What's your use of the -Hidden tag? [LINEDEFS]

[Guest Unregistered account]

Hi, all! I've been meaning to make this thread for a while. What's your ideal and favourite uses of the -Hidden tag? I mostly use it for linedefs that are for skies, or for areas outside of the map. Because when I do this kind of thing, I like to think of what someone who didn't know how a Doom level works would think if they used the Automap and saw weird formations against a wall, maybe even on a Vanilla sky horizon; the illusion would be broken. I know some mappers use this, like Jimmy. [Random example]

Spoiler

[Screenshot of my fail level submitted to Battle of the Bits' Doom II competition.]

Other areas I use the -Hidden tag in are "gutters" - lowered sectors with liquids flowing in/out of them to give you the idea that the nukage/etc. you face is actually coming from somewhere. This is easily displayed right at the start in E1M5: Phobos Lab. In Doom, it seemed they were very particular about this:

Spoiler

Sure enough, the end of the gutter is hidden. But then, look what they did in Doom II!

Spoiler

Heh. All very OCD, but what are your thoughts and uses of the -Hidden tag?

[Obsidian]

I tend to do the gutter one myself. I also pop it on sectors where the sky meets the floor so it doesn't look weird: you usually can't get to those areas and it makes sense for there to be no indication of the lines.

[scifista42]

I use the "hidden" flag for dummy sectors outside the map, sometimes on linedefs that only make the sky (and as Obsidian said), and occasionally I bother to hide various linedefs in the scenery or decorative linedefs not important for gameplay (they would be misleading if they appeared on automap).

[Linguica]

I noticed while playing BTSXE1 that all of the levels had liberal use of hidden linedefs on basically all detailing to make the automaps look much cleaner, I was pretty impressed by it.

[Dave The Daring]

I use this particular flag for all the reasons given thus far, even though it is an incredibly tedious process. I should probably apply the flag as I'm actually making the map, rather than doing it all in one go at the end, but I'm just not that sensible.

[Memfis]

I HIDE THE WHOLE MAP

[Stupid Bunny]

I like to use it for many of the same reasons you do. Sky areas area always hidden, as are any boundaries which are meant to create the impression of endlessness. In this vein, I often use the tag for scenery outside of the playable area, partly to reduce clutter and partly to obscure where and how far away it actually is. Same goes for gutters, and dummy sectors are always hidden in case I decide to include an automap. Occasionally I'll also make a secret tunnel "hidden" so that no sign of it can be found on the automap, only by very careful observation of the level itself. The idea of hiding all detail sectors to improve map clarity is a good one, but I don't think most of my maps are detail-intensive enough to make that worthwhile.

[Chris Hansen]

Monster closets and sometimes traps of various sorts.

[scifista42]

Linguica said:

I noticed while playing BTSXE1 that all of the levels had liberal use of hidden linedefs on basically all detailing to make the automaps look much cleaner, I was pretty impressed by it.

GIF

Yes, BTSX guys have put a lot of effort to it. But looking at the picture (BTSX E1 MAP15), even Mechadon's sign is marked hidden! Really? :)

[kb1]

Memfis said:

I HIDE THE WHOLE MAP

Heh, I have a setting in my port that ignores the hidden flag, just for defeating "map hiders".

[Doomkid]

I try to remember to make all the decorative / sky sector / etc linedefs hidden, but I usually forget to.

I only recently started using the 'secret' linedef tag which makes hidden doors blend in on the automap. I never knew that's what it did, I always assumed it triggered a secret effect like it's sector based counterpart, but nope!

[Guest Unregistered account]

Doomkid said:

I try to remember to make all the decorative / sky sector / etc linedefs hidden, but I usually forget to.

Same here. :P

Doomkid also said:

I only recently started using the 'secret' linedef tag which makes hidden doors blend in on the automap. I never knew that's what it did, I always assumed it triggered a secret effect like it's sector based counterpart, but nope!

Woah, I never knew this! I always just assumed it stopped you from grunting whenever you "use" the wall (which it does). Thanks!

[Doomkid]

Joe667 said:

it stopped you from grunting whenever you "use" the wall

And I never realized this - Learn something new about Doom every day, even after all these years!

[Dragonsbrethren]

I usually hide any geometry outside the playing area (the skies, gutters, etc. already mentioned) and details if they're cluttering the automap, like Ling's BTSX example. I secret flag the border of the playable space when there's a height change the player can't cross.

(The secret flag also stops monsters from opening type 1 doors, btw)

[Gez]

kb1 said:

Heh, I have a setting in my port that ignores the hidden flag, just for defeating "map hiders".

In ZDoom, you can set this feature to a percentage.

[Stupid Bunny]

Dragonsbrethren said:

(The secret flag also stops monsters from opening type 1 doors, btw)

We could devote a whole thread to "Things about the Secret flag I just found out". Is there anything that tag can't do?

[Dave The Daring]

StupidBunny said:

Is there anything that tag can't do?

It can't read my mind and apply itself automatically to the relevant linedefs, meaning I have to do it myself. Tedious.

And yes, I know I'm a lazy sod.

[kb1]

Gez said:

In ZDoom, you can set this feature to a percentage.

Ah, that's clever. Any idea what a good default percentage would be? I don't mind cheating if it's necessary, but only then. I'd like a setting that catches the "abuses", but doesn't false trigger.