Ultimate Doom “In Name Only” - [Limit Removing] - Artist for titlepic/M-Doom etc needed

[VanaheimRanger]

4 hours ago, dobu gabu maru said:

New Unholy Cathedral

Yes, this pleases me.

[DJVCardMaster]

I have a beta layout for Refinery(NO MONSTERS), still, it lacks detail, some of the areas are weird in my opinion, and I think the map could be extended.
To be honest, it feels uninspired at some areas, so I would like to know if anything could be added. I'm really out of ideas for the moment.

Also I noticed my name is wrong in the main post, is "DJV", not "DVJ"
I'd like to just be credited as "DJV", anyways.

In a few days I'll tweak it acording to your feedback and I would obviously add monsters. For now it is all I have

[dobu gabu maru]

Looking sharp DJV! I think you have the atmosphere and look of a refinery down pat, and the map feels distinct enough layout-wise from E1M2's "Toxin Refinery" (though they are both refining nukage).

 

One of the things I have to forewarn about is that the map for the most part is connected via room to room to room. Making a map by room is fine—I do that!—but you want to be thinking about how the player engages with the enemies and where you can get the most out of Doom 1's limited bestiary. For instance, a lot of rooms are connected simply by doors, which greatly encourages door camping against hitscanners, which in turn greatly slows Doom's gameplay to a crawl. I'd heartily recommended knocking down a whole bunch of doors in this map, and converting them to archways instead. You can mark the lines of the archway as "block sound" if you wanna prevent the enemies inside from getting woken up by all the gunfire.

 

I'm also pretty big on making the map as open as possible, unless you have specific encounters in mind. For instance, your northern-most BK door doesn't really need to require a BK, and it'll offer the player another pathway through the facility. Likewise, you could make the impassible vine lines that guard the RL passable instead, as it's quite easy for the player to loop around and grab the RL anyway (and the trap really doesn't keep the player locked in the room). Here's some suggestions:

 

 

Remove all the doors with red Xs and turn them into archways instead. Move the player start to where the green arrow is, just so they can see that there's a path to the right they can follow. Make the YK door the exit door so the player knows "once I have YK, I can exit". Put a radsuit somewhere in the RAD room. Always look for cubbies and pillars to put hitscanners on, to make the combat exciting. And try not to put monsters in places where they provide no threat (unless that's your intention). For instance, the loooong hallway at the top right? Almost no monster can be dangerous in there unless you have them pop out of a monster closet when you're in the middle of the hallway or something (and even then, a smart player will duck into another room to contain the threat).

 

Good luck with monster and thing placement!

 

(Oh, and you need to mark the platform in the nukage tunnel at the bottom right as un-damaging)

[DJVCardMaster]

1 hour ago, dobu gabu maru said:

Looking sharp DJV! I think you have the atmosphere and look of a refinery down pat, and the map feels distinct enough layout-wise from E1M2's "Toxin Refinery" (though they are both refining nukage).

 

One of the things I have to forewarn about is that the map for the most part is connected via room to room to room. Making a map by room is fine—I do that!—but you want to be thinking about how the player engages with the enemies and where you can get the most out of Doom 1's limited bestiary. For instance, a lot of rooms are connected simply by doors, which greatly encourages door camping against hitscanners, which in turn greatly slows Doom's gameplay to a crawl. I'd heartily recommended knocking down a whole bunch of doors in this map, and converting them to archways instead. You can mark the lines of the archway as "block sound" if you wanna prevent the enemies inside from getting woken up by all the gunfire.

 

I'm also pretty big on making the map as open as possible, unless you have specific encounters in mind. For instance, your northern-most BK door doesn't really need to require a BK, and it'll offer the player another pathway through the facility. Likewise, you could make the impassible vine lines that guard the RL passable instead, as it's quite easy for the player to loop around and grab the RL anyway (and the trap really doesn't keep the player locked in the room). Here's some suggestions:

 

 

Remove all the doors with red Xs and turn them into archways instead. Move the player start to where the green arrow is, just so they can see that there's a path to the right they can follow. Make the YK door the exit door so the player knows "once I have YK, I can exit". Put a radsuit somewhere in the RAD room. Always look for cubbies and pillars to put hitscanners on, to make the combat exciting. And try not to put monsters in places where they provide no threat (unless that's your intention). For instance, the loooong hallway at the top right? Almost no monster can be dangerous in there unless you have them pop out of a monster closet when you're in the middle of the hallway or something (and even then, a smart player will duck into another room to contain the threat).

 

Good luck with monster and thing placement!

 

(Oh, and you need to mark the platform in the nukage tunnel at the bottom right as un-damaging)

Thanks for the feedback, I really like those changes you are pointing me out.
This is probably my first time doing a UDoom layout, and I have a really bad habit of making room-by-room progress, I see it really hurts UDoom gameplay as I'm placing some monsters in the original layout.
I'll try to fix everything, aswell as adding an aditional room at the Blue Key tunnel that connects with a window to the starting area, since I came with ideas for that.

[dobu gabu maru]

Also just a heads up that the dark hallway & room that houses the YK might be fairly boring (though I like how it looks) and entirely too easy to run through. Hiding switches in the halls that raise the steps to the YK might be a way to mitigate how dull it might be, though there is nothing to stop the player from zooming all the way to the exit once they have the YK.

 

And yeah, the UDoom bestiary is so much more sedate than Doom 2. Most of the new Doom 2 enemies can be threatening in groups of 3, whereas the only dangerous UDoom enemy is the sergeant (as well as the mastermind but she can't fit anywhere). You really gotta focus on thing placement and using sergeants to hit you at nasty angles if you want a level to pressure the player.

Edited February 16, 2019 by dobu gabu maru

[DJVCardMaster]

2 minutes ago, dobu gabu maru said:

Also just a heads up that the dark hallway & room that houses the YK might be fairly boring (though I like how it looks) and entirely too easy to run through. Hiding switches in the halls that raise the steps to the YK might be a way to mitigate how dull it might be, though there is nothing to stop the player from zooming all the way to the exit once they have the YK.

I already fixed it with the mentioned room, I made a quirky decision by adding this room with some kind of "pump" or container, with a switch in front. The YK area is blocked by a nukage leak, by pressing the switch in the container room, you'll "fix" the leak (nukage floor lowers to lowest floor) leaving you access to the YK area. It's weird, but I liked it.

 

The new room is marked here:

[DJVCardMaster]

Finished map Version 1

There is still room for improvement, placements may be not final, also, it could have a little bit more detail at some areas.
now the map is a big ring in which you can circle freely without any keys. (This could also be really good for DeathMatch)

There is difficulty balance, multiplayer enemies and objects and DM Spawns.

 

[cannonball]

Cool, well I will play this properly tomorrow. Initial thoughts I think this do with being a little less flat with the play space and also a little more creativity in connecting the rooms up to allow more angles for the player and monsters to move around in. The good news is I think this fits the map title perfectly fine but I will comment on the game play when I give it a proper test drive.

[Aquila Chrysaetos]

Some screenshots so you can see what I've gotten done on Computer Station so far.

 

 

 

 

[dobu gabu maru]

Since I'm on a pretty good mapping streak, I think I'm gonna claim E4M3 and make a short chainsaw-oriented map. I made this layout a little while ago and I wanna see if I can do anything fun with it.

 

 

Now we just need someone to snatch up E4M7 and we'll be one step closer to wrapping this bad boy up!

[galileo31dos01]

2 hours ago, dobu gabu maru said:

a short chainsaw-oriented map

 

informal request (?): please chainsaw vs. baron(s) 

[cannonball]

Quick update - E4M7 is open to any takers, personally I think this map is probably one of the easier to take a stab at in terms of the map name.

 

So E2M3 - Yeah this needs some work in able to make this flow better, more doors could be removed and some rooms could be stitched to others with a bit of creativity. General health and ammo balance seems okay and the visuals suit the E2 theme so no issues there. All I can say is take the initial design you have and slowly work with it over a longer period of time.

 

@Aquila Chrysaetos those shots look pretty darn good. I am very glad to see some real movement on this project now.

Edited February 17, 2019 by cannonball

[dobu gabu maru]

42 minutes ago, cannonball said:

Quick update - E4M7 is open to any takers, personally I think this map is probably one of the easier to take a stab at in terms of the map name.

 

Just as a quick heads up—for whoever works on E4M7, make sure you play a bit of E4M8 to make sure the two maps won't be too similar. My map has a lot of running from enemies and corralling them into particular spots, and I don't think a lot of people want to play two "flee from enemies" maps in a row.

 

I'll try and get around to E2M3 soonish

[cannonball]

Regarding E4M7, I have an idea for it (Well one which would fit the name), but I will keep the slot open during this week as I already have three maps in this project, so another face would be good.

Edited February 17, 2019 by cannonball

[dobu gabu maru]

E3M5 is finished. For this map I'd actually like to be credited as the co-creator, as I think I've done enough adjustments to it that it's half Corsair, half dobu at this point.

 

E4M3 is next on the docket!

 

Just now, cannonball said:

Regarding E4M7, I have an idea for it, but I will keep the slot open during this week as I already have three maps in this project, so another face would be good.

I wouldn't say no to another cannonball map :)

Edited February 17, 2019 by dobu gabu maru

[cannonball]

It might just be me, but sector 37 (The big red key door) does not open in complevel 3. I wonder whether running that action linedef diagonally through the door is causing problems here. Considering you can only reach the area beyond the door from one direction, I think this would be a quick fix.

 

Otherwise this is really neat, it certainly uses a lot of Corsair's old ideas but now the execution is there for the atmosphere and combat.

[Jaws In Space]

3 minutes ago, cannonball said:

It might just be me, but sector 37 (The big red key door) does not open in complevel 3. I wonder whether running that action linedef diagonally through the door is causing problems here. Considering you can only reach the area beyond the door from one direction, I think this would be a quick fix.

 

Doors open to the lowest adjacent sector ceiling, in this case the linedef inside of the door causes the door itself to be the lowest adjacent ceiling, which will cause the door to not open.

[_bruce_]

Thanks for pm'ing me Jaws.

I'll see what I can come up with.

 

[DJVCardMaster]

5 hours ago, cannonball said:

Quick update - E4M7 is open to any takers, personally I think this map is probably one of the easier to take a stab at in terms of the map name.

 

So E2M3 - Yeah this needs some work in able to make this flow better, more doors could be removed and some rooms could be stitched to others with a bit of creativity. General health and ammo balance seems okay and the visuals suit the E2 theme so no issues there. All I can say is take the initial design you have and slowly work with it over a longer period of time.

  

@Aquila Chrysaetos those shots look pretty darn good. I am very glad to see some real movement on this project now.

Well I would certainly need help on that, I'm a little bit out of ideas to improve this map, my only idea is just conecting the eastern sewer with the RL room so you have another escape route, rendering the Demon trap a little bit useless.

[Scotty]

Decided to take a quick play of e2m3. Here are my thoughts.

 

 

The network of corridors running through the map is the main problem really, as it creates numerous situations of just standing there shooting stuff in front of you. Combining the areas bound by the orange border here to create one larger room would, imo provide a good central area for the map as well as giving some variance in playing area sizes. It would also create possibilities for ledges and such in the playing space which would add a little (desperately needed) verticality to proceedings.

 

Gameplay wise this map was a lot of shotgun plinking... more rockets or fewer cacos/barons (which generally aren't that threatening in low numbers anyway) please. There is also a general lack of armour and health - combined with a lot of hitscan this only serves to force conservative and slow play. The rocket launcher trap was good because it wasn't just pre-placed enemies already in the room. I was happy to see a berzerk pack in the map - every ultimate doom map should have one.

 

Bug note, if you go to the yellow key door before opening it, there is a hom to be found (at least in software mode).

[Jaws In Space]

2 hours ago, DJVCardMaster said:

Well I would certainly need help on that, I'm a little bit out of ideas to improve this map, my only idea is just conecting the eastern sewer with the RL room so you have another escape route, rendering the Demon trap a little bit useless.

 

Mind if I tinker with the map a bit? I've got a few ideas.

[DJVCardMaster]

Thanks for the feedback, strange, I don't see any HOMs in the map, can you point it out for me @Scotty?

 

4 minutes ago, Jaws In Space said:

 

Mind if I tinker with the map a bit? I've got a few ideas.

Sure, give it a go, I'll work on fixing some things in parallel though.

[Scotty]

3 minutes ago, DJVCardMaster said:

Thanks for the feedback, strange, I don't see any HOMs in the map, can you point it out for me @Scotty?

 

Here (taken with pboom+ 2.5.1.5).

 

[DJVCardMaster]

4 minutes ago, Scotty said:

 

Here (taken with pboom+ 2.5.1.5).

 

This is weird, did you press the switch in the container room before? It didn't happen to me on PrBoom software

[Scotty]

No i happened to go there before pressing the switch. But on inspection it is because SFALL1 is the texture there and i ran the map without the extra liquid textures available for this project, so it's no biggie.

[dobu gabu maru]

5 hours ago, Jaws In Space said:

Doors open to the lowest adjacent sector ceiling, in this case the linedef inside of the door causes the door itself to be the lowest adjacent ceiling, which will cause the door to not open.

Oh interesting—I always thought making sure the sectors were joined fixed that, but I guess I learned something. I've updated the map.

 

I played your map @DJVCardMaster. It's pretty good! Like CB said, you nailed the atmosphere for the map, but the gameplay can feel a bit rough at points. I think it's pretty good for your first attempt at an Ultimate Doom map, but there's a couple of hitches:

 

- Too much mid-tier clutter. The exit room is a good example of this problem: you have 2 barons, 2 cacodemons, 3 demons all in a rectangular room, and none of them can actually leave. This pushes the player to camp in that tiny stairwell until the hitscanners are dead, and then since you only provide shotgun shells, the player's left to slowly whittle down their health. Speaking of...

 

- Waaaay too many shells. I ran out of ammo for every other weapon but found myself tripping over entire boxes of shells. This combined with the mid-tier enemies is what always slows down Ultimate Doom to a crawl, and the greatest breath of fresh air that you can provide the map is by sprinkling rockets around whenever you find yourself at 50 shells while playtesting.

 

- Another chaingun needs to be provided elsewhere, and I'd suggest offering the armor to the player earlier (as most of the enemies will be dead by the time the player travels through the BK nukage halls)

 

- The radsuit in the northern section of the base is entirely useless unless the player can traverse the BK nukage halls from its end. That's a good place to put a green armor IMO (or better yet, let the player traverse the nukage hall from its end!)

 

- The caco closet at the BK should really open at both ends. Also, no one is gonna wanna fight 4 cacos without heavy armaments.

 

- Which reminds me: the YK trap is completely toothless. Well, it is actually dangerous, but few that play the map will stay and fight the enemies—most will flee.

 

- More enemies should probably be using windows to their advantage. For instance, at the start, you have a window into the YK SFALL lowering room, but no enemy can shoot you from there.

 

Honestly, removing 2-3 boxes of shotgun shells and instead plopping 30 rockets into the map goes a long way into clearing up its congestion, though the flow through the map could be a bit better as well (still too many doors!) I definitely feel that the map isn't too far from being in a place it needs to be

[Quantum Dranger]

I'll work on cleaning up E3M8 over the week. It's good to know this is still active.

[dobu gabu maru]

2 hours ago, Quantum Dranger said:

I'll work on cleaning up E3M8 over the week. It's good to know this is still active.

 

Just a couple of things off the top of my head:

 

I like the idea of an E3M8 that lets you dictate the battle according to your whims. The problem is that the left path and the right path don't feel symmetrical, so to speak. The left path is too congested and the right path doesn't feel full enough. I like the idea of summoning a cyber to help focus down the SMM, but I feel like it has to be used wisely. Also you need to make sure your map is maxable without making the SMM too easy of a target to bring down, which can be tricky.

 

I would appreciate more than anything to help you out with this map, as it has a load of potential, and I feel it can go in the wrong direction easily.

Edited February 18, 2019 by dobu gabu maru

[Jaws In Space]

17 hours ago, DJVCardMaster said:

Sure, give it a go, I'll work on fixing some things in parallel though.

Well there's no sense in having two people work on a map at the same time. It's better if you keep fixing things yourself if you can, I just offered help as you said you were out of ideas.

[DJVCardMaster]

3 hours ago, Jaws In Space said:

Well there's no sense in having two people work on a map at the same time. It's better if you keep fixing things yourself if you can, I just offered help as you said you were out of ideas.

Oh, ok then, in that case, I could just adjust some things according to feedback (mostly placements) and when I post the update, then you can try tweaking some things and see if it gets any better, no problem on that.