John Romero is publishing previously unreleased textures for the community on twitter

[kb1]

Holy shit, this is the best Christmas present ever! That's it - I have make a decision to get off my lazy ass, and get back to working on Doom after about a 2 year break.

Thanks, John! You are the real rock star of id!

[PRIMEVAL]

I don't browse Doomworld for one day...

[Xaser]

Whew, hopefully this is the last basically-double-post I'll make on this, but I've updated 1993res.wad with the player/zombie rotations and started a new thread for it:

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/71131-1993res-wad/

[Avoozl]

So it turns out the background art for Doom 1's intermission screens were from sketches and not real life photos edited as I recall some people saying long ago, also it looks like the BFG9000 was at one stage going to shoot out thousands of multicoloured balls.

[Dragonsbrethren]

Avoozl said:

[...]also it looks like the BFG9000 was at one stage going to shoot out thousands of multicoloured balls.

40 -- John was exaggerating a bit :)

[Technician]

Do you think John has more rotations for other monsters or do you figure they stopped making the extra frames by that time.

[Da Werecat]

A lot of the monsters are symmetrical, so I don't see a point.

[Technician]

Yeah, only the Cyberdemon is non symmetrical now that I think about it. Maybe id took that into consideration when making the monsters.

[kb1]

You know, I am quite appreciative of what he's done, and, man, I would hate to ask John: "Just give us all of it..." like a crack ho, but, yeah :)

Early versions of pinky, revenant, anything...
weapons, hud
alpha wads/exes
sketches
high-res sounds for PK
early source??

I find all of it fascinating. But, for now, I'll be breaking out the sprite rotations.

[NaturalTvventy]

This is better than sex.

Holy shit. Them new ickwalls. Mind. Blown.

[BaronOfStuff]

Technician said:

Do you think John has more rotations for other monsters or do you figure they stopped making the extra frames by that time.

The only one I can think of would be the Imp's attack frames. Whether or not these exist though is still unknown!

[Revenant100]

BaronOfStuff said:

The only one I can think of would be the Imp's attack frames. Whether or not these exist though is still unknown!

The non-mirrored Imp attack frames can be found in the 0.5 alpha. This suggests that non-mirrored pain frames for the Imp may exist as this is technically a non-symmetrical pose and they seemingly went to the trouble of drawing full 8-sided frames for the attack state.

[Gez]

Technician said:

Yeah, only the Cyberdemon is non symmetrical now that I think about it. Maybe id took that into consideration when making the monsters.

Barons/knights and imps attack with their right hand. The pain animation is also asymmetrical.

For the Hell nobles, no problem with attack and pain rotations. Imps get mirrored though.

There's a slight asymmetry in the mancubus attack (right arm-cannon is raised higher than the left), but it's not pronounced enough to make the mirroring really noticeable. Its pain animation is fully rotated.

Revenants have full rotations.

Cacodemon is entirely symmetrical. Pain elemental as well, but its pain animation isn't, and it's mirrored.

Lost soul is symmetrical except for flickering flames. Its pain animation, though, is asymmetrical and mirrored.

The spiderdemon also has a slight asymmetry in its attack (leaning a bit to its right) but that's subtle enough to make the mirroring unnoticeable. Pain animation has full rotations. Same deal for the arachnotron.

Arch-vile is fully rotated.

Pinky demons/spectres have full rotations for attack and pain. However, they share with the baron (but not the knight) the issue that their walk animation is mirrored instead of being fully rotated, despite all the needed sprites being there. This can be solved by naming the sprites A1C1, A2C8, A3C7, A4C6, A5C5, B1D1, etc. (If you compare a mirrored A1 frame to a C1 frame, you'll notice it's the same graphic. That's why the setup I explain is better than A2A8, etc. The Hell knight is already setup this way.)


Any monster I forgot? The Wolf SS has full rotations for its walk cycle, but no rotation at all for attack and pain. Commander Keen and barrels have no rotations at all. :p

Really, all that could be needed for having full rotations for everyone is the pain elemental and lost soul's pain animations and maybe the mancubus' attack animation. Everything else is not already there or not needed.

[Blzut3]

Gez said:

Pinky demons/spectres have full rotations for attack and pain. However, they share with the baron (but not the knight) the issue that their walk animation is mirrored instead of being fully rotated, despite all the needed sprites being there. This can be solved by naming the sprites A1C1, A2C8, A3C7, A4C6, A5C5, B1D1, etc. (If you compare a mirrored A1 frame to a C1 frame, you'll notice it's the same graphic. That's why the setup I explain is better than A2A8, etc. The Hell knight is already setup this way.)

For the Pinky there are actually some early sprites where A->C and B->D are not perfect mirrors (at least on some of the angles). The Doom 0.2 alpha for example.

[Revenant100]

There are actually some errors with the full 8-sided monster rotations in Doom 2. The Mancubus's pain FATTJ6, FATTJ7, and FATTJ8 frames are not proper rotations and are actually just mirrored versions of the corresponding 2-4 angles. The Revenant's firing SKELK6 and SKELK7 frames are not proper rotations and are actually just mirrored versions of the corresponding 3-4 angles. However, SKELK8 is a proper rotation frame, bizarrely enough.

[Guest Unregistered account]

Also I remember reading something about some of the Archvile's walking frames being mirrored.

[scifista42]

Joe667 said:

Also I remember reading something about some of the Archvile's walking frames being mirrored.

Yes, his ABC frames (=moving his right leg, leaning to left) are mirrored with his DEF frames (=moving his left leg, leaning to right). Obviously, these frames were supposed to be symmetrical to look like natural walking, therefore there is no problem at all. :P

Revenant, Hell Knight and maybe other monsters have it the same way too. But this is not the kind of assymetrical mirroring Gez was explaining.

[Blastfrog]

I don't think id ever even bothered to make full 8 rotations for some frames they knew would basically be symmetrical, despite full angles being present in the alphas. Look at the imp's walking frames in the 0.4 alpha, the remaining 3 angles are actually pre-flipped versions of the other side, which is a silly waste of space given the engine-side flipping.

They did at least take proper animation into consideration during this phase of redundant angles, as the animation sequence has their steps swapped (so it's CDAB instead of ABCD).

The ideal solution is to just do what they did with the Hell Knight, i.e. keep only the needed frames while naming them stuff like TROOA2C8 instead of TROOA2C2.

[Marnetmar]

Anyone wanna help me out with this while he's at it?

[Dragonsbrethren]

kb1 said:

You know, I am quite appreciative of what he's done, and, man, I would hate to ask John: "Just give us all of it..." like a crack ho, but, yeah :)

I would love to get ahold of WIP versions of the Doom 2 maps, if they kept backups. It's great seeing how the Doom 1 maps changed over time in the alphas, but outside of Refueling Base, all we have for Doom 2 are a couple screenshots and video. For that matter, we're missing a lot of the Doom 1 maps, too.

Marnetmar said:

Anyone wanna help me out with this while he's at it?

Quasar alluded that there's a chance of this happening. Not going to get my hopes up, but I'd love to see it released.

[Koko Ricky]

I gotta say that the unused textures and sprites will add a lot of variety to mapping once some Clever Trevor compiles them into a resource WAD. I'm very excited about them, nearly all of them are great! I just wish there were more unused hell elements.

[Technician]

What benefit would DoomED provide our current mapping tools? Or is it just for posterity?

[Koko Ricky]

Probably the latter, I can't imagine it having any advantages over DoomBuilder 2.

[Marnetmar]

Didn't Romero say he had the entire Doom dev directory on a floppy disk or something?

[Gez]

Technician said:

What benefit would DoomED provide our current mapping tools? Or is it just for posterity?

Posterity, and perhaps a "Doom the Way id Actually Did" community project! :p

[Maes]

And next, a DOS source code release to make "Doom The Way id Should Have Made It". In case Boom doesn't fill that niche for you.

[Linguica]

And then "Doom The Way id Didn't" with an engine programmed by Romero and gameplay designed by Carmack

[Koko Ricky]

I suppose the thing to do now is to wait for someone to compile a WAD that features all the new textures and sprites.

[kb1]

Thing about the textures: What we have are new patches. Sure, they can just be defined as textures, but, if they had been added to the released Doom, they would be used as patches. Like the pipe images, for example.

When making this resource wad, the pipes could be added on top of various existing and new patches to make textures "the id way". Not that it's a requirement, or anything, but id would have surely done it, and it would increase the number of usable walls. And, yes, the alpahs and betas should be included in that list.

The point I'm getting at is that, it would be really cool if this resource wad was versatile enough to be called The Doom add-on Resource wad. People would publish their maps with the instructions: Requires the Doom add-on resource wad to play.

Maybe a community project: Build the Doom add-on resource wad?

[scalliano]

Sounds about right. Thing is, I know squat about TEXTURES lumps.