Strife: Veteran Edition

[Vermil]

Well, finished both endings and I have to say that Strife is better than I remembered it (it's been a while since I've played it and the last times were in ZDoom).

Only thing I have to add to my previous engine nitpicks in the news thread is that projectile autoaim appeared wonky with either sharp angles or high areas (I didn't do tests to narrow down). I know no Doom port has been perfectly able to nail 3d handling of projectiles yet, but in Strife VE, my projectiles were autoaimming quite a way off.

It was all perfectly stable and performing.

[Blastfrog]

Linguica said:

Was the artwork really touched up? I'd like to see some before/after comparisons of assets.

Sure, here you go: http://imgur.com/a/PSBtk

The former of each set is the new version while the latter is from the original 1996 release. There's far, far more art that's been subtly touched up, but this small sample should give you an idea of the general approach to the tweaks. The ones I uploaded are some of the most noticeably different ones. The most liberty they took was making some characters less pale and outright replacing bad textures like the liquids (I'm pretty sure no other textures were replaced, just tweaked). Other than that, it was mostly smoothing aliased edges and removing bad artifacts.

[BaronOfStuff]

Vermil said:

projectile autoaim appeared wonky with either sharp angles or high areas

Seconded; I keep trying to use the Mini-Missile Launcher against enemies high up or on the ceiling and can only watch as my missiles soar off into the distance at an entirely wrong pitch.

[Gez]

Is there any estimate for when it gets out on GOG?

[Quasar]

Sodaholic said:

Sure, here you go: http://imgur.com/a/PSBtk

The former of each set is the new version while the latter is from the original 1996 release. There's far, far more art that's been subtly touched up, but this small sample should give you an idea of the general approach to the tweaks. The ones I uploaded are some of the most noticeably different ones. The most liberty they took was making some characters less pale and outright replacing bad textures like the liquids (I'm pretty sure no other textures were replaced, just tweaked). Other than that, it was mostly smoothing aliased edges and removing bad artifacts.

The main gray bricks texture was heavily tweaked by ptoing. I'm still not sure I personally like the results on that one though, and particularly when linear filtering is enabled - I don't use it, but just about everyone putting up youtube videos of the game is.

[Blastfrog]

Quasar said:

The main gray bricks texture was heavily tweaked by ptoing. I'm still not sure I personally like the results on that one though, and particularly when linear filtering is enabled - I don't use it, but just about everyone putting up youtube videos of the game is.

Ah, you're right about that. I think the new version is a lot cleaner and that the original is kinda ugly, but I don't like how much flatter and darker it looks compared to the original. It should have its contrast increased a bit.

Are you guys willing to update the contents of SVE.WAD or will the only patches be engine-side? If submissions from the public are acceptable, I'd like to try fixing up the two new explosion frames for the sewer bots as it has some pretty bad nearest-scaled artifacts.

Lastly, it appears that your team neglected to fix the BNG2 sprites. It seems the original devs created it in a lower resolution on a black background and scaled it up with filtering, but neglected to crop the jagged edges.

[Quasar]

Sodaholic said:

Ah, you're right about that. I think the new version is a lot cleaner and that the original is kinda ugly, but I don't like how much flatter and darker it looks compared to the original. It should have its contrast increased a bit.

Are you guys willing to update the contents of SVE.WAD or will the only patches be engine-side? If submissions from the public are acceptable, I'd like to try fixing up the two new explosion frames for the sewer bots as it has some pretty bad nearest-scaled artifacts.

Lastly, it appears that your team neglected to fix the BNG2 sprites. It seems the original devs created it in a lower resolution on a black background and scaled it up with filtering, but neglected to crop the jagged edges.

We had four months to do this on minimal budget. Future updates are going to be limited, as our contracts have run their course already.

[theleo_ua]

chungy said:

https://imgur.com/a/BoRM5

I kind of don't like them being animated GIFs but I didn't make it :P

And now lets compare Veteran with GZDoom:

Veteran1: https://i.imgur.com/adISTb1.gif
GZDoom1: http://i038.radikal.ru/1412/29/2328cd560bda.png

Veteran2: https://i.imgur.com/IhRiGJ5.gif
GZDoom2: http://s018.radikal.ru/i500/1412/38/e2d18e636f82.png

Veteran3: https://i.imgur.com/9J2PJwP.gif
GZDoom3: http://s019.radikal.ru/i628/1412/e8/b5812d406abb.png

Veteran4: https://i.imgur.com/6cPFDBS.gif
GZDoom4: http://s018.radikal.ru/i500/1412/3a/f2b395093890.png

And now - let me show you the main difference: http://s020.radikal.ru/i720/1412/a9/cd5d839c45a7.png

I think Quasar and Kaiser should implement HQ4x and 16xAA like in GZDoom, and with additional features of Veteran it will own the world

Also I think GZDoom-like HUD is nice to have too:) A lot of differences between GZdoom's and Veteran's alternative HUDs

P.S. Yes, I forgot about mauler and assault gun (and also items, stardard HUD etc) in my GZscreenshots, but I can make additional ones for you if necessary (so tell me in this case)

[Linguica]

Oh right, I could just compare the graphics in strife1.wad and SVE.wad, duh.

Quasar said:

The main gray bricks texture was heavily tweaked by ptoing. I'm still not sure I personally like the results on that one though, and particularly when linear filtering is enabled - I don't use it, but just about everyone putting up youtube videos of the game is.

This?

[fraggle]

Quasar said:

We had four months to do this on minimal budget.

I have to say that I was really impressed at how much you managed to get done. Obviously I knew this was in the pipeline but was expecting it to just be a straight packaging of Chocolate Strife with a few minor enhancements. Instead we've been treated to this full remastering of the game. It's amazing how much you've managed to get done.

I think in the end this just shows that Night Dive absolutely did the right thing in hiring people who are enthusiastic about the game. They could have just got some in-house programmers to do this, but getting you guys to do it - after you'd already worked together doing Chocolate Strife - was a brilliant move.

[esselfortium]

theleo_ua said:

I think Quasar and Kaiser should implement HQ4x and 16xAA like in GZDoom, and with additional features of Veteran it will own the world

HQ4X and similar filters are pretty ill-suited to Doom-resolution graphics, as they actually smudge out and remove detail from the original artwork. Leaving them out is perfectly sensible IMO.

[Linguica]

I don't understand some people's insistence on filtering graphics that were never intended to be filtered. Oh I have these nice hand-tuned pixel graphics, lemme smear the hell out of them for no reason other than MORE MODERN!!!!

[Blastfrog]

If going for any kind of filter, XBR is better than HQX. It seems most people aren't aware of its existence and continue implementing the outdated and inferior HQX algorithm.

Of course, filters suck in general, but I really would like to see more awareness about less terrible looking algorithms.

There's also this vectorization method that is not as bad as the rasterized methods out there: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/kopf/pixelart/

[Vermil]

esselfortium said:

HQ4X and similar filters are pretty ill-suited to Doom-resolution graphics, as they actually smudge out and remove detail from the original artwork. Leaving them out is perfectly sensible IMO.

It depends on the base renderer, art style, how well the filter has been specially tailored to the artwork (etc, etc), as much as the resolution of the artwork.

[Graf Zahl]

Sodaholic said:

If going for any kind of filter, XBR is better than HQX. It seems most people aren't aware of its existence and continue implementing the outdated and inferior HQX algorithm.

That filter is licensed under the GPL - at least it was when it was last suggested for GZDoom. Needless to say, that makes it a no-go.

[kmxexii]

Linguica said:

I don't understand some people's insistence on filtering graphics that were never intended to be filtered. Oh I have these nice hand-tuned pixel graphics, lemme smear the hell out of them for no reason other than MORE MODERN!!!!

[Xaser]

Pretend I'm requoting the above quote. :P

Also worth fake-requoting what fraggle said too; this port is exceptionally well-done, has some kickass new content, and doesn't muck with the existing resources (BFG doom2.wad D:). Super-props!

Also, the ability to PUNCH OUT INQUISITORS is the best damned addition to the game. :D

[Devalaous]

Linguica said:

I don't understand some people's insistence on filtering graphics that were never intended to be filtered. Oh I have these nice hand-tuned pixel graphics, lemme smear the hell out of them for no reason other than MORE MODERN!!!!

I hate it how this smearing is the default in GZDoom. Thankfully, Strife VE has the blurring off by default :}

[Gez]

The hqx filters are most certainly not on by default in GZDoom.

[Devalaous]

They always were for me. GZDoom always defaulted to blurry crap that I always turned off ASAP.

[Da Werecat]

Bilinear filtering is not the same as HQX filters.

[fraggle]

Ragnor said:

Thankfully, Strife VE has the blurring off by default :}

Really? For me it's always using linear filtering and I don't seem to be able to turn it off. Maybe it's because I'm using the Mac version.

[Linguica]

I just tried on Mac too and yeah, turning filtering off has no effect.

[Janus3003]

You know what? I'm just going to come out and say it. Blackbird is my new video game crush.

[Linguica]

Janus3003 said:

You know what? I'm just going to come out and say it. Blackbird is my new video game crush.

Shana-chan~~~

[Blastfrog]

Janus3003 said:

You know what? I'm just going to come out and say it. Blackbird is my new video game crush.

Nah, she's absurdly proportioned and has a generic "bad girl" personality while only serving as a hint-giver on behalf of the developers. If you want to talk about attractive female characters in games, I think Alyx Vance from Half-Life 2 is a lot more appealing. Physically, she's a slim human being, not a plastic barbie doll. She's friendly and caring, but is also strong, not being afraid to face danger and injustice. That, and she's pretty good at mechanics and software.

But then again this is all pointless and irrelevant, so uh yeah

[Blzut3]

Janus3003 said:

You know what? I'm just going to come out and say it. Blackbird is my new video game crush.

Speaking of which, all the retouched art and yet she still looks like she has a man's Adam's apple. :P

[Avoozl]

Sodaholic said:

I think Alyx Vance from Half-Life 2 is a lot more appealing.

I've never really cared for that character at all, I can't understand why people like her so much.

[Quasar]

Blzut3 said:

Speaking of which, all the retouched art and yet she still looks like she has a man's Adam's apple. :P

You know it's just unfortunate positioning of her hair that gives that impression, right? :P

[VGA]

Well, something is fucked with the frame interpolation(?)

I noticed that strafing around and looking around at the same time isn't smooth like in gzdoom. Using the default settings btw, so vsync is on.

Winx64, nvidia gtx260

Also, isn't the enabled jump a sequence breaker. dafuq?