Ultimate Doom “In Name Only” - [Limit Removing] - Artist for titlepic/M-Doom etc needed

[mouldy]

cannonball said:

Here is a first draft of "They will repent"

http://www.mediafire.com/download/kmf4cbfkfr33rkw/E4M5cb.wad

Repentance is to regret for past wrongs and commitment to change.

haha wow thats a map. Here's a FDA
http://www.mediafire.com/download/5nk53q002k49c93/udinoe4m5-mouldy.lmp

Seems like I hit upon the intended tactic from the start. Took maybe 5 attempts but I made it in the end. Very clever!

[Pedro VC]

Halls of the Damned

It was supposed to be an underground location that contains a lot of halls and was obviously built by demons.
Also, one of the rooms contains a noticeably drawseg overflow that I did not want to fix because of the possible migration of the project to limit-removing format. I'll change it if this end up not happening.

[mouldy]

Here is a map for E2M5: command centre. Its a techbasey type of thing, arranged in a circle around a central command centre in the centre, commanding in a central kind of way.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/gkc278h0mhkrrq7/udino-e2m5-apr4.zip

I've tested it in choc doom, should hopefully be within the limits. Its fairly ugly, but lots of monsters to redecorate the scenery with their corpses. No difficulty settings yet. A large amount of the map is technically optional, but its worth getting tooled up for the final battle.

[tourniquet]

Hey mouldy, cool and also quite tricky map, hitscanners sure provide a lot of pressure in here especially in combination with being almost constantly surrounded and tele ambushed by other things. Also some cool traps like the BK/PG ones. The map sure kept me on my toes but in a very enjoyable way. Final fight is kind of a clusterfuck, which is imo not a bad thing since they can be fun at times, i just wonder how far it'd be mangeable without the PG, i guess i might give that a try.
Great map, difficult and fun. Ammo was a bit scarce at times, perhaps adding a chainsaw to mow down a few pinkies might be a good addition.

FDA with a inept death during my hunt for secrets, after i had allready cleared the rest of the map

Gonna give 'Halls of the Damned' a try next

[mouldy]

Pedro VC said:

Halls of the Damned

Nice map, here's an FDA:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/6x9vowcnmlefe9q/e2m6-mouldy.lmp

Really nice visuals and fun to explore. I saved a few times but the only thing that killed me was the crushers and bfg trap, after which I decided it wasn't worth it. The everlasting lift at the end made me laugh.

Really feeling that bumpy floor in prboom+, and some of the detailing can be a bit awkward to navigate, nothing major though. Some people might complain about how dark some areas are. I didn't have a problem so much in prboom, but it is pretty damn gloomy in those caves. I'd be tempted to bump the brightness of the whole map up one notch, but thats just my taste. I saw some textures moving next to the crushers that need lower unpegging. Fun map on the whole, can't say it doesn't have halls either.

tourniquet said:

FDA with a inept death during my hunt for secrets, after i had allready cleared the rest of the map

Cheers mate, I shall watch that with a cup of tea. Good call about the chainsaw, most of the ammo is from dead monsters I think, so you can end up a bit dry if you use it all on the imps and demons. I was wondering about the final fight, its a bit of a shitstorm. Its possible to get there without any big guns, and you'll probably be totally fucked. The idea was to reward players who explore the map more, but I could also add a couple more keys to force that maybe.

[cannonball]

I liked both maps, just a note to mouldy, we need a secret exit for E2M5, I'm sure you could insert one into one of the longer secrets or even in a new location.
Both maps seem to fit their slot too. But I will give more in depth details later.

[mouldy]

cannonball said:

I liked both maps, just a note to mouldy, we need a secret exit for E2M5, I'm sure you could insert one into one of the longer secrets or even in a new location.

Oh cool, I forgot about that. Can fit that into one of the existing secrets no problem.

[tourniquet]

FDA for Pedro VC's E2M6.

Gorgeous map with multiple paths and a lot of hallways and rooms to explore, i like this a lot and yeah it sure fit's the name.
Some of the tele ambushes were a bit too easy to outrun for my taste, but i liked the one after grabbing the RK and the Baron/Imp trap near the YK was also nice.
I found tons of rockets but no RL, i assume it's hidden in one of the secrets but unfortunately i found not even one hence i'd recommend to place a additional non secret RL somewhere.

Somethings wrong with the BFG pedestal, looked kinda glitchy in both PR/GLboom and the barons are not able to see nor attack you whilst standing on it, some broken nodes perhaps.

Alltogether another fun map.

[cannonball]

E2M6
I think your general map design fits well with the level here, I like the dark moodiness created here. It certainly fits the map at least.
There are issues with the BFG area, the unpegged walls where the crushers are, also the crusher section is a little too cruel for my liking and rather hard to get right without dying.
Also I would like a non-secret rocket launcher, perhaps you could replace the rocket launcher secret with an ammo stash or another power up. Also some of the fights were a little on the easy side for me (even when using the shotgun and chaingun only as there is plenty of room).
Otherwise I think this one is a keeper.

I will replay E2M5 tomorrow and give a full report.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

Spawning Vats:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/4evn0ginhco1zeh/SpawningVatsGRB.wad

Protip:

Don't Die

[tourniquet]

^ Protip: don't use action 186 in Vanilla or LR :p
FDA failed, the map isn't completable in CL2/3, action 186 is boom exclusive.

Interesting map, kinda notional with lot's of hell/tech stuff mixed together and all sorts of abstractions of shape. Think it fit's really well thematically. I'd recommend to work a bit more with the 'Monsters rise out of slime pit's and containers' gimmick instead of teleport ambushes to underline 'Spawning Vats'. There are a lot of containers and other gooey things scattered around the map so it shouldn't be much of a problem to add that

[General Rainbow Bacon]

What's action 186? I don't know them all by number.

[tourniquet]

Ceiling raise to highest ceiling

[General Rainbow Bacon]

^nevermind.

I don't think I can rework that puzzle that's centered around that line action.

I'd have to remake almost half the map.

I like the boom lines because they allow for more interesting maps.

I always see the same stupid lines being used all the time. Let's make this project boom compatible and force a few new things: You must use some ceiling line actions and some of the other more interesting ones.

[Jaws In Space]

Well I didn't die.

I was not a fan f the whole process to get the yellow key, it took me a good 15 minutes just to get it & in the end I have no idea what I did to get it. I just kept on running around the map hitting switches & eventually I did something right I guess, also the fact that some passages get blocked off made it even more of a pain because now I had to look for new ways to move around the map.

Other than that the map is fine, lots of vats of slime when monsters show up so it seems to fit the name.

[tourniquet]

why? no....wait i'll link a screenshot of all broken linedefs

[General Rainbow Bacon]

Yes Jaws, I like puzzles. And it is the m7 slot, so though it can't be one of the hardest maps in the wad because I'm limited by monsters *no cybers or spiders*, I made hard puzzles for it.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

Since this is now going to be LR compat, let's just make it boom compatible so that all the cool line actions can be used too. Let's be honest, most of us use boom for LR anyway right?

[Jaws In Space]

General Rainbow Bacon said:

Since this is now going to be LR compat, let's just make it boom compatible so that all the cool line actions can be used too. Let's be honest, most of us use boom for LR anyway right?

No

[tourniquet]

LR is CL2, means boom exclusive actions still won't work.

Anyways i marked the 6 switches that refuse to work

Spoiler

Unfortunately there is no similar action available in this compat, the only way to add raising ceilings activated by a switch would be a door action, this would still requires a few sector(dummy) workarounds to perform as intended.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

Okay, fine, so Jaws: guess what? Since you've borked my puzzle, you get to be the one to help me figure out how to remake it.

E: Or I could just remake that whole section and make a super hard fight instead. Of course, I will make sure it's almost impossible since you're all making me do this.

E2: Also, I won't be able to do the "rising out of slime" thing either since that's a boom line too.

[cannonball]

Really don't want to put any more concessions into this. CL2 should be fine to me, my experience is there is always a workaround which can be done.
Using door triggers with dummy sectors would work as tourniquet said.

Moving on, there are a few problematic areas where there are untextured areas giving a hom (walls around sector 323 after it lowers)

[tourniquet]

General Rainbow Bacon said:

E2: Also, I won't be able to do the "rising out of slime" thing either since that's a boom line too.

Nah, just do something like this works without anything boom related.

[mouldy]

General Rainbow Bacon said:

Spawning Vats:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/4evn0ginhco1zeh/SpawningVatsGRB.wad

Gonna have to say I didn't like this one. It certainly has vats and spawning enemies, so I give it points for that, but the design is kind of random with ugly angles everywhere, and the layout and navigation is meandering and confusing. On top of that I ended up falling into a pit of HOMs (sector 323 tagged 17 lowers to lowest floor, and none of the surrounding linedefs have textures). Speaking of HOMs, did you test this in chocorenderlimits? I had a brief look with the doombuilder plugin and it looks like one room might break the drawsegs limit where you have a lot of circular vats. Maybe you were making this with limit-removing in mind, but to be honest if this were a limit removing project this map would need quite a visual overhaul I think, its kind of joe-ilya in places with all the random angles and clashing textures. Sorry i couldn't be more positive.

On the subject of vanilla trigger actions, if you need a "ceiling to highest ceiling" one then you could use action 40, its a walkover line rather than a switch. For monsters rising out of the goo there are a bunch of fast raising floor actions that should do the trick.

tourniquet said:

LR is CL2, means boom exclusive actions still won't work.

I think its CL3 for ultimate doom, CL2 is for doom 2. But yeah, still no boom stuff

[General Rainbow Bacon]

Well, thanks for your input. But as I said before, I was going for more of a puzzle oriented map since I can't shovel in Cyberdemons or any of the Doom 2 monsters. Also, the clashing textures thing: E2 is about how Hell is corrupting a moon base, to accurately show this in a map would not be to make it "make sense" and have everything even and orderly.

I think I might have mistagged sector 323, I don't remember wanting a big pit to open up somewhere so that might be why you see HOM's there anyway.

I'll try to fix some of the angles, but this is my vision of E2, if you don't like it, We'll just agree to disagree.

E: Your maps tend to look very crafted and neat, but I was going for what a map would look like if you left Hell to its own devices to corrupt a base.

[mouldy]

General Rainbow Bacon said:

Also, the clashing textures thing: E2 is about how Hell is corrupting a moon base, to accurately show this in a map would not be to make it "make sense" and have everything even and orderly.

I was going for what a map would look like if you left Hell to its own devices to corrupt a base.

I get what you are saying, but it seems like a bit of an excuse to not make the effort to me, like "hell would be bad at design, so I designed it badly on purpose". Things can still make visual sense even if they are distorted and corrupted, in fact they need to all the more, because it doesn't take much in a game like this to lose the sense that its a real place, and things like walls with acutely angled corners and materials that dont match on diffferent sides of the same object tend to break the immersion.

[Super Mighty G]

I played the map and I would describe it as a chaotic mess of themes. There are way too many differing themes throughout the level that makes it feel like every texture possible is trying to be crammed in. Like mouldy said even if it's a corrupted base it still has to make some coherent sense. Maybe if there were less varying textures it would feel less chaotic.

I also think it's too big but that's more of my personal taste.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

Okay, what would you like to see me do to make this map more coherent. I definitely can do it, just give me some instruction.

[cannonball]

E2M5: Command Centre - Mouldy
I missed a few kills as the monsters simply did not teleport in, so this might need addressing.
The use of a mid-textures to wrap round one of the walls also looks a little iffy, though others might disagree with this.
In the final room, I think delaying the revealing of the exit and also the switch to escape the room would be a good idea perhaps as it came a little too soon for my liking.
Other than that, I liked this map a lot. The gameplay was pretty chaotic, but not too difficult.

One thing extra to say about E2M6 is simply that I will miss sinister my favourite UDoom track, it is also worth noting that for a few of the levels, you need to realise that the music must also fit the corresponding level in E4.

E3M5 - Unholy Cathedral by Corsair
I preferred the original opening, this is what I mean.


As for the map itself, I like that you tried to create a real sense of epic scale, but it doesn't really work on a gameplay sense, it might work by trying to ambush the player after opening the red door instead of picking up the key and teleport some monsters behind the player at the red door. Otherwise I can't think of anything instead of scaling the map down. The plasma gun and rocket launcher rooms don't do much for me either. The final fight is too easy as the barons can be too easy to coax into the middle and kill them with little stress.

[mouldy]

cannonball said:

E2M5: Command Centre - Mouldy
I missed a few kills as the monsters simply did not teleport in, so this might need addressing.
The use of a mid-textures to wrap round one of the walls also looks a little iffy, though others might disagree with this.
In the final room, I think delaying the revealing of the exit and also the switch to escape the room would be a good idea perhaps as it came a little too soon for my liking.

Cool cheers for the feedback man. I don't suppose you know which monsters didn't teleport in? I don't get that problem when I test it, unless its something I fixed since the version I uploaded.

I'll change that midtexture to look like this

blends in a bit better that way.

Delaying the exit reveal I can do, I don't want to delay it too long because I wanted the soulsphere to be of possible use in the fight, but I'll play around with that.