Post Your Doom Picture (Part 2)

[NaZa]

5 minutes ago, KVELLER said:

 

If they use them incorrectly, maybe. I agree that it's hard to make an interesting encounter with them, but it's certainly not impossible.

Jens Nielsen

[Urthar]

10 minutes ago, Gaia74 said:

i want create my first map, but some tips before i start?

 

• Keep it short and simple.
• Google Doombuilder Tutorials to find out how to build things.
• Include at least one door, teleport, lift, exit, secret, sky and a monster trap in your map.
• Have fun building and testing your map.

For your second and third maps you can start worring about more abstract things like layout, gameplay, visuals, format, etc, etc.

[Aquila Chrysaetos]

26 minutes ago, Gaia74 said:

i want create my first map, but some tips before i start?

 

[Bauul]

33 minutes ago, Gaia74 said:

i want create my first map, but some tips before i start?

 

Slightly controversial opinion, but I'd start by using Doom Builder 2 or (or its more recent fork Doom Builder X).  GZDoomBuilder BugFix is the most fully-featured editor, but the sheer quantity of modes, tools and functions can be overwhelming for new mappers. 

 

Doom Builder 2 is much simpler, and fully supports vanilla or limit-removing mapping as Breezeep suggests.  It allows you to get your head around the basics of Doom mapping (Sectors, Linedefs/Sidedefs, Vertices and Things) without being overwhelmed.  Once you're familiar with those, then you can choose to step up to GZDB_BF if the additional features seem appealing.

[Dragonfly]

 

 

 

Click on the GIF for an MP4 version, if you're into that smoother framerate kind of thing.

[baja blast rd.]

2 hours ago, NaZa said:

Learning Lesson: Symmetry 101 with NaZa. Today - aligning switches with respective computer panels. 10/10 symmetry.

 

 

I had no idea what you were referring to at first. It looks totally fine. The scene is well balanced around the switches anyway: door to the left, panel center, panel right, all taking up a similar amount of space, horizontally and vertically. 

 

(edit: also off-center rather than asymmetrical is a clearer way to describe it.) 

Edited August 7, 2018 by rdwpa

[NaZa]

Yes, I was hinting at the panels being off-center when looking at the switches. I just didn't know how to word it. Also, it's great if it doesn't make the area feel unbalanced :D

[durian]

On 8/6/2018 at 1:17 AM, Eris Falling said:

Not sure if this is something done often, but I'm doing some light transfer work (Boom) and figured this was a simple way of doing things - it's basically a light transfer palette, 2 rows of 17 sectors - one per row for each brightness level.

The top row handles ceilings, the bottom does floors. The top lines along each row have a general tag range which is used for normal scenarios: otherwise untagged sectors that only require either a ceiling or floor transfer. The bottom lines are for exceptions: i.e the sector requires its own tag, or like I'm currently needing, floor and ceiling transfers.

 

Safe to say one of the ZDoom/UDMF features I miss most is being able to have individual lighting on different parts of a sidedef :)

 

Very neat. Here's the sort of thing I've used:

 

Spoiler

 

Floors on the x, ceilings on the y, then co-ordinates in the middle for floor/ceiling combos. I've tried a more economical approach, with fewer sectors and more tagged lines per sector, but in the end I found this sort of thing made it easier to keep track of everything.

[Bridgeburner56]

5 hours ago, Empyre said:

@Aquila Chrysaetos Make back-up copies of your wad. Right-drag-and-drop and select Copy Here. Do it once a day, and also when you just made a major change you don't want to lose and/or when you are about to make a change you are not sure about. If this crash happens again, you won't lose as much. If you make the copies on another drive, that's even better.

This. I had a scare when my graphics card imploded as I had no idea why my comp had died. I have an online back up as well on google drive in case of a scale demonic incursion of my hard drive. But at the very least having another copy saved will prevent the file being corrupted mid save.

2 hours ago, Gaia74 said:

i want create my first map, but some tips before i start?

Do some sketches of your map layout first. I find this helps with creative flow as you're not stuck there thinking "I wonder what happens next". You can still deviate from your plan but having a rough idea of the map sequence, where you want to put keys/key doors, big monster traps etc helps to prevent mapper's block.

One thing I like to do is have aesthetic theme or at least an overall colour scheme. This helps me with texture selection quite a bit (I have 10000 textures currently from a variety of sources. I will be culling a lot of them but haven't got around to it yet). If you're building a gothic castle then you'll probably use lots of black stone and stained glass window textures so if make this decision before you start making a map then you can save a lot of time trawling through your textures trying to figure out which one to use.

[Xyzzу]

[cambreaKer]

work in progress computer area (the screens are scrolling)

 

Edited August 7, 2018 by cambreaKer

[Gaia74]

the commands of kaiser

[leodoom85]

I....uh....I made a serious mistake of trying to bring the baddest, ultimate demon of all universes....

But seriously, that's what happen if you use a lot of 3D transparent sloped sectors (I used 4 of them) combined with the power of bloom. Pretty crazy eh?

[seed]

I like what they did with the levels from TNT, I think it's an improvement over the originals.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[A.Gamma]

Fuck me for trying to do natural enviroments in the Doom Engine

 

At least I've succeeded (I think).

 

[Jimmy]

I want to live there.

 

So yes, you did.

[scifista42]

15 hours ago, Bauul said:

Slightly controversial opinion, but I'd start by using Doom Builder 2 or (or its more recent fork Doom Builder X) [for being less "overwhelming" than GZDB]

 

If I wanted to make the same point as you, I'd just say Doom Builder X.

Edited August 8, 2018 by scifista42

[AL-97]

37 minutes ago, A.Gamma said:

Fuck me for trying to do natural enviroments in the Doom Engine

Breaking away from the monotony of tech bases, or lost and forgotten temples in case of Heretic, is always a welcoming change. I think your screens look pretty damn cool!

[Memfis]

39 minutes ago, A.Gamma said:

This is subjective but I think waterfalls should usually be a little lower than surrounding rocks. That way they give an impression that there is a river.

[elend]

Those outdoor environments are a resounding succes, I would say. Looks great and very natural. Please finish this asap, kthxinadvance.

[StormCatcher.77]

My Infernew submission:

 

Spoiler

 

Edited August 8, 2018 by StormCatcher.77

[franckFRAG]

3 hours ago, Memfis said:

This is subjective but I think waterfalls should usually be a little lower than surrounding rocks. That way they give an impression that there is a river.

 

Maybe there is a secret behind the waterfalls.

[Tristan]

4 hours ago, Agent6 said:

I like what they did with the levels from TNT, I think it's an improvement over the originals.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I've said for years that TNT + PSX was like the perfect pairing. It cut the crap and blended perfectly with what was left. Same goes for the master levels really, a lot of my favourite maps as a kid came from Final Doom (Lunar Mining Project, Deepest Reaches, Geryon, Subspace, Paradox...)

[MTF Sergeant]

 

Here we go, all over again!

[Aquila Chrysaetos]

Spoiler: the pinky won.

I think the fatso got stuck on the pinky that was attacking it.

[seed]

14 hours ago, Eris Falling said:

Yeah, I've said for years that TNT + PSX was like the perfect pairing. It cut the crap and blended perfectly with what was left. Same goes for the master levels really, a lot of my favourite maps as a kid came from Final Doom (Lunar Mining Project, Deepest Reaches, Geryon, Subspace, Paradox...)

 

Indeed, it's a really good (and wise) decision that they got rid of the atrocious and average/below average levels from the original, not to mention that they look better than they did in the original.

 

I'll have to check again the real PSX Doom however, because I did not see a damn Mancubus or Cybie in the entire TNT, are they not present in Final Doom at all?  They're not present in the first map of Plutonia either, there's Revenants in their place.

 

Also, now that the TNT, Doom, Doom 2 part is finished, the most noticeable difference (gameplay wise) is the lower difficulty. Doom 2 seemed to be mostly the same overall, but E4M1 and E4M2 are much easier since the stronger enemies are replaced with weaker ones, such as HKs instead of Barons as well as the Cyberdemon on the latter.

 

Either way, PSX Doom is easier than the original. That doesn't bother me much, although I had to occasionally avoid using weapons not found in the current level because it would've otherwise been too easy. I've died only a few times, and when I did it was simply due to not remembering the map or being unaware of what changes were done to it, otherwise I think it'd be pretty difficult to die in the games. I imagine things would look pretty different with a controller though, but with a mouse and keyboard, it's easy.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Agent6

[Tristan]

Are you playing on UV? Nessus has mancubi, though I'm not sure about the lower skills. Now you mention it I can't think of any other times they show up in Final Doom, but it's been a long time.

 

Cyberdemon, spoilered just in case

Spoiler

Onslaught (originally Plutonia MAP10) is the last map of the PSX version, and there's one there - originally this was a co-op cyberdemon but they added it as a final boss of sorts. This is the only Cyberdemon in FD and the mastermind is missing entirely.

 

And yes, mouse and keyboard makes PSX Doom trivial unfortunately - last time I played it like that I vowed I would try keyboard-only next time. The control scheme had it so your forward/backward and turn movements were all done with the left thumb - as a result, revenants could actually still be pretty nasty despite their huge nerfing, which naturally makes quite the difference in PSX Doom :) Movement puzzles were also sometimes daunting, the most notorious example being that last run in Tricks and Traps, I used to fall a lot there and without a proper save function it meant having to do the level all over again.

 

By default, triangle was shoot but fortunately controls were configurable so I could change it to X. Not only was this in line with basically every other PS1 shooter, it also allowed to shoot and run at the same time with a right thumb position that wasn't ridiculous like it would have been with triangle :P

Edited August 8, 2018 by Eris Falling

[seed]

11 hours ago, Eris Falling said:

Are you playing on UV? Nessus has mancubi, though I'm not sure about the lower skills. Now you mention it I can't think of any other times they show up in Final Doom, but it's been a long time.

 

Cyberdemon, spoilered just in case

  Hide contents

Onslaught (originally Plutonia MAP10) is the last map of the PSX version, and there's one there - originally this was a co-op cyberdemon but they added it as a final boss of sorts. This is the only Cyberdemon in FD and the mastermind is missing entirely.

 

And yes, mouse and keyboard makes PSX Doom trivial unfortunately - last time I played it like that I vowed I would try keyboard-only next time. The control scheme had it so your forward/backward and turn movements were all done with the left thumb - as a result, revenants could actually still be pretty nasty despite their huge nerfing, which naturally makes quite the difference in PSX Doom :) Movement puzzles were also sometimes daunting, the most notorious example being that last run in Tricks and Traps, I used to fall a lot there and without a proper save function it meant having to do the level all over again.

 

By default, triangle was shoot but fortunately controls were configurable so I could change it to X. Not only was this in line with basically every other PS1 shooter, it also allowed to shoot and run at the same time with a right thumb position that wasn't ridiculous like it would have been with triangle :P

 

Yep, UV, very difficult megawads or those targetted primarily at veterans/highly skilled players are the only instance when I lower the difficulty. As a matter of fact, I've no idea how the IWADs (both the console version, including Doom 64, and the original PC ones) look on anything other than UV, never bothered to check :v .

 

Well, unless there are Mancubi hidden in secrets or unreachable areas I've missed or something in the TC TNT I'm 100% I did not see a single one. Their replacement with Revenants so far is kind of a mixed bag considering their slow movement and rockets.

 

So the MM was replaced with a Cybie in that level. Well at least they aren't missing completely since those encountered in the original PC TNT were glaringly absent. I wonder why the MM could not be added in FD. I mean, I've read that the reason it's absent was limitations of the console but they were very much present at the end of Doom 2 in the exclusive level that acted as a conclusion, and that game features all enemies save for the Arch-Vile who was cut for similar reasons. They could've done something similar in this case me thinks.

 

I suppose I was right in my mind in that case. It did cross my mind a few times that the reason why it's easier is perhaps simply due to being a console title since FPS titles are generally much more difficult with a controller than a mouse + keyboard configuration so some nerfing might've been necessary, especially in FD. Despite this, I found Ultimate Doom and Doom 2 (with just a few exceptions) to be pretty close to the original PC versions in terms of difficulty. In certain cases I've noticed they used the lightning to make your life more difficult, I clearly remember an area in the final level of PSX TNT that does just that. Just a few Imps and Revenants here and there but the simple fact that the light in the area flashes very slow can make your day suck when it's pitch black, good luck shooting randomly :v .

Edited August 9, 2018 by Agent6

[Novaseer]

On 8/7/2018 at 5:08 PM, Empyre said:

@Aquila Chrysaetos Make back-up copies of your wad. Right-drag-and-drop and select Copy Here. Do it once a day, and also when you just made a major change you don't want to lose and/or when you are about to make a change you are not sure about. If this crash happens again, you won't lose as much. If you make the copies on another drive, that's even better.

Not to mention that some editors, such as Slade 3, auto-generate backups so you don't lose everything when you lose everything.

[Tristan]

@Agent6 Hm sounds like you haven't played the Master Levels set yet (in the real thing they came first, occupying the first 13 maps - TNT was levels 14-24, Plutonia was 25-30). edit: Nessus is the ninth level in the master levels episode so that's why I bring it up. I think the mastermind is technically present but the PSX was limited by how many types of monster you could have on a single map, due to memory limitations, and the mastermind's huge sprite meant that they would use up most of the available memory which is why there's only one other monster type (Barons) in Redemption Denied.

As we found out when making The Lost Levels for the TC, revenants were also quite greedy with resources, so once you used them you didn't have as much room for other monster types as you'd like, especially other big users like the mancubus, and well..this is Final Doom :(

 

While it was potentially not 100% accurate I guess, as a guideline for the LL conversions, Nuxius made a points system for this:

Spoiler

On 11/28/2012 at 12:08 AM, Dragonsbrethren said:

Nuxius posted a handy monster value chart in his post about PSX limitations:

 

Quote

Demon/Spectre/Nightmare Spectre - 4 points
Imp - 2.5 points
Trooper - 2 points
Sergeant - 2 points
Chaingunner - 3.5 points
Lost Soul - 1 point
Cacodemon - 3 points
Pain Elemental - 3.5 points
Arachnotron - 6 points
Hell Knight - 4 points
Baron of Hell - 4 points
Revenant - 8 points
Mancubus - 6.5 points
Cyberdemon - 12 points
Spiderdemon - 22 points

Don't exceed more than 26 points in your map. If you have a large number of detail sprites, you might want to drop your total lower.

 

 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Eris Falling