming door fight. Many hellknights on their ledges / pillars were entirely skippable. I felt that this map's gameplay could have been done much better. It wasn't bad, though, I have to admit that cautious-less blasting through imps and zombie squads with an SSG was enjoyable for a long time.

So gameplay-wise, this was a little disappointing, but I like how this mapset goes so far, anyway.

[mouldy]

MAP03 - "Acid Base"

Enjoyable and fairly unchallenging map, mostly populated by weaklings and yet with a shitload of rocket ammo laying about. The launcher itself is a secret I guess, though pretty easy to find, so what to do with all those rockets? The answer lies in a couple of rooms where some hefty meat is waiting, the first a surprise manc and hellknight soup (with a few imps for pudding, for whatever reason). I only noticed the invul after the dust settled, it wasn't really needed. The second room is the grand finale I guess, the room is so packed with beef that you can't even get in, so rocketing through the doorway it is then. Ah I nearly forgot the caco ambush, that was quite fun. Quite difficult to die on this map if you play carefully, but a nice little journey all the same.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP03: Acid Base
86% kills, 3/5 secrets

A very standard-ish tech base, but fun. It's certainly very easy - Graham's other maps have already been filled with health, and that continues here, but this one is also filled with ammo as well - I rarely fell below 100 shells and had plenty of rockets, didn't even end up using the plasma gun. Still, with plenty of the enemies being zombieman fodder, it's fun to just rip through the huge swarms. The only room that might be challenging is the soulsphere room, and not-so-hidden invuln in that room de-tooths it quite well. Interesting bit with the key containing the red key (behind the yellow door) - initially it's just got some mancubi in it (which you can see through a window but can't do much about), but grabbing the yellow key teleports in a bunch of revenants/barons, who are happy to start infighting with the mancs.